Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 "Gauranga Prema (das) BCAIS (Cape Town - SA)" wrote: > Teachings of Queen Kunti - 26 (Enchantment by Krsna's Glories) > > Why is cow protection so much advocated? Because the cow is the most > important animal. There is no injunction that one should not eat the flesh > of tigers or other such animals. In the Vedic culture those who are > meat-eaters are recommended to eat the flesh of goats, dogs, hogs, or other > lower animals, but never the flesh of cows, the most important animals. > While living, the cows give important service by giving milk, and even after > death they give service by making available their skin, hooves, and horns, > which may be used in many ways. Nonetheless, the present human society is so > ungrateful that they needlessly kill these innocent cows. Therefore KRSNa > comes to punish them. I always find this an interesting quote. In this example, Srila Prabhupada indicates that the skin, hooves and horns of cows and bulls can be used for various purposes after the natural death of the animal. I'm wondering, are there any ISKCON farms where this is practiced? On one hand, one must always be on guard against selling "ahimsa" leather at a higher premium than regular leather -- and thereby encouraging unscrupulous persons from secretly killing cows to earn this extra profit margin -- but on the other hand, in a post-industrial society, leather would be an important replacement for various plastics and elastics currently derived from petro-chemicals. Before plastics, leather was quite important. According to one source I read, the need for leather for belts to run early industrial equipment (before rubber, etc.) was actually one of the chief -- if little known -- reasons for the virtual extermination of the buffalo in the U.S. in the late 19th century. Obviously, we would never want to build up such a great demand for leather products. But, on the other hand, Prabhupada is indicating here that a certain amount of use -- from cows well treated in life, and then allowed to die a natural death -- is acceptable. your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 Dear all, HKDD wrote: In this > example, Srila Prabhupada > indicates that the skin, hooves and horns of cows > and bulls can be used for > various purposes after the natural death of the > animal. I'm wondering, are > there any ISKCON farms where this is practiced? I only know from experience at the Manor, UK, that I know not of any cow there having its body been made use of after its death. What I have heard is that there were elaborate burial rituals performed. I found this anecdote to be rather sad, as it was in direct contrast to the teachings and had all the hallmarks of sentimentalism. I once had the pleasure of skinning a dead cow on a commune in Italy, the leather was then used for part of a tipee and for shoes. > On one hand, one must always be on guard against > selling "ahimsa" leather at a > higher premium than regular leather -- and thereby > encouraging unscrupulous > persons from secretly killing cows to earn this > extra profit margin One must be on gaurd against the abuse that could come of premium 'Happy Cow' leather products, but if we are ever to make a viable concern out of cow protection then any form of income, at either normal substitute or premium prices, would surely be helpful as long as the morality of the exchange is deemed to be good. In a certified market of Happy Cow Farms the type of unscrupulous behaviour mentioned above would mean the farm would lose its status. It is the regulations on which the certification is given that will be set so as to diminish immoral activity. -- but on > the other hand, in a post-industrial society, > leather would be an important > replacement for various plastics and elastics > currently derived from > petro-chemicals. 1) All things being equal, oil is not going to run out for a long time to come; and it is being substituted via various plant-based polymers. 2) People are starting to prefer "natural" goods as opposed to "synthetic". Leather from protected animals is the highest standard of ethical leather wear and should command both premium prices and as a fashion statement from consumers. It is up to the producers to ensure ethical production methods. reasons for the > virtual extermination of the buffalo in the U.S. in > the late 19th century. > Obviously, we would never want to build up such a > great demand for leather > products. If the demand is there for 'normal' leather and enough protected animals could substitute such leather for Protected leather then no demand is being created, it is just being substituted. And if demand brings forward production then, if the medthod was good, it would engender cow protection via a market mechanism. The consumers would have to wait many years though for their leather to arrive. Again all these factors can bring in cheating, which must be regulated out, and very high premium prices, which would aid in supporting the fiscal situation of the producers. But, on the other hand, Prabhupada is > indicating here that a certain > amount of use -- from cows well treated in life, and > then allowed to die a > natural death -- is acceptable. I understand that Prabhupada