Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 >> Can anyone give me information on the process of extracting dye from plant >> material, and if it requires any stabilisation or anything. >Another very important point is to make full use of local people. As no one seems to be contributing much on this subject, other than that sage advice from Hare Krsna Dasi, I'll just add my very rudimentry experiences. We've only done some very simple vegetable dying here at Pundarik Dham. Mostly with cloth, but have also tried with Deity face painting (alpana), handmade paper, mud plaster, cane & mats, wood finishes, baskets, etc. DYEING Generally the process we've used (for cloth) is simply to boil the raw material with an equal amount of water (perhaps with a pinch of soda) for at least 30 minutes, strain it through a cloth and then add the cloth and boil while stirring gently, till the desired color is obtained, usually half an hour. For deeper colors the cloth may be dried and then dyed once or twice again. You'll need a plentiful supply of good, clean water, preferably running (like a stream). MORDANTING So far as stabilizing, fixing or mordanting is concerned, this is another art that can enhance or even alter the color according to what mordant agent is used and the properties of the raw dye material. We generally use alum (what indian barbers use after shaving), as it's a natural product. Some other common mordants are copper sulphate, potassium dichromate or ferrous sulphate.We dissolve 1 part alum in 20 parts hot water till dissolved, add the cloth and boil for half an hour, while gently stirring. Then the cloth can be dried in the sun or just well-squeezed and dyed. RAW MATERIALS Can be almost anything, use local traditional knowledge as Hare Krsna Dasi suggests or just your imagination, almost any plant or mineral source can be used. You can be mix the raw materials to get new color combinations or dye the cloth in one and then another color. This is only a very small list of some of the raw materials that we have used (more or less successfully) and that I think you just might find in Mauritius (or at Indian shops): LEAVES & PETALS: Marigold petals = Mustard color Mehendi (henna) leaves = Golden Dahlia petals = Peach gold Eucalyptus leaves = Deep gold/gray Sheuli (coral jasmine) petals = Yellow Elachi (cardamon) = Pink Champa (frangipani) = Light olive green Jhau (casuarina) leaves = Deep pink Krishnachura (golmohur) petals = Light green Cha (tea) leaves = Beige Lemongrass = Light green Tulsi leaves* = lime green *Here we just used dried ones that had fallen on the ground for Deity's cloth. SKIN & ROOTS: Haldi (tumeric) roots = Yellow/golden Piyaz (onion) skin/peel = Orange gold Dalim (pomegranate) rind = Khaki Manjit(madder) stems = rust/red BARK & SAWDUST: Arjun (?) bark = Mauve/pink Kanthal (jackfruit) sawdust = Yellow ochre/light yellow Babla (babul) bark = Beige Goran (?) bark = Salmon pink Sundari (mangrove) bark = Deep pink Shilkorai (rain tree) = Old gold Patabahar (croton) bark = Pink FRUITS & SEEDS: Latkan (annatto) seeds = Orange Gaab (wild mangosteen) fruit = Gray/pink Haritaki (myrobolan) fruit = Grey/gold Supari (betel nut) = Deep pink EXTRACTS: Neel (indigo) leaf extract = Deep blue (deep green) Khair (catechu) wood extract = Brown/maroon BLOCK PRINTING (for saris, namabolis, etc.) We've also experimented using wooden blocks (cut with designs) and a paste of the dye made with gum arabic (or tamarind seeds, etc.) for hand printing on plain or dyed cloth. There's also reverse printing, wax printing, tie-dyeing...., that we have not got into (yet). Besides being an art, if not taken too seriously, can be fun. Always keep notes of what you used, did and got (attach a cloth sample) so you can reproduce if wanted. ys, nistula dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 > You can be mix the raw materials to get new color combinations or > dye the cloth in one and then another color. This is only a very small list > of some of the raw materials that we have used (more or less successfully) I am curious. Since saffron seems to be the color of renunciation, I would assume that the dye used to get the color is easily available in nature. Do you happen to know what the traditional source for that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 1999 Report Share Posted July 23, 1999 In India and here, the Gaudiya Math and ISKCON 'traditional' brahmacaries (those not swayed by all the new chemical sources) generally use a mineral source locally called "garo mati", literally "red-earth". It's an ochre colored very soft clay. I don't know exactly where it comes from, but is readily available in shops that sell kaviraj supplies and such items. A small piece is just tied into