new calf

[Guest guest]

Can't really answer your questions but just letting you know someone heard

you. Been quiet here lately.

 

"Indriyesa (das) SS (NJNK - D)" wrote:

 

> Dear members of the cow-conf., please accept my humble obeisances.

> All glories to Srila Prabhupada

>

> Here at Nrsimha Ksetra in the Bavarian Forest/Germany we have 6 cows and 4

> oxen, all quite old, I think the youngest cow is about 9 or 10 years old.

> None of them ever had a calf (!!).

> Since years the milk necessary on the project was bought from the

> neighbouring farmer, which is of course a ridiculous situation...

> Since things are getting quite good here now we think that we can take the

> responsibility to have a new calf in the barn.

> Now my questions are:

>

> - there are two possible candidates among our cows, they are 9 and 11 (or

> 12). They both NEVER had a calf. Is their age and the fact that it would be

> the first pregnancy a problem/risk? And if yes (which I guess), are there

> some suggestions, what to do about?

>

> - The race of these cows is "Deutsches Braunvieh". Is it possible to

> crossbreed with smaller, more resistant races, or will something strange

> come out then? Their is one nice German race which I have in mind, the name

> is "Hinterwaelder". They are used to cold weather (which we have here) and

> quite desease resistant. Actually I think the most important point is to

> have a cow which gives milk for a very long time after having a calf (say at

> least 2 1/2 years)Are there races known for that quality?

>

> -last one for now: Is it very important at which time the calf comes?

> Thank you very much for helping,

> your servant

> indriyesa dasa

[Guest guest]

Indriyesa,

Hare Krsna,

 

>From what I've learned but might not be a cut and dry rule of nature is

that: breeding a cow which has never given birth after a cirtain amount of

years ( maybe based diferent for paticular breeds); will have trouble, or

abort.

Reason: There hips grow a cirtain way after so many years and makes birthing

unfavorable. Say around 7 years and then going up more of a risk year by

year. Say 11 or 12 most would say forget it...

But!.. you never know, with Krsna being God.

 

Just please remember; Its the care for the cows and engagement of the oxen

that makes the sucess of a project.

 

Now a suggestion is to consider getting a heifer or cow or springer from an

iskcon farm thats close to you that could supply such a gift.

If there is no such posibility then consider to buying but try to stay away

from aution. Buy from a reputable farmer and its best if you can have them

-(potentials that you might buy) looked over thoroughly to see that they are

in good health along with the other cows in thier herds.

My suggestion on what to get is only my opinion. I would buy If affordable a

Pedagree cow of solid breed with papers.

And also a breed that is not widly used as an industrial milk breed; for the

breeds like this are manipulated geneticaly and usualy are bred for milk

production only and cause other traits to go down the drain. For instance

'quality Oxen' were once a factor in the breeding process in the good ol

days.

 

Keeping a solid breed is not nessesary but in my opinion makes it easier

because you know what you got, especialy as for temperment.

Many breeds birth at different times also. (days to birthing)

With a pedigree cow you know your getting a healthy cow that if bred with a

simular bull will give you a simular birth and are much less likely to have

the many problems of one from an auction house.

Many diseases come from just the way the cows are kept.

 

If you do buy or get from another Iskcon farm, make sure you quarnteen

them or her for atleast 6 weeks to work out any diseases or foot problems

they might carry as to not spread them to the existing herd.

 

I don't know about the breeds your speaking, but I know the Breed we have

here are in my opinion the best to have as for good milk prodution, butter

fat and good temperment and make great oxen. This is none other than the

Brown Swiss which I'm pretty sure you could access.

One thing to check out though is how they've been bred. ( for milk or all

quality traits.

Europe and the US have long exploited the breeds for milk but ther are still

some places that have kept the good line of cow breeding.

Which will supply you with plenty of good milk provided she is getting

sufficient grains, grasses, salt and most of all love.

 

If you keep milking timely, she will keep supplying milk.. The amount may

change with season and age but milk will come.

We have a mother here, that has been giving milk for 8 years without giving

birth. She is about 16 years old now. She gives atleast 2 gallons a day to

Radha Damodara.

