Is Prabhupad in Goloka?

Puru_Das · June 10, 2006

There is not much point in discussing guru tattva, suddha bhakti, or

sadhu-sanga with anyone who so firmly believes that Srila Prabhupada "institutionalized" Gaudiya Vaisnavism. I suggest you read:

The Mental Prison Of The Institution

Editorial (VNN) - by Atulananda das

http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET9809/ET19-2250.html

to broaden your view of what ISKCON means, otherwise not.

But actually if you cannot see for forest for the trees there is nothing anyone can do to force your eyes open. Srila Bhkati Raksak Sridhar Maharaja has given nice insight into what KC means. Srila Prabhupada thought highly of his association and showed by his example to embrace such sadhu sanga. You can read their conversation of March l977 here:

http://www.guardian-of-devotion.de/articles/meeting1977.htm

excerpted from Sri Guru and His Grace:

God Consciousness vs. Society Consciousness

Responding to the necessity of the times Srila Sridhara Maharaja lucidly explains the absolute societal conception of Krsna consciousness:

Devotee: Within a religious mission, sectarian policies may appear to bar the path of progress and pragmatic concerns take precedence over spiritual ideals. Should one risk leaving the formal institution or should he try to remain within and work out the problems?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Progress means elimination and new acceptance. So, when there is a clash between the relative and the absolute standpoint, the relative must be left aside, and the absolute accepted. The example is given of a socialist in a country of capitalists. When there is a clash, one will not express their creed for the sake of peace. But to maintain the purity of their faith for the socialists they will try to leave and join the socialists.

Higher Ideal

So, the absolute and the relative are two different classes of interest. And we find more importance in the absolute interest. We must be sincere to our own creed. The form is necessary to help me in a general way to maintain my present position. At the same time, my conception of the higher ideal will always goad me to advance, to go forward, and wherever I do, I must follow the greater model, the greater ideal. Spiritual life is progressive, not stagnant. We are in the stage of sadhana, and we want to go ahead, not backwards. The formal position will help me to maintain my present status, and my extraordinary affinity for the ideal will goad me towards the front. The search for Sri Krsna is dynamic and living, so adjustment and readjustment is always going on. And we should also change our present position accordingly, so that we may not have to sacrifice the high ideal for which we have come. Einstein had to leave Germany and go to America for his high ideal of life. And so many similar instances may be found in the world. The ideal is all in all. The highest ideal in a man is his highest jewel. Our most precious gem is our ideal.

Many things are recommended in the scriptures, but they are meant to promote us towards the truth in an indirect way (sva-dharme nidhanam sreya ). [bg 3.35] It is recommended at a certain stage that for the sake of our close friends, we should give up our ideal. But in the Bhagavad-gita, Krsna's final instruction is sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: "If it is necessary to maintain the highest ideal, you must give up your friends. Surrender to me. I am the real purport of the scriptures." The highest kind of idealists give up their country, their family, their friends, and everything else, but they can't give up their ideal.

In the Bhagavad-gita, [3.35] Krsna says, "It is better to die while performing one's duty that to try to do another's duty." That is one stage of understanding: the relative consideration. The absolute consideration is also given in the Bhagavad-gita: sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [bg. 18.66]. Krsna says, "Give up everything. Come to Me directly." This is the revolutionary way. This is absolute. And this is relative: "Stick to your own clan. Don't leave them." That is the national conception.

There is nation consciousness and God consciousness; society consciousness and God consciousness. God consciousness is absolute. If society consciousness hinders the development of God consciousness, it should be left behind. This is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam (5.5.18):

<CENTER>gurur na sa syat sva jano na sa syat

pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat

daivam na tat syan na patis ca sa syan

na mocayed yah samupeta mrtyum </CENTER>

Even a spiritual master, relative, parent, husband, or demigod who cannot save us from repeated birth and death should be abandoned at once."

What to speak of ordinary things, even the guru, may have to be abandoned. One may even have to give up one's own spiritual guide, as in the case of Bali Maharaja, or one's relatives, as in the case of Vibhisana. In the case of Prahlada, his father had to be given up, and in the case of Bharata Maharaja, it was his mother. In the case of Khatvanga Maharaja, he left the demigods, and in the case of the yajna patnis, (the wives of the brahmanas ) they left their husbands in the endeavor to reach the Absolute Personality.

We need society only to help us. If our affinity to the society keeps us down, then that should be given up, and we must march on. There is the absolute consideration and the relative consideration. When they come into clash, the relative must be given up, and the absolute should be accepted. If my inner voice, my spiritual conscience decides that this sort of company cannot really help me, then I will be under painful necessity to give them up, and to run towards my destination, wherever my spiritual conscience guides me. Any other course will be hypocrisy, and it will check my real progress. If we are sincere in our attempt, then no one in the world can check us or deceive us; we can only deceive ourselves (na hi kalyana-krt kascid durgatim tata gacchati ) [bg. 6.40]. We must be true to our own selves, and true to the Supreme Lord. We must be sincere.

Disappearance of the Guru

Devotee: After the disappearance of the spiritual master, how should the disciples continue the mission?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: You must not neglect your conscience. Otherwise you have no faith in your own cause. There may be disturbances but we should not leave the preaching of Mahaprabhu, despite all differences. Disturbances must come, and we must undergo them. Still, we must remain sincere; we must face the difficulty in a proper way. It has come to train us to go in the right direction.

The Fire has Come to Test Us

What we have received from our spiritual master we understood only in a rough estimation. Now, things have come in such a way that we have to scrutinize ourselves in every position. We have to analyze ourselves. Atma-niksepa, self-analysis has begun. We are under trial. What we have received from our spiritual master, in what way have we received it? Properly, or only showingly? The time has come to purify us, to test whether we are real students, real disciples, or his disciples only in face and confession. What is the position of a real disciple? If we live in a society, what is the depth of our creed? In what attitude have we accepted his teachings? How deep-rooted is it within us? The fire has come to test whether we can stand. Is our acceptance real? Or is it a sham, an imitation? This fire will prove that.

So, this is the real field of sadhana, or practice. Our practice, our advancement needs these difficulties. Otherwise, we may not know what is progress, and we will become hypocrites, and give the adulterated thing to others. So, to purify ourselves, it is necessary that so many disturbances come.

And God has no error. He commands the environment. It is not our responsibility. The responsibility of the environment does not rest upon us. If I am sincere, then I have to adjust myself with this environment and put my faith before Him. "Everyone may leave me, but I shall stand alone!" With this attitude we must march on, whatever the circumstances may be. Then the recognition may come in my favor, that "Yes, under such trying circumstances he is still there." Our superiors will be pleased with us.

The relative and absolute considerations are always coming in clash. The absolute should be accepted and the relative sacrificed. Still the relative is necessary. After graduation from primary school another teacher is accepted for higher education, but that does not mean that the primary teacher is neglected or insulted. For our own interest, whatever we find which is akin to what was given to us by our guru maharaja, whatever we find that will enlighten us further, and whatever will help us to understand more clearly what we heard from our guru maharaja, must be accepted. Is my realization a living thing, or is it dead? Anyone who has come in connection with the infinite cannot but say this: "I am nothing." That should be the salient point.

We have left all social concerns and so many other shackles. For what? For the Absolute Truth. And wherever I shall find that, I must bow down my head. And if a great soul shows us, "This is the path to where you will find your thirst quenched. The line is in this zigzag way," we must accept that for our own interest. We are worshipers not of this form, but of substance. Wherever I feel the presence of my Lord in an intense form, I must be attracted to that side. Krsna says, sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. Wherever we shall find Him, we must run in that direction. My interest is with Him. Not that we can challenge, "Why did Krsna appear here, and why is He appearing there?" If a man in a boat is passing through the current and finds himself in danger, then from whatever side help may come, he must run to that side.

If we are worshipers of Siva, when we understand the special superiority of Narayana, should we stick to Siva? And then Krsna? In the Brhad-bhagavatamrta the story is told of how Gopa-kumara, by chanting his Gopala mantra, gradually leaves one stage and progresses to the next. There, the gradation of devotion is traced from the karma-kanda brahmana, to a devotee king, then to Indra, then to Brahma, then to Siva, from him to Prahlada, then to Hanuman, then the Pandavas, then to the Yadavas, to Uddhava, and finally the gopis. In this zigzag way he is passing. In the sincerity of his quest, his thirst is not being quenched until he goes to Vrndavana. So, the Brhad-bhagavatamrta has shown us the line of guru parampara, or the real line of our quest, of our search.

Sincere Hankering for the Truth is Our Guide

If we are sincerely searching after real truth, then wherever we go may be a contribution to our experience for further preaching in the future. We may cross many guru paramparas before ultimately attaining the Vraja-lila of Krsna, as given by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Sometimes the father may not be our guardian. Our uncle may be our guide, and not the father. It is possible. The line of interest is to be considered the most important. So, our line is the siksa guru parampara.

I am thankful to those that are helping my spiritual understanding not only in a formal way, but in the real sense. Whoever is untying the knots of our entanglement in this material world, giving us light, and quenching our thirst for inner understanding and satisfaction is our guru. In this way, we live on the contribution of all these spiritual masters. They are all our siksa gurus. All the Vaisnavas are more or less our instructing spiritual masters.

And our own sincere hankering for the truth will be our guide. That is guru parampara. So the real disciplic line provides practical knowledge in support of the divine love which is coming down. We must bow our heads wherever we find support of that. We should not become formalists, but substantialists; not fashionists, not imitationists, but realistic thinkers. That should always be our temperament.

