if Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Vishnu

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Your trying to establish Gaudiya, as a seperate Sampradaya.

 

 

http://www.purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture19980604.shtml

I will highlight the parts which maybe of interest to you, you will notice that everything is according to evidence. (from Scriptures): And different Sampradaya's also accept this (NOT Just Gaudiya):

 

 

purebhakti.com/lectures/lecture19980604.shtml

 

Disappearance Day of Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana

Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana

Los Angeles, California: June 4, 1998

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

[This year the disappearance day of Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana is in June 6th in America. The transcription below is being published for the first time today.]

 

Today is the disappearance day of Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana - one of the most elevated acaryas in our disciplic succession. Today is also the birthday of Srimati Gangamata Gosvamini, and it is also the very day that the Ganges River came to this world. Three holy days are here. In India, in all our Mathas (temples), there will be a very big festival of harikatha for these prominent leaders in devotion to Sri Krsna.

 

Baladeva Vidyabhusana was born in Orissa, near Puri, in a place called Chilka Lake. He was very brilliant, and in his boyhood he learned all vyakarana (Sanskrit grammar) as well as the Vedas, Upanisads and all other scriptures. He wanted especially to read and study Vedanta. He read Sri Sankaracarya's explanation of Vedanta, but he was not satisfied and wanted to study more. Therefore, he went to South India, to a place called Udupi, where he studied all the commentaries on Vedanta, like the Sri-bhasya of Sri Ramanuja, the Parijata-Saurabha-bhasya of Sri Nimbaditya, more of the Sariraka-bhasya of Sri Sankaracarya, the Sarvajna-Sukti-bhasya of Sri Visnusvami, the Brhad-bhasya and Anubhasya of Sri Madhvacarya, and the Bhaskara-bhasya of Sri Bhaskara Acarya. He became very learned, and after that he returned to his homeland with a desire to conquer the entire world - to free it of misunderstandings in philosophical tattva.

 

He went to Jagannatha Puri, and he thought, "Previously, Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya and many others like him have been here, so there must be so many learned persons in their line. I will conquer and defeat them." At that time there was a Gaudiya-Vaisnava present, named Radha-Damodara Prabhu, who was in the line of, and just after, Syamananda Prabhu, Rasikananda Prabhu, and Nayananda Prabhu. Radha-Damodara Prabhu was a very good scholar. He was very learned, but he kept all his knowledge hidden. He was a very simple person, always chanting and remembering in the line of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Srila Rupa Gosvami. One day Baladeva Vidyabhusana came to defeat him, but when he heard all his siddhanta (conclusive truths) he thought, "I am very insignificant and I do not know anything in front of him. I am like a baby, a small baby." He at once surrendered to the lotus feet of Radha-Damodara and took initiation from him.

 

After that he went to Vrndavana and took shelter of his siksa-guru, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, and he totally surrendered to him. There he read all of Srila Jiva Gosvami's Six Sandarbhas: Tattva-sandarbha, Paramatma-sandharbha, Bhagavat-sandarbha, Krsna-sandarbha, Bhakti-sandarbha, and Prtti-sandarbha.

 

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura had taken ksetra-sannyasa. Ksetra-sannyasa means that one lives either in Vraja-dhama, Navadvipa-dhama or Jagannatha Puri-dhama and takes a vow: "I will not leave this place." Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura had taken ksetra-sannyasa in Vrndavana-dhama. He had decided, "I will never go out of Vrndavana." Gradually, he reached the old age of one-hundred years, and at that time there was some quarrel:

 

Some of the members of the Ramanuja Sampradaya, which propounds vaidhi-bhakti and varnasrama dharma, challenged, "How is it that Srimati Radhika, although not married to Krsna, always sits with Krsna? It is illegal." That was the first question. Second: "There is no mention of the name Radhika in Srimad-Bhagavatam or in any other sastra." And third: "The Gaudiya Vaisnavas are not in any Vaisnava sampradaya. There are only four sampradayas: Sri-Laksmi-sampradaya, Brahma-sampradaya, Rudra-sampradaya and Sanaka-sampradaya. In Kali-yuga there are four prominent acaryas: Ramanuja in the Sri-sampradaya, Madhvacarya in the Brahma-sampradaya, Visnusvami in the Rudra-sampradaya and Nimbaditya in the Sanaka-sampradaya. From where did these Gaudiya Vaisnavas recently come? We don't accept them. They have no commentary on Vedanta-sutra, so we cannot accept that they know siddhanta. We cannot accept their philosophical conclusions."

