Machines

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhus, We have here one devotee, Gopinatha Acarya, whom some of you

may know...he practised self-sufficiency for 10 years at New Govardhana and

would like to make a few comments which you may find helpful. He's not

connected, so its going through me. I sent it off once before a few months

ago and there was a lot of good feedback. One senior devotee recently

brought it up again so I thought it could be of help to someone. Gopinath

Acharya Prabhu was very upset that I hadn't included the full quotes from

Srila Prabhupada, which, he said, made the letter ludicrous,and recently,

while he was working on researching the conversations books he came across

it on a floppy disc I had typed it up on, and corrected it. Because he

rarely writes anything, but when he does, he does; so here we have the

version with the appropriate quotes from Srila Prabhupada, at least. However

it's twelve pages long, so to save internet time I suggest printing it out

rather than reading it on site. Gopinatha Acharya Prabhu begs apology for

cluttering up your website, but on the basis of the instruction of Srila

Prabhupada (reproduced in full at the end for added meditation and

context):"...If we try, many men will be saved...write very elaborately how

to do this" he feels he should bother us with it. Some of the best quotes

are included, so please don't think it's old hat and pass it by: PRINT IT

OUT -it's the essence of a lot of blood sweat and tears! YS, Niscala.

Dear Prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Regarding the discussion about gobar gas, one of the only references I came

across in Srila Prabhupada's conversations regarding gas is the one below(

there are others; Prabhupada wasn't dead against it though not really

recommending it):

761226rc.bombay Vol 28 P.105:Indian man: So can I know the reason why you

are restraining the use of gobar gas now. I could not understand actual

technical difficulty. Is there any difficulty?

Prabhupada: No, we can utilize the gobar in different way.

Indian man: No, but gobar gas is not good, that's why...

Prabhupada: No, no, not good. But we have to arrange for this plant,

generate gas. So why not direct?

Indian man: No, but the fuel is achieved, but the fertilizer is lost. Gobar,

there are two elements. One is a methane gas and one is fertilizer. If you

burn it you are burning the fertilizer which is very, very important, and

very, very useful against the fuel that we get.

Prabhupada: No, that ash is very good.

Indian man: No ash is not the full fertilizer. It is only partial. 10% of

the fertilizer becomes ash. The organic matter is burned with great loss to

the society and the earth.

Prabhupada: But in our Mayapura, that plant, we spent so much, it has not

become successful.

Indian man: No that is mechanical fault. Just like electricity now it has

failed. Now sir, we should not stop utilizing electricity.

Prabhupada: No, any machine, that defect will be there.

Indian man: But that we have been working for twenty years in Ahmedabad.

Everybody is very happy there, and they're actually making money out of it.

The fertilizer that is there is about four times what is normally achieved.

So good maintenance are required for any...

Prabhupada: (sneezes loud) I have no objection, but I've got experience. In

Mayapura it is failure.

Indian man (2): Sometimes we get a defective machine. I purchased one for

my girl's house. I've got a number of about 30. But one was rejected but...

Indian man: Either defective machine or defective maintenance.

Prabhupada: Maybe. But the difficulty is there. (sneezes) (pause)

 

Srila Prabhupada is pointing out the defect of machine.

Its my practical experience after struggling with half-baked

self-sufficiency for years, that practically any machine, even though it may

seem to be helpful, is actually a hindrance. It is only helpful to

"progress" towards a better machine, because the actual intent is to avoid

the needful, try to produce more than needed, and replace someone's labour.

Thats why every machine is replaced by another: horses replaced bulls,

tractors replaced horses, etc.

We need an easily sustainable and maintenance-free system which we can show

to everyone that's practical, that's right, best in the long run, and easy

right here and now.

Any machine is subject to breakdown and we are at the mercy of someone else

and/or another machine to fix or replace parts and thus we're always in

anxiety. Plus, that's not the example we want to preach, so where's the

nectar? After all, we're going through all this because the world is crying

out for the right alternative.

Let me give a few examples from my own years of experience, which may save

others years of wasted time.

The first crop of wheat we grew with the bulls was in 1988 or 1989. After

getting into the nectar of plowing with the bulls, acre after acre, the only

practical thing to plant was grain. After watching it grow for a few months,

we were waiting for some inspiration from Krsna how to harvest it, but

eventually opted out to hire the local seed merchant's harvester for the

one-off cost of $200 for about 3 acres.

