Guest guest Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Dear Sanjay, > [s.Rath:] But that is what I said when I asked everyone to start taking > names based on Parasara/Jaimini's teaching of planet in the 12th house from > Karakamsa. Did I not give this very list? That this is not also referring to > a Vishnu avatara is perhaps a limitation of not connecting the third chapter > of Parasara with the other chapters. Why this limitation? I have no issue with connecting the third chapter and using Vishnu's avataras. My only problem is with insisting that only Vishnu's avataras should be prescribed and, moreover, attributing that view to Parasara. > In another chapter Parasara talks of Agni and Jala as the deities of the Sun > and Moon. Does it seem contradictory to this where he talks of different > deities as Rama and Krishna for Sun and Moon and then again in another > chapter he talks of Shiva and Gouri as the deities of Sun and Moon. We have millions of deities, but only nine planets!! Obviously, each planet must show many many deities. > In any case, strictly speaking, Parasara has never talked of Kali for any of > the planets. Then how can we explain the case of Ramakrishna? Should we > assume then that since he did not worship any of the deities mentioned by > Parasara then he did not get moksha? Parasara's list is obviously not exhaustive and merely a guidance. I object to eliminating deities explicitly listed by Parasara (e.g. insisting on only Vishnu's avataras and hence eliminating Shiva, Gouri etc), but obviously not to extending the list by treating it as a guideline. Secondly, Parasara did not specifically mention Kaali, but he did say that Saturn in a malefic sign shows devotion to taamasik deities. Here Saturn is in Aquarius, a malefic sign. > This would be a pathetic deduction as > if anyone deserves moksha in the recent history then he alone does so. I completely agree with the sentiment. And I am sure Ramakrishna got moksha. Humans may have the fortune of having Swami Vivekananda among them again, but Ramakrishna will not walk this earth again. > Should we take Kali to be the deity of the Moon or the deity of Saturn? > Prasna Marga at least is very clear about Saturn but puts a condition of the > Moon being in a Saturn's sign. Moon shows Divine Mother in general. Saturn's influence on him can show a Saturnine form of Divine Mother, i.e. Kaali. > When Ramakrishna finally obtained nirvikalpa samadhi, merging into the > formless reality, the deity he sought permission to do so was Kaali. Also, > the "form" that acted as the "final barrier" to merging with the "formless > reality" was Kaali - the form that he had to cut to reach nirviklapa samadhi > was that of Mother Kaali. > [s.Rath:] I think it was Ma Bhava Taarini, whom He called Kali and then the > whole of Bengal calls Her Kaali. Should I also do so? I think differently > and perhaps that is one flaw in me. > Narasimha, if I start calling you Ramachandra, do you become Ramachandra or > are you still Narasimha? And just because I start calling you Ramachandra > out of my dearest feelings for you and know how much I like you won't you > encourage me to do so and endure all my tantrums? Perhaps that is what Ma > Bhava Taarini did for Thakur. Suppose there is a stone idol that everybody calls "Ganesha". Suppose a great saint sees "Hanuman" in that stone and worships the stone as Hanuman. Suppose he worships Hanuman with the highest devotion. Won't Hanuman come and bless him? If that happens, is it Ganesha who blesses him or Hanuman? Is it the stone he worshipped that blesses him or the "Hanuman" that he sees in the stone that blesses him? Is the power in the stone or in the thoughts of devotion in the worshipper when he sees the stone? You can trust Ramakrishna to know the devata he saw!! If he thought he saw Kaali, it must be Kaali. Period. What the original idol he worshipped was called before is, IMHO, grossly irrelevant. Like I said earlier, "Taarana Kaali" who was with Ramakrishna is a variation of Kaali with some energy of Taara. It is Saturn in Aq with Jupiter that shows Her. > And, yet, you claim that Kaali is not his ishta devata!!!! Hmmm... > [s.Rath:] That was something worth thinking about. I try to go beyond the > border sometimes. And I try to get you back within the border. :-) > So I went and looked up Mantramahodadhih...and then I am again floored. > Completely stumped this time. > He says " Kalika is like a thousand SUN's ablaze...and she is best > worshipped on SUNDAYS!!!" > Thats it - enough for today. > What do you think Narasimha? I hope you are not considering Sun to show Kaali now! The dasa maha vidya verse you quoted associates Kaali with Saturn. If you see the desctiption of Kaali in Sapta shati, Sapta shati rahasyam etc, then also the association with Saturn makes great sense. You cannot expect each deity to be exactly like a planet and have every quality matching that of a specific planet. There may be similarity to several planets in several characteristics, but one planet may dominantly show the deity. For example, Kaali may have the radiance of Sun, speed of Mars, wisdom of Jupiter etc, but, if we have to pick one planet, it is Saturn. May the light of Brahman shine within, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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