Initiation Made Easy - By Bhaktivinoda Thakur

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada explains who is to be known as the initiator guru.

 

 

Adi 1 –34 purport

Although others give help in showing the way to beginners, the guru who first initiates one with the maha-mantra is to be known as the initiator, and the saints who give instructions for progressive advancement in Krsna consciousness are called instructing spiritual masters.

 

Therefore in classic Gaudiya Vaishnavism, the guru who initiates one into the Maha-mantra is to be considered the diksha guru.

 

Srila Prabhupada explains in the Caitanya Caritamrita the process by which Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur recommends that one should take initiation into the Maha-mantra.

 

 

.

enechi ausadhi maya nasibara lagi'

hari-nama-maha-mantra lao tumi magi'

bhakativinoda prabhu-carane padiya

sei hari-nama-mantra laila magiya

A person who is actually a follower of Sri Bhaktivinoda Thakura must immediately accept the request of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu by offering respectful obeisances unto His lotus feet and thus beg from Him the Hare Krsna maha-mantra. If one is fortunate enough to beg from the Lord this Hare Krsna maha-mantra, his life is successful.

Adi 9 36 purport

 

Therefore, ultimately, the guru must teach his disciple to fall down before Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and beg for the Maha-mantra from Lord.

 

Unless and until one begs this Maha-mantra from the Lord, then his initiation is not complete.

 

Only very fortunate souls fall down before the deity of Lord Caitanya and beg for the maha-mantra.

 

At least, this seems to be the view and the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur.

 

Getting initiation into the Maha-mantra is available to all who will bow down before Lord Caitanya and beg for this Maha-mantra.

[raga]

Could you please define "classic Gaudiya Vaishnavism"?

[Guest guest]

 

Could you please define "classic Gaudiya Vaishnavism"?

 

Classic Gaudiya Vaishnavism actually precedes Rupanugaism.

 

Classic Gaudiya Vaishnavism is the Vaishnavism that Sri Chaitanaya Mahaprabhu prabhu himself promulgated during the peak of his Sankirtan movement.

 

 

TEXT 109

 

 

 

TEXT

 

 

 

navadvipe yei sakti na kaila prakase

 

se sakti prakasi' nistarila daksina-dese

 

 

 

SYNONYMS

 

 

 

navadvipe--at Navadvipa; yei--that which; sakti--the potency; na--not; kaila--did; prakase--manifestation; se--that; sakti--potency; prakasi'--manifesting; nistarila--delivered; daksina-dese--South India.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

 

Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not manifest His spiritual potencies at Navadvipa, but He did manifest them in South India and liberated all the people there.

 

Mahaprabhu manifested a potency in South India that he did not manifest elsewhere.

 

 

TEXT 116

 

 

 

TEXT

 

 

 

darsane 'vaisnava' haila, bale 'krsna' 'hari'

 

premavese nace loka urdhva bahu kari'

 

 

 

SYNONYMS

 

 

 

darsane--in seeing; vaisnava haila--they became devotees; bale--started to say; krsna--Lord Krsna; hari--Lord Hari; prema-avese--in the great ecstasy of love of Godhead; nace--dance; loka--all the people; urdhva bahu kari'--raising the arms.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

 

Just by seeing Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, everyone became a devotee. They began to chant "Krsna" and "Hari" and all the holy names. They all were merged in a great ecstasy of love, and they began to dance, raising their arms.

 

Just by seeing Mahaprabhu, everyone became a devotee.

 

 

 

TEXT

 

 

 

krsna-nama loka-mukhe suni' avirama

 

sei loka 'vaisnava' kaila anya saba grama

 

 

 

SYNONYMS

 

 

 

krsna-nama--the holy name of Lord Krsna; loka-mukhe--from the mouth of those people; suni'--hearing; avirama--always; sei loka--those persons; vaisnava--devotees; kaila--made; anya--other; saba--all; grama--villages.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

 

Always hearing them chant the holy names of Lord Krsna, the residents of all the other villages also became Vaisnavas.

[Das Anu das]

Wordsmith Prabhu,

 

I have not elsewhere seen where Srila Prabhupada has given the instruction to his disciples to "fall down before Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and beg for the Maha-mantra from Lord."