And what sort of saintly persons shall we try to mix with earnestly? In the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.2.91) Rupa Goswami has said, sajati-yasye snigdhe sadhau sangah svato vare: Those who are in our line, who have the same high spiritual aspirations as we do, and who hold a superior position. To associate with such saintly persons will help us the most to progress towards the ultimate goal.

There may be some obstacles, but if at heart we are sincere, the environment cannot deceive us, because God's inner help is there, cooperating with our sincere, inner need (na hi kalyana krt kascit durgatim tata gacchati) [bg. 6.40]. What we want from our innermost hearts cannot but come true, because Krsna knows everything. There may be some obstacles, but by Krsna's help, they shall all be eliminated and our innermost aspiration will be crowned with success.

The formal societal position helps one to maintain their present status while our affinity for the high ideal will always push us to advance in Krsna consciousness. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.18 it is stated that whatever hinders our advancement must be left behind, even society consciousness. The society is there to help us, not hinder us. Our process is Krsna consciousness not society consciousness.

June 10, 2006

Wherever Srila Prabhupada is - that is Vrndavana - as his heart is fixed in service to Sri Radha Madhava.

Regarding the position of Sri Guru - Sridhara Maharaja has explained that there is the absolute side and the relative side. Depending on the devotee's relationship with Sri Guru they will have a unique vision. The god brother of Sri Guru will have a different vision than the sisya. That is not offensive.

Narayana Maharaja is a disciple of Srila Prabhupada's god brother but their relationship is very personal and deep. His vision of our Srila Prabhupada is different but it is in no way offensive.

Regarding books and personal association with one who embodies what the book is speaking about - my own experience is that my Guru Maharaja writes books and I definitely feel his presence in his books. Reading his books inspires me to sit at his feet and hear from him which enables me to seek elaboration on certain points in his books, seek clarity on points that left me with questions etc. He naturally elaborates on what he writes in his books in person. Also, by his personal association I am able to talk to him directly about my personal life situations and receive personal instructions as to how to advance and serve according to my own nature and circumstance. This is not in his books and can never be - it is personalized instruction.

Srila Prabhupada's books certainly contain everything it takes to become Krsna conscious. What I find fascinating is that so many devotees are reading them and yet there are so may factions and different ideas about what Srila Prabhupada is saying in them or in his letters or other written instructions. Given that, it becomes very obvious that it takes more than the abililty to read to actually properly understand and follow Srila Prabhupada.

Unless we ourselves are very advanced then we need the help of advanced souls to progress properly. S.B. canto 3 chapter 25 Lord Kapila instructs his mother Devahuti as follows:

"The symptoms of a sadhu are that he is tolerant, merciful and friendly to all living entities. He has no enemies, he is peaceful, he abides by the scriptures, and all his characteristics are sublime.

Such a sadhu engages in staunch devotional service to the Lord without deviation. For the sake of the Lord he renounces all other connections, such as family relationships and friendly acquaintances within the world.

Engaged constantly in chanting and hearing about Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the sadhus do not suffer from material miseries because they are always filled with thoughts of My pastimes and activities.

O My mother, O virtual lady, these are the qualities of great devotees who are free from all attachment. You must seek attachment to such holy men, for this counteracts the pernicious effects of material attachment.

In the association of pure devotees, discussion of the pastimes and activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is very pleasing and satisfying to the ear and the heart. By cultivating such knowledge one gradually becomes advanced on the path of liberation, and thereafter he is freed, and his attraction becomes fixed. Then real devotion and devotional service begin.

In the purport to this last verse Srila Prabhpupada makes the point, "The process of advancing in Krsna consciousness and devotional service is described here. the first point is that one must seek the association of persons who are Krsna conscious and who engage in devotional service. Without such association one cannot make advancement. Simply by theorhetical knowledge or study one cannot make any appreciable advancement."

Puru_Das · June 10, 2006

Srila Prabhupada repeatedly said over and over and over again that joining the Krishna consciousness movement fulfilled all the requirements for accepting a spiritual master and having siksha gurus, sadhu sanga etc. etc..

From l965-1977 that was certainly true. After His Divine Grace entered maha samadhi, then everything changed gradually. The same phenomenon took place in the SBSST's original Gaudiya Mission. You can read Cc. Adi lila Ch. 12 Txt8-12 for His Divine Grace's insight into that matter, and just replace GM with ISKCON and leading secretaries with gbc. the purports still work. Two groups of asaras, the irm on one side and gbc on the other.

Now, after Srila Prabhupada is gone the followers of Narayana Maharaja and some others are trying to replace Srila Prabhupada's intructions for joining the Krishna consciousness movement and they tell us that we need to leave the Krishna consciousness movement concept and accept one old sannyasi as a substitute for the Krishna consciousness movement..

Calling Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja "one old sannyasi" is offensive. Would you dare describe Srila Prabhupada as "an old bengali?" I think not. We certainly don't advocate leaving the KC Movement, but going to where it actually manifests. The KC Movement manifests in the hearts of pure Vaisnavas and their sincere followers.

Any time that Srila Prabhupada discussed accepting a spiritual master or having sadhu sanga he always recommended joining the movement..

He was still on the planet then. Have you not read what he wrote in his Nectar of Devotion?:

"“There are many societies and associations of pure devotees, and if someone with just a little faith begins to associate with such societies, his advancement to pure devotionalservice is rapid.”

He essentially replaced the old school concept of disorganized individual gurus with the modern structure of membership in the society of devotees.

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura was the first gaudiya acarya to do this when he established his Gaudiya Mission, under the guidance of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Srila Prabhupada co founded the Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti, many years before he left India to form ISKCON . All the preaching missions established by SBSST's disciple are actually different branches of the GM,or the Caitanya tree.

Srila Prabhupada constantly and repeatedly referred to his disciples as "members of ISKCON" or "members of the Krishna consciousness movement".

The Krishna consciousness Movement or ISKCON, is wherever there are devotees conscious of Radha-Krsna and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu

So, actually the followers of Srila Prabhupada are really more interested in being members of Srila Prabhupada's movement than they are in accepting some old sadhu from the Gaudiya Math as a personal guru..

So actually the followers of Srila Prabhupada are really more interested in following what His Divine Grace taught, than staying attached to any external institution that makes sadhu-sanga illegal., makes a mockery of guru-tattva, jiva tattva, and embraces Vaisnava Aparadha as an institutional policy.

If one is a member of the Krishna consciousness movement, then he is well in contact with a spiritual master (Srila Prabhupada) and having plenty of sadhu sanga from other members of the Krishna consciousness movement.

If one is a member of the Krishna consciusness movement then he will contact a bona fide spiritual master, not a rubber stamped so called acarya who may or may not falll down, and he will get sadhu sanga from genuine sadhus, wherever they happen to manifest. Vote with your feet.

theist · June 10, 2006

Calling Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja "one old sannyasi" is offensive. Would you dare describe Srila Prabhupada as "an old bengali?" I think not.

So what just happened in reaction to Narayana Maharaja's disciples preaching this constant theme "You need Narayana Maharaja now to advance further" to Srila Prabhupada's disciples? A disrespectful statement came back. Surprised? No you are not and neither are the rest of this crew. Why? because you have been here seeing this same thing repeat a hundred times before. So you know this will be the result of your preaching thusly to Srila Prabhupada's disciples and yet you persist. Does that not make you an equal or greater offender Puru?

That is why I asked you some time back to concentrate on other subjects that don't raise this reaction. Now the line is being crossed and it will only get worse most likely.

Ciao folks

vijay · June 10, 2006

If one is a member of the Krishna consciusness movement then he will contact a bona fide spiritual master, not a rubber stamped so called acarya who may or may not falll down, and he will get sadhu sanga from genuine sadhus, wherever they happen to manifest. Vote with your feet.

So actually the followers of Srila Prabhupada are really more interested in following what His Divine Grace taught, than staying attached to any external institution that makes sadhu-sanga illegal., makes a mockery of guru-tattva, jiva tattva, and embraces Vaisnava Aparadha as an institutional policy.

You like quoting Gaur govinda maharaja (Selectively?). He was also apart of the instituation, a part of the rubber stamping process, although he didnt agree with everything and was harrassed, he for some strange reason stayed with the useless institution till the end. A place where rubber stamping went on, philosophical deviations and aparahad. I dont think he stayed just for the sake of the instituation but he felt helping the instituition will please prabhupada.

(Copied from a recent article by murli krishna swami) http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/06-06/editorials406.htm

“He (Narayana Maharaja) has some jnana! Better for devotees to associate with senior devotees within ISKCON, even though they may not have as much jnana, because at least they are Authorized.”

“This is Bhaktivinode Thakur’s dhara. We follow Bhaktivinode Thakur’s dhara. Yes. Understand? So Narayan Maharaja’s dhara is something. Our dhara, Prabhupada’s dhara is different. So we follow this. This difference is there.”

“Now you are going there, leaving ISKCON camp. Such foolishness! You are such a fool. Can't you understand this thing? Thereby they are committing such offence.”

“So my mission is to show how everything is there in Prabhupada's books and make them 'mum' and so nobody will leave ISKCON."

“My opinion is that Srila Prabhupada will NOT BE HAPPY (my emphasis) with these senior devotees going outside of ISKCON. “

“…But in this case (with NM) there is a danger that the discipline in our organization will be affected adversely. If the leaders are going outside of ISKCON, how will we be able to maintain discipline? Srila Prabhupada has formed this Society and this THREAT (my emphasis) to his society will only cause him PAIN (my emphasis).

