Guest guest Posted February 22, 2001 Report Share Posted February 22, 2001 Dear Prabhus: Pamho. AgtSP. These comments were posted by Jayo dasa to the Pamho conference "Holistic Health (and related topics)". Would anyone care to respond to this? ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Text PAMHO:4022468 (17 lines) Jayo (das) ACBSP (Oklahoma City, OK - USA) 21-Feb-01 18:13 -0500 WWW: Mahananda (Dasa) ACBSP (Alachua FL - USA) <Mahananda1 (AT) aol (DOT) com> (sent: 21-Feb-01 18:19 -0500) bubbeteri (AT) adelpia (DOT) net (sent: 21-Feb-01 18:19 -0500) inozek (AT) adelphia (DOT) net (sent: 21-Feb-01 18:19 -0500) Holistic Health (and related topics) [2619] Reference: Text PAMHO:4019608 by Ugresa (das) (Cintamani Intl, Graz - A) Re: Milk... Krsna's Miracle Gift To Mankind --------------------------- Ugresa prabhu, dandavats Jaya Prabhupada <Another faktor is, that if the cowes would be protected, there would be considerable less milk available which would mean, that milk would cost about then times more then it costs now. I wounder if devotees would then consume as much milkprodukts as now.> Organic and Biodynamic diries in the USA are following a number pf good practices including some provisions of cow protection, like not using claves for meat. They typically charge about 50% more. The price would come done if more people supported them. Than real protection could increase, not the illusory go-pasya of ISKCON in the West. yfs, Jayo das PS Mahananda You gave a good answer for devotees, but it was not meant for them. (Text PAMHO:4022468) ------ ------- End of Forwarded Message ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2001 Report Share Posted February 22, 2001 I did as follows. > > > Organic and Biodynamic diries in the USA are following a number pf > good practices including some provisions of cow protection, like not using > claves for meat. They typically charge about 50% more. The price would > come done if more people supported them. Than real protection could > increase, not the illusory go-pasya of ISKCON in the West. > > yfs, > Jayo das > PS Mahananda You gave a good answer for devotees, but it was not meant for > them. Actual cow protection, where both the milking cow and her calf were allowed to liveout their natural lives in a reasonable manner would make milk cost 4 to 5 times more than market price of milk. Incidentally, ISKCON in India is no paragon of cow protection either. If anything worse than ISKCON west. "Taraka (das) ACBSP (Gita Nagari, PA - USA)" wrote: > Dear Prabhus: > Pamho. AgtSP. > > These comments were posted by Jayo dasa to the Pamho conference "Holistic > Health (and related topics)". Would anyone care to respond to this? > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Text PAMHO:4022468 (17 lines) > Jayo (das) ACBSP (Oklahoma City, OK - USA) > 21-Feb-01 18:13 -0500 > WWW: Mahananda (Dasa) ACBSP (Alachua FL - USA) > <Mahananda1 (AT) aol (DOT) com> (sent: 21-Feb-01 18:19 -0500) > bubbeteri (AT) adelpia (DOT) net (sent: 21-Feb-01 18:19 -0500) > inozek (AT) adelphia (DOT) net (sent: 21-Feb-01 18:19 -0500) > Holistic Health (and related topics) [2619] > Reference: Text PAMHO:4019608 by Ugresa (das) (Cintamani Intl, Graz - A) > Re: Milk... Krsna's Miracle Gift To Mankind > --------------------------- > Ugresa prabhu, dandavats Jaya Prabhupada > > <Another faktor is, that if the cowes would be protected, there would be > considerable less milk available which would mean, that milk would cost > about then times more then it costs now. I wounder if devotees would then > consume as much milkprodukts as now.> > > Organic and Biodynamic diries in the USA are following a number pf good > practices including some provisions of cow protection, like not using claves > for meat. They typically charge about 50% more. The price would come done > if more people supported them. Than real protection could increase, not the > illusory go-pasya of ISKCON in the West. > > yfs, > Jayo das > PS Mahananda You gave a good answer for devotees, but it was not meant for > them. > (Text PAMHO:4022468) ------ > > ------- End of Forwarded Message ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2001 Report Share Posted February 22, 2001 ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Text PAMHO:4022574 (2 lines) Bhanu Swami (Madras - IN) 21-Feb-01 20:33 -0500 WWW: Mahananda (Dasa) ACBSP (Alachua FL - USA) <Mahananda1 (AT) aol (DOT) com> (sent: 21-Feb-01 20:39 -0500) bubbeteri (AT) adelpia (DOT) net (sent: 21-Feb-01 20:39 -0500) inozek (AT) adelphia (DOT) net (sent: 21-Feb-01 20:39 -0500) Holistic Health (and related topics) [2620] Reference: Text PAMHO:4022468 by Jayo (das) ACBSP (Oklahoma City, OK - USA) Re: Milk... Krsna's Miracle Gift To Mankind --------------------------- i have just read that the commercial cows are fed chicken manure and remnants of dead dogs and cats. is this true. (Text PAMHO:4022574) ------ ------- End of Forwarded Message ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2001 Report Share Posted February 22, 2001 Please accepy my obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada. The circumstances you refer to may be true as they often add bone meal to dairy feed and to block salt. This bone meal is coming from the slaughter industry, which may use dogs and other animals that have been killed for varous different reasons. The bone meal is more likely to come from cows, horses and pigs. As for chicken manure it is not likely used as it is more profitable to use in fertilizers. ys, Rohita dasa - Taraka (das) ACBSP (Gita Nagari, PA - USA) <Taraka.