 

And in the passage CC Adi 9:36, he says that followers of Bhaktivinode would do this. And this was the only time he gave this instruction.

 

I can understand that we all follow all the previous bona fide Sampradaya Acharyas in essence.

 

But it seems to me that largely and more specifically Srila Prabhupada's instructions were to share the Maha-mantra with others, and to request they follow the rules and regs of his society.

 

So Sri Caityanya Mahaprabhu initiated the whole world by purely sharing the Maha-mantra. Thus regardless of who shares it with us, if they follow the most recent purified acharya's instructions on how to share the maha mantra and repeat his instructions on how to chant it in a way that we will purify our offenses, they are representing the acharya perfectly, and true initiation or diksa occurs.

 

So since this passage in the CC is a small part of the conglomerate of instructions on this sharing, I see it as follows.

 

When we Preceed the chanting of the Maha-Mantra with Pranams to Sri Krsna Caitanya - Pancha Tattva, we are falling at the feet of MahaPrabhu, and begging for the ability to receive the pure nama in all its glory.

 

I hope this expansion pleases you.

 

Hare Krsna

[Kulapavana]

 

Srila Prabhupada explains who is to be known as the initiator guru (...) Getting initiation into the Maha-mantra is available to all who will bow down before Lord Caitanya and beg for this Maha-mantra.

 

let me get this straight:

if you will bow down before Lord Caitanya and beg for this Maha-mantra you become initiated? and the initiator is who? the devotee who first utters the mantra after you bow down before Mahaprabhu?

 

you folks should quit concocting stuff and and accept that the way people get initiated NOW is the same way Prabhupada was initiated THEN and everybody else in our sampradaya before him. Sure, some irregularities from the traditional system may happen from time to time in special cases, but let's not forget the millenia of traditional parampara and countless Vaishnavas who achieved pure bhakti by following that traditional process.

[Guest guest]

 

let me get this straight:

if you will bow down before Lord Caitanya and beg for this Maha-mantra you become initiated? and the initiator is who? the devotee who first utters the mantra after you bow down before Mahaprabhu?

 

you folks should quit concocting stuff and and accept that the way people get initiated NOW is the same way Prabhupada was initiated THEN and everybody else in our sampradaya before him. Sure, some irregularities from the traditional system may happen from time to time in special cases, but let's not forget the millenia of traditional parampara and countless Vaishnavas who achieved pure bhakti by following that traditional process.

 

 

Madhya 15.108

The offenseless chanting of the holy name does not depend on the initiation process. Although initiation may depend on purascarya or purascarana, the actual chanting of the holy name does not depend on purascarya-vidhi, or the regulative principles. If one chants the holy name once without committing an offense, he attains all success. During the chanting of the holy name, the tongue must work. Simply by chanting the holy name, one is immediately delivered.

 

Then again,

 

 

Madhya 15.110

"'The holy name of Lord Krsna is an attractive feature for many saintly, liberal people. It is the annihilator of all sinful reactions and is so powerful that save for the dumb who cannot chant it, it is readily available to everyone, including the lowest type of man, the candala. The holy name of Krsna is the controller of the opulence of liberation, and it is identical with Krsna. Simply by touching the holy name with one's tongue, immediate effects are produced. Chanting the holy name does not depend on initiation, pious activities or the purascarya regulative principles generally observed before initiation. The holy name does not wait for all these activities. It is self-sufficient.'"

 

 

Madhya 15.111

Whether a Vaisnava is properly initiated or not is not a subject for consideration. One may be initiated and yet contaminated by the Mayavada philosophy, but a person who chants the holy name of the Lord offenselessly will not be so contaminated. A properly initiated Vaisnava may be imperfect, but one who chants the holy name of the Lord offenselessly is all-perfect. Although he may apparently be a neophyte, he still has to be considered a pure unalloyed Vaisnava.

 

Letter to Tamal

 

 

The chanting Hare Krishna is our main business, that is real initiation. And as you are all following my instruction, in that matter, the initiator is already there.

 

Letter to Syamasundar

 

 

It is not necessary always to be officially initiated, but if they participate in the group chanting of Hare Krsna Mantra and taking of Prasadam weekly or daily as it is possible, that will fulfill our mission.