Then, after having it sit in bags through the summer, waiting for some

inspiration how to grind it up, the weevils ate the lot. Never mind.

Next year we plowed and planted another few acres and had in the back of the

mind to get a horse-drawn harvester, which sounded great but we didn't know

what it was, or what it would take to pull it. Anyway, that didn't come

through, and we resigned ourselves to poop out and hire the harvester again,

when Bhakta Mick( who, inspired by the working of bullocks at New

Govardhana, donated his 40 acre farm at that time), pushed us into

surrender, by heading out into the paddock with a sickle. So a few of us got

out there with sickles. We cut it, tied it with string, put it on carts and

took it up the hill to the marble temple room with glass windows/walls and

we hand-threshed them against the backs of benches, swept up the grain, hand

winnowed it in plastic bowls and took the straw up to Bhakta Bill's

permaculture garden. This went on for about a week or more and we ended up

with 1-1/2- 44 gallon (200 litre) drums of it. We had only harvested about

1/3 to 1/2 of it, when for various reasons I left and went to India for

about a year.

Meanwhile, the devotees weren't too keen on using it, because the

inexperienced helpers had left some small clods of dirt in the grain from

some of the roots of the wheat, which had not been properly cut, but pulled

out. So I don't know how much was used.(Of course,it's not a problem to pick

out a few bits of straw and clods from a bowl of grain, but our system of

deity worship and temple management is so far removed from reality that we'd

rather throw it all away and spend good money to offer the store bought

stuff). We had a "Little Ark" vertical hand-grinder, converted to use with a

washing machine motor which used to overheat and that didn't help inspire

anyone to grind it up.

The next time I didn't plant, but Lagudi did, and although he had done it

just to fill up his paddock, we agreed to cut it with a newly acquired

reaper and binder ($1,500 all up, from the back of whoop whoop: Walla Walla,

1,500 kms away *comment by Niscala: whoop whoop is Australian for remote

place, the oo is short as in "look"). It was only about 1/4 of an acre, and

I hand threshed most of it in the paddock before some rain fell - about 1/4

44 gallon drum. The binder cuts and binds the standing crop and we pulled it

with two good, strong bulls, but they found it tough going and we had to

stop often. Many times the cutting bar would jam up, and we had to stop to

clear it. Later we pulled it with 4 bulls. It did a marvellous job, but I

often wondered it would be easier in the long run to just get stuck into it

and cut it by hand.("Binders" were smashed in the early days by gangs of

roving scythers who were put out of work by them).

We lost one of the fingers from the cutting bar, which didn't help( found it

again years later). The conveyor belts shrink when they get wet, so you

can't afford to leave the machine out in the weather overnight, etc., etc.

The knotting mechanism is also extremely temperamental, and as a point of

interest, if you ever have such a machine, oil or grease the knotting

mechanism before you put it away for the next year so that it doesn't rust,

as its very hard to get at to polish with emery paper. Otherwise the machine

breaks the twine and spits out a loose unbound mess.

But what to do with the sheaves?

So, for one whole year I worked on getting a horse-drawn harvester, which I

set up as a stationary thresher, with two bulls walking around a horse-gear,

which by way of shafts and universal joints, ran the threshing drum at 1000

plus rpm.(I had the opportunity to get a belt drive thresher, the largest

model ever made, in mint condition for four hundred dollars delivered: worth

thousands as a museum piece alone. I chose not to get it as the sheaves have

to be thrown in up the top from a haystack. You can see the traps and

temptations that can waylay us if we don't try to understand the principle,

the goal, and stick as tightly as possible to Srila Prabhupada's

instructions. The thresher was left to deteriorate in the man's paddock:

better that than ruin our life and all chance of a successful vedic farming

community: these machines have lured people away from engaging the bulls and

opened the way to the frantic frenzied path of greed and chaos which we find

the world in today. Prospective vaisyas and sudras beware!).

The front cutting mechanism was detached, and the drum exposed with the idea

of feeding in the sheaves or holding in the sheaf, ears first, to beat off

the grain. The rest of the mechanism would winnow clean the grain and

theoretically we could bag it at the other end. Anyway the drum of course is

not designed to handle so much straw, since harvesters just cut the top off

the crop. The binder cuts sheaves in such a way, that although all the ends

are all one way, the ears are all up and down inside, so you can't beat off

the ears, but have to thresh the whole sheaf.