 

The King of Jaipura requested Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura to come, but he denied their request. He ordered his disciple Baladeva Vidyabhusana Prabhu to go in his stead. Baladeva Vidyabhusana Prabhu went there, together with another prominent disciple of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, and defeated all. He quoted many Puranas, Vedas, Upanisads and the Srimad-Bhagavatam, proving that Srimati Radhika and Lord Sri Krsna are always together. Radhika is Krsna's potency or power - They cannot be separated.

 

Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana quoted a story from Srila Jayadeva Gosvami's Gita-govinda that showed how Radhika was married to Krsna. He also quoted the history from Srimad Bhagavatam wherein Lord Brahma stole all the cowherd boys and calves, and Krsna Himself became exact duplicates of all the boys. According to the Bhagavatam, that year Gargacarya announced that all the cowherd men should give in their daughters in marriage, because it was a very auspicious year. In that year, therefore, all the daughters were married to all the sons of the cowherd men. Actually, though, because the young cowherd boys were Krsna Himself, all the girls were married to Krsna.

 

Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana Prabhu presented some verses from Srimad-Bhagavatam:

 

anayaradhito nunam

bhagavan harir isvarah

yan no vihaya govindah

prito yam anayad rahah

 

["Certainly this particular gopi has perfectly worshiped the all-powerful Personality of Godhead, Govinda, since He was so pleased with Her that He abandoned the rest of us and brought Her to a secluded place." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.30.28)]

 

There are so many verses substantiating the truth of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna. Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana Prabhu quoted them all, and he proved that Radhika is Sri Krsna's own power - for Them there is no need to marry. The followers of the Ramanuja-sampradaya accepted these arguments. They were bound to accept; they were defeated.

 

The opposing party then said, "You have no bona fide Vaisnava sampradaya." Baladeva Vidyabhusana then proved the Gaudiya Vaisnavas are in the line of Sri Madhvacarya. Sri Laksmipati Tirtha, who gave diksa to Sri Nityananda Prabhu, was a disciple of Sri Madhvacarya. Sri Madhavendra Puripada, the grand spiritual master of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, was also a disciple of this Laksmipati Tirtha.

 

The followers of the Ramanuja sampradaya challenged, "Laksmipati Tirtha was 'Tirtha' and Madhavendra Puri was 'Puri.' How did this difference come?

 

Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana clearly explained that one cannot decide a person's disciplic succession on the basis of sannyasa. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was initiated by Sri Isvari Puripada at Gaya, and in Vaisnava siddhanta He followed Isvara Puripada. He did not follow Kesava Bharati, who gave Him sannyasa. The Guru is he who initiates by mantra - harinama and diksa-mantra. Sri Isvara Puripada gave Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu the gopal-mantra, and Mahaprabhu followed Vaisnava religion according to the mood of Isvara Puripada, in the line of Madhavendra Puripada.

 

In the same way, although Srila Madhavendra Puri received sannyasa from someone else, he was initiated into the gopal-mantra by Sri Laksmipati Tirtha. There was a householder devotee at that time, who took sannyasa from someone in the Sankara-sampradaya, just as Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did. Like Mahaprabhu, he was Vaisnava, not a mayavadi. That Vaisnava was named Visnu Puri, and he had been initiated in the Madhva-sampradaya. Madhavendra Puri took sannyasa from that Puri - from Visnu Puri. In this way, Gaudiya Vaisnavas are part of the Madhva-sampradaya.

 

Nowadays, there is a similar friction in Vrndavana and Navadvipa. One party is saying, "We, Gaudiya Vaisnavas, are not under any Vaisnava sampradaya. We are fully independent. Why should Caitanya Mahaprabhu take shelter of any other sampradaya? He is Krsna Himself."

 

This argument is not correct. Sri Krsna accepted Sandipani Muni and Lord Ramacandra accepted Vasistha as their Gurus. The duty of a sampradaya-guru is not the job of Lord Krsna. Sampradayas are established by His powers and associates. Laksmi, Brahma, Visnusvami and Nimbaditya all are His associates. If Krsna were the head of the sampradaya, it would be called Krsna-sampradaya or Narayana-sampradaya - not Brahma-sampradaya. The names of all the sampradayas refer to the names of devotees: Sri-sampradaya, Brahma-sampradaya, Ramanuja-sampradaya and Madhva-sampradaya.