With this consideration, they should not go. That will only lead to indiscipline in our society. “
“You mention that many devotees are loosing faith in ISKCON and are leaving our society to find shelter elsewhere. That is not good. THEY SHOULD NOT LEAVE ISKCON (my emphasis); that will never please Srila Prabhupada. “

vijay · June 10, 2006

Now will you say with Gaur Govinda maharajas emphasis on staying in ISKCON for his dicsiples and disciples of prabhupada he has institutional conciousness? If so then you should stop quoting him. Im sure you'll just find more quotes which are indirect to show how everyone should go to Narayana maharaja, may be its an insecurity thing or something, where ever you go everyone has to follow.

http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/06-06/editorials402.htm

..." Next thing, this Sacinandana Swami in Heidelberg, Germany, he asked me, "Maharaja, why have you come? What is the purpose of your coming now? You have so much bodily problem, you cannot move freely. So many things I could notice. Still you are doing a lot of touring, traveling and preaching. What is your purpose?" He asked me. I said, “Maharaja, I have dedicated my life, my body, my mind, my speech, everything I've dedicated for the service of Sri Guru and Gauranga and my revered spiritual master, Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Maharaja has founded this International Society for Krsna Consciousness, like his life, his body. He is getting so much pain now, I could feel so. After his disappearance, many left, so- called sannyasis, leaders, those who have joined the other camp, Sridhara Maharaja camp and some other camp and they are now criticizing ISKCON, criticizing Srila Prabhupada, committing such great offense they couldn't understand, and they must get punishment for it, definitely. But what they say, it is intolerable on my part, intolerable…

They showed me that booklet they are publishing, Sadjana Tosani, and they have put the name of my guru maharaja there, Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, then Bhaktiraksa Sridhara, then Govinda maharaj. Why have they put the name of my guru maharaja?

Devotee: It's cheating.

Gour Govinda maharaja: Cheating, yes they are cheating. You are publishing your booklet, then you'll put your name. But the photo of my guru maharaja, "Guru maharaja said" articles they have printed there and telling these ISKCON devotees that Bhaktivedanta Swami taught, gave only elementary knowledge, A B C. He has not given any higher Vaisnava philosophy, education.

Now, after Bhaktiraksita Sridhara maharaja, Govinda maharaja is keeping it up, "please come and join." So they are just tricking and stealing the men of ISKCON. And that is intolerable, very painful. I got such a shock in my heart. These fools, who are going there. They are fools ! I chastised them, "Why you are such a fool ? You believe them? You don't believe Prabhupada who fulfilled the desire of Gauranga Mahaprabhu ? prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama sarvatra pracara haibe mora nama C.B, Antya 4.126

Who did it? Did they do it? Srimad Bhaktisiddanta Prabhupada Maharaja already sent, prior to the coming of my guru maharaj to the West, he sent Bhakti Tirtha, Bhakti Hrdaya Bon maharaj and some others. Why they couldn't do it? They were sannyasis, they were living in the math with Bhaktisiddanta Thakura, but my guru maharaja was a grhasta, he was living in his home. He was not matha-vasi, staying in the matha. He was not a sannyasi at that time, he was a grhasta. But he could get the complete, full mercy, complete mercy of Bhaktisiddanta, Bhaktivinoda Thakur, specially empowered person, an empowered devotee. Who could fulfill the desire of all previous acaryas, especially Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati. Who came to the West? Who sowed the seed, who laid the foundation of Krsna Consciousness?

Who fulfilled the desire of Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu? Specially empowered.

He's empowered. Can't you understand this thing, why couldn't they do this thing? Why do they come at this time and do now, when the atmosphere is created, the platform is there, foundations are already laid some construction is there? Now they are coming.

Now you are going there, leaving ISKCON camp. Such foolishness! You are such a fool. Can't you understand this thing? Thereby they are committing such offence. He has given only elementary knowledge A B C, nothing higher? You can't understand what he has said. When a tiny seed is there, it contains, like the seed of a banyan tree. So tiny but it contains a great banyan tree inside. You fool cannot understand this thing. So intolerable. As a disciple of my guru maharaja and as a member of this founded society ISKCON, it is our duty to keep up the prestige. Yes, it is our duty now....Yes, that is my only purpose. So I am coming and teaching. And I want to make them 'mum', shut their mouth.

Now there is higher peaching in ISKCON. Yes, the time has come now. The time has come when my guru maharaja (Srila Prabhupada), he gave everything in seed form. That seed will now be fructified. Yes, it contains everything and you should understand. You are so foolish you cannot understand this thing. What my guru maharaja said in one word, in one sentence, it needs further explanation. One word, one sentence contains and you can't understand, you're such fools. So my mission is to show how everything is there in Prabhupada's books and make them 'mum' and so nobody will leave ISKCON."

The following are two letters written by His Holiness Srila Gour Govinda Swami.

Dear Gudakesa das
Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thank you for your letter, undated. I have gone through it carefully and noted the contents.
My opinion is that Srila Prabhupada will not be happy (my emphasis) with these senior devotees going outside of ISKCON.
Srila Prabhupada has said that everything is in his books. If you try to understand this, then by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada it will all be made clear to you.
It is a fact that if an elevated Vaisnava is there, then one should go and take his association. There is no harm in that. But in this case (with NM) there is a danger that the discipline in our organization will be affected adversely. If the leaders are going outside of ISKCON, how will we be able to maintain discipline? Srila Prabhupada has formed this society and this THREAT (my emphasis) to his society will only cause him PAIN (my emphasis).
With this consideration, they should not go. That will only lead to indiscipline in our society.
Two sides are there; philosophical and organizational. On the organizational side, this practice is not good. Therefore we have this GBC body which makes so many rules to maintain the discipline of the members of our society. But how will we be able to keep discipline now? No one will listen, 'if the leaders are going, why we should listen, we will also go'. This will create only trouble.
May this letter find you in the best of health and a blissful mood of Krsna consciousness.
Your servant
Gour Govinda Swami
Dated 3/11/94

next letter:
Dear Goloka Vrndavan das,
Hare Krsna. May you have the blessings of Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga all the time.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thank you for your letter dated Oct., 23 1993, which I have just received. I have gone through it carefully and noted the contents.
You mention that many devotees are loosing faith in ISKCON and are leaving our society to find shelter elsewhere. That is not good. THEY SHOULD NOT LEAVE ISKCON (my emphasis); that will never please Srila Prabhupada.
Develop patience and tolerance, and pray to Srila Prabhupada from the core of your heart. How is it that he will not help you?
I hope this letter finds you in good health and a blissful mood of Krsna consciousness, Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,
Gour Govinda Swami.
Dated18/12/93

theist · June 10, 2006

Yes but let's remember one need not be a member of ISKCON or any other camp to read Srila Prabhupada's books. Iskcon has as much monopoly on Srila Prabhupada as the present day Christians have on Lord Jesus Christ...none.

Trying to take siksa from everyone who is in the position of guru is not wise. At some point they will contradict each other and then what do you do?

Certainly they are much more advanced than us by far but still they may be some differences however slight so I think it best to hold onto one guru's dhoti and follow him.

This is not a problem if Supersoul reveals your guru to you internally. He may direct someone else to someone else internally as well. "In My Fathers house are many mansions". The nature of spiritual life is not a homogenous state of oneness or sameness. Rather it's one of infinite variety, with souls gravitating to different rasa's in their relationship to Krsna.

Well that goes for teachers as well. Krsna consciousness is not a factory where stereotyped devotees are popped out in some line all conforming to the one that preceded them.

Give each other some room to breath and stop touting your teacher. Tout what he taught about Krsna instead. Krsna Himself is the point of oneness.

June 10, 2006

I BELIEVE what Gour Govinda Maharajji really meant, was that never leave the Eternal ISKCON society. Notice how he doesn't mention ISKCON, INC. Never leave the International Society of Krishna Consciousness, i.e. the International Society of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Just because you aren't part of ISKCON means you can't be a Gaudiya Vaisnava? Please.

Yes, we pay our respects to ISKCON and to all Gaudiya Vaisnavas, and EVEN to those who have just intoned the holy name of God, if even just once. THIS is the conclusion of the 6 Goswamis of Brij and of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Were Svarupa and Rai Ramananda part of ISKCON? Was Gadadhar Pandit part of ISKCON? No need for LIVING Siksa Guru? Why then did Mahaprabhu HIMSELF go to Gadadhar Pandit to hear discourses on the Srimad Bhagavat Mahapurana. Let's be serious here and use some common sense. If you think learning a subject from a book is better than having a living teacher? Then by all means, be my guest. But at times, despite it being Kali Yuga, we've gotta use our common sense.

Why have all our previous acaryas had accepted Living Siksa Gurus at least once in their life? Guru is ONE. Srila Prabhupada is non-different than the Acaryas of our Rupanuga Guru Varga, and he CANNOT instruct differently then what they have done. Despite the fact that he may even INDICATE otherwise. It may seem so, but it is not so.