 

2.5 years is nothing, most dairy farmers go aleast 3-4 years watching

production of course.

 

 

Hope this helps somehow..

ys, Derek -GN-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

>- The race of these cows is "Deutsches Braunvieh". Is it possible to

>crossbreed with smaller, more resistant races, or will something strange

>come out then? Their is one nice German race which I have in mind, the name

>is "Hinterwaelder". They are used to cold weather (which we have here) and

>quite desease resistant. Actually I think the most important point is to

>have a cow which gives milk for a very long time after having a calf (say

>at

>least 2 1/2 years)Are there races known for that quality?

>

>-last one for now: Is it very important at which time the calf comes?

>Thank you very much for helping,

>your servant

>indriyesa dasa

 

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[Guest guest]

billy bob buckwheat wrote:

 

> Indriyesa,

> Hare Krsna,

>

> >From what I've learned but might not be a cut and dry rule of nature is

> that: breeding a cow which has never given birth after a cirtain amount of

> years ( maybe based diferent for paticular breeds); will have trouble, or

> abort.

> Reason: There hips grow a cirtain way after so many years and makes birthing

> unfavorable. Say around 7 years and then going up more of a risk year by

> year. Say 11 or 12 most would say forget it...

> But!.. you never know, with Krsna being God.

 

One thing to consider is if looking for another breed anyway, if the sire is

of

a breed smaller than the cow being bred, that makes for an easier birth.

[Guest guest]

<html>

<DIV>

<P><BR>Sorry bud, that wont work.</P>

<P>ys, Derek-</P></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV>>One thing to consider is if looking for another breed anyway, if

the sire is of

<DIV></DIV>>a breed smaller than the cow being bred, that makes for an

easier birth.

<DIV></DIV>>

<DIV></DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a

href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>

[Guest guest]

billy bob buckwheat wrote:

 

> Sorry bud, that wont work.

 

please cite some authority

[Guest guest]

If you had a woman who needed a C-section because her hips were too small to

give birth properly, which does happen; If she was impregnated by a midget

or a race slightly smaller it wouldn't make her birthing any easier, of

course I'm just using my imagination and I'm no authority like I expalained

previously.

from what I understood the hip section grows in a way that is unfavorable to

any birth.

I am though speaking from actual experience with this same situation with

the cows, I was consulting a few vets. But who are they..

I guess the best thing is to just try. If I ever come across any authortive

print I will try to send reference.

The only other authority I can think off hand, would be Balabhadra Prabhu,

Iscowp.

Maybe he knows for sure of this subject or knows of someone.

Many obasencies,

ys, Derek-

Hare Krsna

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> the hip section grows in a way that is unfavorable to

> any birth.

> I am though speaking from actual experience with this same situation with

> the cows, I was consulting a few vets. But who are they..

> I guess the best thing is to just try.

 

Most cattleman take birthing into consideration when cross breeding. If you

breed a larger sire into a smaller breed, you know that birthing has to be

watched closer as there will be more difficult births, and a smaller breed

makes for easier births.

[Guest guest]

Yes Prabhu,

This is correct but with the situation at hand, it has nothing to do with

breeding cows that have been on a normal breeding schedual.

These are cows which have not given birth for 11 -12 years. (55-60 cow

years).

" Cattle men" from what I underestand is a term used for farmers whom use

their herds primarily for meat prodution.

Dairy farmers or cattle men never have cows that exist in their herds for 11

-12 years without giving birth... their cows are refreshened every year.

Neither, ever have any cows that exist for 11 -12 years.

 

This is a special situation where the cows are protected and some times

remain idle from birthing sometimes their whole life's.

This is the problem for the calving.

Other situation could be a show cow.

 

Here on our farm we had 26 (female) cows which only 1 was in the

recomendable area. Not because of her age but because she had recently in

the past 3 years had given birth.

I was trying to use our own cows because many devotees some 25 years ago

went through alot of trouble hand picking around the East coast to collect a

herd of cows that were of very high standard. This is the same family line

with practicaly no health problems and we went through alot of research

trying to find a way to not have to purchase more cows.