 

Nowadays, that party says that Gaudiya Vaisnavas are a separate and fully independent sampradaya. But Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Jiva Gosvami, and before that Srila Gopala-bhatta Gosvami and Sri Kavi-karnapura, have accepted the Madhva-sampradaya. So we must also accept the Madhva-sampradaya, as Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana has written in his books.

 

That party says that Baladeva Vidyabhusana went to Udupi, the place of Madhvacarya, and that he accepted the Madhva-sampradaya. They say his initiation was in the Madhva-sampradaya. They say that he later came in the association of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, but he never accepted Gaudiya Vaisnavism, and that is why he said that Gaudiya Vaisnavas are in the Madhva line.

 

This idea is totally wrong. If Baladeva Vidyabhusana was not in our Gaudiya Vaisnava line, how could he have explained all the sandarbhas of Srila Jiva Gosvami? He accepted Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as non-different from Sri Krsna. All his books are in our line - in the line of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. He also explained Srila Rupa Gosvami's Laghu-bhagavatamrta, as well all the books of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura and the other books of Srila Rupa Gosvami. He was a Rupanuga Vaisnava.

 

If Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana had not been present at that time, our Gaudiya Vaisnava identity would have disappeared from this world. He established all the principles and philosophy established by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He is a true Gaudiya Vaisnava.

 

For about one hundred years, Smartas have been raising this question, but Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddanta Sarasvati Thakura and all other great acaryas have defeated all their arguments. Our Guru Maharaja has very boldly written a book about this. I want to publish it, with so many notes and explanations. Very soon I will publish it. [This book was later published under the name Prabandha-Panchakam.

 

So Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana prabhu is a very prominent person in our line. There are so many more things to tell; but time is going to be over, so I'm ending here.

 

Editorial Advisors: Sripad Madhava Maharaja and Sripad Brajanath dasa

Editor: Syamarani dasi

Transcriber: Janaki dasi

Typist: Anita dasi

Proofreader: Krsna Kamini dasi

[Guest guest]

do Gaudiyas pray to Radha as their Heavenly Mother?

[Bhava dasa]

 

 

anayaradhito nunam

bhagavan harir isvarah

yan no vihaya govindah

prito yam anayad rahah

 

["Certainly this particular gopi has perfectly worshiped the all-powerful Personality of Godhead, Govinda, since He was so pleased with Her that He abandoned the rest of us and brought Her to a secluded place." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.30.28)]

 

 

This is from Sri Caitanya Caritamrita:

 

 

 

krsna-vancha-purti-rupa kare aradhane

ataeva ‘radhika' nama purane vakhane

 

 

krsna-vancha -- of the desire of Lord Krsna; purti-rupa -- of the nature of fulfillment; kare -- does; aradhane -- worship; ataeva -- therefore; radhika -- Srimati Radhika; nama -- named; purane -- in the Puranas; vakhane -- in the description.

 

"Her worship [aradhana] consists of fulfilling the desires of Lord Krsna. Therefore the Puranas call Her Radhika."

 

"The name "Radha" is derived from the root word aradhana, which means 'worship.' The personality who excels all in worshiping Krsna may therefore be called Radhika, the greatest servitor." (Adi 4.87)

[Bhava dasa]

 

do Gaudiyas pray to Radha as their Heavenly Mother?

Yes:

 

 

ataeva sarva-pujya, parama-devata

sarva-palika, sarva jagatera mata

 

 

ataeva -- therefore; sarva-pujya -- worshipable by all; parama -- supreme; devata -- goddess; sarva-palika -- the protectress of all; sarva jagatera -- of all the universes; mata -- the mother.

 

"Therefore Radha is parama-devata, the supreme goddess, and She is worshipable for everyone. She is the protectress of all, and She is the mother of the entire universe." (Adi 4.89)

 

Hare Krsna

[Pankaja_Dasa]

It seems Yogakria wants MORE proof that Radha name is mentioned in the Srimad Bhagavatam, it seems he knows better then millions of Vaishnava's (past and present). It seems he knows the 'actual' meaning or is looking for another meaning. Ramanuja Sampradaya accepts this verse, all Vrajavasis accept this verse, every bona-fide Vaishnava Sampradaya (WHO READ BHAGAVATAM), accept this verse. Mmm I am starting to wonder what Yogakriya motive is, is he really inquiring?