[Kulapavana]

constantly changing definitions of commonly used words can be a real problem. that confusion is an OBVIOUS fact, see above. everybody pulls out their favourite Prabhupada quote and starts building...

 

if devotees are confused as to what initiation is in Gaudiya tradition, what hope is there to agree on more advanced topics?

[Guest guest]

 

 

navadvipe yei sakti na kaila prakase

 

se sakti prakasi' nistarila daksina-dese

 

Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not manifest His spiritual potencies at Navadvipa, but He did manifest them in South India and liberated all the people there.

 

The true scope and potency of Mahaprabhu's sankirtan movement was manifested in South India in it's full-fledged form.

The vast scope and inclusiveness of Mahaprabhu's mission was not manifest anywhere in India as it was in South India.

 

Mahaprabhu's sankirtan movement was manifested in it's full-blown glory in South India.

 

Srila Prabhupada has expressed his mission as being the same as Mahaprabhu's mission in South India.

 

 

yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa

 

amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa

 

 

 

SYNONYMS

 

 

 

yare--whomever; dekha--you meet; tare--him; kaha--tell; krsna-upadesa--the instruction of the Bhagavad-gita as it is spoken by the Lord or of Srimad-Bhagavatam, which advises one to worship Sri Krsna; amara ajnaya--under My order; guru hana--becoming a spiritual master; tara'--deliver; ei desa--this country.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

 

"Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Sri Krsna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land."

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

 

This is the sublime mission of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Many people come and inquire whether they have to give up family life to join the Society, but that is not our mission. One can remain comfortably in his residence. We simply request everyone to chant the maha-mantra: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare. Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. If one is a little literate and can read the Bhagavad-gita As It Is and Srimad-Bhagavatam, that is so much the better. These works are now available in an English translation and are done very authoritatively to appeal to all classes of men. Instead of living engrossed in material activities, people throughout the world should take advantage of this movement and chant the Hare Krsna maha-mantra at home with their families. One should also refrain from sinful activities--illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling and intoxication. Out of these four items, illicit sex is very sinful. Every person must get married. Every woman especially must get married. If the women outnumber the men, some men can accept more than one wife. In that way there will be no prostitution in society. If men can marry more than one wife, illicit sex life will be stopped. One can also produce many nice preparations to offer Krsna--grain, fruit, flowers and milk. Why should one indulge in unnecessary meat-eating and maintain horrible slaughterhouses? What is the use of smoking and drinking tea and coffee? People are already intoxicated by material enjoyment, and if they indulge in further intoxication, what chance is there for self-realization? Similarly, one should not partake in gambling and unnecessarily agitate the mind. The real purpose of human life is to attain the spiritual platform and return to Godhead. That is the summum bonum of spiritual realization. The Krsna consciousness movement is trying to elevate human society to the perfection of life by pursuing the method described by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His advice to the brahmana Kurma. That is, one should stay at home, chant the Hare Krsna mantra and preach the instructions of Krsna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam.

 

Mahaprabhu wanted everyone to become siksha guru and distribute the Krishna consciousness movement everywhere.

[Guest guest]

The way I see it, Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Tradition is what our Spiritual Master and Acharya tells us it is. Those instructions BECOME our tradition.

 

Those who feel qualified to ignore the specific instructions of the Sampradaya Acharya who is the current link in their day, and thus decide to look back to the way Acharyas before that instructed their disciples and interpret that into their own circumstance are doomed to failure due to a prideful lack of humble submission to the current link.

 

If a disciple of an acharya is giving siksa, those instructions are always aligned with that disciples acharya if they are loyal and true.

 

This is called parampara system. Suppose I have heard something from my spiritual master, so I speak to you the same thing. So this is parampara system. You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand unless you understand it from me. This is called parampara system. You cannot jump over to the superior guru, neglecting the next acharya, immediate next acharya."

(Srila Prabhupada lecture December 8th, 1973)

 

"As already stated, Brahmaa is the original spiritual master for the universe, and since he was initiated by the Lord Himself, the message of Srimad-Bhaagavatam is coming down by disciplic succession, and in order to receive the real message of Srimad-Bhaagavatam one should approach the CURRENT LINK, or spiritual master, in the chain of disciplic succession. After being initiated by the proper spiritual master in that chain of succession, one should engage himself in the discharge of tapasya in the execution of devotional service." (Bhag. 2.9.7)

[gHari]

Hari Nama initiation is not known as diksa in ISKCON.