a cloth (to prevent loose pieces leaving spots), dissolved into a bucket of water (hot is best) and then the cloth is just stirred around as usual till the depth of color desired is acheived. Quite simple - even for brahmacharies. It gives a very soothing saffron (salmon?) color, very different from the bright oranges and golds increasingly prevelent. Of course the mineral can also give you very deep ochre shades if wanted (more earth - longer time). Does this answer your question at all? >I am curious. Since saffron seems to be the color of renunciation, I would >assume that the dye used to get the color is easily available in nature. Do >you >happen to know what the traditional source for that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 1999 Report Share Posted July 23, 1999 Dear Nisula prabhu. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thanks for that extensive inforamtiom. It is really good of you to share it with us. I cant wait to get into it. By the way, you wouldnt happen to know where alum originates would you? Your Servant Samba das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 1999 Report Share Posted July 23, 1999 >Thanks for that extensive inforamtiom. It is really good of you to share it >with us. I cant wait to get into it. Well, at least I kept someone awake while 'boring' thru it all... It was a rather long reply as you wrote from that wonderful little island paradise (that I have such fond memories of) and was thinking about those of us who do not live in the west, have visa cards or access to amazon.com, et. al. and therefore those nice lists of wonderful 'how-to' books are wasted on us poor souls. >By the way, you wouldnt happen to know where alum originates would you? Sorry, not a clue...I suppose I could ask around - but being a patron member of Procrastinators Anonymous, please don't hold your breath. Can anyone help with this, perhaps with some url listing mineral sources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 1999 Report Share Posted July 23, 1999 > . It gives a very soothing > saffron (salmon?) color, very different from the bright oranges and golds > increasingly prevelent. Of course the mineral can also give you very deep > ochre shades if wanted (more earth - longer time). Does this answer your > question at all? > > >I am curious. Since saffron seems to be the color of renunciation, I would > >assume that the dye used to get the color is easily available in nature. Do > >you > >happen to know what the traditional source for that is? Answers it exactly. A mined mineral that is readily available in India. Brings up, is this mineral available in America. To implement VAD here, it seems we wouldn't want to have to be dependent on importing from India. So the next question is, how to get that color easily here, or, more radically, if the color is not easily available, what color would earth friendly renunciates in the US use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 1999 Report Share Posted July 23, 1999 On 23 Jul 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > . It gives a very soothing saffron (salmon?) color, very different from the bright oranges and golds increasingly prevelent. Of course the mineral can also give you very deep ochre shades if wanted (more earth - longer time). Does this answer your question at all? > > > > >I am curious. Since saffron seems to be the color of renunciation, I would assume that the dye used to get the color is easily available in nature. Do you happen to know what the traditional source for that is? > Answers it exactly. A mined mineral that is readily available in India. Brings up, is this mineral available in America. To implement VAD here, it seems we wouldn't want to have to be dependent on importing from India. So the next question is, how to get that color easily here, or, more radically, if the color is not easily available, what color would earth friendly renunciates in the US use? > Comment: We get a very nice ochre shade from using red clay from the local ponds. We use a different proceedure that involves wetting the cloth then rubbing handfulls of wet clay into the cloth. Then letting it dry on the beach (while we do a little bathing). When dry it is shaken and then rinsed a few times. This colour lasts about two months if you do not hang it in the direct sun. Our sun bleachs everything, most Brown Swiss here are a light gray not a dark brown. Animals from the north that have been brought here may come as dark brown but after a few years about 2/3 turn to the gray version (not a slate gray but an almost white). In the late 70's one devoteee working with mahogany, collected shavings and sawdust put in a piece of cloth tie the ends and lowered it in to a container of