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Thursday, February 22, 2001 7:01 AM Re: Milk... Krsna's Miracle Gift To Mankind > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Text PAMHO:4022574 (2 lines) > Bhanu Swami (Madras - IN) > 21-Feb-01 20:33 -0500 > WWW: Mahananda (Dasa) ACBSP (Alachua FL - USA) > <Mahananda1 (AT) aol (DOT) com> (sent: 21-Feb-01 20:39 -0500) > bubbeteri (AT) adelpia (DOT) net (sent: 21-Feb-01 20:39 -0500) > inozek (AT) adelphia (DOT) net (sent: 21-Feb-01 20:39 -0500) > Holistic Health (and related topics) [2620] > Reference: Text PAMHO:4022468 by Jayo (das) ACBSP (Oklahoma City, OK - USA) > Re: Milk... Krsna's Miracle Gift To Mankind > --------------------------- > i have just read that the commercial cows are fed chicken manure and > remnants of dead dogs and cats. is this true. > (Text PAMHO:4022574) ------ > > ------- End of Forwarded Message ------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2001 Report Share Posted February 22, 2001 "Taraka (das) ACBSP (Gita Nagari, PA - USA)" wrote: > Dear Prabhus: > Pamho. AgtSP. > > These comments were posted by Jayo dasa to the Pamho conference "Holistic > Health (and related topics)". Would anyone care to respond to this? > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Text PAMHO:4022468 (17 lines) > Jayo (das) ACBSP (Oklahoma City, OK - USA) > 21-Feb-01 18:13 -0500 > WWW: Mahananda (Dasa) ACBSP (Alachua FL - USA) > <Mahananda1 (AT) aol (DOT) com> (sent: 21-Feb-01 18:19 -0500) > bubbeteri (AT) adelpia (DOT) net (sent: 21-Feb-01 18:19 -0500) > inozek (AT) adelphia (DOT) net (sent: 21-Feb-01 18:19 -0500) > Holistic Health (and related topics) [2619] > Reference: Text PAMHO:4019608 by Ugresa (das) (Cintamani Intl, Graz - A) > Re: Milk... Krsna's Miracle Gift To Mankind > --------------------------- > Ugresa prabhu, dandavats Jaya Prabhupada > > <Another faktor is, that if the cowes would be protected, there would be > considerable less milk available which would mean, that milk would cost > about then times more then it costs now. I wounder if devotees would then > consume as much milkprodukts as now.> > > Organic and Biodynamic diries in the USA are following a number pf good > practices including some provisions of cow protection, like not using claves > for meat. They typically charge about 50% more. The price would come done > if more people supported them. Than real protection could increase, not the > illusory go-pasya of ISKCON in the West. > > yfs, > Jayo das > PS Mahananda You gave a good answer for devotees, but it was not meant for > them. > (Text PAMHO:4022468) ------ > > ------- End of Forwarded Message ------ Dear Jayo Prabhu, If these Organic and Biodynamic dairies are charging only 50% above normal market prices, and are assuring their customers of life-time protection for all calves, including bull calves, I can just about guarantee you that this is a scam. I'll be very interested to see if they will let a quarterly census of names, numbers and ages of animals on their farms be released to the public. It would be quite interesting if a group like PETA could investigate them and show how they are defrauding consumers by pretending to offer life-time protection for animals. If I was a bettin' man, I'd bet that nearly all the bulls produced at these farms will eventually find their way to the slaughterhouse -- but I took a vow against gambling on March 26, 1986, so I will refrain from that. your servant, Hare Krsna dasil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2001 Report Share Posted February 25, 2001 I find it strange that such enlightened people spend much of there time on this conference being re-active to present farming systems, including ISKCON's, instead of taking a pro-active stance and actively putting forward a farming system for the 21st century for all people - devotionally minded as well as karmically minded. I have put forward such a system, and mine, if followed properly would not be loss making leading to the destruction of the system, it would pull a profit, therebye insuring the survival and sustainablility of the system. Isn't it time we put our energies more into pro-active measures, and not this cancer of re-active critisicm when the examples we have to put forward are wholly cheeses. We need not critisise so much, just plan to take this farming system into this