 

 

Devotee: What is to become of those devotees that leave ISKCON and take to breaking the regulative principles, and stop chanting sixteen rounds?

PrabhupAda: Explain.

Devotee: There are even brAhmaNas in our temple who have left the temple and they are acting just like karmIs.

PrabhupAda: So they were wrongly initiated. We want recommendation from the authority, whether one should be initiated, but they gave wrong information. That is the defect of the informer. [break]

TamAla KRSNa: ...Hari-nAma initiation can be a little more liberal.

PrabhupAda: Yes.

TamAla KRSNa: But brAhmaNa initiation should be strict.

PrabhupAda: Very strict. Very strict means he must be observed that he is actually chanting sixteen rounds, following the regulative principles. That's all.

TamAla KRSNa: Those are the important...?

PrabhupAda: These are the criterions, that he is actually, seriously doing this. Then he can be initiated. Otherwise useless. He will fall down. [break]

[Guest guest]

Isn't it a little peculiar that Mahaprabhu gave his famous instructions:

 

yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa

amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa

 

"Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Sri Krsna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land."

 

in south India where none of the Goswamis or direct followers of Mahaprabhu were allowed to go, preach and established what we now know as orthodox (traditional) Gaudiya Vaishnavism? (the diksha guru orthodoxy)

 

In South India, the legacy and mission of Mahaprabhu was not given the orthodox structure that the Goswamis of Vrindavan established.

 

The Sankirtan movement was given unbridled freedom to spread all over South India without the burden of orthodoxy to weigh it down.

 

The movement spread all over South India without all this formal diksha and orthodoxy. The Holy Name just spread all around and everyone attained the perfection that Mahaprabhu was offering.

 

Of course, we are not trying to minimize the orthodoxy that the Goswamis gave Gaudiya Vaishnavism in order to make it appealing and authoritative to the very great intellectual society of India.

 

Somehow, despite the efforts of the Goswamis, outside of south India the movement just didn't take off like it did for Mahaprabhu......... that is until Srila Prabhupada brought Mahaprabhu's sankirtan movement out of India.

 

Mahaprabhu's instructions

yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa

 

amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa

 

clearly refer to siksha gurus (krsna upadesa).....

NOT DIKSHA GURUS!!!

[Guest guest]

 

"the message of Srimad-Bhaagavatam is coming down by disciplic succession, and in order to receive the real message of Srimad-Bhaagavatam one should approach the CURRENT LINK, or spiritual master, in the chain of disciplic succession. After being initiated by the proper spiritual master in that chain of succession, one should engage himself in the discharge of tapasya in the execution of devotional service." (Bhag. 2.9.7)

 

Exactly.

Srila Prabhupada is the current link who rendered Srimad Bhagavatam into the English language.

In fact, he is the first acharya to render the Gaudiya Vaishnava canon (authoritatively) into a foreign language.

 

For those English speaking people who are learning Srimad Bhagavatam as translated by Srila Prabhupada, HE IS THE CURRENT LINK.

 

If somebody translates that into another language, then maybe he would be the current link for the people who speak that language.

 

For those who are learning Srimad Bhagavatam as given by Srila Prabhupada, then he is their link.

 

If some guru can memorize the whole thing and teach it to someone, then he can be the link.

[Guest guest]

 

Hari Nama initiation is not known as diksa in ISKCON.

 

 

Devotee: What is to become of those devotees that leave ISKCON and take to breaking the regulative principles, and stop chanting sixteen rounds?

PrabhupAda: Explain.

Devotee: There are even brAhmaNas in our temple who have left the temple and they are acting just like karmIs.

PrabhupAda: So they were wrongly initiated. We want recommendation from the authority, whether one should be initiated, but they gave wrong information. That is the defect of the informer. [break]

TamAla KRSNa: ...Hari-nAma initiation can be a little more liberal.

PrabhupAda: Yes.

TamAla KRSNa: But brAhmaNa initiation should be strict.

