getting started

March 31, 2002

Dear Ameyatma prabhu,

PAMHO AGTSP HARI BOL

My first concern is that you say that the land is not yours but is on loan from

a wealthy indian so that a temple can be started. What happens if the temple

is started and then something happens and the project becomes unstable? Will

the cow or cows be labeled as a burden? Will they be your animals or will they

belong to the temple, or the assembled devotees who are congregational members

and who have been drinking gomata's milk (in good times ), or will the wealthy

indian man take responsability of the animals since it is his land and he gave

the initial order to buy a cow and that he would pa?

Taking on the care of a cow is even more responsability than having children.

At one time the children will grow up and usually move away and take care of

themselves. The cow,however, is for her/his lifetime a responsability of

utmost importance. They will never on their own be able to leave and support

themselves. They always need to be cared for and looked after. In actuality

we are not involved in so called animal rights. Yes, we are taking care of

cows and all of thier physical needs . We do use the words Cow Protection and

are generally lumped in with the animal rights movement. However, in reality

the Cow is the embodiment of the Religious Principles and her 4 legs are the 4

Pillars of Religiosity. In Kali Yuga the last leg of religious life is

TRUTHFULNESS and daily that is being eroided.

We have seen so many of the innocent groups(children,women,cows, the sick) in

ISKCON abused,used and abandoned .So far the old men have not been added to

this group, but so far they are not old yet. My first advice to you is to

assertain who will be the protector of these cows thru thick and thin. Will

you have a cow/land trust set up for them so they will always have a place to

live with adequet food and shelter and care. We have had so many people ask us

to save a cow from going to the slaughter house. They will pay her price per

pound to initially rescue her/him,but will they pay day after day for her/his

needs, without feeling that she/he is a burden? Will the wealthy owner of the

property concede to pay for the ultimate protection of these Representives of

the Religious principles in devotional consciousness if push comes to shove?

I hope you don't feel that I'm being to heavy but I've seen and heard about to

many horrible things connected to so called cow protection farms/temples. I

would like to encourage you to take care of cows and have these realizations in

Krsna Consciousness, but I also must shed some of basic questions that come to

my mind, with the circumstances that you have provided.

I look forward to your answers on these questions and then we can proceed to

the rest of your questions.

yr servant,

Balabhadra das

Iscowp {USER_LASTNAME} [iscowp (AT) earthlink (DOT) net]

Tuesday, March 26, 2002 7:59 AM

Ameyatma ACBSP

Re: getting started

Dear Ametyatma prabhu,

PAMHO. AGTSP.

Thank you for your e-mail. We have just gotten back from a 6 week stay in

India and are trying to catch up on all our e-mail. Did anyone answer your

letter while we were gone? I have taken the liberty to place your letter in the

cow conference where there are about 100 members from 18 different countries

many of whom have long experience with protecting cows. They may like to share

their knowledge with you. Also if you would like to become a mamber of the cow

conference we can make you a member and you can discuss and ask questions with

the members. This topic has been discussed before on the cow conference and

just recently there was a discussion with a member who is trying to start a

farm. We will gwt back to you soon.

Your servant,

Chayadevi

ISCOWP Secreatary

-

Ameyatma ACBSP

iscowp (AT) earthlink (DOT) net

Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:55 PM

getting started

Hari Bol

I have a 10 acre land, central florida, at least 6-7+ acres avail for

grazing, but right now we are in drought conditions, but that is not at all

normal.

I am considering getting a cow - --- for the very first time, and don't

know an udder from a rudder.

I need to know a lot more - how much time is involved? Costs?

First, what i am looking for: I would want a milk producing cow, which

means either i get a young cow and get her pregnated, or what? In alachua

there was a cow, Radha, brown, don't know anything about breads, she gave nice

milk.

So, what would i be getting into? How about health issues etc.

The property i have is not ours, it is on loan from a wealthy indian for

us to start a temple here. He told us, Buy a Cow... he will pay . yeah, but

who - how to take care of it? ? I was raised in So Calif i know nothing of

animals. But, i want my kids (7,8,9) to have experience and want them to help

take care of the cow. Brush them down, milk them, feed them, care for them,

along with my own input and others as more devotees come. We also want to

farm some of the land, so a working bull would not be out of the question - at

some point.

Any advise and pointers would be very much appreciated.

ys ameyatma das

(my 'dharma' related web site is at:

www.futuresunltd.com/sudarshan New Temple at:

www.futuresunltd.com/krsnavillage )

April 8, 2002

-

Ameyatma - ACBSP

Iscowp {USER_LASTNAME}

Sunday, March 31, 2002 2:30 PM

RE: getting started

Balabhadra Prabhu

pamho agtSP

I understand the long-term nature of the responsibility involved. Right now I

just want all the info i need on what is involved so that i can make the most

responsible decision. Based on what i find out will determine my final

decision. But, as far as everything you have put forward so far, that

responsibility i am prepared to take. I need to know more the daily work

involved, etc. Costs, health (of the cow) concerns.

The arrangement with the land here, while not yet contracted and "could" be

temporary, is stable enough for me to go forward. The land is under a

non-profit trust, headed by the man and his wife - and has been so for many

years. They are 'talking' of full donation, but want to see results first.

But, regardless, i have come here with the idea of using this facility as a

basis to try and gather interest for a much larger property/project. This is

fully understood by everyone. And we have sold our previous personal property

and will be buying our own personal property soon - so there will be a place

for our family - including the cow(s) - can go to in case things don't go well

here. But, the situation is stable on it's own.

Still, i need to know costs and time needs to take care of 1-2 cows. I need

that info to make my own informed decision.