The drum would jam up and the "horse" gear broke free of its footing. I

always had a sneaking suspicion that all this rigmarole was going to be

useless, because although one might get some compliments, engineering-wise

or museum-wise, ( one mataji was kind enough to dash the ego by calling it

an ugly dinosaur), who on earth was going to go to all this trouble to try

to get one of these old machines? Is that what we want to show anyway? If

the bulls are walking around and around anyway, why not just try walking on

top of the crop as they do in India? I never believed it would work, but

finally surrendered to try it.(We can't be attached to our ideas, no matter

how long we have wasted developing them, how determined we are to prove

them, how silly we think we'll look giving up our grandiose respectable

farmer profile for a peasant one, or how silly we'll look after gone down

the wrong track for such a long time: better to cut our losses now, and that

goes for anyone who realizes they've missed out all these years-better late

than never). I laid out some tarpaulins on top of the bitumen in the bottom

carpark around a solitary tree (could well be a post). I tied a rope from

the top of the bow and end of the yoke to the tree in such a way that the

two bulls could walk around the tree on top of the crop (fenugreek) and in

not much more than 2 hours all the seed had been threshed out by their feet

and in conjunction with a hand-cranked winnower, had 50 kg of pure, clean

fenugreek seed.

Wow! What a breakthrough! What a relief! What fun! Amazing! It really works

and works best! The perfect procedure, for the small self-sufficient devotee

farmer- vaisya, to get it all over and done with, with the minimum of fuss,

expense, anxiety...

Later, we used to thresh on top of ten assorted size tarpaulins overlapping

each other. After rearranging the support poles in the big barn I lived in,

the final procedure was to cut the crop with a sickle, put it unbound on a

tarp, drag it out of the paddock with a pair of bulls, and walk two or four

in tandem (S.B. recommends three abreast) on top of the crop on the concrete

floor.

Vaikuntha! No worries about the hot sun, sudden thunderstorms, etc., etc. Of

course, I can't explain all the intricacies here (though it may seem I have)

and there are plenty more considerations varnasrama wise i.e. distribution

of the grain, proprietorship, etc., which have not been proven or sorted

out yet. [A major problem is our attachment to our designations and

resistance to what we consider as humbling service which we don't yet

realize is the only solution, the only happiness, the only way to make these

farms work, and the only future hope for ISKCON and the world. The more we

resist, the more we actually frustrate our and everyone else's progress.(If

you think that that's just a little too "over the top", please be patient

and read just some of the innumerable statements His Divine Grace has made

about this which we have included at the end of this paper. If that's still

not convincing enough feel free to read the conversations books, they are

loaded with more arguments, over and over again)].

The point I'm trying to make out of all this is that we can philosophize

about a lot of things for years, but there are many hidden traps to waylay

us if we deviate an inch or become overintelligent and think we have a

better way of doing something. The process is one complete picture, and any

different process or factor we introduce throws everything out of whack and

could spin us out on a tangent for years.

(I must admit though, that of all the machines, the hand-cranked winnower

was pretty handy. Of course expert Indian or trained up matajis to winnow

would solve that problem).

Just another case in point, if you're prepared to read on.

For years, I was thinking how to grind the grain with the bulls. (There is a

reference somewhere to "smashing" grain with the bulls). I even had a mill

lined up with 4 foot diameter eight inch thick stones for $5,000 (cheap!),

5,000 kms away! (All for a few chapatties, mind you). After spending a good

part of my life researching how to dress, balance and set stones, I nearly

lost track again...(not that I'm not lost now)...

Luckily, I found this reference in the conversations books:

770215ed.mayapur, Vol 31, P.21: "No, there is no need of ox, individually,

small grinding- capki (chaki), and in the morning they chant Hare Krsna and

grind (sings) Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna..."

Someone even gave me a new hand-grinder ($260) but STILL I was attached to

the idea of avoiding the "hard work" of hand-grinding and went ahead with

grandiose ideas of converting car diffs into bull gears, casting stones from

cement ect.:(classic case of foolish active).