PrabhupAda: Very strict. Very strict means he must be observed that he is actually chanting sixteen rounds, following the regulative principles. That's all.

TamAla KRSNa: Those are the important...?

PrabhupAda: These are the criterions, that he is actually, seriously doing this. Then he can be initiated. Otherwise useless. He will fall down. [break]

 

When ****** Swami blooped with a young devotee girl, he became a householder and became a grower of high grade marijuana. He even supported himself with the money he made from selling marijuana.

 

However, there was an occasion that Srila Prabhupada came to L.A. and ****** prabhu went to greet Srila Prabhupada at the temple.

 

As Srila Prabhupada arrived, he was walking through a large column of devotees.

 

He stopped to embrace one disciple only and shed a tear.

 

That disciple was ******.

 

As usual, ****** was stoned.

 

That did not stop Srila Prabhupada from giving him his most gracious embrace and full blessings.

 

Evenutally, ****** made it out of householder life and pot-growing, pot smoking etc.

 

Evenutally, he got back to what Srila Prabhupada asked out of his disciples, though it might have taken twenty years or so.

[Das Anu das]

G Hari said.

 

"Hari Nama initiation is not known as diksa in ISKCON"

 

I know what you meant to say, but what you said is not entirely true.

 

Hari Nama initiation is not known as Formal Diksa Initiation in Iskcon.

 

2nd or Brahmana initiation where one receives the gayatri mantra is known as Formal Diksa Initiation.

 

Diksa is a process. "Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa."

(C.c. Madhya, 15.108, purport)

 

To enter the process of Transcendental Diksa is not dependent on Formal Initiation,

 

“Srila Prabhupada said ‘From 1922 to 1933 practically I

was not initiatied, but I got the impression of preaching Caitanya

Mahaprabhu’s cult. That I was thinking. And that was the initi-

ation by my Guru Maharaja. Then, officially, I was initiated in

1933, because in 1923 I left Calcutta.’

 

yet in the case of most cases of material conditioning, Formal Initiation supports the Process of Diksa as it unfolds. see CC Mad.15:108

 

The vow to chant the Maha-Mantra and follow the rules and regs is made at the 1st Hari Nama Initiation. So this clearly shows that the disciple is already engaged in the process of Diksa.

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja gives a very long, detailed, and authoritatively referenced lecture, the conclusion of which is that everyone must undergo 2nd or Brahmana Gayatri or Diksa Mantra inititiation in order to relieve themselves of offenses to chanting the Holy Name, and that it is the example set by every acharya in our line, See VNN and look for this page The Absolute Necessity Of Second Initiation Jan 30, 2003

 

Yet the process of Diksa begins, or is initiated, when a person accepts the instructions of a great soul to chant and follow some instructions.

 

Diksa, being a process, cannot be defined by a stage or supporting event within the process, such as a formal initiation.

 

As for why the 2nd or Brahman initiation is considered the Formal Diksa Initiation, that I do not have an answer for.

 

My inference would be that for so many fallen souls, the process of Diksa cannot be completed without it, and thus it gets this emphasis. The Process of Diksa is complete when the disciple has all transcendental knowledge the Mantras have to give.

 

"Then you can say 'Yes, I know everything' Diksa. Diksa, initiation, diksa, this Sanskrit word, diksa, means divya-jnanam ksipayati ask from spiritual master with service and surrender the transcendental knowledge. The more you ask, you become a man of knowledge. Then you can challenge, and then 'Yes, I know everything'. "

(Morning Walk 11th June 1974)

"Which explains the of divya-jnana, transcendental, that is diksa. Di divya diksanam. Diksa. Divya-jnana, transcendental knowledge. [...] if you don't accept a spiritual master how you'll get transcen...You'll be taught here and there, here and there, and waste time. Waste time for the teacher and waste your valuable time. Therefore you have to be guided by an expert Spiritual Master. "

(Room Conversation 27th January 1977)

 

"In the matter if of divya-jnana - [it comprises] knowledge of the original form [conveyed] within the divine mantra along with which is specific knowledge of [the individuals] relationship with the Supreme Lord. "

(Bhakti Sandarbha 243)

 

Hare Krsna

[stonehearted]

That's quite an interesting account of ******'s leaving. I believe he gave up his sannyasa and GBC reponsibilities in 1976. It appears that the meeting to which you refer must have been in June '76. Can you confirm that? Srila Prabhupada had written him from Honolulu in May '76 asking to meet with him, either there (Honolulu) or in LA.

