Oneness and Manyness of Forms (What Parasara Advocates...)

[Guest guest]

A teacher once told me a story, rather crude for this august forum

perhaps:

 

Once there was a young man who owned a diamond. It was large and

shiny and very hypnotic to look at.

 

The man looked at it every day, then every hour and at the same time

grew increasingly afraid of loss and thieves etc.

 

He started practicing seeing the diamond in his mind's eye. When he

got really good at it, he buried the diamond in the ground and

practiced seeing it daily, then more often.

 

In the middle of night when no one was watching he would dig a hole

and make sure that the diamond was still there.

 

He was getting much older and digging was becoming a problem and he

could not trust anyone enough to do it for him.

 

So he started working on the belief that the diamond is really there

even if he cannot see it. He more or less succeeded. Once in a while

pangs of uncertainty and doubts will arise but he quashed those,

until he needed confirmation any more!

 

A thief stole the diamond and carefully patched the soil.

 

The old man with his nearly gone physical eyesight approached the

site, next morning and happily smiled at the site where he had buried

the diamond.

 

The physical diamond was gone, but not the old man's diamond!

 

 

 

 

 

, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr

wrote:

>

> Pranaam Sanjay,

>

> > This statement of philosophy is fine for beginners and the list.

Don't waste

> > my time with this.

> > That is why I say that the understanding of jyotish depends on

how high one

> > gets in undrstanding the philosophies.

>

> I tried my best to highlight how all forms essentially give a

similar experience after you reach a certain spiritual development

stage and yet how choice of a specific form can be important in

deciding how fast you reach that stage. IMHO, there are many valuable

lessons hidden in the analogy I put forward.

>

> Out of all the mails I have written on this subject so far, I

personally consider the latest mail the best and the most lucid.

Unfortunately, I cannot expect everyone to share my sentiments! So,

thank you for your feedback.

>

> I am sorry my effort was found to be a waste of time by you. I will

try to not waste your time in future.

>

> > Pranam Narasimhaji,

> >

> > This is is beautiful write up.

> >

> > With my limited understanding, I would surely belive the

statement:

> > "But a devotee of Kaali like Ramakrishna will eventually reach

the

> > stage where he sees Kaali in flowers, trees etc (just as you may

> > aspire to see Vishnu in everything). A great devotee of Shiva

will

> > eventually see Shiva in everything."

> >

> > Paramhamsa Yogananda saw Kali in the vastness of the night sky.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Souvik

>

> Dear Souvik, thank you for your kind words.

>

> Also, Hari, thank you for quoting Abhinava Vidyatirtha

Mahaswamigal. Very wise words indeed.

>

> May the light of Brahman shine within,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------------

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------------

>

> > | om gurave namah |

> > Dear Narasimha

> > This statement of philosophy is fine for beginners and the list.

Don't waste

> > my time with this.

> > It is obvious that it is you who is still stuck with name and are

not

> > willing to accept that vishnu really means sarva-vyapakesa or

shiva is a

> > bala-naama (Dayananda saraswati in Rig Veda translation) etc.

> > That is why I say that the understanding of jyotish depends on

how high one

> > gets in undrstanding the philosophies.

> > In any case this still does not give your viewpoint about 9th

house and 12th

> > house and form etc...so I am ending the discussion here as I

leave you to

> > think.

> > I am going to be off lists for a month at least for now as I have

to go to

> > Novi Sad, Serbia.

> > Best wishes and warm regards,

> > Sanjay Rath

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > Pranaam Sanjay,

> >

> > > (1) Given that Parasara explicitly mentioned Shiva and Gouri in

the

> > context

> > > of ishta devata, I take objection to anyone who claims that

they cannot be

> > > ishta devatas and only Vishnu's forms can be.

> > > [s.Rath:] Again form! There is no form in the 12th house. There

cannot be

> > a

> > > form in the 12th house. This is where everykind of form ends.

This is

> > where

> > > the body or bodies end. This is the state of the body at death.

> >

> > Let me respectfully remind you that this whole discussion is

about forms. I

> > will write a little later on why different forms are even needed.

> >

> > > Have I not given such a clear and lucid explanation about the

meaning of

> > > 12th house and vishnu as 'sarva-vyapakesa'. Then tell me from

the physical

> > > universe viewpoint.

> > > Is vishnu there in the flower? The answer is yes

> > > Is Vishnu there in the tree? The answer is yes

> >

> > That's all fine. But a devotee of Kaali like Ramakrishna will

eventually

> > reach the stage where he sees Kaali in flowers, trees etc (just

as you may

> > aspire to see Vishnu in everything). A great devotee of Shiva will

> > eventually see Shiva in everything.

