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Cow Quote #7 - leather

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"Gauranga Prema (das) BCAIS (Cape Town - SA)" wrote:

 

> Teachings of Queen Kunti - 26 (Enchantment by Krsna's Glories)

>

> Why is cow protection so much advocated? Because the cow is the most

> important animal. There is no injunction that one should not eat the flesh

> of tigers or other such animals. In the Vedic culture those who are

> meat-eaters are recommended to eat the flesh of goats, dogs, hogs, or other

> lower animals, but never the flesh of cows, the most important animals.

> While living, the cows give important service by giving milk, and even after

> death they give service by making available their skin, hooves, and horns,

> which may be used in many ways. Nonetheless, the present human society is so

> ungrateful that they needlessly kill these innocent cows. Therefore KRSNa

> comes to punish them.

 

I always find this an interesting quote. In this example, Srila Prabhupada

indicates that the skin, hooves and horns of cows and bulls can be used for

various purposes after the natural death of the animal. I'm wondering, are

there any ISKCON farms where this is practiced?

 

On one hand, one must always be on guard against selling "ahimsa" leather at a

higher premium than regular leather -- and thereby encouraging unscrupulous

persons from secretly killing cows to earn this extra profit margin -- but on

the other hand, in a post-industrial society, leather would be an important

replacement for various plastics and elastics currently derived from

petro-chemicals.

 

Before plastics, leather was quite important. According to one source I read,

the need for leather for belts to run early industrial equipment (before

rubber,

etc.) was actually one of the chief -- if little known -- reasons for the

virtual extermination of the buffalo in the U.S. in the late 19th century.

Obviously, we would never want to build up such a great demand for leather

products. But, on the other hand, Prabhupada is indicating here that a certain

amount of use -- from cows well treated in life, and then allowed to die a

natural death -- is acceptable.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

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Dear all,

 

HKDD wrote:

 

In this

> example, Srila Prabhupada

> indicates that the skin, hooves and horns of cows

> and bulls can be used for

> various purposes after the natural death of the

> animal. I'm wondering, are

> there any ISKCON farms where this is practiced?

 

I only know from experience at the Manor, UK, that I

know not of any cow there having its body been made

use of after its death. What I have heard is that

there were elaborate burial rituals performed. I found

this anecdote to be rather sad, as it was in direct

contrast to the teachings and had all the hallmarks of

sentimentalism. I once had the pleasure of skinning a

dead cow on a commune in Italy, the leather was then

used for part of a tipee and for shoes.

 

> On one hand, one must always be on guard against

> selling "ahimsa" leather at a

> higher premium than regular leather -- and thereby

> encouraging unscrupulous

> persons from secretly killing cows to earn this

> extra profit margin

 

One must be on gaurd against the abuse that could come

of premium 'Happy Cow' leather products, but if we are

ever to make a viable concern out of cow protection

then any form of income, at either normal substitute

or premium prices, would surely be helpful as long as

the morality of the exchange is deemed to be good.

In a certified market of Happy Cow Farms the type of

unscrupulous behaviour mentioned above would mean the

farm would lose its status. It is the regulations on

which the certification is given that will be set so

as to diminish immoral activity.

 

-- but on

> the other hand, in a post-industrial society,

> leather would be an important

> replacement for various plastics and elastics

> currently derived from

> petro-chemicals.

 

1) All things being equal, oil is not going to run out

for a long time to come; and it is being substituted

via various plant-based polymers.

2) People are starting to prefer "natural" goods as

opposed to "synthetic". Leather from protected animals

is the highest standard of ethical leather wear and

should command both premium prices and as a fashion

statement from consumers. It is up to the producers to

ensure ethical production methods.

 

reasons for the

> virtual extermination of the buffalo in the U.S. in

> the late 19th century.

> Obviously, we would never want to build up such a

> great demand for leather

> products.

 

If the demand is there for 'normal' leather and enough

protected animals could substitute such leather for

Protected leather then no demand is being created, it

is just being substituted. And if demand brings

forward production then, if the medthod was good, it

would engender cow protection via a market mechanism.

The consumers would have to wait many years though for

their leather to arrive. Again all these factors can

bring in cheating, which must be regulated out, and

very high premium prices, which would aid in

supporting the fiscal situation of the producers.

 

But, on the other hand, Prabhupada is

> indicating here that a certain

> amount of use -- from cows well treated in life, and

> then allowed to die a

> natural death -- is acceptable.