It wasn't until I actually tried the hand grinder and saw how easy it was to

grind up enough flour for 10 or 20 chapatties that I never looked back. Why

take one or more hours to catch and harness the bulls to grind up the grain

(which is so precious), which is going to be stale the next day, and for

whom? Every family grinds their own and invites a few guests to dinner.

Vedic lifestyle means simple, do-it-yourself, low maintenance, save time (in

the long and short run): take personal responsibility for yourself, family,

cows, and sadhus, brahmacaris, etc.

BIG bhoga, Sunday feast, BIG temple programs means (at least right now 'till

we're up and running- beyond self-sufficiency, all trained up in the varnas,

busting at the seams with excess produce, bulls all engaged and protected

and men all engaged)...in reality, buying bhoga as Srila Prabhupada

suggested- as for the Indian farming projects, until such times as the

locals participate.

But I guarantee that any devotee who gets it together to train bulls, plow,

plant and harvest, is going to call it quits when he's produced enough, and

use the saved time for chanting, reading, etc.(forget about bakeries!)

Now, what to do with the flour for 10 or 20 chapatties? Are we going to set

up a biogas digester? No way. Pick up a few cow pats regularly, from around

the house, throw them on the wall, pick them up when they fall off dry, put

them in a tin bucket stove, shove some straw from the corner left over from

the harvest underneath as tinder, light it up and boil the milk you've just

milked, then set about cooking lunch, as Yasodamayi did:760803r2.paris Vol25

P.97: Bhagavan: The peas were good last night?

Prabhupada: Very good, but I could not digest them. That is my fault, but,

oh, it was so nice palatable. Chick peas, chick peas, grow fresh. Eat very

nicely, keep strong, drink milk, chant Hare Krsna. Bas. Don't depend on this

outside work and then gradually become debauch, thief, rogues, prostitutes.

Is that civilization? They cannot imagine that the modern civilization can

go without all these things. Do they not? Slaughterhouse, brothel, cheating,

diplomacy, roguery, drinking--without this, no civilization. We are quite

opposed. We want to show it is possible, yes. You can stop all this nonsense

and still you go on as a perfect civilized man. With character, knowledge,

satisfaction, everything. They are trying to gather knowledge by sending so

many machines up to date. We have already got. We say you cannot go there,

you are simply wasting your time. We have got so much knowledge. No, you can

attempt, just like a monkey, that's all right. But our verdict is already

there. You cannot go there. Ten years before I said this moon excursion is

simply childish and waste of money in my Easy Journey to Other Planets. I am

not a scientist, but how I dared to say? Because I know, I have got full

knowledge. That is the difference. Without becoming scientist, we can give

our verdict. Veda-pramanam. (Prabhupada is eating) Umm, better give this

fresh fruit. Don't bring all rotten. In the market you cannot get fresh. All

three hundred years old. Anything fresh, that is full of vitamin. Grow

fresh, take fresh. In India there is no system to purchase

three-hundred-years-old bread and eat. It must be freshly made. Wife is

preparing in the simple oven, husband is eating, children are eating. You

know Yasodamayi calling Krsna? "Come back! Your father is waiting!" You

remember this? That is Indian system. The father and the children, they sit

down, mother will bring fresh dahl, rice and capatti, and distribute, and

they eat. We used to do that. Along with father we shall sit down for

eating, separately. There was no need of table--on the ground. And mother

will distribute, cook. No servant; mother personally, wife personally.

Bhagavan: In the Krsna book you describe that in Krsna's palace there were

so many beautiful maidservants, but Rukmini chose to fan Krsna personally.

Prabhupada: Yes. Still, in Indian family system, when the husband comes

from office, the wife takes care immediately. Even in these days. That is,

at least, a manifestation of faithfulness.

 

In this way we have to keep it simple. What to do with the left over ash?

Use it for cleaning pots, making soap, or sprinkle it around your fruit

trees or vegies.

But of course, the cows and bulls are not always around so you only use some

of their dung. If you want to compost it, great. Another suggestion is to

hang two 1/2 full 40 kg feed bags of fresh manure on either side of a piece

of wood on top of an open 44 gallon drum of water (hang them in the water)

for a few weeks and give each plant 1/2 litre to a litre of the liquid

fertilizer. This avoids the weed seeds from using the fresh dung straight.