 

As far as his being a grower of high-grade pakalolo, I suppose that's possible. He lived way out in the country on Maui in '76 and '77. I don't know what he did most of the time, but I saw him sometimes when he came into Wailuku, often running into him on my morning japa walk (he was also out chanting japa). Later in '77, he went to Vrindavan to see Srila Prabhupada (as did my old friend and mentor Goursundar). Prabhupada was so happy to see both of them that he cried openly. Srila Prabhupada loves his servants unconditionally. Small-timer that I am, even I have that experience. After that, ****** moved to Honolulu, where he did service at the ISKCON temple (and lived next door to me for a while).

[Guest guest]

 

That's quite an interesting account of ******'s leaving. I believe he gave up his sannyasa and GBC reponsibilities in 1976. It appears that the meeting to which you refer must have been in June '76. Can you confirm that? Srila Prabhupada had written him from Honolulu in May '76 asking to meet with him, either there (Honolulu) or in LA.

 

As far as his being a grower of high-grade pakalolo, I suppose that's possible. He lived way out in the country on Maui in '76 and '77. I don't know what he did most of the time, but I saw him sometimes when he came into Wailuku, often running into him on my morning japa walk (he was also out chanting japa). Later in '77, he went to Vrindavan to see Srila Prabhupada (as did my old friend and mentor Goursundar). Prabhupada was so happy to see both of them that he cried openly. Srila Prabhupada loves his servants unconditionally. Small-timer that I am, even I have that experience. After that, ****** moved to Honolulu, where he did service at the ISKCON temple (and lived next door to me for a while).

 

****** lived in Badger,California for several years.

Had a spread on the Panarama Farm.

grew some potent weed.

****** lived in a camper on his property...... grew some potent weed.

 

I lived in Badger for years.

Had a spread on Panorama Farm.

I knew ******. Even as a pothead he maintained a very appreciable standard of deity worship and murti worship of Srila Prabhuapada. He could never leave Krishna consciousness no matter how far he deviated. He was a lover of Prabhupada in all circumstances.

The story I told about him might have taken some poetic license, but the gist is the same.

 

****** lived there too........grew some potent weed.....

 

I don't know the exact dates involved in the story I told.......

It's just a local fable I heard in Badger.

[Guest guest]

Now, who is going to tell us that someone can bow down at the lotus feet of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu (or Srila Prabhupada murti) and beg for the maha-mantra and NOT get his mercy?

 

Mahaprabhu freely gave his mercy.

 

Why would he deprive anyone who falls down before him begging for the maha-mantra?

 

Some neophyte might give us a semblence of the maha-mantra, but to get the real thing we must beg it from Mahaprabhu at his feet or the feet of his pure devotee.

 

Official gurus are not always dependable.

If we want to be assured of getting the PURE thing, then we must beg that from the Lord.

[Guest guest]

Fine Guest Prabhu,

 

As of now you are duly noted to have begun your own sub branch of the Gaudiya Sampradaya. The Bow and Hope Matha.

 

You instruct all new Aspirants who come into your purview that if they want to become liberated from birth and death, and attain service to the Supreme Being, they need to bow down to a picture of Srila Prabhupada and ask him for a mantra to chant.

 

Of course they will not know that it is the Maha mantra or what that is yet.

 

So you can instruct him to ask for the Maha Mantra. And if he gets up off the ground and says, the only thing that came into my mind was me thinking of how cold the floor is, you just tell him he is not pure enough yet to hear Srila Prabhupada's voice giving him the mantra.

 

Then you can assign a purification regimen to prepare this new aspirant to become less offensive so that he can hear the next time he bows.

 

And if Srila Prabhupada actually has mercy on YOU, he will never tell this person the mantra, and the person will get sick of you and leave.

 

And then if he is really sincere, Srila Prabhupada will guide him to a Bona Fide Iskcon temple, (some still exist) and he will get into the real process that he authorized.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

 

Fine Guest Prabhu,

 

As of now you are duly noted to have begun your own sub branch of the Gaudiya Sampradaya. The Bow and Hope Matha.

