Communal or private ownership

[Guest guest]

even Mother Hare Krishna is so busy shooting down the ISKCON projects

 

....Well please don't shoot down her. It was by reading her "Srila

Prabhupada's Varnasrama Mission" I

changed my life to cow-based economy (though I was not able to do it for

long, only

due to the management being opposed). Anyway I changed my perspective-

totally! It

is a wonderfully researched and well-thought out work, and extremely potent.

Please

read this and try to appreciate that her criticism of certain ISKCON farms

is just to

point out what they are lacking and how they can better function for the

cause of cow

protection, and take better care of their cows. All desirable things.

 

Your other

points:

So you say well you should

not be communal in your surrender, but everything should be owned by Grhasta

and I say how do you propose to do that with cow protection.

 

As it is said

"possession turns dust into gold". We are conditioned souls and tend to see

things in

terms of "I" and "mine". Even as devotees. Proof is given back in the days

of the

communal cars. We should have seen them as Krsna's and taken really good

care of

them but instead no one put oil or water in them and they "died". This

happened many

times.However if you own a car and are dependent on it to earn your

livelihood, would

you put in oil or water? You bet you would! So when we have grhastas who are

using

their own cows and oxen to produce their requirements for living, you can

bet you can

kiss the neglect and abuse a sweet good-bye. It'll be taught in the ancient

history

courses in our future gurukulas, how we used to ape the dairy farms by

milking for

profit, then neglecting them to death, because we never bothered to learn

the lessons

Srila Prabhupada taught us, that cow and ox is valuable right up to and

after the point

of natural death.

 

On one hand you are crying the GBC has to

make sure that cows are being protected and on the other you are saying they

should be controlled by Grhasta.

 

Both can and should happen. The GBC's

responsibility as given by Srila Prabhupada is to make sure spiritual

standards in our

zones are maintained. That includes standards for cow protection! If the

grhasta who

owns cows on ISKCON land does abuse them, then the GBC should step in and

insist

they stop their nefarious activities or do them somewhere else. If they are

on their own

land and choose to abuse cows, we can only preach to them, and pray to

Krsna: the

reaction is on their head if they continue. But, it is not as likely to

happen if each

devotee is made aware of the special position of the cow and is also

dependent on

them. Aloving relationship is most likely.

 

Please explain one example of where there

is any Grhasta taking care of 150 cows by himself.

 

The idea is that he keeps as many as

he needs to grow his necessities. They are his personal possessions. They

can graze

communally, with others cows, and be separated for milking or work. The

grhasta

would have limits to keep on breeding, but that is no problem, because each

cow can

produce milk for 3-4 years. Only one is needed to be milking at any time.

And the

vedic system is that the land is supplied free if produce is given. So when

there is a

bumper crop, or when the cow is producing excess, that is the payment.

Vedically it is

around 25%. On our farms this excess would be used in the diety worship, or

in

supplying produce to the city temples and restaurants.

 

Please just give

me your vision of how to protect comws without communal cooperation.

 

Its not my

vision but the system that has been working from time immemmorial ys,

niscala

 

____

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[Guest guest]

Again not to sound to redundant, but could you please show me where in this

planet where cows are being maintained up to the standard you find in

ISKCON. We recently had a vet come to look at our cows because some people

said they saw skinny oxen in a field. We knew we were doing everything

right to the best of our knowledge but in order to show that we cared about

others opinions the temple president, Yogindra Vandana brought out a vet.

He looked at the cows and said this is the first time he had seen old cows.

He explained that as they get older their teeth get shorter and they

naturally get thinner. So this is done in a temple communal atmosphere. So

your proposal sounds good on paper in relationship to the gold philosophy

but practically could you show me where it is happening now. And if you

propose to give a postdated check, could you show me how this transition

could take place. I mean this not challengingly, but in an honest effort to

see how one can hope to use this philosophy to solve the problems now

existing in strengthening our cow projects around the world.

I propose we should treat cow protection as we do diety worship. It can

go on on small scale in home industry of course, but does that mean we don't

have temple dieties which are the main object of all of our worship and

contributions. This has to be seen otherwise everyone will continue to

neglect the temple cow project. Just saying well if it was privatized it

would work. This communism, just see.

So this is my argument. At a time when we need cooperation and

contributions to cow protection, we are getting some philosophical reply

which this will be the problem until we develop a different system. I say

the problem happened not because of the system but because the GBC was not

aware of His or Her responsibility to make sure that a snake didn't take

over a ISKCON project. That is the responsibility of GBC. To check and

make sure management is in place. They don't have to go and look at the

cows etc, but they are supossed to have a temple leader whom they trust and

make sure they are satisifying the devotees. In the case of Murari the

devotees were leaving in droves and no higher level managers even gave it an

honest look see. Thius this was the fault, not that the system has to be

changed. Just that we have to do our part. Now it has been rectified at

Murari because I hear that HH Bir Krishna Maharaj has taken on an assistant.