My personal experience was to pick the best soil handy for growing

vegetables, and don't worry about fertilizer. Certain vegetables grow best

and stick to them. If you plant them at the right time you don't need to

water them. As Srila Prabhupada said, if you grow one crop a year, the soil

won't deplete.

As for nitrogen, the plants get it from the atmosphere, and if we put it

into the soil, the plants will take it at the expense of trace elements.

Growing a crop of dahl [say, dun field peas, which give yellow split peas

when split, (and that took years to figure out how to do)] still leaves a

net increase of nitrogen in the soil anyway and a crop of wheat next will

benefit: why turn them in as the silly karmis do?

Back to the biogas digester, I also spent long hours thinking about it, but

when the temple wanted to get one together, I envisaged herds of cows and

bulls being shunted around just for the dung supply at the expense of

agricultural activity (which is foremost) and without cooperating with the

cowherds and that department, I saw it as detrimental. It was sneaking back

to centralization which works against the natural situation of

self-independent vaisyas who only can protect the cows and bulls, and whilst

it may have been o.k. for an in-between situation of temple organization it

just doesn't help the individual independence needed to provide the natural

economic base to support it all, which is what we need to get up and running

now.

If people want to live life artificially, let them live it somewhere else

out of the way.

We shouldn't try to use the bulls and cows to support our ugra karma.

First do agriculture with the bulls, and if after being fully satisfied with

your agricultural produce, you want to embark on extracurricular projects

such as sawing lumber for houses, pumping megalitres of water for housing

developments, grinding thousands of kilos of precious grain for fly-by-night

non-varnasramites(i.e. those who don't want to be trained up, which is the

present situation on our farms: see the final quote 750801rc.no), driving

tourists in bullock carts for a few miserly dollars, etc.,etc., well and

good. But FIRST please produce your food and that of the animals. I

guarantee that after that, you'll be fully satisfied and forget all other

foolish schemes.

Once again, the priority is to produce your own food. This will solve all

the problems. All will become crystal clear, and all doubts, hallucinations,

speculations and worries will disappear. They are all nightmares to haunt us

and distract us from the real goal: happy cows and bulls, happy healthy

devotees-freed from anarthas- with lots of spare time for chanting, dancing

and developing love of Godhead and going back home...

Of course, this means varnasrama, trained up and cooperating leaders

etc.,etc.

Anyway, no offence intended. Please forgive any aparadhas...

There is a good case for humus and organic matter, but if all this concern

hampers us from achieving the end result, better not to worry about it.

Unless its convenient, it just won't work. No one will do it, and we'll be

discouraged. We don't want to spend too much time languishing indefinitely,

trying to sort out this varnasrama. We have to save ourself first, in order

to be strong enough to help others.

We have to get right to the core of it: grains, dahl, milk, sugar, vegies,

then cloth, oil, simple dwelling and finally, the least of our problems:

soap. Everything Srila Prabhupada said was right. Do it first and worry

about the fine tuning later- it just may not matter.

Aside from the cloth and oil, and clay tiles for roofing, we've pretty much

got experience of whatever else. We need a varnasrama college; one farm

"sacrificed" for simple living. I suggest New Govardhana. Anyone want to

support this? Otherwise, I'm not familiar with any other climate or region

agriculturally. It's now or never. All of our problems can be traced to lack

of implementation of varnasrama: As Srila Prabhupada pointed out to

Ramesvara prabhu: 770121r2.bhu: P.335 Vol 29:

"We should be satisfied by our food, by our cloth, by our milk. That's all.

Let the whole world go to hell. We don't care. If you want to save yourself

also, you do this... If you want artificial life, city life, and hellish

life, you do. but we shall live like this. This is the ideal life..."

"We keep the ideal style of life. You learn and do it. I am not encroaching

upon your independence, but if you want to be happy, you follow. This is our

process. Apani acari prabhu jivera siksaya. You be happy, very ideally, and

people will learn. But this can be possible only on the basis of Krsna

consciousness. If you make minus Krsna consciousness this thing, it will not

be possible. Then it will not be possible. All these scheme will be

successful only if there is Krsna consciousness".

and to Hamsaduta prabhu: 771008r2.vrn: Vol 35 P.131:

"No luxuries. Live very simple life and you save time for chanting Hare

Krsna... That is my desire. Don't waste time for bodily comforts. Produce

your own food and produce your own cloth. Don't waste time for luxury and

chant Hare Krsna. This is success of life. In this way organize as far as

possible, either in Ceylon or Czechoslovakia, wherever...Save time. Chant

Hare Krsna. Don't be allured by the machine civilization...This is soul

killing civilization, this kind way of life, especially European countries.