very hot water and dyed his cloth a dark ochre. This colour lasts a little longer. Both of the above are without using any mordant to fix the colours. ys, Rohita dasa Coastal Mississippi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 1999 Report Share Posted July 24, 1999 >To implement VAD here, it seems we wouldn't want to have to be dependent >on importing from India. So the next question is, how to get that color >easily here, or, more radically, if the color is not easily available, >what color would earth friendly renunciates in the US use? Rohita Prabhu's solutions sound great. Similarly, I prefer to avoid 'importing' the clay from India (even with it being relatively nearby), and have used some regional clays, wood shavings/sawdust and vegetable sources to get some hues that may not be the 'official' one, but at least a fair approximation and look OK. Sufficient to distinguish the brahmacharies from the householders. If these regional variations were practiced, we could learn to tell where visiting sanyasis and brahmacharies were from 'by the color of their cloth':-) ys, nistula dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 1999 Report Share Posted July 24, 1999 On 24 Jul 1999, Nistula das wrote: > >To implement VAD here, it seems we would not want to have to be dependent on importing from India. So the next question is, how to get that color easily here, or, more radically, if the color is not easily available, what color would earth friendly renunciates in the US use? > > Rohita Prabhu's solutions sound great. Similarly, I prefer to avoid 'importing' the clay from India (even with it being relatively nearby), and have used some regional clays, wood shavings/sawdust and vegetable sources to get some hues that may not be the 'official' one, but at least a fair approximation and look OK. Sufficient to distinguish the brahmacharies from the householders. If these regional variations were practiced, we could learn to tell where visiting sanyasis an brahmacharies were from 'by the color of their cloth':-) > > ys, nistula dasa > > I do not think that would be possible as from my example we had three basic colours of saffron at New Talavan. 1. The synthetic dhotis artificial saffron. 2. Clay dyed. 3. Wood dyed. Each of these was a different colour and varied according to how much attention was paid by the devotee dying, so there were different shades of those two of the three colours. No variation on the first one. Rather, Varna will designate colour; those working with wood would tend to use the colour from wood and so on. There would be no way that one could distinguish where you were living. That is unless those from different locations made an agreement to having a particular colour designated for their location, as the villagers in the Andes do with each village having a particular pattern on their cloth. Ys, Rohita dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 1999 Report Share Posted July 25, 1999 Rohita Prabhu wrote: >There would be no way that one could distinguish where you were living. >That is unless those from different locations made an agreement to having >a particular colour designated for their location, as the villagers in the >Andes do with each village having a particular pattern on their cloth. Yes, I kind of realized this, it was more or less a rather bad pun:-). On the Andes thread: In the hill tracts near here (that extend into Myanmar) there are 14 indigenous tribes, some of them would be very difficult to distinguish from the others if they didn't each have their traditional colored cloth dyed using easily available plant sources. Here, I don't believe there was any formal agreement, simply a tradition developed over many years. ys, nistula dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 1999 Report Share Posted July 25, 1999 That is unless those from different > locations made an agreement to having a particular colour designated for > their location, as the villagers in the Andes do with each village having > a particular pattern on their cloth. Interesting. The ancient Scots also had a different tartan pattern for many families or tribes. An educated Scotsman can tell your lineage by the tartan you wear. It is these kinds of things that make a tradition rich. Vaisnavism was for many thousands of years restricted to India. Now it has spread and is making roots in the west. Hundreds of years from now, the activities we develop towards varnasrama community (if we ever do) will become the fixed traditions of the world vaisnava order, with particular nuances in each location. Isn't that a wonderful thought! Varnasrama dhama ki Jai! YS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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