And to be quite honest, we can learn something from Modern Science after all. Does the theory hold? Do an experiment. JUDGE THE DATA FOR YOURSELF. I grew up in ISKCON, I have seen ISKCON devotees, I have seen Gaudiya Math devotees. And in my humblest of opinions, I have to say that they (the Gaudiya Math) might not dress as nicely (as the silken cloth which cover ISKCON) nor may they eat as nicely (as each Prabhupada disciple's life is gradually claimed by an over-indulgence in Gouranga Potatoes, or my personal favorite - the strawberry cheesecake) But their heart is in the right place. That much is for certain. And as the son of die-hard ISKCON devotees, I MUST say that if you really take the time to open your eyes, and just LOOK out there... for yourselves, and NOT listen to some gargled up batch of quotes posted on Chakra, Pada, the IRM, the Ritviks, or the GBC, or even your local TP you'll find a humble sincere group of devotees ready and willing to accept you with open arms regardless of your decision to go back to ISKCON or not. But what will ISKCON do? Oh, give you a letter banning you from your local temple. Of course, that will be Krishna's mercy, because then you won't really have so much of a choice anymore. "Narayana Maharaja discusses the Rasa Lila openlyNarayana Maharaja doesn't appreciate Prabhupada at all"

These are probably the jist of what any TP will tell you if you ever have the guts to ask him/her about Srila Narayana Maharaja. See for yourself. Go to one of this festivals. Go to a class just once. He only BARELY touches the rasa lila himself after only several days of building up to the point and giving the proper understanding BEFORE he even begins to touch the subject. He is most qualified on the subject matter too in my opinion, he just finished a book on the rasa lila with the commentaries of Sridhar Swami, Sanatana Goswami, Jiva Goswami and Visvanath Cakravarti. I would say he quite learned.

He doesn't appreciate Srila Prabhupada? Why then does he let the Senior Prabhupada Disciples (who have joined him) speak FIRST before even HIMSELF at nearly EVERY festival? Why then does he dedicate his whole day on Srila Prabhuapada's disappearance and appearance speaking Pure Prabhupada Lila and Guru Tattva?

Why not see for yourself? Try to open your heart. And if not Srila Narayana Maharaja, then for your own good, at least accept some living Siksa Guru who helps you increase and improve your relationship with Srila Prabhupada. That is the point of a Siksa Guru (Instructing Guru) to help you learn to appreciate your Diksa Guru (Initiating Guru). And from my experience, he's done nothing but that for me. I've gone to just going to an ISKCON temple and rather relishing the kirtan and the feast (though sleeping during class, along with the one giving the class himself) to crying when I see a picture or movie clip of Our Srila Prabhupada and thinking how merciful he was to all of us. Even the later generation. He helps everyone, and he's even got a major portion of the youth chanting 16 rounds, or more! Miraculous.

June 10, 2006

These followers of Narayana Maharaja keep trying to insult those who do not accept Narayana Maharaja with this same old hackneyed refrain "you must have the sukriti to associate with Narayana Maharaja".

Well, some of us think that it is our sukriti that has saved us from falling for Narayana Maharaja.

Sridhar Maharaja has referred to "the tasting machine is there".

Some of us have tried to taste the sweetness of Narayana Maharaja and all we got was some sand in the sweetrice.

Sweetrice with sand in it is fit for nothing except disposal.

Nectar tasters know nectar when they taste it.

They also know when there is some pollutant in the nectar drink.

June 10, 2006

At least Sridhar Maharaja had the mind to admit "I am not wholly one with Swami Maharaja".

Sridhar Maharaja openly disagreed with some of the things that Srila Prabhupada approved.

Sridhara Maharaja did not approve of showing rasa-lila in portrait or diarama, did not approve of Rathayatra outside of Puri, did not allow certain portions of Caitanyana Caritamrita to be read etc. etc.

On the other hand, Narayana Maharaja keeps trying to present this "I am wholly one with Swami Maharaja" deception while at the same time saying and doing so many things that actually oppose the programs and policies of Srila Prabhupada.

Why doesn't Narayana Maharaja just admit that he had some serious differences with Srila Prabhupada?

Why not?

Because if he did there would be many followers of Srila Prabhupada who would abandon him if he actually told the truth and admitted that he had some serious differences with Srila Prabhupada.

Therefore, he tries to keep up this facade of being in harmony with Srila Prabhupada when in fact he is a sour note.

If Narayana Maharaja ever admitted that he was not in tune with Srila Prabhupada, then his mission to take devotees away from ISKCON would suffer a major blow.

Why can't Narayana Maharaja just admit that he is not in tune with Srila Prabhupada and try to accomplish something with all this deception?

Let him stand on his own merit without claiming to be in tune with Srila Prabhupada.

Then, there should be no problem.

June 10, 2006

Um... I think you fail to realize the whole "see for yourself" type of thing I mentioned in one of my previous posts...

If someone says something, and they're obviously contradicting themselves (which is what you are trying to point out with Srila Narayana Maharaja) Why are there so many of Srila Prabhupada's disciples with him? Don't you think they would be able to figure it out themselves? I mean please, there's a reason they've been following Srila Narayana Maharaja for so many years, and that's because they actually see that he is non-different from Our Srila Prabhupada. He's only accentuating different aspects of Srila Prabhupada which are more applicable for today's depressed-from-ISKCON regular devotee.

June 10, 2006

Um... I think you fail to realize the whole "see for yourself" type of thing I mentioned in one of my previous posts...

If someone says something, and they're obviously contradicting themselves (which is what you are trying to point out with Srila Narayana Maharaja) Why are there so many of Srila Prabhupada's disciples with him? Don't you think they would be able to figure it out themselves? I mean please, there's a reason they've been following Srila Narayana Maharaja for so many years, and that's because they actually see that he is non-different from Our Srila Prabhupada. He's only accentuating different aspects of Srila Prabhupada which are more applicable for today's depressed-from-ISKCON regular devotee.

Well, just don't try to pretend that those who have been in the physical proximity of Narayana Maharaja are the only ones who know what he has said and is saying.

His preachings, sayings and statements are well documented.

You don't have to be in his physical presence to know what he stands for.

It's also peculiar that most of the senior Prabhupada disciples who follow him are also the ones that have the most hatred and bitterness towards the ISKCON GBC. It's almost as if they use Narayana Maharaja as a hammer to beat on the GBC with to try and avenge themselves.

Narayana Maharaja should be judged on his words and his ideals.

Leave aside his holy man profile, his institutional authority and his entourage and just judge him by what HE SAYS!

If you judge him ONLY on what he has SAID, then it is a no-brainer to see that he has criticised and demeaned Srila Prabhupada many times and in so many words.

Anyone who says that Narayana Maharaja is in tune with Srila Prabhupada is both deaf and blind.

They are simply falling for some external profile and some political position against the GBC.

We know well what Narayana Maharaja has said.

It has yet to show any semblance of being in tune with Srila Prabhupada.

June 11, 2006

that SP never wanted that some other people teaches his disciples at least during his presence. Probably he had no faith in any of them. For few extra lessons he would have sent people here and there .

After his departure there was no clear instruction given that you go to X and X and he will be acharya after me. He had faith in his own training and KRISHNA. So by guru's faith and Krishna's mercy some of the disciples seems to be able acharya . I see it like this.

Some of them fall down ,but it is kali yuga and can happen .. Bhakti Siddhanta's disciples also fell down , but what to do .

But here the problem comes for a person to choose guru. We do not know who will fall down next. In that sense if we look for safe person naryan maharaj is one. Then if our desire is intense Lord should tell me in my heart.

So the same cycle KRISNA kripa then guru and Guru Kripa then Krishna.But before this key is Intense desire. So probably we should forget about formal initiation or something. First make our desire intense and krishna will get us a guru.

Now for those people whose guru fell down. May be there desire was not intense , so asked for false thing got false thing.

ys,myview

Puru_Das · June 11, 2006

You like quoting Gaur govinda maharaja (Selectively?). He was also apart of the instituation, a part of the rubber stamping process, although he didnt agree with everything and was harrassed, he for some strange reason stayed with the useless institution till the end. A place where rubber stamping went on, philosophical deviations and aparahad. I dont think he stayed just for the sake of the instituation but he felt helping the instituition will please prabhupada. . . .

There is enough contention on this thread already. We might we better advised to keep the Sampradaya Sun discussions on that website where they belong. I am certain that Bhagavata Prabhu will more than adequately respond to Murali Krsna Swami's advocacy that institutional loyalty supercedes guru, sadhu and shastra.

SGGM had high aspirations for ISKCON, and had Krsna allowed him to stay with us longer I have no doubt he would have even more strenuously opposed the gbc's various apasiddhantic positions.

SGGM was not a blind follower of gbc political agendas. He had read Jaiva Dharma and many other granthas in their original language, and preached very boldly regarding guru tattva, sadhu-sanga and jiva tattva. The gbc was getting ready to remove him from iskcon. He would not be removed and left the planet by Krsna's divine arrangement before the gbc could act against him.

In the light of so much enmity on this thread toward the principle of accepting a siksa guru, or embracing sadhu sanga regardless of Institutional affiliation, his words are certainly worth considering now:

A Society Without Envy

by Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja

[This wonderful lecture was one of the last given by Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja, before departing from this world]

Mayapura: February 21, 1995 - Srimad Bhagavatam 4.18.33 - 36

gunadhikam mudam lipsed

anukrosam gunadhamat

maitrim samanad anvicchen

na tapair abhibhuyate

Translation: Every man should act like this: when he meets a person more qualified than himself he should be very pleased; when he meets someone less qualified than himself, he should be compassionate toward him; and when he meets someone equal to himself, he should make friendship with him. In this way one is never affected by the threefold miseries of this material world.