BUT, to make a long story short,

we did have to. now we have 28 girls.

There is many other quetions at hand other than just the hips, like does the

cow still go in heat, and the organs of a cow which is 12 years old are 12

years old. They run risk of many, many more problems.

Do the cows have any health problems as of now.. What is the over all

stature of the cow. You have to be a person who knows a little about cows

and calving and then be able to look over the cow which is the subject of

birthing (Which is in Germany) and then make a decision from that

perspective.

This is only the begining..

empregnating is one thing and calving is another.

The advice I gave is pretty rounded. no garenties or promises, just

supplying the facts that are way in the relm of risk of failier.

If one so desires, go ahead and try. What is there to lose? maybe a calf or

maybe a cow or both or neither. You be the gambler.

All I can do is tell you that fire is hot and what I recomend is my opinion

which is supplying a more promising rout to getting a calf and protecting

the existing old cows.

"Don't breed the old ladies and buy another cow, springer or heifer."

Hare Krsna,

your servant, Derek- Gita Nagari- usa

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>

> "Don't breed the old ladies and buy another cow, springer or heifer."

> Hare Krsna,

> your servant, Derek- Gita Nagari- usa

>

> _______________

 

I am not disagreeing with any of your other points. Just saying that if the

decision were to be made to breed under those circumstances, or any other

border line circumstance, smaller calf makes birthing easier. Personally, I

probably wouldn't breed the very old heifers.

[Guest guest]

> "Don't breed the old ladies and buy another cow, springer or heifer."

> Hare Krsna,

> your servant, Derek- Gita Nagari- usa

 

 

So that's a clear statement, thank you.

 

Now supposed we do so, can we keep a new cow together with the old ladies or

will they cause her problems?

ys, Indriyesa das

[Guest guest]

"Indriyesa (das) SS (NJNK - D)" wrote:

 

> > "Don't breed the old ladies and buy another cow, springer or heifer."

> > Hare Krsna,

> > your servant, Derek- Gita Nagari- usa

>

> So that's a clear statement, thank you.

>

> Now supposed we do so, can we keep a new cow together with the old ladies or

> will they cause her problems?

> ys, Indriyesa das

 

Takes a couple of days to work out a new pecking order then usually everything

is fine, unless in close confinement and one of them has horns.

[Guest guest]

Indriyesa,

Hare Krsna,

I mentioned in the first text I wrote to you alot of things about getting

new.

Make sure that you quarnteen the new cow for "atleast 6 weeks" before you

add the cow to the herd as to work out any diseases or foot problems. Then

if you know the condition of the other cows you already have then you know

whether or not its safe from that side. The cows you have now could also be

carrying something and transmit to the new cow; This is the most important

thing about joining the cows..

 

Other than that cows are social animals and would love the new company, of

course she will have to find her position in the herd.

Depending on alot of things, like the position she gets and the age and

size, and how you feed in the winter ( what type of feeder) you should keep

an eye for which position she has. If she is last and you have a tight

situation as for a feeder, then she might not get enough feed and become

week or sick.

If she is a milker or you plan to milk her you have to make sure she gets

her days worth of feed which depending on her age and size will be 40 - 75

lbs. of dry matter or hay including grains. When feeding grains for milkers

you should give her 1 pound of grains for every 4 pounds of milk she

produces.

Cows will also compete for the water trough and she must get plenty of water

and salt or she will become dehydrated and her prodution will go down and

she could become sick.

also whatch for mastitis.

 

If shes a youngin you also want her to get sufficiant food to grow nice and

healthy and you can be more giving with the grains.

 

Well anyway there is so much to consider and alot is the same but also

different for it depends on what you get.

It would be easier to say if I knew what you got.

Make sure you bring someone, a friendly farmer or family member or yourself,

that may know what to look for when you go shopping.

 

hope this helps, and hope you have read the other text I wrote about this

new calf or cow.

Hare Krsna,

ys, Derek- -GN-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>Now supposed we do so, can we keep a new cow together with the old ladies

>or

>will they cause her problems?

>ys, Indriyesa das

 

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