Guest guest Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Dear Sanjay, > Why did Parasara talk of the Vishnu avataras in one > full chapter of BPHS. > Please bear in mind that Parasara is a Maharishi and > not like most other > Jyotisa authors because he is the author of the > VISHNU Purana and has heard > the word as indicated in his authorship (lack of > better word) of the Rig > Veda. Parasara is a Maharshi and that is why we should be careful when using his name to support a view. Given that Parasara explcitly gave Shiva, Gouri etc as the deities based on planets in the 12th from AK's amsa, it is factually incorrect to say that "Parasara advocates" that ishta devata (deity worshipped based on the 12th from AK's amsa) should be a Vishnu avatara. That is all I am saying. Having a view different from Parasara's, based on tradition, is fine, but incorrectly attributing a view to Parasara is what made me speak out on this. I gave my freewheeling thoughts on ishta devata in another mail and you responded: > Now it is your assumption that Sri Ramakrishna's > Ista devata is Kali. > I think the Ista devata is Shiva/Rama and Sri Well, it is indeed my assumption. However, it is not an unreasonable one. When Ramakrishna finally obtained nirvikalpa samadhi, merging into the formless reality, the deity he sought permission to do so was Kaali. Also, the "form" that acted as the "final barrier" to merging with the "formless reality" was Kaali - the form that he had to cut to reach nirviklapa samadhi was that of Mother Kaali. And, yet, you claim that Kaali is not his ishta devata!!!! Hmmm... Many of us may get attached to so many deities at various stages in our lives. Can we call all of them or the first one of them as ishta devata? I don't think so. Ishta devata is that special deity, complete surrender to whom can magically transform one's life. That deity controls the native fully and acts as the link of the native to divinity. If at all one reaches savikalpa samadhi, ishta devata is the deity that one experiences. If at all one reaches nirvikalpa samadhi, ishta devata is the form that may act as the final barrier to merging with the formless reality. An avatara like Ramakrishna Paramahansa did so many different sadhanas and excelled in all of them. But, can all those be called ishta devatas? Kaali was the devata he surrendered to and Kaali was the devata who guided his life. Kaali was the devata he saw everywhere. Kaali was the form he had to finally overcome, in order to reach nirvikalpa samadhi. I cannot think of any other deity as Ramakrishna Paramahansa's ishta devata. The fact that he did and excelled in so many sadhanas does not take away anything from the key role of Kaali in his life, which can be played only by ishta devata. > would also do the Puja > sometimes at the Kali temple. This is the Bhakti > yoga of Lagna lord Saturn > (Kali) in 9th house....the rest is history. That is Yes, the rest is history! That is precisely why I think Kaali is his ishta devata!!! As you said below, he had "perfect Bhakti" and "complete submission" to Kaali. And you say that "the rest is history". If there was "perfect Bhakti" and "complete submission" to a deity and "the rest is history", isn't there a higher definition of ishta devata? Doesn't it tell you that Kaali is his ishta devata? Any thumb rule that shows another deity as ishta devata in this case and requires a laborious justification needs fine tuning IMHO. Please realize that I am not dismissing the tradition and the use of 12th house from AK in navamsa. I am only saying that thumbrules like "take the occupant and lord if empty" are not perfect and need finetuning. In this case, 12th has a planet, but 12th lord Jupiter is stronger. He is in Saturn's house with Saturn. Saturn shows Kaali. Jupiter shows Taara. So it was a variation of Kaali who was a little like Taara (Taarana Kaali), surrender to whom created a historical spiritual personage who not only obtained the most perfect self-realization but paved the way for self-realization in many many people for many many more generations to come!! > perfect Bhakti when the > lagna lord goes to the ninth house and is exalted > (highest ideals) and > retrograde (humility/complete submission) or in some > cases, it can be > combust in perfect oneness with the Sun which is > also superb for spiritual > awakening. > Ramakrishna achieved one-ness > with Ista devata at a very young age. Look at his > spiritual path and > spiritual master Totapuri (Advaita Vedanta) which is > the path of Shiva. Totapuri considered worship any form (including Shiva) as silly. He only believed in the formless reality. Lord Shiva Himself mastered so many different sadhanas of so many different forms, apart from union with the formless reality (Brahman). Thus, whether Totapuri followed "the path of Shiva" is debatable. Finally, one comment. Different deities are lauded in various scriptures as the givers of moksha. If one holds the view that there are subtle and supreme forms of various deities that are capable of granting moksha, it is justified. Maharshi Vasishtha even says that one can obtain moksha without worshipping any form (just as Totapuri believed). Of course, Vasishtha himself worshipped so many forms. May the light of Brahman shine within, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Dear Narasimha, Only about Ishta devata of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa - 12th from his AK in Navamsha is Sun and it receives aspect (rasi) of Venus, a Stree graha. Shiva being indicated by Sun, aspect of Venus showing the female form of Shiva can not be ruled out. So even with SJC method his Ishta devata does seem appropriate with what he in fact worshiped. However I would like to point out that Ishta devata has two connotations. First is the Devata that is ishta