Purport by Srila Prabhupada: Generally when we find someone more qualified than ourselves, we become envious of him; when we find someone less qualified, we deride him; and when we find someone equal we become very proud of our activities. Theses are the causes of all material tribulations. The great sage Narada therefore advised that a devotee should act perfectly. Instead of being envious of a more qualified man, one should be jolly to receive him. Instead of being oppressive to a less qualified man, one should be compassionate toward him just to raise him to the proper standard. And when one meets an equal, instead of being proud of one's own activities before him, one should treat him as friend. One should also have compassion for the people in general, who are suffering due to forgetfulness of Krsna. These important functions will make one happy within this material world.

Lecture by Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja

These are the instructions of Narada Muni. Narada Muni is a mahajana, and this is mahajana-vakya, the words of a great personality. Mahajana yei kahe, se satya mani --- what a sadhu-mahajana says, that is truth, satya. Mahasano yena gatah sa pranthah --- the mahajana has shown us the path, and that is the path we have to tread. We have to follow the footprints of the mahajanas. There is no need of manufacturing some new path. Here Narada Muni instructs Dhruva Maharaja how to be happy here --- how one should behave and how he should deal with others so that he will never be affected by the threefold miseries of the material world. "When he meets a person more qualified than himself, he should be very pleased; when he meets someone less qualified than himself, he should be compassionate toward him; and when he meets someone equal to himself, he should make friendship with him." These are the dealings of a Vaisnava, a devotee. One who is not a vaisnava, he behaves in the opposite way. As Srila Prabhupada has said in his purport: "Generally we find someone less qualified, we deride him; and when we find someone equal we become very proud of our activities. These are the causes of all material tribulations." Whatever is said here by Narada Muni describes the behavior of a Vaisnava, especially a madhyama-adhikari (second class) Vaisnava.

srimad-bhagvatam pramanam amalam prema pum-artho mahan sri caitany mahaprabhor matam idam tatradaro na parah (Caitanya matta manjusa)

Srimad-Bhagvatam is amala-pramana, the spotless proof, and prema-pum-artho mahan, prema bhakti is the highest truth. These are the opinions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

bhgavati je na mane se yavana sama

tara sasta ache janme hanme prabhu yama

(CB. Adi, 1.39)

On who does not accept Srimad-Bhagavatam is a mleccha and a yavana. He is to be punished by Yamaraj, not for one life, but janme janme -- life after life. So we should accept Srimad Bhagvatam, and all mahajana vakyas are there.

Madhyama-adhikari

These are the dealings of a madhyama-adhikari:

isvare tad-adhinesu

balisesu dvisatsu ca

prema-maitri-krpopeksa

yah karoti sa madhyamah

(Bhag. 11.2.46)

Isvare, one who has developed love for isvara, love for the Supreme Lord Krsna; tad-adhinesu, one who has developed friendship with those who are equal Vaisnavas; balisesu, one who becomes compassionate or merciful towards balisa, ignorant fools, murkha, and dvisatsu ca, one who ignores an offender is a madhyama-adhikari. A madhyama-adhikari behaves in this way.

In Harinama Cintamani also Bhaktivinoda Thakura Mahajana, a great acarya in our Gaudiya Vaisnava-parampara, has said like this:

krsne prema krsna bhakte maitri acarana

balisete krpa ara dvesi upeksana

karile madhyuama-bhakta suddha-bhakta hana

krsna-name adhikara karena arjana

Krsne prema krsna-bhakte maitri acarana, one who develops love for Krsna and makes friendship with krsna bhaktas; balisete krpa, one who becomes compassionate or merciful towards a balisa, a murkha, and ignorant fool; are dvesi upeksana, one who ignores an offender; someone who behaves like this is a madhyama-bhakta. Madhyama-bhakta suddha--bhakta hana, such a madhyama-bhakta becomes a suddha-bhakta, a pure devotee. Then what happens? Krsna-name adhikara karena arajana, then he gets adhikara (qualification) in chanting krsna-nama. This is Bhaktivinoda Thakura's instruction.

Kanistha-adhikari

In this connection we'll also speak about who is a kanishta-adhikari:

arcayam eva haraye

pujam yah sraddayehate

na tad-bhaktesu canyesu

sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah

(Bhag. 11.2.47)

A kanistha-adhikari is one who offers worship to the Deity form of Lord Hari, arca-vigraha, according to laukika-sraddha (ordinary faith), not sastriya-sraddha (faith based on sastra). It is a question of sraddha. Two types of sraddha are there, sastriya-sraddha and laukika sraddha. When we speak of sraddha we mean sastriya-sraddha. One should develop sastriya-sraddha, not laukika sraddha. And, na tad-bhaktesu canyesu sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah, one who doesn't pay respect to hari bhakta, the devotee of Lord Hari, and isn't compassionate toward other living entities in whom Lord Hari is present, he is a kanistha-bhakta.

Uttama-adhikari

Then who is an uttama-adhikari?:

sarva-bhutesu yah pasyed

bhagavad-bhavam atmanah

bhutani bhagavaty atmany

esa bhagavatottamah

"The most advanced devotee sees within everything the soul of all souls, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna. Consequently he sees everything in relation to the Supreme Lord and understands that everything that exists is eternally situated within the Lord." (Bhag. 11.2.45) Also in Caitanya-caritamrta, Stavara-jangama dekhe, na dekhe tara murti

Sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti (Madhya 8.274)

This is uttama-adhikari. He sees the moving and nonmoving entities, sthaivara-jangama, but he never sees their outward form. What does he see? He sees his ista, his most beloved Deity, Krsna, everywhere, sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti. This is a completely Krsna conscious person. And who is completely Krsna conscious and what is complete Krsna consciousness? Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita:

yo man pasyati sarvatra

sarvan ca mayi pasyati

tasyaham na panasyami

sa ca me napanasyati

(Bg. 6.30)

"One who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, he is completely Krsna conscious, tasyaham na panasyami sa ca mena panasyati. I am never out of his sight and he is never out of my sight. He sees Me, I see him. This is complete krsna consciousness. That is an uttama-adhikari. Stavara-jangama dekhe, na dekhe tara murti, sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti, he sees moving and nonmoving entities but never sees the outward form. Everywhere he sees his ista, his most beloved Deity, who is there in the heart, Lord Krsna. That is an uttama-adhikari.

Then there is bhagavata-uttama. Who is a bhagavata-uttama?

visrjati hrdayam na yasya saksad

dharir avasabhihito Œpy aghaugha-nasah

pranaya-rasanaya dhrtanghri-padmah

sa bhavati bhagavata-pradhana uktah

"One who chants the holy name of the Supreme Lord, Hari, even unconsciously is freed from all sins. When Lord Hari grants liberation from sin to one who even unconsciously or negligently chants His holy name, the position of one who never abandons the shelter of His lotus feet must be considered highly exalted. Such a devotee can never give up the association of the Lord, nor can the Lord give up his association of the Lord, nor can the Lord give up his association. Krsna Himself dwells eternally within his heart. Such a great soul is known as bhagavata-pradhana --- the most exalted devotee of the Lord."

(Bhag. 11.2.55)

By uttering the name of hari all sinful reactions are destroyed, and that Hari is bound up in the heart of a Vaisanva, pranaya-rasanaya, but the rope of love. In other words, Lord Hari never leaves the heart of such a Vaisnava, a bhagavata-uttama.

According to Faith

Also in Caitanya-caritamrta Kaviraja Gosvami has spoken of these three types of Vaisnavas.

Sraddhavan jana haya bhakti-adhikari

Œuttama', Œmadhyamna', Œkanistha'---sraddha anusari

(CC. Madhya 22.64)

According to one's sraddha, faith, one's eligibility for bhakti is classified as uttama, madhyama or kanistha.

sastra-yuktye sunipuna, drdha-sraddha yanra

Œuttama-adhikari' sei taraye samsara

(CC. Madhya 22.65)

One who is very expert in presenting sastric evidences and who has unflinching faith in sadhu-sastra-guru, unflinching faith in Krsna, drdha-sraddha, he is uttama-adhikari. Taraye samsara, he can deliver the whole world.

sastra yukti nahi jane drdha, sraddhavan

madhyama-adhikari sei maha-bhagyavan

(CC. Madhya 22.67)

Who is madhyama-adhikari? He doesn't know so much sastra-yukti, logical arguments on the basis of revealed scripture, but he is drdha sraddhavan, he has strong faith in sadhu-sastra-guru, strong faith in Krsna. Sadgati-padata krsne karaha visvasa, put complete faith, unflinching faith, in Krsna, who is adgati-padata. One who does so is madhyama-adhikari. Sei maha-bhagyavan, he is very fortunate.

Two Kinds of Faith

Yahara komala sraddha, se Œkanistha' jana

Krame krame tenho bhakta haibe Œuttama'

(CC. Madhya 22.69)

One who has not developed sastriya-sraddha (faith in sastra) but has developed only laukika-sraddha (faith in what common people say), he is kanistha-adhikari. Sastriya-sraddha is described in Caitanya-caritamrta:

Œsraddha'‹sabde---visvasa kahe sudrdhna niscaya krsne bhakti kaile sarva karma krta jaya (CC. Madhya 22.62)

Sraddha means visvas, faith, sudrdha, very strong faith, unflinching faith. Faith in what? Faith in sadhu-sastra-guru, faith in Krsna. This is faith. If someone develops krsna-bhakti, all his activities are finished, krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. Nothing is left out if you have faith.

yahara koimala sraddha, se'kanistha'jana

krame krama tenho bhakta haive'uttama'

(CC Madhya 22.69)

Whose sraddha is soft, who has not developed sastriya-sraddha, only laukika-sraddha, he is kanistha jana, a neophyte. By associating with more elevated Vaisnavas, hearing from them and putting firm faith in their words, gradually he will make advancement and ultimately also become uttama.