I was really wanting to get a Brahma type cow, but wasn't sure how to find

any, and so was thinking it was not very possible. But during Gaur Purnim one

devotee strongly advised me to get a brahmi cow. He is Indian and told me that

they are known, even in the West, to be more peaceful, less aggressive, more

gentle with kids, etc. And he strongly advised that i get a calf. As the calf

will bond with the family (and us with her) as we grow up together. But, we

also wanted a cow for practical purposes, to supply our family with fresh

milk. So, i am wondering if it is possible to find a young cow with a new

born female calf.??? Ideal anyway. But, how to find such brahmi cows?

The devotee told me to contact the local US Agricultural dept. I live 30 miles

out of Ocala Fl and he was sure that he read that there were Brahma bull

breeders in the Ocala area. So, that would really be ideal.

But, i still need to know the daily work / time invovled, and costs - long-term

committment will be there BEFORE i make any final decision, but i need to be

informed of the detail facts first.

YS ameyatma das

Dear Ameyatma Prabhu,

PAMHO AGTSP

Hare Krsna

Thank you for your response. I have taken the liberty to put parts of your

letter and my response in the cow conference so that others can contribute and

or learn a few points. Also Rohita prabhu from New Talavan farm project where

you may get some information about acquiring Brahmin cows has been made a

receiver. Are you a member of the cow conference? Just contact us if you would

like to be a member.

In general if you are milking, brushing, cleaning up the dung, straining milk,

making sure everything is put away and clean, and checking on them several

times a day to make sure that they are safe and not caught up in a fence or

whatever, you should allow 2 hours a day. You should become aware of differant

seasonal disease that may be prevalent in your area so that when you check on

them you can detect symptoms and then be able to treat them early on. Here

there is a problem in the summer with pink eye which is transmitted by flies.

If it gets bad, which it can do very quickly, the animal can go blind. There

will be days when fencing, putting up winter feed, vet visits, or chasing after

them because they got out and the neighbor called and said they were eating his

garden, that will take more time than you had expected, but what can you do.

As far as costs go that will depend on how much of the feed you grow yourself

or how much you purchase from outside. Putting up initial fencing and what

type of fencing will also determine cost ,which will be called start up cost as

oppossed to daily maintaince. Putting in a water system and a little shed and

corral, feed buckets and halters, lead ropes and all the other little odds and

ends which are start up costs. I can send you a cataloge for portable electric

fencing from a very good company. You can get an idea from that as to portable

electric fencing costs and then you can price out permanent fencing down there

and see what the cost differential is. You may want to do perimiter fencing

with permanent fencing and the internal fences could be portable electric

fences. The beauty of portable fences is that they can be used in many places.

If one area is finished and you want to use another area you can move the

fencing.

Another cost is the initial cost of the animals and getting them to your place.

In purchasing them I would suggest a vet check them out for sound health and

conformation. An independent vet, not the vet who is connected to the farm

where the animals are coming from. Make sure that the herd they are coming

from is a clean herd, no history of diseases which may be prevalent to that

area or state. If they are from another state you will have to do medical

testing and get travel papers so that they may enter your state with the

appropriate medical clearence.

As far as what breed, that is entirerly up to you. It does seem that you are

interested in the Indian breeds.If that is the case, my I suggest that you

correspond with Rohita prabhu in New Talavan. Also you can check with the

local or state Ag extension services. Check out the differant places that they

have on there files. Also check out the local vets who take care of large

animals. Tell them what your looking for and ask them if they know of a farm

which has animals of the sort and DISPOSITION that you are looking for. Rohita

been there in New Talavan for many years and is well versed with some of the

Indian breeds as they have quite a few there. When I was in India recently I

saw quite a few Ger(pronounced gear) cows and bulls. They are very beautiful

and most inportant for the most part the DISPOSITION was mellow and friendly.

If milk is your primary concern don't get an indian breed. If your viewpoint

is multi-faceted then consider the Indian breeds. In the days of yore in India

the breeding was for bulls for agricultural use and not primarily for milk.

Milk was a by-product along with dung and urine. Bulls were the primary

concern. Also for your hot summer and mild winters the Indian breeds would

almost be better.

I hope I have shed some light on your questions. Please send me your

snail-mail address and I will send you the catalog. Looking forward to hearing

from you.

yr servant,

Balabhadra das

Iscowp {USER_LASTNAME} [iscowp (AT) earthlink (DOT) net]

Sunday, March 31, 2002 11:44 AM

Ameyatma - ACBSP; cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net

Re: getting started

Dear Ameyatma prabhu,

PAMHO AGTSP HARI BOL

My first concern is that you say that the land is not yours but is on loan

from a wealthy indian so that a temple can be started. What happens if the

temple is started and then something happens and the project becomes unstable?

Will the cow or cows be labeled as a burden? Will they be your animals or will

they belong to the temple, or the assembled devotees who are congregational

members and who have been drinking gomata's milk (in good times ), or will the

wealthy indian man take responsability of the animals since it is his land and

he gave the initial order to buy a cow and that he would pa?

Taking on the care of a cow is even more responsability than having

children. At one time the children will grow up and usually move away and take

care of themselves. The cow,however, is for her/his lifetime a responsability

of utmost importance. They will never on their own be able to leave and

support themselves. They always need to be cared for and looked after. In

actuality we are not involved in so called animal rights. Yes, we are taking

care of cows and all of thier physical needs . We do use the words Cow

Protection and are generally lumped in with the animal rights movement.

However, in reality the Cow is the embodiment of the Religious Principles and

her 4 legs are the 4 Pillars of Religiosity. In Kali Yuga the last leg of

religious life is TRUTHFULNESS and daily that is being eroided.

We have seen so many of the innocent groups(children,women,cows, the sick)

in ISKCON abused,used and abandoned .So far the old men have not been added to