 

Does he even read Bhagavatam or believe it to be bona-fide scripture? (is he a Shavite(?) or a Yogi? A Mayavadi!? And Impersonalist? What exactly is his motivation? Bhava p said it right, this is a hare krishna forum (this section is anyway). So if you don't like what you hear that's okay. But you are looking like a total fool. When presented with so much evidence, you still refuce to believe it. Read this again:

 

anayaradhito nunam

bhagavan harir isvarah

yan no vihaya govindah

prito yam anayad rahah

 

["Certainly this particular gopi has perfectly worshiped the all-powerful Personality of Godhead, Govinda, since He was so pleased with Her that He abandoned the rest of us and brought Her to a secluded place." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.30.28)]

==

 

Which Gopi is this reffering to, do you know. Or is it a mistranslation in Your eyes? You keep saying Gaudiya are mistranslating everything, it says here clearly. (by the way it's Sanskrit). You probably know Sanskrit right? Did you know that Bhagavatam is understood by devotees ONLY? Not by fools?! Or Raskals (such as myself). How do we learn Bhagavatam? By going to a Bona-fide Sandhu (Vaishnava) Why? Do we do this you ask? Because we are fools and raskals. Do you 'get it'? Or did I mistranslate something. Private Pm me if you like.

[madhavachari]

 

then let me ask you, if I can't pray to Radha as my Heavenly Mother, can I pray to Lakshmi as my Heavenly Mother? or will I need to convert to Shaktism to connect with the Divine Mother. :(

 

YES

 

Sri Sampradaya means devotee and servant of Lakshmi and Narayana.

[madhavachari]

 

Ramanuja Sampradaya accepts this verse

 

But only Gaudiyas accept their own interpretation.

[madhavachari]

Someone questioned why people who are not Gaudiyas, such as Yogakriya (Shaiva I guess) and myself (Srivaishnava), are here on the Hare Krishna forum.

 

I don´t want to cause any disturbance and the purpose is not to prove that "we are right".

 

But there are issues in the Gaudiya line that need to be addressed and which are very unclear. So far nobody has been able to clarify. So, if I (and all other traditional vaishnavas in India and the world) see all these problems in your sampradaya, perhaps you should listen to your big brothers and be humble enough to reconsider your position.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

The followers of the Ramanuja-sampradaya accepted these arguments. They were bound to accept; they were defeated.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Someone questioned why people who are not Gaudiyas, such as Yogakriya (Shaiva I guess) and myself (Srivaishnava), are here on the Hare Krishna forum.

 

I don´t want to cause any disturbance and the purpose is not to prove that "we are right".

 

But there are issues in the Gaudiya line that need to be addressed and which are very unclear. So far nobody has been able to clarify. So, if I (and all other traditional vaishnavas in India and the world) see all these problems in your sampradaya, perhaps you should listen to your big brothers and be humble enough to reconsider your position.

 

Are you are person who gave me an impersonlistic intrepretation of a verse before on another thread? This thread

 

From the Kalisantaranopanisad:

 

"These (sixteen names) destroy the Avarana (or the centripetal force which produces the sense of individuality) of Jiva surrounded by the sixteen Kalas (rays). Then like the sphere of the sun which shines fully after the clouds (screening it) disperse, Parabrahman (alone) shines."

==

 

If you can't see this is an impersonal translation, then Oh man.

[madhavachari]

"Impersonalistic"? What is that?

If you are thinking that Brahman is impersonal, you are wrong.

 

And God´s light (brahmajyoti) is another of his qualities and as you might know, He is inseparable from His qualities.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

"Impersonalistic"? What is that?

If you are thinking that Brahman is impersonal, you are wrong. God´s light is another of his qualities and as you might know, He is inseparable from His qualities.

 

 

Oh so it's okay to quote or give an impersonal translation, but Oh Gaudiya (who don't have a tinge of Mayavada or Impersonal) give thier OWN intrepretations. Oh yes.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

But only Gaudiyas accept their own interpretation.

 

 

We believe pray to Radha-Krishna, you pray to Lakmi-Narayana, what exactly is your problem? Your A Sri Vaishnava, what are you coming here to argue about? Are you trying to convert us? Man what is the world coming to.