 

I understand that Prabhupada is saying all protected

farm animals, and those "lesser" animals killed in

domestication or from the wildlife, should have their

bodies fully utilised in death as they were in life. I

do not see him putting forth a semtimentalist paradgim

but one that is entirely utilitarian and in accordance

with natural principles; as all indigenous cultures

have.

 

Mark

 

 

 

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-

"Noma T. Petroff" <npetroff (AT) bowdoin (DOT) edu>

"Cow (Protection and related issues)" <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net>

Friday, January 04, 2002 2:12 PM

Re: Cow Quote #7 - leather

 

 

> "Gauranga Prema (das) BCAIS (Cape Town - SA)" wrote:

>

> > Teachings of Queen Kunti - 26 (Enchantment by Krsna's Glories)

> >

> > Why is cow protection so much advocated? Because the cow is the most

> > important animal. There is no injunction that one should not eat the

flesh

> > of tigers or other such animals. In the Vedic culture those who are

> > meat-eaters are recommended to eat the flesh of goats, dogs, hogs, or

other

> > lower animals, but never the flesh of cows, the most important animals.

> > While living, the cows give important service by giving milk, and even

after

> > death they give service by making available their skin, hooves, and

horns,

> > which may be used in many ways. Nonetheless, the present human society

is so

> > ungrateful that they needlessly kill these innocent cows. Therefore

KRSNa

> > comes to punish them.

>

> I always find this an interesting quote. In this example, Srila

Prabhupada

> indicates that the skin, hooves and horns of cows and bulls can be used

for

> various purposes after the natural death of the animal. I'm wondering,

are

> there any ISKCON farms where this is practiced?

 

Comment;

At the former Bridesville farm (Vancouver's first farm, in the Okanagan area

of B.C.) two devotees utilized all parts (skin, bone, horns and hoofs)

following Srila Prabhupada's desire for them to be used. However as it was

late in the year and a snowstorm prevented that hide being fully cured. No

animal died the following year and the farm closed that fall (September

1976). Both these devotees were native Americans (one a Delaware and the

other from Verra Cruz Mexico), they used used the same methods of their

ancestors in the process.

 

Here in New Talavan we have only used the horns to make horns from.

ys, Rohita dasa

 

>

> On one hand, one must always be on guard against selling "ahimsa" leather

at a

> higher premium than regular leather -- and thereby encouraging

unscrupulous

> persons from secretly killing cows to earn this extra profit margin -- but

on

> the other hand, in a post-industrial society, leather would be an

important

> replacement for various plastics and elastics currently derived from

> petro-chemicals.

>

> Before plastics, leather was quite important. According to one source I

read,

> the need for leather for belts to run early industrial equipment (before

> rubber,

> etc.) was actually one of the chief -- if little known -- reasons for the

> virtual extermination of the buffalo in the U.S. in the late 19th century.

> Obviously, we would never want to build up such a great demand for leather

> products. But, on the other hand, Prabhupada is indicating here that a

certain

> amount of use -- from cows well treated in life, and then allowed to die a

> natural death -- is acceptable.

>

> your servant,

>

> Hare Krsna dasi

>

>

>

>

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  • 2 weeks later...

> Here in New Talavan we have only used the horns to make horns from.

> ys, Rohita dasa

 

Does anyone know the recipe for Rudolph Steiners preparation using a cows

horn filled with dung and buried? I once attended a seminar on his

preparations, and a very scientific presentation was made regarding this

preparation which, although obviously small in volume is a very effective

soil fertiliser, which is greatly diluted and spread on the fields. I know

the location of some of the graves of old cows here, and can get the horns

but I want to find out how deep to bury them for how long, and how much to

dilute the resulting fertilser.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Your servant

Samba das

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I suspect it is more bacterial inoculant rather than a fertilizer that is the

actual result.

-

Samba (das) SDG (Planning/Varnasrama)

Noma T. Petroff ; Rohita dasa ; Cow (Protection and related issues)

Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:30 PM

Re: Cow Quote #7 - leather

 

 

> Here in New Talavan we have only used the horns to make horns from.

> ys, Rohita dasa

 

Does anyone know the recipe for Rudolph Steiners preparation using a cows

horn filled with dung and buried? I once attended a seminar on his

preparations, and a very scientific presentation was made regarding this

preparation which, although obviously small in volume is a very effective

soil fertiliser, which is greatly diluted and spread on the fields. I know

the location of some of the graves of old cows here, and can get the horns

but I want to find out how deep to bury them for how long, and how much to

dilute the resulting fertilser.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Your servant

Samba das

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