What is sastriya-sraddha and what is laukika-sraddha? Sastriya sraddha means unflinching faith in the sastriya siddhantas, the teachings which are given especially as found in the Srimad Bhagavatam, which is the essence of all Vedas, Vedanta, and Upanishadas:

sarva-vedanta-saram hi

srimad-bhagavatam isyate

tad-rasamrta-trptasya

nanyatra syad ratih kvacit

(Bhag. 12.13.15)

Srila Jiva Gosvami has put emphasis on sastriya-sraddha. One should develop sastriya-sraddha, not laukika-sraddha. One who is a neophyte devotee, a kanistha-adhikari, he has only faith in the words of materialistic people, materialistic scientists, philosophers, etc. He has not developed faith in the words of sadhus, Vaisnavas, mahajanas, those who are acaryas.

For example, people in this locality say, "Oh there is a ghost in that tree." Then someone comes and hears from them. He says, "Oh, the people say there is a ghost in that tree." If he comes to this area when the electricity is off and there is dense darkness, he may see something --- as if someone is standing there wearing white cloth. "Oh, yes! A ghost is there." Because he has heard it from these people. This is laukika-sraddha. But when the electricity comes, he sees, "Oh, what is this" Oh, it is only a dead tree". Because it looks white he thinks it is a ghost.

We should not develop laukika-sraddha. We should develop sastriya-sraddha. Unless you develop sastriya-sraddha, unless you deal with others as Narada Muni has instructed here, then you will be affected by the threefold miseries of this material world. You will never be happy

Vaisnava aparadha

So who are offenders? Skanda Purana states that there are six types of offenders and they all fall down and go to raurava, naraka (hell).

nindam kurvanti ye mudha

vaisnavanam mahatmanam

patanti pitrbhih sardham

maharaurava-samjnite

hanti nindati vai dvesthi

vaisnavan-nabhi-nandati

krudhyate yati na harsam

darsane patanani sat

Skanda Purana says, nindam kurvanti ye mudha vaisnavanam mahatmanam --- those who blaspheme a mahatma Vaisnava, they are great offenders. Patanti pitrbhih sardham maharaurava-samhnite - they definitely go to maha-raurava, naraka. Not only them, but pitrbhih (all his ancestors also). The six types of offenders are: those who try to kill a Vaisnava; those who blaspheme a Vaisnava; those who upon seeing a Vaisnava do not pay pranama, obeisances, those who become angry with a Vaisnava; those who develop enmity with a Vaisnava; and those who upon seeing a Vaisnava do not become jolly, but instead curve their faces, "Oh who is he!" They are offenders. Here Prabhupada says, "Instead of being envious of a more qualified man, one should be jolly to receive him." Instead of becoming jolly, such a person becomes envious and covers his face. He is an offender. These six types of offenders fall down to maha-raurava, naraka.

See Krsna Everywhere

Srila Prabhupada formed this society for Krsna consciousness. It is a society of Vaisnavas. Why did he form the society? Because those who will become members of this society should develop complete Krsna consciousness. That opportunity is given here.

yo mam pasyati sarvatra

sarvam camayi pasyati

tasyaham na pranasyami

sa ca me na panasyati

(Bg. 6.30)

This Bhagavad-gita verse describes complete Krsna consciousness. Krsna says that one who sees Him everywhere, stharva-jangama dekhe, na dekhe tara murti, sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti, he sees the different moving and nonmoving entities, but he never sees their outward form. He sees his ista, his move beloved Diety, Krsna everywhere. Who is such a person?

bhakta ama preme bandhiyache hrdaya-bhitare

jahan netra pade tahan dekhaye amare

(Cc. Madhya 25.127)

That devotee who as bound Me up in his heart with the rope of love, jahan netra pade tahan dekhaye amare such a bhakta, wherever he looks he sees Me. Such a premi-bhakta, who has bound up Krsna with the rope of love in his heart, he can see Krsna everywhere. Otherwise no one can see Krsna everywhere.

Krsna also says:

naham prakasah sasrvasya

yoga-maya-samavrtah

mudho'yam nabhijanati

loko mam ajam avyayam

(Bg. 7.25)

These are the words of Krsna. "I am never manifest before everyone, I am never manifest everywhere. I am covered by My yoga-maya potency. Mudho Œyam nabhijanati. Krsna says they are mudhas, rascals, "They cannot see Me. They cannot understand Me." In other words, Krsna keeps Himself hidden. But if Krsna keeps Himself hidden, how can we see Him? Who can see Him? Bhakta ama preme bandhiyache hrdaya-bhitare, jahannetra pade tahan dekhaye amare. Only such a premi-bhakta can see Him, one who has developed krsna-prema, who has bound up Krsna in his heart with the rope of love. This bondage is very, very strong. Even Krsna, who is almighty, cannot break it. He says na paraye na paraye na paraye, I cannot, I cannot, I cannot. Such bondage is so strong. Krsna cannot keep Himself hidden before the eyes of such a premi-bhakta. A premi-bhakta sees Him everywhere, though Krsna keeps Himself hidden.

Society Without Envy

This is the society for Krsna consciousness formed by Srila Prabhupada. One who becomes a member of this society gets the opportunity to develop complete Krsna consciousness, to see Krsna everywhere.

yo mam pasyati sarvatra

sarvam ca mayi pasyati

tasyaham na panansyami

sa ca me na panasyati

(Bg. 6.30)

This is the goal. Prabhupada has written in his books, "The Krsna consciousness movement aims at creating an atmosphere of non-envy. Of course, it is not possible for everyone to become Krsna conscious, but the Krsna consciousness movement can create an exemplary society wherein there is no envy." Where is the question of enviousness? One who is envious is not a Krsna conscious person. In other words, he is not a Vaisnava. A real Vaisnava sadhu is not at all envious. He sees every jiva as Krsna's jiva. Krsna is the object of his love, so how will he be envious?

Enviousness means lust. What does that mean? Pride is your enemy, crookedness (kapata). If someone is making advancement on the spiritual path, others become envious of him. They cannot tolerate it. "Oh, he is making such advancement." They start to speak all nasty things about him. Combining together, they start pulling down on him and attacking him. This is enviousness. In a society of Vaisnavas that should not be done. A Vaisnava is not envious at all, atra paramo nirmatsaranam satam vedyam. Who understands bhagavata-dharma-tattva? Only a Vaisnava, who is non-envious can understand. Others will speculate, "Oh, this is that, this is that." Only speculation will go on because they cannot understand. They are not Vaisnavas, they are all envious persons. Prabhupada says, "One who is envious of the success of a Vaisnava is certainly not a Vaisnava himself but an ordinary mundane man." He may be pretending to be a Vaisnava, but actually he is only an ordinary mundane man.

If the purpose of forming his society fails, how will Sria Prabhupada be happy ? This is a most important factor. So here it is said, "Generally when we find someone more qualified than ourselves, we become envious of him." This is the general nature of people who are avaisnavas; who are not Vaisnavas, they become envious when they see a person more qualified than themselves. But a Vaisnava, who is completely Krsna conscious, he'll never become envious. "Instead of being envious of a more qualified man one should be jolly to receive him." Krsne prema krsna-bhakte maitri acarana -- he who develops krsna-prema, he develops friendship with Vaisnavas, krsna-bhaktas. And when he sees a more qualified Vaisnava than himself he becomes jolly. That is a real Vaisnava, a pure Vaisnava. This is the purpose for which Srila Prabhupada formed this society for Krsna consciousness.

Compassion

Therefore Prabhupada says, “The Krsna consciousness movement can create an exemplary society wherein there is no envy at all." Prabhupada says in the concluding lines of his purport, "One should also have compassion for the people in general who are suffering due to forgetfullness of Krsna.” Who becomes compassionate for the people in general? One who is a completely Krsna conscious person, who sees Krsna everywhere; only he can become compassionate. Otherwise, how can one have compassion? The jiva is suffering. He is Krsna's jiva, so why is he suffering? It's because of his forgetfulness of Krsna. One who sees Krsna and who sess the jiva's relationsip with Krsna, he becomes compassionate. Otherwise, there is no question of compassion. This is most important. Only such a Vaisnava who sees Krsna everywhere is a completely Krsna conscious person. He becomes compassionate.

Prahlada Maharaja, a pure devotee, saw his most beloved Lord in a stone pillar. "Yes, the lord is everywhere." However when his very powerful demoniac father Hiranyakasipu, who had conquered the three worlds, heard his son Prahlada Maharaja speak like this, he became angry, "Why you say He's everywhere. Is He there in this stone pillar?" Who sees? A completely Krsna conscious person, a premi-bhakta, always sees. Bhakta ama preme bandhiyache hrdanya-bhitare, jahan netra pade tahan dekhaye amare; wherever he looks he sees Krsna. Krsna gives him darsana. Krsna cannot keep Himself hidden from the vision of such a completely Krsna conscious person, a premi-bhakta, always sees. Bhakta ama preme bandhiyache hrdaya-bhitare, jahan netra pade tahan dekhaye amare; wherever he looks he sees Krsna. Krsna gives him darsana. Krsna cannot keep Himself hidden form the vision of such a completely Krsna conscious person, premi-bhakta. The premi-bhakta says, "Yes, He's there." But his demoniac father, who had conquered over the three worlds, could not see.