 

I don't think you actually are a Sri Vaishnava, because a Sri Vaishnava would never post a quote by an Impersonalist, and then wonder what they posted. Well.. (maybe you have motivation for coming here!!).

[madhavachari]

 

The followers of the Ramanuja-sampradaya accepted these arguments. They were bound to accept; they were defeated.

 

They were not even members of the Sri sampradaya proper, and they were certainly not scholars, which is evident from their answers. They were Ramanandis, whom are a splinter group - their acharya claims he received initiation in a dream, like Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati.

[madhavachari]

 

Oh so it's okay to quote or give an impersonal translation, but Oh Gaudiya (who don't have a tinge of Mayavada or Impersonal) give thier OWN intrepretations. Oh yes.

 

In fact, you are the one who talks about "impersonal God". But God is not impersonal or devoid of attributes - ever.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

They were not even members of the Sri sampradaya proper, and they were certainly not scholars, which is evident from their answers. They were Ramanandis, whom are a splinter group - their acharya claims he received initiation in a dream, like Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati.

 

Where did you hear Bhaktisiddhanata Saraswati recieved initiation in a dream? He recieved initation (not in a dream). Where did you get this from?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

In fact, you are the one who talks about "impersonal God". But God is not impersonal or devoid of attributes - ever.

 

So why did you use an impersonal translation?

[madhavachari]

 

So why did you use an impersonal translation?

I guess you are used to translations that interpret the words instead of translating them. As I said, there is nothing impersonal about Brahman. Nor is brahmajyoti impersonal. Because the Lord is not different from His attributes, such as the transcendental light. What you are doing is to interpret Brahman as "impersonal Brahman devoid of qualities" in the style of Brahma-samhita and Gaudiyas in general. But that is not what it means.

 

Another point. See that the names Hari, Krishna and Rama, which are in the Vishnu sahasranaman, are names of NARAYANA. It doesn´t say names of KRISHNA.

 

Here is another translation of this Upanishad. Which by the way is a rather recent upanishad, but accepted because it is in harmony with the Vedas.

 

The Kalisantarana Upanishad

---------------------------

 

AUM saha nAvavatu | saha nau bhunaktu | saha vIryam karavAvahai |

tejasvi nAvadhitamastu mA vidviShAvahai | AUM Santih Santih Santih |

 

Tr: May God protect us (the Guru and the disciple). May we both

enjoy the results (of this Upanishad). May we attain strength

together. Let the study of this (Upanishad) be illuminating to

both of us. Let us not show contempt for each other.

Peace. Peace. Peace.

 

harih AUM | dvAparAnte nArado brahmANam jagAma katham bhagavan gAm

paryaTan kalim santareyam iti |

 

Tr: At the end of Dvapara Yuga, Narada, after traveling the world,

approached Lord Brahma and asked him:

"How may I overcome the (evil effects of) the Kali Yuga?"

 

sa hovaca brahmA sAdhu pRShTo asmi

sarvaSrutirahasyam gopyam tacchRuNu yena kalisamsAram tariShyasi |

 

Tr: Brahma said: "You have asked me an excellent question. I shall

reveal to you the secret of all Vedas, by which you will cross

over the (ocean of) samsara filled with the bad effects of the

Kali Yuga. This secret must be preserved and protected."

 

bhagavata AdipuruShasya nArAyaNasya nAmoccAraNamAtreNa nirdhRtakalir

bhavati| nAradah punah papraccha tannAma kimiti |

 

Tr: "By merely uttering the names of the Primeval Purusha, who is

Bhagavan Narayana, one is freed from the clutches of Kali."

Narada asked again: "What are those names of Narayana?"

 

sa hovaca hiraNyagarbhah |

 

Tr: Lord Brahma said:

 

hare rAma hare rAma rAma rAma hare hare |

 

Tr: O Hari, O Rama, O Hari, O Rama , O Rama O Rama, O Hari, O Hari!

 

hare kRShNa hare kRShNa kRShNa kRShNa hare hare |

 

Tr: O Hari, O Krishna, O Hari, O Krishna , O Krishna O Krishna,

O Hari, O Hari!

 

iti ShoDaSakam nAmnAm kalikalmaShanASanam |

nAtah parataropAyah sarvavedeShu dRSyate |

 

Tr: This collection of sixteen names (of Narayana) destroys the

evils of the Kali Yuga.

