Without our books, our preaching will have no effect.

[Nrsinghadev]

 

No doubt. But don't pretend to yourself just because you guru is here in vapuh form that you cannot fall victim to the same prentious self delusions.

Hare Krishna,

 

the way I see it, Prabhupada initiated according to time and circumstance. He initiated thousands of devotees and as we can read here in the end he even initiated while not present there himself due to pastimes of bad health.

 

His mission was to firmly establish this mission of Krishna consciousness around the world by almost any means necessary, following the instructions of his spiritual master Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada. He first had to establish a really firm foundation on which to build on, that was his first and foremost business.

So to do this, some principles may have been temporarily thrown overboard. What I've read from spiritual masters and related literature so far, is that normal procedure is that the guru observes the potential disciple for a long period of time and then upon satisfaction grants him diksha, and that also the guru should not take many disciples.

But, with the goal to spread Lord Chaitanya's mission in mind ,this would become a tedious and even impossible mission. So this temporary system of "mass" initiation was applied and this system is, for the same purpose and albeit on a somewhat smaller scale, nowadays also being applied by most acharya's from Gaudiya maths other than ISKCON, with the exception that they do have the successor acharya principle still intact. The way I see it is that they are doing this simply as an extremely merciful act to help spread Krishna consciousness around the world and to encourage the devotees, but it is not the nitya, or eternal way. This method is also temporary.

 

Anyway, this may be why he stressed that everything is in his books, because nowhere in his body of work do we find him saying that it is not necessary to have a physically present spiritual master. Rather in his books we find the original way of guru/disciple relationship. I'm talking books here, not personal letters that are taken out of context. His books were meant as help and teach all, his letters were meant to help or instruct those specific people on a personal level, and according to time and circumstance. Also his spiritual master emphasized the need for book-publishing to him, and he gloriously and succesfully fulfilled this instruction, so this may be another reason why Prabhupada stressed his books so vehemently.

This morning I was listening to a lecture of Prabhupada on the Nectar of Devotion, where he said: "By the mercy of Sri Krishna one obtains a guru, and by the mercy of Sri guru one obtains Krishna." Simply by hearing lectures, watching videos and reading his books and purports on this subject matter one cannot but conclude that by this he means a physically present guru, as numerous times in his books and purports he stresses the importance of surrendering to a bonafide spiritual master and speaks of the relation between disciple and guru in a way that can only apply to a physically present guru. So in my view when he says that his books are most important it is because they contain all the aspects of Gaudiya Vaisnavism in their original state, how it should be. In my opinion, he did not mean that these temporary arrangements should become perpetual.

It is a fact that his ultimate aim was to produce many many bonafide spiritual masters who would continue where he left off. By not appointing a single successor acharya he also deviated from the tradition of parampara as a sacrifice to reach the goal of Chaitanya's mission, but this has unfortunately brought alot of confusion and quarrel in and outside his math, which can never be what he hoped for would happen. So this move to me is just another example of a temporary method that was brought about for the sole reasons of spreading Lord Chaitanya's mission and executing his spiritual masters orders.

 

So in my opinion one should always look at Sri guru's instructions from the view of true Vaisnava Dharma, as re-established by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and his followers, and from the point of view of this nitya dharma, Sri guru would observe and guide his disciple for a long period of time in person, before deciding whether to grant initiation or not. So from that point of view, there can be no question of there being any validity in the above quoted statement, because in that case Sri guru would simply reject such a person's application for initiation. In that case, one may have fooled himself into thinking he has surrendered, but he cannot fool the bonafide spiritual master.

 

But of course, these are just the rantings of a lowborn fool, so feel free to disregard and please forgive me for any errors on my behalf.

 

Haribol!

 

Signed,

 

Go Dasa.

[Kripamoya]

the problem with all this talk about traditional parampara for iskCON is that the Gaudiya TRADITION is that all of the genuine Gaudiya gurus in the parampara that Srila Prabhupada gave us were siddha-bhaktas.

 

The "tradition" is a tradition of siddha gurus.

 

The ISKCON GBC system of dozens and dozens of sadhaka gurus has nothing to do with the parampara that Srila Prabhupada represented.

 

To call this system of sadhaka gurus as "traditional" is for the most part a deception.

 

A genuine guru comes from the section of the infallible siddha-bhakta parampara.

 

Techinically, sadhakas are actually bhakta-praya or candidates for becoming a bhakta.

 

A genuine BHAKTA is a siddha-bhakta.

 

Aspiring bhaktas are not really of the guru-tattva group.

 

Guru-tattva, the self-realized acharyas, might be able to use sadhakas for their missions, but sadhakas are not guru-tattva.

[renuka]

 

When Srila Prabhupada said "our preaching will have no effect", that overtly includes even HIMSELF!

 

Srila Prabhupada said that without his books OUR (his) preaching will have NO EFFECT!

 

Without the books, even Srila Prabhupada's preaching would have had NO EFFECT!

 

That is what he said in that statement as he said "OUR preaching will have no effect".

 

So, Srila Prabhupada seemed to be saying time and time again that the BOOKS are the real basis of the movement, even more important than the living guru concept.

 

Without the books, a living guru "WILL HAVE NO EFFECT".

 

That is the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

 

This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. THis is nothing better than an impersonalilst who interprets 'I' in Bhagavad Gita refering not to Krishna but to the impersonal Brahman.

 

This kind of understanding comes from misinterpreting Srila Prabhupada as a conditioned soul. You are not able to recognise Srila Prabhupada as a liberated soul. This lack of complete faith in Srila Prabhupada is the main reason for today's GBC guru system. When you think Srila Prabhupada is just one among 100, this kind of interpretation would arise. Ask a Sri Vaishnavite about the position of Sripada Ramanuja Acarya, or ask a Madava about the position of Sri Madhvacharya. Do they say, '

Without the books, even Srila Ramanuja's preaching would have had NO EFFECT!'. How funny! this show there is no basic faith on the Srila Prabhupada.

 

This kind of people will go behind some bogus guru and will result in his fall and they keep trotting from one guru to another. You get what you deserve. Kindly refrain from such offensive posts. Save yourself by sweet surrender to Srila Prabhupada.