This is HH Prthu Prabhu. So this is the way the system can work. Not throw

it out. This is my point and if you understand what it takes to take care

of large herds of cows such as we have here at New Talavan, then you know

that it requires lots of cooperation,devotion,contibutions from all classes,

etc. So this sort of sounds like what Srila Prabhupada said it would take

for this mission to be successful.

It is proper criticism to say that the cows were overbred, but that has

long ago been addressed adn thus now we have stopped overbreeding, we are

now trying to find ways to maintain our herds nicely and protect them.

Afterall if we protect a hundred cows and they all live a long and peaceful

life, isn't that better than just one soul. That is if you beleive that

these animals benifit by serving Krishna. Of course the Oxen should be

utilized. So that is our dilema how to use the oxen. Any suggestions, or

do you think we should just ggo on with the down with communism mantra while

we are rying to inspire somebody, anybody to help some with Krishna's cows.

Maybe just rake a little hay or give some donation so we can pay someone to

help. So that is so much needed, practical help for at least 30 years then

maybe some grhastas will have developed. Until then we better just keep

being nice to to those souls who do it for nothing except maybe eternal

bliss and the chance to please their Spritual Master by their service. I

say serving Srila Prabhuada's lotus feet turns everything to Gold.

 

YS

Dvibhuja Das

 

Noelene Hawkins <niscala99 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>

COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

Monday, November 15, 1999 5:30 PM

Communal or private ownership

 

 

>[Text 2781863 from COM]

>

>even Mother Hare Krishna is so busy shooting down the ISKCON projects

>

>...Well please don't shoot down her. It was by reading her "Srila

>Prabhupada's Varnasrama Mission" I

>changed my life to cow-based economy (though I was not able to do it for

>long, only

>due to the management being opposed). Anyway I changed my perspective-

>totally! It

>is a wonderfully researched and well-thought out work, and extremely

potent.

>Please

>read this and try to appreciate that her criticism of certain ISKCON farms

>is just to

>point out what they are lacking and how they can better function for the

>cause of cow

>protection, and take better care of their cows. All desirable things.

>

>Your other

>points:

>So you say well you should

>not be communal in your surrender, but everything should be owned by

Grhasta

>and I say how do you propose to do that with cow protection.

>

>As it is said

>"possession turns dust into gold". We are conditioned souls and tend to see

>things in

>terms of "I" and "mine". Even as devotees. Proof is given back in the days

>of the

>communal cars. We should have seen them as Krsna's and taken really good

>care of

>them but instead no one put oil or water in them and they "died". This

>happened many

>times.However if you own a car and are dependent on it to earn your

>livelihood, would

>you put in oil or water? You bet you would! So when we have grhastas who

are

>using

>their own cows and oxen to produce their requirements for living, you can

>bet you can

>kiss the neglect and abuse a sweet good-bye. It'll be taught in the ancient

>history

>courses in our future gurukulas, how we used to ape the dairy farms by

>milking for

>profit, then neglecting them to death, because we never bothered to learn

>the lessons

>Srila Prabhupada taught us, that cow and ox is valuable right up to and

>after the point

>of natural death.

>

>On one hand you are crying the GBC has to

>make sure that cows are being protected and on the other you are saying

they

>should be controlled by Grhasta.

>

>Both can and should happen. The GBC's

>responsibility as given by Srila Prabhupada is to make sure spiritual

>standards in our

>zones are maintained. That includes standards for cow protection! If the

>grhasta who

>owns cows on ISKCON land does abuse them, then the GBC should step in and

>insist

>they stop their nefarious activities or do them somewhere else. If they are

>on their own

>land and choose to abuse cows, we can only preach to them, and pray to

>Krsna: the

>reaction is on their head if they continue. But, it is not as likely to

>happen if each

>devotee is made aware of the special position of the cow and is also

>dependent on

>them. Aloving relationship is most likely.

>

>Please explain one example of where there

>is any Grhasta taking care of 150 cows by himself.

>

>The idea is that he keeps as many as

>he needs to grow his necessities. They are his personal possessions. They

>can graze

>communally, with others cows, and be separated for milking or work. The

>grhasta

>would have limits to keep on breeding, but that is no problem, because each

>cow can

>produce milk for 3-4 years. Only one is needed to be milking at any time.

>And the

>vedic system is that the land is supplied free if produce is given. So when

>there is a

>bumper crop, or when the cow is producing excess, that is the payment.

>Vedically it is

>around 25%. On our farms this excess would be used in the diety worship, or

>in

>supplying produce to the city temples and restaurants.

>

>Please just give

>me your vision of how to protect comws without communal cooperation.

>

>Its not my

>vision but the system that has been working from time immemmorial ys,

>niscala

>

>____

>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com