world. Mark. NB: The article below only talks about protection of calves. Therefore at 3 years old the animals can be killed as they're no longer calves - semantics, not real cow (or calf) protection. --- "Noma T. Petroff" <npetroff (AT) bowdoin (DOT) edu> wrote: > > > "Taraka (das) ACBSP (Gita Nagari, PA - USA)" wrote: > > > Dear Prabhus: > > Pamho. AgtSP. > > > > These comments were posted by Jayo dasa to the > Pamho conference "Holistic > > Health (and related topics)". Would anyone care to > respond to this? > > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > > > Text PAMHO:4022468 (17 lines) > > Jayo (das) ACBSP (Oklahoma City, OK - > USA) > > 21-Feb-01 18:13 -0500 > > WWW: Mahananda (Dasa) ACBSP (Alachua FL > - USA) > > <Mahananda1 (AT) aol (DOT) com> (sent: 21-Feb-01 18:19 > -0500) > > bubbeteri (AT) adelpia (DOT) net (sent: 21-Feb-01 > 18:19 -0500) > > inozek (AT) adelphia (DOT) net (sent: 21-Feb-01 > 18:19 -0500) > > Holistic Health (and related topics) > [2619] > > Reference: Text PAMHO:4019608 by Ugresa (das) > (Cintamani Intl, Graz - A) > > Re: Milk... Krsna's Miracle Gift To > Mankind > > > --------------------------- > > Ugresa prabhu, dandavats Jaya Prabhupada > > > > <Another faktor is, that if the cowes would be > protected, there would be > > considerable less milk available which would mean, > that milk would cost > > about then times more then it costs now. I wounder > if devotees would then > > consume as much milkprodukts as now.> > > > > Organic and Biodynamic diries in the USA are > following a number pf good > > practices including some provisions of cow > protection, like not using claves > > for meat. They typically charge about 50% more. > The price would come done > > if more people supported them. Than real > protection could increase, not the > > illusory go-pasya of ISKCON in the West. > > > > yfs, > > Jayo das > > PS Mahananda You gave a good answer for devotees, > but it was not meant for > > them. > > (Text PAMHO:4022468) > ------ > > > > ------- End of Forwarded Message ------ > > Dear Jayo Prabhu, > > If these Organic and Biodynamic dairies are charging > only 50% above normal > market prices, and are assuring their customers of > life-time protection for all > calves, including bull calves, I can just about > guarantee you that this is a > scam. I'll be very interested to see if they will > let a quarterly census of > names, numbers and ages of animals on their farms be > released to the public. > It > would be quite interesting if a group like PETA > could investigate them and show > how they are defrauding consumers by pretending to > offer life-time protection > for animals. If I was a bettin' man, I'd bet that > nearly all the bulls > produced > at these farms will eventually find their way to the > slaughterhouse -- but I > took a vow against gambling on March 26, 1986, so I > will refrain from that. > > your servant, > > Hare Krsna dasil > > Get email at your own domain with Mail. http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 > I have put forward such a system, and mine, if > followed properly would not be loss making leading to > the destruction of the system, it would pull a profit, > therebye insuring the survival and sustainablility of > the system. One of the main lessons we should learn from the present environmental crisis is that "profit" does not equate with "sustainability". IN fact, it is when profit becomes the primary purpose that sustainability usually suffers. I suggest you first read these two books, if you haven;t already (if you have I'ld like to know your opinion): THe unsettling of AMerica - Wendell Berry Small is Beautiful - E.F. Schumacher Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a truly sustainable system of cow protection that was also commercially viable in the modern economic system. It's just that there are so many things working against you. YOu really need to make sure you understand it all. One other thing, is that to develop your business plan, the main thing is the market research. Your project assumes there is a market willing to pay whatever the cost is for protection farm products. This is an untested assumption and experience with thedevotee community has not yet supported this assumption. Thus, it is natural for many to be sceptical. It seems that much more education on the basics of cow protection is needed in the devotee community, what to speak of the vegetarian community. Also, the 10% vegetarian community you refer to includes a very large number of health-based vegetarians who might not be such a good market if the price of your product is high. Are there any figures on the number of ethical vegetarians? HOw many of them are already vegan? Getting vegans to become protected farm milk consumers (at a large premium in price) might be a large uphill marketing challenge. Your servant, Pancaratna das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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