It is a question of vision. One who sees Krsna everywhere, one who sees krsna-sambandha; the relationship with Krsna, that the jiva is suffering because of a lack of Krsna consciousness, he will think , "Let me go and inculcate Krsna consciousness into others." That is the real beneficial work. Therefore, if one develops Krsna consciousness, understands his position, and establishes his relationship with Krsna, there will be no suffering at all. Such a Vaisnava who sees Krsna and krsna-sambandha everywhere, his heart bleeds seeing the suffering of the jivas here. He cannot sit tightly. He will go out and preach the science of Krsna consciousness. "Yes, let everyone be Krsna conscious, let everyone be happy."

Prabhupada's Purpose

Therefore, in this verse Narada Muni sayus, "Every man should act like this." So there will be no miseries at all. This world will be turned into a vaikuntha jagat, "When he meets a person more qualified than himself he should be very pleased." There should be no enviousness. This enviousness is one of your enemies. Kama, kridha, lobha, moha, mada, matsarya; in Sanskrit it is matsarya. Enviousness is one of your six enemies.

The second verse of Bhagavatam says, darmah projhita-kaitavo Œtra paramo nirmatsaranam satam vedyam. Who can understand bhagavata-dharma-tattva; what is said in Srimad-Bhagavatam? Paramo nirmatsaranam stam bedyam. Satam means devotee, Vaisnavas. Paramo nirmatsaranam; those who are not envious at all. Only they can understand Srimad-Bhagavatam. Only they can understand bhagavata-dharma-tattva. Otherwise the Bhagavata will never appear, never manifest at all. This is a most important thing and this is the purpose for which Srila Prabhupada formed the Society for Krsna Consciousness. The Krsna consciousness movement aims at creating an atmosphere of non-envy. "Of course it is not possible for everyone to become Krsna conscious, but the Krsna movement can create an exemplary society wherein there is no envy." This is the purpose of Srila Prabhupada, the Founder-Acarya of ISKCON, International Society for Krsna Conscoiusness; that all should be pure Vaisnavas, Vaisnava in the true sense. A Vaisnava is not envious. He's nirmatsara, not envious at all. That is Vaisnava. Here Prabhupada says, "Generally when we find someone more qualified than ourselves we become envious of him." All mahajanas have said. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has said. Sastra says. Narada Muni, a mahajana, here he says.

Wicked Person

Bhaktivinoda Thakura Mahajana, who is considered the Seventh Goswami, a great acarya in our Gaudiya-Vaisnava-parampara has said (Sarangati 4):

parere udvegadiyachi je kata

diyachi jivere klesa

I am such a rascal, such an envious person. I always give pain to others and put them in anxiety.

nija sukha lagi'pape nahi dori

daya-hina svartha-para

I am very selfish for my own name, fame, adoration and prestige‹for my own happiness.

I am not afraid of committing any sinful activity. Daya-hita, I am a merciless preson a greatly selfish person.

Para sudhe dukhisada mithya-bhasi

Para-dukha sukha-kara

When I see someone is becoming more advanced it is very painful to me, so I become envious. Sada-mithya, I only speak lies. Para-dukha sukha-kara, when I see someone is suffering I become jolly, "Yes, very good, very good!"

asesa kamanahrdi majhe mora

krodhi dambha-parayana

So many material desires are there in my heart. I gen angry in flimsy cases. Dambha-parayana. I am proud, puffed up fellow, "I am great! Is there anyone greater than I?" Especially in Kali yuga, the most degraded age, this pride is the measuring rod. Everyone thinks, "I am great" Then another says, "What? You are great? I am great!" Then fighting , quarrelling begins. This is Kali yuga. This dambha, pride, is the measuring rod. Two persons quarrel. Two groups quarrel. Two neighbors quarrel and fight. Two states, two nations, "I am great! Hey! What are you? You are great? I am great!!" Then fighting. This is dambha (pride).

mada-matta sadavisaye mohita

himsa-garva vibhusana

I am always puffed-up and proud, intoxicated with the desire for material enjoyment. I am a great materialistic person, and hims-garva, always envious and proud. These are my ornaments, vibhusana.

nidralasya hata sukarye virata

akarye udyogi ami

pratistha lagiyasathya-arcana

lobha-hata sada kami

Such a person is a lazy fellow. He sleeps too much and never does any good work. He is always very enthusiastic to do evil, nasty, abominable activities for his own prestige, name fame and adoration. Sathya-arcana, he acts in a very duplicitous, crooked way. Lobha-hata sada kami, so much lust is in his heart.

e heno durjanasajana-varjita

aparadhi nirantara

This is durjana, not sajjana. Such a person is rejected by sajjanas. He is always an aparadhi, a great offender, so his dealings are very crooked, duplicitous dealings. As it is said in the verse, "When one finds someone more qualified than himself he becomes envious of him. When one finds someone less qualified he derides him. When one finds someone equal with him he becomes proud of his activities. These are the causes of all material tribulations. "Such a person is a durjana, a most wicked person. He is not a sajjana. He's an aparadhi, always a great offender.

subha-karya-sunyasada-anartha-mana

nana dukhe jara-jara

He never does anything auspicious. He's covered up, surrounded with so many anarthas. He's nana dukhe jara-jara, always afflicted, by the threefold miseries of this material world. He will never be happy at all.

This is the statement of Narada Muni, "Every man should act like this: when he meets a person more qualified than himself, he should be very pleased; when he meets someone less qualified than himself, he should be compassionate toward him; and when he meets someone equal to himself, he should make friendship with him." Otherwise he'll suffer. "In this way one is never affected by the threefold miseries of this world." This is the statement of sadhu-sastra-mahajanas.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Devotee: I appreciate very much that you explained to us how Srila Prabhupada's purpose is to create a society without envy.

Gour Govinda Swami: That I quoted from Prabhupada's purports from Srimad-Bhagavatam.

Devotee: We see that amongst devotees that are most advanced, the principle is trnad api sunincena taror api sahisnuna. It's not an artificial thing to actually believe…

Gour Govinda Swami: Not artificial, baba! How many days can you act like this? Before your svarupa (real form) will be revealed! How many days can it go on artificially. But with a Vaisnava it's quite natural.

Devotee: My question is, Srila Prabhupada has said that even if one does not have the practical vision that Krsna is behind everything, is in everything, and is connected to everything, still, if one understands this theoretically he is a devotee that is rightly situated.

Gour Govinda Swami: Rightly situated? One who sees theoretically is rightly situated?

Real Compassion?

Devotee: But if one has theoretical understanding that he has gotten form the words of the spiritula master, then one is rightly situated. So in your class you said that only the topmost devotee can be compassionate.

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, only one who sees Krsna.

Devotee: So my question is, does that mean no one else can be compassionate?

Gour Govinda Swami: One may be compassionate to fulfill his own selfish desire. One may be compassionate to some and not compassionate to others. He has raga and dvesa, liking and disliking. He is not equal to one and all. He cannot be. Unless one sees Krsna how can he be compassionate? He will see, this is Krsna's jiva suffering. His heart bleeds. He cannot sit tight. He will go out and preach Krsna consciousness. And who preaches? Prana ache yara, sei hetu pracara; one who has life? What is life? Jivanam sarva-bhutesu. Krsna says, "I am jivan, I am the life in all living entities." One who sees Krsna everywhere. Who sees Krsna's jiva suffering because of forgetfulness of Krsna, because of a lack of Krsna conscoiusness; he has prana, life. He goes out and preaches. He is completely surrendered to Krsna. Therefore Krsna came as Mahaprabhu, as a bhakta (a devotee), to teach devotion, to teach how to surrender unto Krsna (sikhaya sarangati bhakater prana). Saranagati is the life of the devotee who is completely surrendered. Krsna tare kore atmasara (then Krsna accepts him). Prana ache yara, sei hetu pracara (he has got life, therefore he goes out and preaches). Otherwise, who can preach? How can one preach unless one sees Krsna, sees Krsna's jiva suffering? He does not want anyone to suffer. Everyone should be Krsna conscious. Therefore, here Narada Muni says that everyone should act like this. This is the purpose of Srila Prabhupada forming the society for Krsna consciousness.

Uttama Acting as Madhyama

Devotee: Maharaja, a madhyama-adhikari has strong faith in the process of Krsna consciousness but he doesn't have a very good knowledge of the scriptures. How can he preach if he doesn't have good knowledge of the scriptures?

Gour Govinda Swami: He should have it by associating with an uttama adhikari. He should get it. Maha-bhagyavan, he's very fortunate [the madhyama-adhikari] because he has strong faith. This is most important. Adau sraddha, the first thing is your faith. He has strong faith in the words of sadhu-sastra-guru. He has strong fiath in Krsna. He puts faith in Krsna, in the words of Krsna. And sadhus, those who are mahajanas, they speak what Krsna has said.

Devotee: If an uttama-adhikari wants to preach, generally he comes down to the level of madhyama and acts like a madhyama.

