Guest guest Posted November 11, 1999 Report Share Posted November 11, 1999 Ideally, this discussion should not continue much further before Gopal Krishna Maharaja or one of the other GBCs for Saranagati visits the farm and files a farm report. This topic would come up in the farm report. Then the Ministry of Cow Protection and Agriculture can deal with it. This is exactly why GBC input and guidance is needed. The cowherds or residents dealing on their own may not have the resourcefulness to solve this situation -- or even the spiritual awareness that this is an extremely inauspicious situation. But this is where a conscientious GBC working in consultation with the Ministry of Cow Protection and Agriculture can think of another solution to the problem -- perhaps one which would even expand the preaching opportunities for the Saranagati community by getting more outside devotees to come and support their project. One possible problem that you have hinted at is that Saranagati is not technically an ISKCON farm. If a community is not governed by ISKCON laws, I think it is misleading to list it in Back to Godhead as an ISKCON farm community. Many nice devotees live in Prabhupada Village for example, but it is not listed in Back to Godhead. In any case the Vancouver-Western Canada GBC's should straighten this situation out with the Ministry of Agriculture -- as to whether Saranagati is indeed an ISKCON farm community and expected to follow ISKCON law 507 with regards to cow protection. As you indicate, Prabhu, it probably is not too appropriate for us to try to figure out this whole situation without additional input. My only point is that there was a problem in the past, and I hope it has been or will be appropriately addressed. your servant, Hare Krsna dasi8 "WWW: Lola (Devi Dasi) ACBSP (Vancouver - CAN)" wrote: > [Text 2771822 from COM] > > Dear Samba Prabhu > > "everyone of us should be ideal to the other so everyone can get the impetus > to make progress more and more" ....Srila Prabhupada (1965) > > Please accept my obeisances.All glories to Srla Prabhupada! > Did you read my posting of Nov 10 explaining how NO money was given, taken or > ever existed regarding taxes at Saranagati? I didn't put any of the text in > that post in bold type so as not to seem to be shouting at the members, but it > is a very important point. > > It was mentioned once that it would be ideal if qualified staff from the > Ministry of cow protection could visit all of the farms. I agree. I'm > uncomfortable with the issue being discussed at length without someone > qualified gathering all of the facts. It feels unfair, impersonal and > disrespectful . The Saranagati devotees do not have computers, or even > electricity and phone. They are not aware of these discussions and have no > way of directly representiing themselves on this conference. > > This issue first came to light 3 years ago . Has anyone written to them > inquiring as to all of the details and heard from them directly before passing > judgement and or including them in a list of cow abuse? I don't believe so. > If not, it doesn't seem right to me. It is unfortunate if faith in the > members who are championing the important cause of cow protection is > undermined by not according appropriate treatment to the devotees as well as > the cows. Please inquire fully before coming to conclusions. I thankyou > ahead of time for this consideration. > > your servant, > Lola devi dasi > > On 11 Nov 1999, Samba das wrote: > > > > Or, even the first one year's blood money could have been used to buy the > > > fencing and the problem would have been solved. Instead the money was used > > > for what? And for how many years? > > > > I was going to make the same point. How much does 5 miles of fencing cost. > > Surely $11,000 would cover it? > > > > YS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 1999 Report Share Posted November 11, 1999 > > > It was mentioned once that it would be ideal if qualified staff from the > Ministry of cow protection could visit all of the farms. I agree. I'm > uncomfortable with the issue being discussed at length without someone > qualified gathering all of the facts. That is the purpose of the quarterly inspections. The GBC should either go personally or send a monitor quarterly. Any concerned person reading this exchange who would volunteer to be the monitor for this project on behalf of the responsible GBC member? The monitor has to fill out a form, that is fairly straightforward, and should read and be familiar with the Cow Standards. The Standards were designed with an eye to the fact that it would be necessary for nonfarm devotees to be carrying out these inspections. In theory, it is all layed out, just sort of like painting by the numbers. Certainly some flaws will emerge as we begin to get feed back, but it is a seviceable system in theory, and useable by any reasonably sensible person with or without a farm background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 Dear - COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) > [Text 2772249 from COM] > > > > > > > It was mentioned once that it would be ideal if qualified staff from the > > Ministry of cow protection could visit all of the farms. I agree. I'm > > uncomfortable with the issue being discussed at length without someone > > qualified gathering all of the facts. > > That is the purpose of the quarterly inspections. The GBC should either go > personally or send a monitor quarterly. Any concerned person reading