A cottage, you can produce your own food anywhere. Am I right?...And money,

spend for Krsna- for Krsna's palace, for Krsna's temple, for Krsna's

worship, georgeous, as georgeously as... not for false...This is the human

civilization. And to organize this, varnasrama will help you to divide the

society- as there is division in the body. That will help. Don't waste human

form of body for sense gratification. I wanted to introduce this. Now I have

given you ideas. You can do it. You are all intelligent. For Caitanya

Mahaprabhu's para upakara... So you do good to others, not exploit others.

Any human being who has been bestowed by this body has the capacity to chant

Hare Krsna. Give them chance and make situation favourable.Is that clear?"

 

And it IS clear indeed. This, you can say is THE FINAL ORDER- October 8th,

one month before Srila Prabhupada's passing away. His final instruction to

his leading men.

75-05-14mw.per Vol12 P.364, 366:

" The solution is there. They won't take it. Solution is there, that

everyone produce your own food. There is so much land; utilize it. The

solution is there. No. They want to sit down on the table, chair, in a very

nice compartment, and making solution. They won't go.

Amogha: He was saying that your solution was too simple. He said that

people will not accept it because it is too simple.

Prabhupada: That is his ignorance. They will say it is primitive. That is

the only solution. According to the Vedic system, you cannot use anything

which you cannot produce. Suppose this we are using, but according the Vedic

system we should not use it because I cannot produce it. Then the whole

solution is there. Nobody will manufacture this because there will be no

customer. If I refuse this use of this machine, thinking that "I cannot

produce it; I should not use it," then where is the customer? The so-called

industry will automatically stop, and he has to go to the village outlying.

Paramahamsa: Some of the orthodox hippies have this philosophy, and they

reject all machines and things that they cannot make themselves.

Prabhupada: That is natural. That is natural. It is good. But they are not

led by good leader. Otherwise next alternative is this, that you have to

give up this artificial way of civilization. Now this land is vacant. We can

produce so much food grains if it is utilized. Fruits, flower, vegetables,

grains--we can produce. This land is very good land for producing potato,

watermelon, this. Very good land. But who is doing that? This is the

suitable land for producing watermelon. And watermelon is such a nice thing,

and potato. You boil potato and take watermelon, you have full nourishment

are supplied. Very innocent and simple food.

 

The solution, the whole solution, the only solution, and nothing but the

solution...so help us Krsna!

Your servant, Gopinatha Acarya das.

 

P.S.: If anyone doesn't believe that every problem, individually and

collectively isn't the result of, or at least related to the above cause,

I'm quite happy to try and explain it as far as I have experience and

realization. Please, anyone, if you have any query about the subject matter

persevere with communication and I'll try to be of help.

P.P.S: One last( but not least) point: I'm not lambasting gobar gas plants,

really. They are a million times better than electricity gas coal or

anything artificial. It's just that I know that if I had waited until it

became a reality I would still be waiting, whereas all that is needed is to

pick up a few cow pats, dry them and cook with them. The whole problem

solved in two minutes flat. Let me stress again that one of the greatest

obstacles is our own conditioning, belief in our own understanding, faith in

what we think is better, easier, quicker. A little bit of knowledge can be

dangerous. We think we know better. Our own stubborn obstinacy is our own

worst enemy. With dandavats I fall at your feet. Please do not make the same

mistakes I did (and still do). Please don't waste the many years I did due

to lack of faith in Srila Prabhpada's specific advice, or try to figure

things out myself rather than asking someone else who has already done it.

Success is just around the corner if we want it. Ignorance, rather our

pride, is our enemy. WE are our own enemy!( speaking about myself here.

Help!).

 

More for meditation:

770104rc.bombay Vol 28 P.254:

Prabhupada: That should be stressed. First business is the neighboring

village people, they should come, chant and take prasada. And gradually,

when they become interested, then they come, live with us, work with us. In

this way they should be induced, bare living and chanting.

