Robbers on the farm

[Guest guest]

You might consider the non violent approach! Sense Krishna's snails ate up

Krishna's flowers and Krishna's veggies, Perhaps we should make a garland of

snails. No, I am serious. If you drill a tiny hole in the very edge of the

snails shell you could tie threads through them and decorate the alter and

Make garlands out of them. Then after several hours of being a garland you

could reward them by placing them in a shallow pan with corn meal and a very

shallow dish with water. After you have offered them Pershadim, and they

have eaten their fill you can remove the threads and send them on their way!

You can easily tell who has been offered by which snail has a tiny hole in

its shell!

I am really confused guys. We are not supposed to protect our food from

predators, be they birds (sorry you purple martin guys) who have in the past

descended into my orchards and wiped out my crop destroying half of every

fruit for the seeds inside. To wild pigs, who just trashed my entire garden,

to coyote who eat my melons for the water and sweet. ( yes I had water out

for the desert Critters) to desert tortoises who eat the bottoms out of the

melons or tomatoes. Near As I can determine we can use "hit Critters" Ducks,

geese, cats, and dogs not actually personally kill the pests our selves and

let nature take its course. I somehow think that is hypocrisy! If I kill or

hire it done it is the same. I heard a story I don't know if it is true.

That Prabhupada wrote and Chewed out a Swami in Mayapur for not killing a

robbers in the temple but shooting at them in the fields as they left!

Critters that rob us of our food are no less and they are not human ... yet.

We can defend our selves if attacked, with deadly force if necessary!

Be it man or tiger. If Grasshoppers or snails attack my garden they are

robbing me of my food. I understand it is OK to kill robbers the temple is

this different? If it isn't why do we have armed guards at the gates of the

temple in India? What is their purpose? If they are to be a deterrent, why

the guns and spears?

I am wrong, probably, but I feel the need to defend my food from attack!

I think I would be wrong, if After I finished stomping the last tomato horn

worm in my garden, I went out and started killing the horn worms that were in

my honey suckle vines. Those horn worms aren't a threat to my food supply.

So they aren't a threat to my life. If I killed them that would be wrong.

I think several months ago we had a similar quandary. The up shot is If

posable drive them away, with fire crackers, fences, scarecrows, dogs, cats

or kill them! Animals can't be bribed they wont take just the first several

rows or half the fruit, they want all they can get as often as posable. At

this point in time those of us at least in the USA can always get food. So

at least in theory perhaps we should just let them eat up all our crops, then

when there is no more food to be had at the stores. Then we should start

defending our crops. I am not sure what is the correct thing to do, but I

stomp tomato horn worms! I found one on my egg plant yesterday, stomped him

also! The predators in my garden are fair game! The ones just hanging out

in the rest of the land I don't bother. But when the Poop does hit the fan I

will defend my food from human or insect attacks. I might be able to reason

with hungry humans and even share, but not with insects!

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol

 

 

>DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com

>DGilsen (AT) aol (DOT) com, Practical.Varnasrama (AT) bbt (DOT) se, Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se,

> Apocalypse.1999?@bbt.se

 

> I am really confused guys. We are not supposed to protect our food

>from

>predators, be they birds (sorry you purple martin guys) who have in the

>past

>descended into my orchards and wiped out my crop destroying half of every

>fruit for the seeds inside. To wild pigs, who just trashed my entire

>garden,

>to coyote who eat my melons for the water and sweet. ( yes I had water out

>for the desert Critters) to desert tortoises who eat the bottoms out of the

>melons or tomatoes. Near As I can determine we can use "hit Critters"

>Ducks,

>geese, cats, and dogs not actually personally kill the pests our selves and

>let nature take its course. I somehow think that is hypocrisy! If I kill

>or

>hire it done it is the same.

 

Difference is, that it is the business of a duck to eat snails, cats to eat

birds and mice, etc. It is not our business to kill. We are in the human

form. Human-e.

 

I heard a story I don't know if it is true.

>That Prabhupada wrote and Chewed out a Swami in Mayapur for not killing a

>robbers in the temple but shooting at them in the fields as they left!

>Critters that rob us of our food are no less and they are not human ...

>yet.

> We can defend our selves if attacked, with deadly force if necessary!

>Be it man or tiger. If Grasshoppers or snails attack my garden they are

>robbing me of my food.

 

Can it be remedied by their natural predators. That is natures way. We are

not by nature, violent. At least not as devotees. But sometimes it may be

necessary. Take Arjuna. By nature he was non-violent, but as a service he

killed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I understand it is OK to kill robbers the temple is

>this different? If it isn't why do we have armed guards at the gates of the

>temple in India? What is their purpose? If they are to be a deterrent,

>why

>the guns and spears?

