Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

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Posted by Yaduraja on Jun 04, 2006:

 

Dear Ramakanta Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

I had said:

 

"Your challenge assumes a philosophy that I have never heard of. That we can

only accept the activities of the spiritual master as fulfilling Krishna's

plan when he accompanies his acts with the assertion that he is fulfilling

Krishna's plan."

 

To which you ask:

 

>From where did you get that absurd philosophy?

 

YOU! This is philosophy is implied by the following:

 

> I wanted to test your ability to find out Krishna's plan from Srila

> Prabhupada's activities. You failed the test: You did not find out

> Krishna's plan from Srila Prabhupada's activities. Rather, you found out

> Krishna's plan because Srila Prabhupada said what Krishna's plan was. And

> this is the right way to find it out.

(Ramakanta das Jun 01, 2006 - 05:24 AM)

 

Have you forgotten what you wrote just a few days ago!

 

You are saying the ‘right way’ to find out Krishna’s plan is by finding

where ‘Srila Prabhupada said what Krishna's plan was’. Therefore you imply

that simply noting his activities (which in this case include a concerted

effort over a decade to become and then remain the sole diksa guru for

ISKCON via personal example, setting initiation standards, crushing

ambitious attempts by his disciples to start initiating, legislating,

directing all the GBC and Temple presidents etc etc) is not finding out

Krishna’s plan since none of the activities included the statement that in

doing all those things he was following Krishna’s plan.

 

If that conversation I posted about the league of devotees had not been

recorded then we would still have considered his activities in Jahnsi part

of Krishna’s plan. Wouldn’t you??

 

So I agree the philosophy implied by your challenge is absurd, so if you

want to withdraw it just let me know.

 

If you now agree that when Srila Prabhupada made himself recognised and

accepted as the sole diksa guru for ISKCON in 1966 he was following

Krishna’s plan, and therefore wanted to do it, then we can all go home

happy. If you think may not have been following Krishna’s plan between 1966

and 77, just because Srila Prabhupada did not say the words along the lines

of ‘I am following Krishna’s plan here’, then you would be in an offensively

diseased condition of spiritual life.

 

As it stands your position is contradictory since there are clearly

statements made by Srila Prabhupada that the devotee/spiritual master is

carrying out Krishna’s plan, and is ALWAYS guided by Krishna. Therefore

since you claim the ‘right way’ to find out Krishna’s plan is where ‘Srila

Prabhupada said what Krishna's plan was’ then you must accept that his

activities between 1966 and 1977 with regards initiation were Krishna’s

plan, and hence something he wanted to carry out, since he HAS made

statements elsewhere that confirm the fact that he ALWAYS followed Krishna’s

plan.

 

“The bona fide spiritual master, by his personal activities, teaches the

disciple the principles of devotional service.” S.B.2.9

 

If we can understand ‘devotional service’ from the activities of the

spiritual master, then why can we not understand Krishna’s plan by doing the

same thing? Who says that is not the ‘right way’? Where do you get this

philosophy from? Please tell us.

 

The ‘principles of devotional service’ must include following Krishna’s

plan. So when we see what Srila Prabhupada did over the period of a decade

we can immediately know what was Krishna’s plan.

 

I have supported my position throughout with quotes. Where are your quotes

proving that the spiritual master may establish himself in a position, and

maintain and defend that position for year after year after year, and yet

somehow not be following Krishna’s plan in doing so, or not actually want to

be doing what he is doing? Let’s see you give some RELEVENT evidence to

support your endlessly incompetent challenges.

Best wishes

Ys