of the Jataka meaning that jataka may like that devata. Second being the Devata that will do Ishta (protection/good) for the Jataka. Of course being a Sanskrit Pandit, I need not tell you this, but this distinction seems to be many a times overlooked. Chandrashekhar. Narasimha P.V.R. Rao wrote: > Dear Sanjay, > > > Why did Parasara talk of the Vishnu avataras in one > > full chapter of BPHS. > > Please bear in mind that Parasara is a Maharishi and > > not like most other > > Jyotisa authors because he is the author of the > > VISHNU Purana and has heard > > the word as indicated in his authorship (lack of > > better word) of the Rig > > Veda. > > Parasara is a Maharshi and that is why we should be careful when using > his name to support a view. > > Given that Parasara explcitly gave Shiva, Gouri etc as the deities > based on planets in the 12th from AK's amsa, it is factually incorrect > to say that "Parasara advocates" that ishta devata (deity worshipped > based on the 12th from AK's amsa) should be a Vishnu avatara. That is > all I am saying. > > Having a view different from Parasara's, based on tradition, is fine, > but incorrectly attributing a view to Parasara is what made me speak > out on this. > > I gave my freewheeling thoughts on ishta devata in another mail and > you responded: > > > Now it is your assumption that Sri Ramakrishna's > > Ista devata is Kali. > > I think the Ista devata is Shiva/Rama and Sri > > Well, it is indeed my assumption. However, it is not an unreasonable one. > > When Ramakrishna finally obtained nirvikalpa samadhi, merging into the > formless reality, the deity he sought permission to do so was Kaali. > Also, the "form" that acted as the "final barrier" to merging with the > "formless reality" was Kaali - the form that he had to cut to reach > nirviklapa samadhi was that of Mother Kaali. > > And, yet, you claim that Kaali is not his ishta devata!!!! Hmmm... > > Many of us may get attached to so many deities at various stages in > our lives. Can we call all of them or the first one of them as ishta > devata? I don't think so. Ishta devata is that special deity, complete > surrender to whom can magically transform one's life. That deity > controls the native fully and acts as the link of the native to > divinity. If at all one reaches savikalpa samadhi, ishta devata is the > deity that one experiences. If at all one reaches nirvikalpa samadhi, > ishta devata is the form that may act as the final barrier to merging > with the formless reality. > > An avatara like Ramakrishna Paramahansa did so many different sadhanas > and excelled in all of them. But, can all those be called ishta devatas? > > Kaali was the devata he surrendered to and Kaali was the devata who > guided his life. Kaali was the devata he saw everywhere. Kaali was the > form he had to finally overcome, in order to reach nirvikalpa samadhi. > I cannot think of any other deity as Ramakrishna Paramahansa's ishta > devata. The fact that he did and excelled in so many sadhanas does not > take away anything from the key role of Kaali in his life, which can > be played only by ishta devata. > > > would also do the Puja > > sometimes at the Kali temple. This is the Bhakti > > yoga of Lagna lord Saturn > > (Kali) in 9th house....the rest is history. That is > > Yes, the rest is history! That is precisely why I think Kaali is his > ishta devata!!! As you said below, he had "perfect Bhakti" and > "complete submission" to Kaali. And you say that "the rest is > history". If there was "perfect Bhakti" and "complete submission" to a > deity and "the rest is history", isn't there a higher definition of > ishta devata? > > Doesn't it tell you that Kaali is his ishta devata? > > Any thumb rule that shows another deity as ishta devata in this case > and requires a laborious justification needs fine tuning IMHO. > > Please realize that I am not dismissing the tradition and the use of > 12th house from AK in navamsa. I am only saying that thumbrules like > "take the occupant and lord if empty" are not perfect and need finetuning. > > In this case, 12th has a planet, but 12th lord Jupiter is stronger. He > is in Saturn's house with Saturn. Saturn shows Kaali. Jupiter shows > Taara. So it was a variation of Kaali who was a little like Taara > (Taarana Kaali), surrender to whom created a historical spiritual > personage who not only obtained the most perfect self-realization but > paved the way for self-realization in many many people for many many > more generations to come!! > > > perfect Bhakti when the > > lagna lord goes to the ninth house and is exalted > > (highest ideals) and > > retrograde (humility/complete submission) or in some > > cases, it can be > > combust in perfect oneness with the Sun which is > > also superb for spiritual > > awakening. > > > > Ramakrishna achieved one-ness > > with Ista devata at a very young age. Look at his > > spiritual path and > > spiritual master Totapuri (Advaita Vedanta) which is > > the path of Shiva. > > Totapuri considered worship any form (including Shiva) as silly. He > only believed in the formless reality. > > Lord Shiva Himself mastered so many different sadhanas of so many > different forms, apart from union with the formless reality (Brahman). > Thus, whether Totapuri followed "the path of Shiva" is debatable. > > Finally, one comment. Different deities are lauded in various > scriptures as the givers of moksha. If one holds the view that there > are subtle and supreme forms of various deities that are capable of > granting moksha, it is justified. Maharshi Vasishtha even says that > one can obtain moksha without worshipping any form (just as Totapuri > believed). Of course, Vasishtha himself worshipped so many forms. > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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