Florida CSA dairy farm - worker satisfaction

[Guest guest]

Derek is addressing a critical point here. You need to carefully consider what

life will be like for the people who work with the animals.

 

The big problem that I see in ISKCON is that cow workers were put in a position

of sudras, but generally that did not suit their natures.

 

So you should do a general varnasrama analysis of the system you are setting

up.

 

In general, those who protect cows should be vaisyas. They must have enough

independence to develop and create security for themselves that they will want

to stay for the long term. The smaller the ratio of vaisyas to sudra

assistants, the lower level of quality treatment for the cows.

 

Unfortunately, ISKCON generally sets up its cow protection programs so that

most

of the people working on them are in the position of sudras.

 

Two possible things occur:

 

1. If the person is really a vaisya type, he will stay for a while, be really

fired up and make a lot of innovative changes -- then as he gradually sees more

and more that he does not have the independence to develop the project

according

to his own vision -- he becomes frustrated and leaves -- especially when he

sees

there is no future in it for him to maintain a family.

 

2. If a person is mostly a sudra type, he'll be willing to work for some time

-- but again, if he sees there is no good supervision, no good trainig and no

provision for his longterm welfare and security -- then he also leaves.

 

Working with the animals generally takes a lot of time. Often the person

cannot

regularly attend the morning program at the temple. Soon, he is regarded as

"fallen." In any case, he generally separates himself socially from the main

temple community.

 

With regard to this last factor, I think the Ramana Reti community might be in

a

better position than many ISKCON communities in the past. Devotees are more

mature and not so quick to criticize someone for the external level of their

spiritual activities. However, it is still very important to make social

arrangements to help insure that cow protection workers are properly

integrated,

welcomed and socially valued in the community. Perhaps they could give

Bhagavad-gita (or varnasrama) classes once a week. Help them out so they can

take major roles in set-up for festivals and other bond-forming occasions.

 

All this is to say that whether a cow program succeeds or fails depends to a

very great degree on the happiness of the workers and whether they can feel

satisfied and can see a future for themselves which allows for them to develop

over time.

 

Commercial dairy farms do not have to have quite such concern over the social

welfare of their workers. If a worker becomes frustrated and quits, there is

an

unlimited stream of immigrant Mexican laborers that can replace him.

 

For a devotee farm, the situation is different. Generally there is 1)

insufficient training, 2) insufficient social integration. Generally when a

cow

worker quits, it's a crisis.

 

I'm not sure that the land shortage Derek mentions will necessarily be a

problem

if you have a controlled breeding program and can stick faithfully to your

target herd growth.

 

The weak link in the operation is that when you have a big labor turnover, it

is

extremely common for a new cow person to come in and say, "I've got the

solution

to all this -- you just need to breed more cows, increase production and expand

your marketing base." This sounds quite reasonable to unsophisticated

businessmen in the community -- and they say, "Go ahead!" He then breeds a

bunch of cows -- beyond the original herd growth target -- and then leaves when

people ask him why he didn't train any of the oxen and why the non-milking cows

are being treated so poorly (didn't have time, because he was too busy

"developing markets.").

 

So, don't take the labor issue for granted. If workers aren't sociologically

integrated, and if they don't see an economically secure future for themselves

-- they will leave.

 

So, labor issues need to be an important focus of your development program.

Also, you should be subscribing to several professional magazines like "Hoard's

Dairyman" and "Successful Farmer" so you can keep an eye on methods for dealing

with labor issues (just don't get sucked into their whole agribusiness

perspective). Actually "Successful Farmer" is a free magazine. It's paid for

by advertising -- but it does address useful labor and environmental

considerations.

 

Anyway, hope that helps. Do not underestimate the crucial importance of

getting

the labor issues right. Cow protection starts with the cowherd.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi

 

billy bob buckwheat wrote:

 

> Please don't go about it this way... if I must say to make some inpact on

> your thoughts then,

> I PROMISE you, It will never work.. Even you start some kind of thing in

> this type of setting and eventualy it will turn in tragedy.. I not speaking

> in terms of just Iskcon past but also logic.. The main problem is you will

> not have the appropriate land after time and herd becomes larger and then

> that makes more need for hands for care which you will need a couple dozen

> intelegent Bhakta's who are fired up and want to spend their whole life with

> you for free or barley anything and then (THEY) would also have to breed to

> keep up with the herd size..

> If you started your idea in this industrial style you would either eventualy

> start killing off the heard because of finances and would be the same as any

> blood dairy, or the cows would start falling of the edge of the continent

> and would be inside the local shops and stores trying to snag a snickers bar

> or a head of lettuce..

> I'm saying in a consolodated form, and personaly....

> never mind the sarcasm..

> compationatly, Derek-

[Guest guest]

-

Noma T. Petroff <npetroff (AT) bowdoin (DOT) edu>

>

> So, don't take the labor issue for granted. If workers aren't

sociologically

> integrated, and if they don't see an economically secure future for

themselves

> -- they will leave.

>

> So, labor issues need to be an important focus of your development

program.

 

Is the $7 dollars an hour their take home pay? Are you providing any

benefits like health insurance, dental, retirement? If you are, with $7 an

hour take home pay - that is even low for let's say a man to support his

family or just a single person to live on in America. And if that is the pay

with no benefits- you won't have anybody stay very long. And then if it is

under the table with not even social security or worker's comp benefits, the

quality of workers and their commitment decreases drastically. And then the

quality of care for the cows becomes low.

 

I agree with Hare Krsna dasi on the consideration that the people who take

care of the cows usually are not treated well and then they go away. I was

just talikng to Radhanath Swami about the same issue. New Vrndavana just

lost one young boy who has worked for years with the cows and if he could

have been paid a higher salary it is likely he would not be leaving. He had

asked for more and there was not more to give him. it seems that everyone

who has been close to this issue agrees that the cowherds need to be taken

care of if you expect to have good devotional care.