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Otherwise he cannot preach, because an uttama-adhikari sees moving and nonmoving living entities, but he never sees the outward form. He always sees Krsna.

sthavara-jangama dekhe,na dekhe tara murti

sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti

(Madhya 8.274)

He sees only Krsna. He says, "Oh, this living entity is Krsna's devotee, he is engaged in Krsna's service." He never sees the outward form. His vision is completely different. Therefore he steps down to madhyama, otherwise how can he speak? How can he see that the jiva is suffering from a lack of Krsna consciousness, from forgetfulness of Krsna? Therefore, one who preaches, he steps down to madhyama-adhikari; but he's uttama-adhikari, otherwise he cannot preach. Those who are uttama-bhagavata, cannot preach. Therefore, one who preaches steps down to the madhyama-adhikari stage. But he is not a madhyama as described here, sastra-yukti nahi jane; who doesn't know sastra. The uttama-adhikari knows sastra. Such an uttama-adhikari who acts as a madhyama-adhikari is not like the general type of madhyama-adhikari, madhyama-bhakta. This madhyuama-adhikari, he is uttama-adhikari, but he has stepped own. He knows sastra and he is very expert in presenting and quoting sastric evidences, because, tasmac chastram pramanam te karyakarya-vyavasthitau (Bg. 16.24). This is sastra-pramana. What is to be done, karya, and what is not to be done, akarya; how can we decide? Unless he presents sastra-pramana, how can he decide what is to be done and what is not to be done? He is not a general ordinary madhyama-adhikari.

Preaching

Devotee: One who has laukika-sraddha has to act under the guidance of one who has sastriy-sraddha?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, he should have a guru, a bonafide Vaisnava guru. He should do bhajana under such expert guidance. He should not act whimsically. Unless you have guru, how can you preach? Sravana kirtana, preaching means kirtana. Unless one has heard from a bona fide guru, what will he preach? What he has heard, he will say that thing. "I have heard this from authorities, from my guru." Preaching is another name for sravana, another name for hearing. What I've heard I'm repeating. Therefore, only one who has heard, he can preach and do kirtana. Otherwise who can do kirtana? One who has not heard, what will he say, and who will hear all those nasty things?

Devotee: Many disciples of Srila Prabhupada were preaching under the orders of Srila Prabhupada and, seeing the miseries of the people, were spreading Srila Prabhupada's teachings. Now many have stopped preaching.

Gour Govinda Swami: One who has life and sees Krsna can never stop preaching. He sees, "Krsna's jiva is suffering." He will preach in spite of all obstacles. When Bhaktivinoda Thakura became very old he had to lift up his eyelids to see. But even at that age he would say "I want to ride on a horse and go out and preach." One whose heart bleeds, who has compassion, he says such a thing. It is a question of compassion. Are you preaching out of compassion? One who is not preaching out of compassion, he may preach for some days, but then he stops. "I lost all my enthusiasm.Oh, why did you lose it? You lost Krsna?"

Devotee: There are some that are still trying to preach, can we say they are actually keeping the orders of Srila Prabhupada?

Throw the Vedas

Gour Govinda Swami: Prabhupada said to keep Krsna. He came to give you Krsna. Following the siddhanta, he said, "Let them somehow be attracted to Krsna." That was his aim. He went to the land of mlecchas and yavanas, the Western countries, and gave Krsna to them. How can they understand? They cannot understand all this sastra now.

Why did Buddha Deva, who was an incarnation of Lord Visnu say, "Throw out the Vedas." How can Visnu, who is the source of the Vedas, say like that? He is so compassionate. What were they doing? They were killing animals, sadaya-hrdaya darsita-pasu-ghatam. His heart became so compassionate, seeing this killing "Hey! Stop this killing!" They replied, "Oh, it is described in the Vedas. Why you are stopping?" So Buddha Deva said, "Throw out the Vedas." Why does he speak like that? Because unless they stop killing they cannot come ot the stage of sattva; goodness. They are in the modes of ignorance and passion. They cannot understand the Vedas. So he did like that. This is not siddhanta. Then all the Buddhists said, "Oh Buddha Deva said we can throw out the Vedas." The result was that they became nastika, atheists. But the Vedas can not be lost. The Vedas are apauruseya they come from the Lord, so they should be established. Therefore the Supreme Lord Narayana gave the order of the very powerful Lord Siva, "You go, Mahadeva. You go and establish the Vedas, but keep Me hidden." Then what did Siva establish? The gauna portion of the Vedas, the secondary portion (karma-kanda jnana-kanda). Sankaracarya came to do this. He thought. “This is the order of my master. I am the order carrier.”

====================================================================================

APPENDIX

Pure devotees of the Lord recognize each other when they meet in this material world. They know each other because they are eternally related and know each other from Goloka Vrndavan. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur recognized each other. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur recognized so many of his pure devotee disciples, Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaj, Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaj, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Srila BhaktiPromode Puri Maharaj, Srila Bhakti Kumud Santa Maharaj. Our Srila Prabhupada similarly recognized Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaj, who in turn recognized Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj. They are all Lord Caitanya's men, and if we are fortunate we can also recognize them as our gurudevas,

vande ham sri-guroh sri yuta-pada-kamalam sri gurun vaisnavams ca sri-rupam sagrajatam saha gna-raghunathanvitam tam sa-jivam sadvaitam savadhutam prijana-sahitam krsna-caitanya-devam sri radha-krsna-padan saha-gana-lalita-sri viskanvitams ca.

“I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master and unto the feet of all Vaisnavas. I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Srila Rupa Goswami along with his elder brother Sanatana Goswami, as well as Raghunatha Dasa and Raghunatha Bhatta, Gopala Bhatta, and Srila Jiva Goswami.. I offer my respectful obeisances to Lord Krsna Caitanya and Lord Nityananda aong with Advaita Acarya.”

Sri-gurun, plural not singular, unto the feet of all Vaisnavas.

----Bvml.org Editors

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja’s Visit to Bali

December 17<SUP>th</SUP> thru 21<SUP>st</SUP>, 1998

by Sridam Sakha dasa

First Day, Thursday 17 December 1998

Srila Gurudeva arrived in Bali on 17th December with his Indian brahmacaris and immediate travelling party. Most of us had already arrived two days before.

Srila Gurudeva was driven from the airport to the house of Ananta Krsna prabhu and Rangavati didi where he also stayed one year before. His hosts had adorned their house very beautifully in traditional style to welcome Srila Gurudeva. Various exotic flowers had been strung crisscross between the gateway and front door and many palm leaf decorations had been hung wall to wall, woven ingeniously into a number of different designs. The temple room is the largest room of the house, and it was there that Srila Gurudeva spoke for a short while upon arrival. The temple's simhasana was made from wood and was beautifully carved in an ornate and intricate way. At the front were small wooden sliding doors, the right one of which had a carved relief of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu on it, while the left was decorated with a corresponding Lord Nityananda.

Srila Gurudeva spoke praisingly about the beautiful culture of Bali and the many similarities between Bali and India, saying that he was reminded of the villages of Bengal and Orissa. He also remarked on the similarities of cultures too, particularly the beautiful art and architecture. He then expressed his appreciation at being able to stay in a place where Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Maharaja had sojourned in the past, on at least five occasions.

"The reverent and honorable Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja used to come and stay here also. You have kept a room for him here. You were so lucky to serve him. He was so bold to speak true siddhanta, too bold. That is why in a very few days he became so popular and the leaders became very fearful 'We'll lose all our disciples to Gour Govinda Maharaja' and that is why they wanted to ban him from ISKCON. And that is why he left this world. He thought that it would be better to leave than to be banned. He was not a person to be banned. He was following in the line of Srila Rupa Gosvami preaching raga-marga, not only vaidhi, and I also want to be bold like him. The teachings of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura may seem like vaidhi-bhakti, but they are not. If you hear his teachings very patiently then raganuga will gradually come, some greed. But if not then you are bogus, you should go to another sampradaya like the Sri-sampradaya of Ramanuja or the Rudra-sampradaya of Sri Visnusvami. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not come to give only vaidhi. He came to give the seed of krsna-seva-barsana in the hearts of devotees, this was His main objective, and that of Srila Rupa Gosvami and his followers.

"We have not come to make any problem, to make money, to make disciples or take them from others. We've come to help as Lord Nityananda and Haridasa Thakura did even though they were abused. But no harm. We have not come for any rivalry. Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja came to preach the mission of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and so have we, to touch the hearts of devotees and help them if they need it. But I know they do, surely. After Srila Svami Maharaja and Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja left, their disciples and followers were like a paddy (rice) field, starting to dry. So much rain was coming but it was not touching that field. And what is this water that is needed? The hari-katha from a pure devotee of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who has not come for self gain, but only to give what the Lord came to give. That water is hari-katha. So we want to give it to devotees, so that they should again become inspired. I want their creepers of bhakti to go up so that many sweet fruits should grow and that they will be able to taste them."

Srila Gurudeva then talked to Ananta prabhu about what the daily program should be during his stay in Bali. Ananta prabhu told Srila Gurudeva that he had invited many local spiritual leaders to come and hear Srila Gurudeva's classes. Srila Gurudeva asked Ananta prabhu how progress on the temple building project was going, to which Ananta prabhu said that it was 75% finished.

"Vande ham sru-guroh sri-yuta-pada-kamalam sri-gurun vaisnavams ca!" sri gurun!!! I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master and unto the feet of all Vaisnavas. All glories to Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja! Satyam eva jayate (Bg. 10.4-5): truthfulness.

Many of Srila Gaura Govinda Maharaja's articles are found on my website.

http://bvml.org/SGGM/index.htm

It is Murali Krsna Swami who is trying be an advocate of institutional loyalty. SGGM's remarks shouldn't be taken out of context.

Is Prabhupad in Goloka?

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