Communal or private ownership

[Guest guest]

Dear devotees, this is a correspondence with Dirk I've been having I thought

why not put it on the com- might lead to more enlightenment.

 

Materially they (the cows) are our dependants and not

posession. That is still material conciousness, but it is a proper one.

Spiritual conciousness is yet another thing.

Children are not our possesion either and every parent should come to

realise this. Not that we have to think they are our possesion in order to

give them proper care. It's a different relationship, and has a different

effect on our conciousness.

 

Of course you are right, Dirk, because Bhaktivinode has

sung: "Whatever I own, my home, children, and wealth, I surrender unto your

lotus

feet, O Krsna, they are Yours"

You are right, that this is the correct consciousness.

Absolutely right. I am in 100% agreement. But practically and at the point

we are at,

will it work? More appropriately, has it worked?

 

Children, no problem, we can think

their Krsna's or whoevers because it doesn't matter, we will care for them,

its just

INSTINCT. Cows are another matter. So are cars. I gave this example on com

before,

I don't know if you read it, but it was my experience that in the days of

communal cars,

everyone was told "they're Krsna's so take good care", but time and time

again, the

cars went without oil and water and didn't last long. There is a difference

between

knowing the philosophy and REALIZING it.Similarly although we

THEORETICALLY knew that the cows in these communal herds were Krsna's- what

was the effect? Just read what happened to the cows, resulting from

treatment by

devotees who no doubt referred to them as "Krsna's cows"! i.e. "history of

cow abuse"

by HK dasi.We are in the neophyte stage, i.e. in general, most devotees. So

in the

meantime, we should tolerate this cow neglect??? Then there is NO

possibility for

advancement!It is an interim measure to help protect and properly care for

the great

souls the cows who have taken birth on Krsna's farms. My main point however

was

that to be DEPENDENT on them would be the greatest safe-guard

 

<< Then that natural conditioned tendency can be used in Krsna's service.

Yes, if it is used properly. Possesion is not the proper attitude and will

not serve its purpose.

 

I like your point, but my point is that experience shows that

devotees are not on that level. So our cows are suffering. But for people

like you, or

for anyone who really understands that their Krsna's, and translates it into

practical

action i.e. shows their love for Krsna by loving and caring for His beloved

cows, then

this is the most wonderful thing. Very wonderful.So please excuse me for

preaching

the value of something which is not so elevated. One's preaching has to be

adjusted

according to time place and circumstance, and the circumstance is that

world-wide we

have some extremely neophyte devotees -even in management- who are abusing

or

neglecting cows. We can't get rid of them, and they are not likely to change

overnight,

but if a neophyte thinks "this is my own cow, she's mine, AND I am dependent

on her

or else I can't feed my kids milk. Let anyone harm one hair on her head and

watch

out!" or similarly for a bulklock:"this is my own bullock, he's mine, AND I

am

dependent on him or else I can't feed my kids . Let anyone harm one hair on

his head

and watch out!"...Completely material of course, but that's where many of us

are at.

That's not to say we shouldn't or can't become elevated, and therefore

everyone on the

farm should engage in hearing and chanting. But its a gradual process, it

may take

lifetimes with all our anarthas, but it will NEVER happen if we continue to

abuse cows

belonging to Krsna.

Its a bit like Buddha who preached atheism to stop the animals

being killed in vedic sacrifices.

Does it make sense. Ultimately that you are right, very

right, but this adjustment I feel is necessary, considering our appalling

history.

Are you

the devotee who preached about veganism?I replied to that but never sent it

off, but if

you are I'll send it to you

 

Yours in service to the cows and bulls of KRSNA! , Niscala

Oops, you had some other points:

<

 

And will the king also keep smiling if you have nothing to pay your taxes

with and his dearly gathered stores are being emptied out by hungry citizens

? It doesn't make sense..

 

King here of course means temple ksatriya, no crown etc.,

pretty normal-looking. Yes, it is the ksatriya's responsibility to have such

a good stock

of grains in his granary that it will see them out through the worst drought

or crop

failure.Failing that, other assets would be traded for supplies of grain

from other parts

of the country, where crops haven't failed.He would make sure his citizens

were living

according to scriptural codes, so that there wouldn't be famine in the first

place...But

should there ever be, then he has as no. 1 priority, the welfare of his

subjects, and will

trade his treasure rather than see them starve.So there's a 3-fold safeguard

against

famine:

1. God-centred way of life (the best safeguard)

2. Good granary.

3. Good

treasury for back-up.

 

 

 

Again doesn't make sense ! What if everyone has insufficient ? How will the

king help his citizens if he receives no or insufficient taxes ?

 

What if the supermarkets

are tomorrow devoid of food? Well its much more likely than this natural

system,in

which Sila Prabhupada assures us the people were so happy "we can't

imagine"And

"there was no famine" and "the earth produced great bounty"

 

And another thing, according to what I have understood the 25 % relates to

EXCESS not your produce. Otherwise how will you feed your family, gather

some riches and maintain your business from the remaining 75 %

 

The percentage itself

or whether its of excess or total, could and should be adjusted according to

circumstance

 

So, it is RENT. Not that it is a pay-off for the land you received. Cause

this stays property of the king, right ?

 

Right.

 

<<The 25% is given to the ksatriya, who uses it for times of emergency, and

for maintaining the

brahmanas, the diety worship, etc. NOT for selling /hoarding...

No no ... I was confused by your mentioning of contributions in 2 different

places and was wondering if this was the same or a different contribution.

But seems like it is the same.

 

These are all details. Not meant to bog us down. Details

can be adjusted. Sorry, I meant to say, FOR EXAMPLE. 25%, not just 25%

 

Confusion is in my head. So I hope you can clear it out.

 

Oh boy, I blew it again. Forgive me, prabhu. And let me

know if I have (cleared it)

ys, niscala

 

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