> I am wrong, probably, but I feel the need to defend my food from

>attack!

> I think I would be wrong, if After I finished stomping the last tomato

>horn

>worm in my garden, I went out and started killing the horn worms that were

>in

>my honey suckle vines. Those horn worms aren't a threat to my food supply.

>So they aren't a threat to my life. If I killed them that would be wrong.

> I think several months ago we had a similar quandary. The up shot is

>If

>posable drive them away, with fire crackers, fences, scarecrows, dogs, cats

>or kill them! Animals can't be bribed they wont take just the first

>several

>rows or half the fruit, they want all they can get as often as posable. At

>this point in time those of us at least in the USA can always get food. So

>at least in theory perhaps we should just let them eat up all our crops,

>then

>when there is no more food to be had at the stores. Then we should start

>defending our crops. I am not sure what is the correct thing to do, but I

>stomp tomato horn worms! I found one on my egg plant yesterday, stomped

>him

>also! The predators in my garden are fair game! The ones just hanging out

>in the rest of the land I don't bother. But when the Poop does hit the fan

>I

>will defend my food from human or insect attacks. I might be able to

>reason

>with hungry humans and even share, but not with insects!

>

 

____

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[Guest guest]

Well, in spirit, I am with the "protect & defend" mode of gadrdening: but

"stomping": on a tomato worm or anything else? Can't you just put them into

a an old can (or jar or whatever) and toss them somewhere else? Like,

relocate them, so to speak.

Some creatures are simply unhealthy to share your home & life

with...roaches and mice for example. So, get, get a cat for the

mice...clean, repaint, clean, put out all your nice and natural roach

repellant, and when all else fails, call in the armed forces (ie; the

exterminator..)!! I really don't think it is nice, but, faced with issues of

human health and local sanitary laws, one must respond in a diligent and

effective manner. Likewise in or gardens, are we planting only for the bugs

& slugs to feast. etc...what to spesak of deer and ground hogs etc.....what

to do? Feed "them" and go to the bhoga market for ourselves because "they"

have eatten everything all up? Or, spend thousands building a fenced

fortress (as one area of NV is doing)..but can everyone afford such defence?

Is it even practical?

I am just throwing this out for a little fun in debate & ideas...I think

everyone has to figure out their own local strategy and depend upon KRISHNA!

[Guest guest]

I am not attempting to answer the spiritual/ethical question of stomping on

the bugs eating your garden.

 

The only comment I have would be to practice true organic gardening. I know

there is another term for it, but I can't remember. I lived in Okinawa,

Japan for six years. I had a garden for a couple of those years. The first

year bugs/insects of all sorts ate everything I tried to plant. I asked an

older Okinawan man I knew what I should do - since he always had a beautiful

garden. He showed me what plants and other natural substances I could use to

protect my young veggies from their predators. For example, the worms that

ate my lettuce didn't like a certain palm bush, so we would take branches

from that bush and cover the young lettuce as it grew - no problems with

worms again.

 

He knew a similar answer for everything I was trying to grow - it was

phenomenal - didn't need chemicals and didn't need to stomp any worms or

insects.

 

Somewhere this information must be available for our natural plants in the

U.S.

 

How do I get added to the Practical.Varnasram conference???

 

Ys,

Bhadra dd

[Guest guest]

> He knew a similar answer for everything I was trying to grow - it was

> phenomenal - didn't need chemicals and didn't need to stomp any worms or

> insects.

 

Please accept my humble obeisances.

Did you have cabbage there?

If so what were the measures to keep away the caterpillars?

Y.S, Gunamani d.d.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 99-10-12 13:40:12 EDT, you write:

 

<< Did you have cabbage there?

If so what were the measures to keep away the caterpillars >>

 

I didn't grow cabbage. Actually, it was about 15 years ago and I haven't had

a garden since (other than wheatgrass, sunflower, buckwheat, and sprouts in

my kitchen). The methods he used were specific to the plants in Japan so

they would be different depending on where you are located.

 

It would be interesting to find some books on the subject. I will try to

research the topic when I have time and let you know if I come up with

anything.

 

Ys,

Bhadra

[Guest guest]

"COM: Mahapurana (das) ACBSP (Atlanta, GA - USA)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2696068 from COM]

>

> In a message dated 99-10-12 13:40:12 EDT, you write:

>

> << Did you have cabbage there?