this > exchange who would volunteer to be the monitor for this project on behalf of > the > responsible GBC member? The monitor has to fill out a form, that is fairly > straightforward, and should read and be familiar with the Cow Standards. The > Standards were designed with an eye to the fact that it would be necessary for > nonfarm devotees to be carrying out these inspections. In theory, it is all > layed out, just sort of like painting by the numbers. > > Certainly some flaws will emerge as we begin to get feed back, but it is a > seviceable system in theory, and useable by any reasonably sensible person > with > or without a farm background. > I have written a request to Vkramuykha Swami wh ois suppose to be in Vancouver Feb. 15. to fulfill the GBC report Forms or have a Monitor do so. I explained that this rather important since the devotees want to know the truth. We shall see what Krsna arranges. We do not have any Lakshmi to send a representative to investigate as this Ministry is unfunded. Your servant, Balabhadra das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 > Dear Samba Prabhu > > "everyone of us should be ideal to the other so everyone can get the > impetus to make progress more and more" ....Srila Prabhupada (1965) > > Please accept my obeisances.All glories to Srla Prabhupada! > Did you read my posting of Nov 10 explaining how NO money was given, taken > or ever existed regarding taxes at Saranagati? Ooops, yes sorry I did see that text, but it was too late I had already posted my text. Actualy I regret posting that text now, who am I to judge or say anything about something I personaly know very little about. It seems odd that Saranagati has to be responsible to keep cows out, surely the owner has a responsibility to keep his cows in? But I merely wanted to second the suggestion that if there was money coming, why not use it to build the fence. Obviously... no money... no fence. I personaly am very inspired by many of the things I have heard about Saranagati, and Madana Mohan prabhu, is a good friend of mine. If you see him please pass on a hearty Haribol. Your servant Samba das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 The problem is this: The implication is being made here that if the Saranagati community does not recieve a $10,000 tax break for grazing cow to be sent to slaughter, then the community cannot exist. I find this implication very troubling. Does that mean that if the beef farmer's cows get infected with bruccelosis or mad cow disease and he decides to go out of the beef business entirely, that a Hare Krsna community has to close down. Wouldn't they find some other way of surviving? How does this look for their preaching: Our community survives because we receive an indirect subsidy from the cow slaughter industry. If this is the basis of the economic life of the community, I just have to say that it should not be acceptable for an official ISKCON community. I also believe that through the cooperative efforts of a spiritually qualified GBC and ISKCON's Minister of Cow Protection and Agriculture a more Krsna conscious means of livelihood than a cow-slaughter tax subsidy can be found to keep the community alive. Again, I emphasize: We have not heard from Saranagati's GBC. It may be that Saranagati is no longer being subsidized by the beef cow tax exemption. In that case, it still seems that they are tainted by their history of cow abuse (as are so many other ISKCON farms, such as Vrndavana, Mayapura, New Vrndvana, Murari Sevaka, etc.). In that case, at least there should be some public apology and atonement forthcoming. Otherwise the community will surely decline, due to the effects of bad karma. As Srila Prabhupada has stated, one cannot become spiritually advanced without practicing cow protection. It's very hard to point out this kind of fault when one personally knows the devotees. The devotees at Saranagati are some of the nicest people that I have met in ISKCON. But for their own spiritual welfare, they must recognize this truth: It will not be possible for them to make spiritual advancement as long as they continue to stand in the shadow of a legacy of cow abuse. your servant, Hare Krsna dasi On Fri, 12 Nov 1999, COM: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius) wrote: > [Text 2772772 from COM] > > > Dear Samba Prabhu > > > > "everyone of us should be ideal to the other so everyone can get the > > impetus to make progress more and more" ....Srila Prabhupada (1965) > > > > Please accept my obeisances.All glories to Srla Prabhupada! > > Did you read my posting of Nov 10 explaining how NO money was given, taken > > or ever existed regarding taxes at Saranagati? > > Ooops, yes sorry I did see that text, but it was too late I had already > posted my text. > > Actualy I regret posting that text now, who am I to judge or say anything > about something I personaly know very little about. > > It seems odd that Saranagati has to be responsible to keep cows out, surely > the owner has a responsibility to keep his cows in? But I merely wanted to > second the suggestion that if there was money coming, why not use it to > build the fence. Obviously... no money... no fence. > > I personaly am very inspired by many of the things I have heard about > Saranagati, and Madana Mohan prabhu, is a good friend of mine. If you see > him please pass on a hearty Haribol. > > Your servant > Samba das > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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