> >

> > It is possible to devote to several deities and eventually start

seeing the

> > deity in everything that exists.

> >

> > Even as you exclaim "again form!", you ARE getting lost in forms

and

> > thinking that only Vishnu's form has the characteristic you

explained above.

> >

> > In order to explain this more clearly, let me go back to the

analogy I gave

> > earlier. This fantastic analogy is from my spiritual guru.

> >

> > -------------- Quote Begin --------------

> > Imagine God to be a bright star in the sky. When you see from a

distance,

> > star seems tiny and you conclude that there is only one God. If

you start

> > moving towards God, you realize as you get closer that the star

is in

> > reality a huge diamond with 330 million faces. Each face is

several miles

> > long and wide and has various attributes (gunas). One face may be

red and

> > hot and another may be blue and cold etc. So, as you get closer

to the

> > diamond, you have to pick one face to get close to.

> >

> > Now, when you get too close to a face, the whole world will seem

to have the

> > attributes of that face. For example, if you get too close to a

face that is

> > cold and blue, then the whole world will feel cold and blue to

you. In other

> > words, the God you are getting close to is the Supreme god of the

world and

> > fills the entire world as you experience it.

> >

> > This is the ultimate goal in sadhana for one adhering to Dwaita

siddhanta

> > (duality). For them, getting close to ishta devata and securing a

place near

> > the feet is the highest goal.

> >

> > For some, there is a next stage: As you get closer and closer to

the face

> > you picked, you finally merge with it! This is the ultimate goal

in sadhana

> > for one adhering to Visishtaadwaita.

> >

> > To Advaitis, this communion with a Saguna ("with attributes")

form of God is

> > not the final goal. The final goal is to break through the face

and jump

> > into the inside of the diamond. As you break through the face of

the diamond

> > into which you merge and jump into the interior of the diamond,

you no

> > longer perceive the faces of the diamond or the world outside.

There are no

> > longer any objects or attributes. The experiencer, experienced and

> > experience all merge into one.

> > -------------- Quote End --------------

> >

> > Read the above analogy carefully. Imagine Vishnu, Shiva etc to be

faces of

> > the diamond in the above analogy. If you get too close to Vishnu,

you will

> > indeed see Vishnu in everything and you 'realize' that Vishnu is

the supreme

> > god of this universe and fills everything that exists. You see

Vishnu in

> > even Shiva. Similarly, if you get too close to Shiva, you will

indeed see

> > Shiva in everything and you 'realize' that Shiva is the supreme

god of this

> > universe and fills everything that exists. You see Shiva in even

Vishnu.

> >

> > It is as simple as that.

> >

> > But then, one may ask what is the importance of picking ishta

devata based

> > on chart. If it is possible to see Vishnu in Shiva or Shiva in

Vishnu, what

> > is the big deal in choosing a deity? Why can't one pray to a

random deity?

> >

> > The answer is that the stage of perceiving the ishta devata in

all gods and

> > everything that exists has not been reached by most people. Our

ishta devata

> > prescriptions are for people who are yet to reach that stage. In

terms of my

> > analogy, the journey to different faces of the diamond takes

different times

> > based on where you stand right now. If you pick a face that is

closest to

> > you based on where you are, you reach the diamond faster. For

example, if

> > you choose a face on the other side, it will take considerably

longer to

> > reach it. On the contrary, if you select a face that is closest

to you, you

> > reach it faster.

> >

> > Similarly, if you choose a form (face of the diamond of divinity)

that is

> > closest to you based on where you stand in karmic evolution (i.e.

based on

> > all previous karmas and samskaras), you reach god faster. Once

you reach the

> > chosen face and get too close to it, you will see that deity in

the entire

> > universe. Someone with different samskaras may choose a different

deity and

> > reach a different face and that person will see that deity in the

entire

> > universe. There is no contradiction here!

> >

> > Thus, while trying to surrender to a random deity may eventually

work,

> > surrendering to some specific deities may work faster based on

your previous

> > karmas. That is what astrologers should try to figure out.

Instead of

> > setting one on a different course, if we help one continue the

course one

> > was on already (from various lives), we would have done a good

thing!

> >

> > Thus, my humble appeal is this: Let us not restrict to one deity

(e.g.

> > Vishnu) based on OUR OWN samskaras. Let us recommend all deities

based on

> > the native's inclination, samskaras and karmas.

> >

> > I hope my view on prescribing only Vishnu's avataras as ishta

devatas is

> > better understood after this detailed mail!

> >

> > * * *

> > <snip>

> >

> > May the light of Brahman shine within,

> > Narasimha

> > -------------------------------

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > -------------------------------

>

>

>