Jagadisa: As in Hyderabad.

Prabhupada: Yes. Then our movement is success. Our only motive is how

people become interested in Krsna consciousness. We have no other motive. No

economic problem... Economic problem is... What is economic problem? We

produce our own food and cloth, barely, and spiritual life... On the farm it

is easier. And if they are dispatched to the city for livelihood, there are

big, big roads and big, big cars and big, big anxieties. Then wine, meat,

and so on, so on..., suicide, their spiritual life finished. These rascals

are protesting. They have no ideas of spiritual life. They think this is

life, to be merry, enjoy and drink. "Eat. Drink. Be merry." How they are

committing suicide, they do not know. Nature's law is very stringent. They

are foolish rascal. There is no education for them. Still, if we try, many

men will be saved. So write very elaborately how to do this. Increase. And

in your country, we increase this farm project any unlimited number... So

much land is lying vacant. We can utilize the wood for constructing

residences. And as soon as the jungle is clear, we can utilize it for

growing food and keeping cows, as exactly they are doing in New Vrindaban.

The cows are very happy. In our original New Vrindaban... What you have

named it?

Jagadisa: The original farm? I think they still call that New Vrindaban.

Prabhupada: No, New Vrindaban, whole thing. That is called Bahulaban or

something like that? So the cows are free moving. They're very happy. You

have seen it?

Jagadisa: The original farm I haven't seen for some time.

Prabhupada: Oh. Last time you were not... I had been there. The cows are

moving freely. They're very friendly, even to the children, just like family

members. Yes. Krsna... You'll find in India one boy taking care of

twenty-five cows.

Jagadisa: With just a stick.

Prabhupada: Yes, with a stick. (chuckles) They are so submissive. The cow

is going this side, "Raa-raa!"--immediately. (Jagadisa laughs) When in Bible

they say, "The animal is given to the care of man," like that... There is.

This is care of, not that "Because we care of, we shall kill them." What is

this interpretation? How demonic this Western civilization. "Because Jesus

Christ, the God, has given the animals to our care, therefore we shall kill

and eat." Anyway, try to introduce a renovation of civilization. Therefore

they are trying to oppose us. Now they are conscious about the movement,

that "If it is allowed to increase, then our program will be finished. And

young men are taking. They are not rejecting." That is their concern. They

are concerned about their business and industry. If these young men are held

up in plain living, then where their industry...? Industry means to exploit

the work of others and give them one dollar and make profit ten dollars.

This is industry, at the cost of others some capitalist gaining huge profit.

This is industry. "And let them live in a hellish condition, go to hell.

Never mind. You work in the factory, and we make profit." The Communist is

trying to take over the industry and get the whole profit. (laughs) That's

all. The condition remains the same--hellish. But... What is called...?

Complacent, he's satisfied that "I am getting the profit." All foolish. The

Iran is also imitating European method of exploiting. They're bringing men

from village. In India also, British period, they used to, that, but Indian

people are little clever. They would come from the village to the city

alone, not with family. They earn money and send to the family. And whenever

they like, they go away. They're not dependent. And if you bring family, you

have to work. That system is still going on. The village men, they come but

they do not bring their family. Family remains in the village. He earns, he

lives some way or other and sends money there, and the wife who is

intelligent. He (she) accumulates the money and when there is enough money

he (she) purchases land, investment. So... In after few years, when they

have got enough land, they do not come back. They produce their own

necessities. Very nice. Hare Krsna. As soon as they are self-sufficient from

the land they no more work. That's a good idea. Remain in the village with

family.

 

And 750801rc.no vol15 P.252 referred to in the text( prospective ksatriyas

take note):

Prabhupada: No, no, unless our men are trained up, why you should allow to

stay here and to wife. We want trained up men, not third-class picked-up. We

want men who will follow the rules and regulations and fully trained up.

Otherwise we don't want. We don't want ordinary karmis and... And if he

agrees to be trained up, then we'll take. Otherwise what is the use of

bringing some useless men? He must agree to produce his own food, and work.

Our rules and regulations, he must follow. Then it will be ideal community.

Otherwise, if you bring from here and there some men and fill up, that is

not good thing. This is a training institution, to become devotee.

 

 

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