 

But since you are starting a new program and are not inheriting problems

from the past to deal with, this is something you can consider.

 

Your servant,

Chayadevi

[Guest guest]

My GOD, Hare Krsna D., You have it down exactly how it is...........

like a science.. You have the exact picture... and explain it paitiently

well..

Thank you........................................

 

YS, Derek-

 

ps, I wasn't getting paid at Gita Nagari, I just wanted more help...Real

help. and a little personal facility.. You have all the right statments, I

guess thats why you wrote the book.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

>Derek is addressing a critical point here. You need to carefully consider

>what

>life will be like for the people who work with the animals.

>

>The big problem that I see in ISKCON is that cow workers were put in a

>position

>of sudras, but generally that did not suit their natures.

>

>So you should do a general varnasrama analysis of the system you are

>setting up.

>

>In general, those who protect cows should be vaisyas. They must have

>enough

>independence to develop and create security for themselves that they will

>want

>to stay for the long term. The smaller the ratio of vaisyas to sudra

>assistants, the lower level of quality treatment for the cows.

>

>Unfortunately, ISKCON generally sets up its cow protection programs so that

>most

>of the people working on them are in the position of sudras.

>

>Two possible things occur:

>

>1. If the person is really a vaisya type, he will stay for a while, be

>really

>fired up and make a lot of innovative changes -- then as he gradually sees

>more

>and more that he does not have the independence to develop the project

>according

>to his own vision -- he becomes frustrated and leaves -- especially when he

>sees

>there is no future in it for him to maintain a family.

>

>2. If a person is mostly a sudra type, he'll be willing to work for some

>time

>-- but again, if he sees there is no good supervision, no good trainig and

>no

>provision for his longterm welfare and security -- then he also leaves.

>

>Working with the animals generally takes a lot of time. Often the person

>cannot

>regularly attend the morning program at the temple. Soon, he is regarded

>as

>"fallen." In any case, he generally separates himself socially from the

>main

>temple community.

>

>With regard to this last factor, I think the Ramana Reti community might be

>in a

>better position than many ISKCON communities in the past. Devotees are

>more

>mature and not so quick to criticize someone for the external level of

>their

>spiritual activities. However, it is still very important to make social

>arrangements to help insure that cow protection workers are properly

>integrated,

>welcomed and socially valued in the community. Perhaps they could give

>Bhagavad-gita (or varnasrama) classes once a week. Help them out so they

>can

>take major roles in set-up for festivals and other bond-forming occasions.

>

>All this is to say that whether a cow program succeeds or fails depends to

>a

>very great degree on the happiness of the workers and whether they can feel

>satisfied and can see a future for themselves which allows for them to

>develop

>over time.

>

>Commercial dairy farms do not have to have quite such concern over the

>social

>welfare of their workers. If a worker becomes frustrated and quits, there

>is an

>unlimited stream of immigrant Mexican laborers that can replace him.

>

>For a devotee farm, the situation is different. Generally there is 1)

>insufficient training, 2) insufficient social integration. Generally when

>a cow

>worker quits, it's a crisis.

>

>I'm not sure that the land shortage Derek mentions will necessarily be a

>problem

>if you have a controlled breeding program and can stick faithfully to your

>target herd growth.

>

>The weak link in the operation is that when you have a big labor turnover,

>it is

>extremely common for a new cow person to come in and say, "I've got the

>solution

>to all this -- you just need to breed more cows, increase production and

>expand

>your marketing base." This sounds quite reasonable to unsophisticated

>businessmen in the community -- and they say, "Go ahead!" He then breeds a

>bunch of cows -- beyond the original herd growth target -- and then leaves

>when

>people ask him why he didn't train any of the oxen and why the non-milking

>cows

>are being treated so poorly (didn't have time, because he was too busy

>"developing markets.").

>

>So, don't take the labor issue for granted. If workers aren't

>sociologically

>integrated, and if they don't see an economically secure future for

>themselves

>-- they will leave.

>

>So, labor issues need to be an important focus of your development program.

>Also, you should be subscribing to several professional magazines like

>"Hoard's

>Dairyman" and "Successful Farmer" so you can keep an eye on methods for

>dealing

>with labor issues (just don't get sucked into their whole agribusiness

>perspective). Actually "Successful Farmer" is a free magazine. It's paid

>for

>by advertising -- but it does address useful labor and environmental

>considerations.

>

>Anyway, hope that helps. Do not underestimate the crucial importance of

>getting

>the labor issues right. Cow protection starts with the cowherd.

>

>your servant,

>

>Hare Krsna dasi

>

>billy bob buckwheat wrote:

>

> > Please don't go about it this way... if I must say to make some inpact

>on

> > your thoughts then,

> > I PROMISE you, It will never work.. Even you start some kind of thing in

> > this type of setting and eventualy it will turn in tragedy.. I not

>speaking

> > in terms of just Iskcon past but also logic.. The main problem is you

>will

> > not have the appropriate land after time and herd becomes larger and

>then

> > that makes more need for hands for care which you will need a couple

>dozen

> > intelegent Bhakta's who are fired up and want to spend their whole life

>with

> > you for free or barley anything and then (THEY) would also have to breed

>to

> > keep up with the herd size..

> > If you started your idea in this industrial style you would either

>eventualy

> > start killing off the heard because of finances and would be the same as

>any

> > blood dairy, or the cows would start falling of the edge of the

>continent

> > and would be inside the local shops and stores trying to snag a snickers

>bar

> > or a head of lettuce..

> > I'm saying in a consolodated form, and personaly....

> > never mind the sarcasm..

> > compationatly, Derek-

 

 

 

 

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