Guest guest Posted November 22, 1999 Report Share Posted November 22, 1999 .. Quite frankly some of the horror stories Niscala Prabhu potrays could come from any farm because when a cow goes down in a bog, just how do you propose getting him to the barn. In a cow sling, not dragged up, and not in a front end of a tractor when she has a broken hip The point I was making however is that normally a non-devotee cow program versus an Iskcon farm program. The remark about I may kill my cows but I don't starve them reflects the karmi mentality. If they are weak simply kill them. If you don't have enough pasture sell a bunch for slaughter and then fertilize. Iam not supporting this karmi mentality, but just showing there's not much difference between slaughter and starvation, both are condemned. It is important to note the special arrangement in regards to cow protection in Iskcon. We have unique problems and sometimes people may not be understanding of these. First the big farms simply may be overloaded with responsibilites and therefore may just able to provide the basics. Then why are adopt-a-cow funds used for other purposes For the mother earth type this may seem callous. However even in the most difficult times those who are devoted to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna will always understand that this leiving entities deserve the best care we can give them but if we can't give them the best that still doesn't mean that it is better to kill them. I have seen many cows leave their bodies in the dhama. It isn't so bad if they have lived a nice life in association of devotees. I have seen cows with huge lumps on their side live for many years with this. The vets said just put them down. OK, at least you got a vet out. But get it diagnosed what it is by him, then try alternative medicine. The whole world is full of disease, it doesn't just go away because they are cows. If you have one or two then probably no disease. But try 200 then see what you see. Pink eye,cancer etc. That's why we came to the conclusion on this conference that communal herds should be phased out. Cows should be given to qualified vaisyas, who guarantee them lifetime protection. Being dependent on them, is a good assurance of this. However the cow has a calf and then the calf has a calf. So where eo they all go. It would compound the problem at this point. We have a program now and probably most big farms where breeding is stricly regulated. Give each householder a cow and they will want to breed them... How much milk does one family require for SUSTENANCE? One is more than sufficient, to milk for 4 years, the first of which there should be excess to give to temple, or barter for grains etc. .... Otherwise they won't have a use. You are wrong. There are SO many uses for cow dung, it is gold mine prabhu!!! What about father ox??? So it will be a long time before I would want to give cows out because they stand a much better chance of making it under the strict guideline of the temple than depending on the individuals. Well we have seen where "the strict guideline of the temple" got the numerous abused animals here...and at Murari Sevaka...and...and.................. I know this will change in the Vedic culture setting but you and I won't be around then at least in these bodies. It just won't happen for a long time. Well if we all have this attitude it won't. It will happen when there is need of oxen. When there are prototypes functioning. When someone can see the benifit. That has to be our goals. You are right there. Thanks. YS Niscala WWW: Jiva Goswami (Dasa) SDG (Newnansville FL - USA) <JivaGo (AT) FDT (DOT) Net> COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se> Thursday, November 18, 1999 6:52 PM History of cow abuse in ISKCON >[Text 2790561 from COM] > >On 18 Nov 1999, Noelene Hawkins wrote: > >>Dwibhuja Prabhu wrote: >> >> >>Again not to sound to redundant, but could you please show me where in this >>planet where cows are being maintained up to the standard you find in >>ISKCON. >> > >I don't know precisely what you mean by the "standard you find in ISKCON". >I'll assume you mean a standard of humane treatment wherein the cows/ox/bulls >can lead a contented life with adequate food, shelter and medical care, free >from abuse and neglect from any source. Even better of course would be to also >perform meaningful service to society: milk, power, fertilizer, progeny, and >companionship. I'm sure someone else can and has presented a more substantial >standard than that, but it is somewhere in the ballpark. > >So for examples of cows being maintained up to at least the first portion, >please visit Alachua, Florida. There are dedicated, experienced devotees >tending to their care and the effect is obvious. A first class operation, at >least as I can see. > >A second example is Gita Nagari in Port Royal, PA. It may not quite be a >poster child for perfection in cow protection just yet, but if one wants an >example of hopelessness turned to hopefulness, Gita Nagari is your place. > >There are devotees who have worked with the cows for upwards of five years. >There is Mother Kaulini of course who has been with Radha-Damodara forever. >The cows stay out all year, but are Brown-Swiss and they have proper shelter >and food. The cow program is reasonably funded (Adopt-a-Cow) and the >herds-persons are well regarded and supported in the community. > >The present situation and the history is far more complex than in Alachua. The >present management and the bulk of the present devotee population inherited a >huge herd from their predecessors. Ridiculous breeding practices in the 80's >created a large herd of basically big pets. Nice pets, but a lot of them. > >Compounding that is the history of poverty and personal strife amongst the >devotees and the resulting degradation and dismantling of the farm's >buildings, equipment and soul. The late 80's and early 90's were not good for >Gita Nagari. > >If your mental picture of Gita Nagari is circa 1985, you will be dismayed to >see it today. If your picture is circa 1992-93, 1999 looks like a paradise. >Real devotees, real morning program, real Deity worship, a real school and >real cow protection. > >Of course, if you know where to look, you can find all the tombstones in the >graveyard of Failed Ambitions. A useless ox power saw out back, with variou s >even more useless prototypes in the grass nearby. Or if you ask what that >concrete thing-a-ma-jig over there is, someone will say "Oh yeah, that was So >and SO dasa. He was trying to Such and Such, but then Whatever, Whatever." The >place is full of them. If you want a good laugh, check out the old Gita Nagari >Master Plan. Which one of the 4 or 5? Take your pick. > >Anyway, we can see what we want to see. > >In fact, rather than philosophizing how it all should be done and wallowing in >the horror of cows in ISKCON, (both real and imagined) please call Gita Nagari >and arrange to visit for a week or more. The number is 717 527-4101. Ask for >M. Mangal Artika dd, M Kaulini, or Ekavira das. Bring your tools and bring >your wallet or purse. Winter's coming and I'm sure they need lots of help. >Leave your computer behind, you won't need it. Fix some fences and some roofs. >Feed the cows and the devotees. Send some cash if you can't go. I think they >need a decent 4 wheel drive pick-up with a plow. They can put farm plates on >it so it need not be perfect. > >YS > >Jiva Goswami dasa > Reply Reply All ForwardDeletePreviousNextClose (Move to Selected Folder)InboxSent MessagesDraftsTrash Can Inbox Compose Addresses Folders Options Help Get notified when you have new Hotmail or when your friends are on-line. Send instant messages. Click here to get your FREE download of MSN Messenger Service! Buy Books | Buy Music | Cars | Clothes | Download Music | Entertainment Free Games | Free Home Pages | PC Downloads | Travel Agent | Yellow Pages | More... Search the web: © 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. 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