is saying all protected farm animals, and those "lesser" animals killed in domestication or from the wildlife, should have their bodies fully utilised in death as they were in life. I do not see him putting forth a semtimentalist paradgim but one that is entirely utilitarian and in accordance with natural principles; as all indigenous cultures have. Mark Send FREE video emails in Mail! http://promo./videomail/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 - "Noma T. Petroff" <npetroff (AT) bowdoin (DOT) edu> "Cow (Protection and related issues)" <Cow (AT) pamho (DOT) net> Friday, January 04, 2002 2:12 PM Re: Cow Quote #7 - leather > "Gauranga Prema (das) BCAIS (Cape Town - SA)" wrote: > > > Teachings of Queen Kunti - 26 (Enchantment by Krsna's Glories) > > > > Why is cow protection so much advocated? Because the cow is the most > > important animal. There is no injunction that one should not eat the flesh > > of tigers or other such animals. In the Vedic culture those who are > > meat-eaters are recommended to eat the flesh of goats, dogs, hogs, or other > > lower animals, but never the flesh of cows, the most important animals. > > While living, the cows give important service by giving milk, and even after > > death they give service by making available their skin, hooves, and horns, > > which may be used in many ways. Nonetheless, the present human society is so > > ungrateful that they needlessly kill these innocent cows. Therefore KRSNa > > comes to punish them. > > I always find this an interesting quote. In this example, Srila Prabhupada > indicates that the skin, hooves and horns of cows and bulls can be used for > various purposes after the natural death of the animal. I'm wondering, are > there any ISKCON farms where this is practiced? Comment; At the former Bridesville farm (Vancouver's first farm, in the Okanagan area of B.C.) two devotees utilized all parts (skin, bone, horns and hoofs) following Srila Prabhupada's desire for them to be used. However as it was late in the year and a snowstorm prevented that hide being fully cured. No animal died the following year and the farm closed that fall (September 1976). Both these devotees were native Americans (one a Delaware and the other from Verra Cruz Mexico), they used used the same methods of their ancestors in the process. Here in New Talavan we have only used the horns to make horns from. ys, Rohita dasa > > On one hand, one must always be on guard against selling "ahimsa" leather at a > higher premium than regular leather -- and thereby encouraging unscrupulous > persons from secretly killing cows to earn this extra profit margin -- but on > the other hand, in a post-industrial society, leather would be an important > replacement for various plastics and elastics currently derived from > petro-chemicals. > > Before plastics, leather was quite important. According to one source I read, > the need for leather for belts to run early industrial equipment (before > rubber, > etc.) was actually one of the chief -- if little known -- reasons for the > virtual extermination of the buffalo in the U.S. in the late 19th century. > Obviously, we would never want to build up such a great demand for leather > products. But, on the other hand, Prabhupada is indicating here that a certain > amount of use -- from cows well treated in life, and then allowed to die a > natural death -- is acceptable. > > your servant, > > Hare Krsna dasi > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 > Here in New Talavan we have only used the horns to make horns from. > ys, Rohita dasa Does anyone know the recipe for Rudolph Steiners preparation using a cows horn filled with dung and buried? I once attended a seminar on his preparations, and a very scientific presentation was made regarding this preparation which, although obviously small in volume is a very effective soil fertiliser, which is greatly diluted and spread on the fields. I know the location of some of the graves of old cows here, and can get the horns but I want to find out how deep to bury them for how long, and how much to dilute the resulting fertilser. Can anyone help? Your servant Samba das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 I suspect it is more bacterial inoculant rather than a fertilizer that is the actual result. - Samba (das) SDG (Planning/Varnasrama) Noma T. Petroff ; Rohita dasa ; Cow (Protection and related issues) Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:30 PM Re: Cow Quote #7 - leather > Here in New Talavan we have only used the horns to make horns from. > ys, Rohita dasa Does anyone know the recipe for Rudolph Steiners preparation using a cows horn filled with dung and buried? I once attended a seminar on his preparations, and a very scientific presentation was made regarding this preparation which, although obviously small in volume is a very effective soil fertiliser, which is greatly diluted and spread on the fields. I know the location of some of the graves of old cows here, and can get the horns but I want to find out how deep to bury them for how long, and how much to dilute the resulting fertilser. Can anyone help? Your servant Samba das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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