> If so what were the measures to keep away the caterpillars >>

>

> I didn't grow cabbage. Actually, it was about 15 years ago and I haven't had

> a garden since (other than wheatgrass, sunflower, buckwheat, and sprouts in

> my kitchen). The methods he used were specific to the plants in Japan so

> they would be different depending on where you are located.

>

> It would be interesting to find some books on the subject. I will try to

> research the topic when I have time and let you know if I come up with

> anything.

>

> Ys,

> Bhadra

 

BT spray paralyzes their stomachs and they stop feeding. Yes, inevitably,

they

die.

 

Another method for controlling them on the brassicas ( cabbage is a brassica,

as

are brussels sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, etc.) is to cover them with

floating row cover. This is a physical barrier that prevents the white

butterflies from laying their eggs on the plants, Hence no catepillars.

 

Yes, we need a whole layer of elders who understand their local environment

and

how to intersact with it in the most Krsna consciousness manner possible.

untile

we have them, we have to do what we have to do to survive, and reality has to

take precedence over theory.

[Guest guest]

>To wild pigs, who just trashed my entire garden,

>to coyote who eat my melons for the water and sweet. ( yes I had water out

>for the desert Critters) to desert tortoises who eat the bottoms out of the

>melons or tomatoes. Near As I can determine we can use "hit Critters"

>Ducks,

>geese, cats, and dogs not actually personally kill the pests our selves and

>let nature take its course. I somehow think that is hypocrisy! If I kill

>or

>hire it done it is the same. I heard a story I don't know if it is true.

>That Prabhupada wrote and Chewed out a Swami in Mayapur for not killing a

>robbers in the temple but shooting at them in the fields as they left!

 

There is a quote in the Conversations where Prabhupada is talking about a

Ksatriya being allowed to kill animals that may destroy ones crops.

In Croatia there is a devotee who shoots the wild pigs who do destroy crops.

If you feel you have some Ksatriya in you then this seems to be legitimate.

I have heard many times We are of "mixed varna"

It is in the sastras that Ksatriyas have to practise killing animals so that

they can be capable of killing people. Prabhupada also commented on

this.............Someone has to act as Kasatriya OTHERWISE HOW WILL WE EVER

HAVE vARNASRAMA? You can't only have the three other varnas.

See qualities of Ksatriya - Bhagavad Gita. He is also not faint hearted.

 

The tomato worms can easily be eradicated by the yearly application of

properly made 'Indore Compost' Same for Potato eel worm problems etc. etc.

Thermophylic Compost burns up disease and other pests.

[Guest guest]

>

>There is a quote in the Conversations where Prabhupada is talking about a

>Ksatriya being allowed to kill animals that may destroy ones crops.

 

 

 

What is the reference for this quote?

I have no knowledge of it. On the other hand, I can give you quotes where

Srila Prabhupada said that the vedic way was to grow extra so that the

hungry animals can eat. His own father, Gour Mohan fed the mice to protect

his cloth from being eaten,

 

 

 

>In Croatia there is a devotee who shoots the wild pigs who do destroy

>crops.

 

This is irrelevant information and alone does not justify killing.

 

 

>If you feel you have some Ksatriya in you then this seems to be legitimate.

>I have heard many times We are of "mixed varna"

 

WHERE have you heard this?

 

>It is in the sastras that Ksatriyas have to practise killing animals so

>that

>they can be capable of killing people.

 

This is also IRRELEVANT! Killing people is not required in the circumstances

described. The crop-growers are vaisyas.

 

Prabhupada also commented on

>this.............Someone has to act as Kasatriya OTHERWISE HOW WILL WE EVER

>HAVE vARNASRAMA?

 

Agreed. But where are the ksatriyas who are providing land to the vaisyas,

protecting their rights to farm it, ensuring the protection of cows, dealing

justly with their people's grievances, going to great lengths to hear how

they may improve as leaders, always acting under the advice of independent

pure-hearted brahmanas, ensuring religious principles are followed, etc.?

Killing is a secondary activity to achieve these ends, as the meaning of the

word indicates "to PROTECT from harm"

Where is the ksatriya who will fearlessly joyfully enters a battle to the

death?

 

You can't only have the three other varnas.

 

>See qualities of Ksatriya - Bhagavad Gita. He is also not faint hearted.

>

>The tomato worms can easily be eradicated by the yearly application of

>properly made 'Indore Compost' Same for Potato eel worm problems etc. etc.

>Thermophylic Compost burns up disease and other pests.

 

____

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