I don't see any other effective means (of liberation) in the Vedas.

 

iti ShoDaSakalAvRtasya jIvasyAvaraNavinASanam |

tatah prakASate param brahma meghApAye raviraSmimanDalIveti |

 

Tr: (This mantra) destroys the sixteen kalas of the jiva, beginning

with the prana, which constitute the veil of ignorance. Then the

Supreme Brahman shines forth, just as the solar disc shines forth

brilliantly when the clouds vanish.

 

punarnAradah papraccha bhagavan ko asya vidhiriti |

tam hovaca nAsya vidhiriti |

 

Tr: Narada asked: " O Bhagavan, what are the regulations

or injunctions to be followed in chanting these names?"

Brahma said: "There are no regulations to be followed."

 

sarvadA SuciraSucirvA pathan brAhmaNah salokatAm samIpatAm

sarUpatAm sAyujyatAmeti |

 

Tr: "By chanting these names always, whether in a clean or

unclean state, a brahmana obtains the

four kinds of liberation, sAlokya, sAmIpya, sArUpya and

sAyujya."

 

Notes: 1) sAlokya -- living in the abode of God

2) sAmIpya -- living in the proximity of God

3) sArupya -- living with a form identical with God

4) sAyujya -- merging with the body of God

 

yadAsya ShoDaSikasya sArdhatrikoTIrjapati tadA brahmahatyAm

tarati| tarati vIrahatyAm |

 

Tr: When a brahmana chants this mantra of sixteen names, for a

total of one and one half crore times, he becomes free from

the sin of killing a brahmaNa. He overcomes the sin of

neglecting his domestic fire.

 

svarNasteyAt pUto bhavati |

pitRdevamanuShyANAmapakArAt pUto bhavati |

 

Tr: He becomes free from the sin of stealing gold.

He becomes free from the offences committed against

forefathers, Gods and human beings.

 

sarvadharmaparityAgapApAt sadyah SucitAmApnuyAt |

sadyo mucyate sadyo mucyate ityupaniShat |

 

Tr: He quickly becomes free from the sin of giving up all religious

duties. He becomes liberated immediately; he becomes liberated

immediately. Thus the Upanishad.

 

AUM saha nAvavatu | saha nau bhunaktu | saha vIryam karavAvahai |

tejasvi nAvadhitamastu mA vidviShAvahai | AUM Santih Santih Santih |

 

Tr: May God protect us (the Guru and the disciple). May we both

enjoy the results (of this Upanishad). May we attain strength

together. Let the study of this (Upanishad) be illuminating to

both of us. Let us not show contempt for each other.

Peace. Peace. Peace.

[madhavachari]

 

Where did you hear Bhaktisiddhanata Saraswati recieved initiation in a dream? He recieved initation (not in a dream). Where did you get this from?

There are witnesses who heard the conversation between Saraswati Thakur and a babaji in Vrindavan. And Saraswati T allegedly said that he had received initiation in a dream. I don´t know if he referred to Sannyasa or Diksha though.

[madhavachari]

 

 

"These (sixteen names) destroy the Avarana (or the centripetal force which produces the sense of individuality) of Jiva surrounded by the sixteen Kalas (rays). Then like the sphere of the sun which shines fully after the clouds (screening it) disperse, Parabrahman (alone) shines."

==

 

If you can't see this is an impersonal translation, then Oh man.

 

What is the smashing about? How old are you?

 

Anyway, here is a hopefully clearer translation:

 

iti ShoDaSakalAvRtasya jIvasyAvaraNavinASanam |

tatah prakASate param brahma meghApAye raviraSmimanDalIveti |

 

Tr: "(This mantra) destroys the sixteen kalas of the jiva, beginning

with the prana, which constitute the veil of ignorance. Then the

Supreme Brahman shines forth, just as the solar disc shines forth

brilliantly when the clouds vanish."

 

Ok, I didn´t read it the way you did though. Sense of individuality in the other translation I read as false ego. Which is quite different!

 

However, merging with God is also a possibility as per the Vedas. So don´t criticize it.

[Bhava dasa]

 

YES

 

Sri Sampradaya means devotee and servant of Lakshmi and Narayana.

Then accept this statement as referring to Sri Lakshmi Devi. That's alright, we accept that as well.

 

Hare Krsna.