 

You instruct all new Aspirants who come into your purview that if they want to become liberated from birth and death, and attain service to the Supreme Being, they need to bow down to a picture of Srila Prabhupada and ask him for a mantra to chant.

 

Of course they will not know that it is the Maha mantra or what that is yet.

 

So you can instruct him to ask for the Maha Mantra. And if he gets up off the ground and says, the only thing that came into my mind was me thinking of how cold the floor is, you just tell him he is not pure enough yet to hear Srila Prabhupada's voice giving him the mantra.

 

Then you can assign a purification regimen to prepare this new aspirant to become less offensive so that he can hear the next time he bows.

 

And if Srila Prabhupada actually has mercy on YOU, he will never tell this person the mantra, and the person will get sick of you and leave.

 

And then if he is really sincere, Srila Prabhupada will guide him to a Bona Fide Iskcon temple, (some still exist) and he will get into the real process that he authorized.

 

Hare Krsna

 

 

 

enechi ausadhi maya nasibara lagi'

hari-nama-maha-mantra lao tumi magi'

bhakativinoda prabhu-carane padiya

sei hari-nama-mantra laila magiya

A person who is actually a follower of Sri Bhaktivinoda Thakura must immediately accept the request of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu by offering respectful obeisances unto His lotus feet and thus beg from Him the Hare Krsna maha-mantra. If one is fortunate enough to beg from the Lord this Hare Krsna maha-mantra, his life is successful.

Adi 9 36 purport

 

This is the teaching of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Your taking issue with that is your own choice.

[stonehearted]

 

****** lived in Badger,California for several years.

Had a spread on the Panarama Farm. . . . Even as a pothead he maintained a very appreciable standard of deity worship and murti worship of Srila Prabhuapada. He could never leave Krishna consciousness no matter how far he deviated. He was a lover of Prabhupada in all circumstances.

He is, indeed. When I saw him on Maui, he was out early in the morning chanting japa. And when I saw him and Asha in California (I lived at BV for a few years), he was always happy and the wonderful kirtan leader I remember from 1970, when he came through Honolulu with Srila Prabhupada. I'm always happy to see ******, and he has always treated me very kindly.

 

We sometimes see ****** here on the Big Island, but almost never at any devotional gatherings anymore.

[Guest guest]

 

 

We sometimes see Revatinandana here on the Big Island, but almost never at any devotional gatherings anymore.

 

I ran into Shambhu (Revatinandan) a couple of times when I was on the big Island many moons ago.

 

He was still internally very fond of Srila Prabhupada, yet he maintained a low profile as a devotee.

 

His Mom was the only disciple's mother that I know of that Srila Prabhupada mentioned in the Bhagavatam.

 

Because when his Mom was passing away Revatinandan was by her side and she asked him with her last breath "where is your Krishna now".

 

Srila Prabhupada mentioned that, though not by name in a Bhagavatam purport.

I just saw that purport the other day, but I did not mark it so I can't say exactly right now.

I think it was in the Seventh canto.

[Guest guest]

Stonehearted,

 

I found that reference in Srimad Bhagavatam about Revantinandan's Mom.

 

Seventh canto chapter 9, text 11 purport:

 

We have had actual experience of how Americans and Europeans, because of their full Krsna consciousness, have purified their whole families, so much so that a mother of a devotee, at the time of her death, inquired about Krsna with her last breath. Therefore it is theoretically true and has been practically proven that a devotee can give the best service to his family, his community, his society and his nation.

 

My guess is that this is Revatinandan's Mom, as I heard that on her death bed, with her last breath she asked Revatinandan "where is your Krishna now".

[Guest guest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guest

Fine Guest Prabhu,

 

As of now you are duly noted to have begun your own sub branch of the Gaudiya Sampradaya. The Bow and Hope Matha.

 

You instruct all new Aspirants who come into your purview that if they want to become liberated from birth and death, and attain service to the Supreme Being, they need to bow down to a picture of Srila Prabhupada and ask him for a mantra to chant.

 

Of course they will not know that it is the Maha mantra or what that is yet.

 

So you can instruct him to ask for the Maha Mantra. And if he gets up off the ground and says, the only thing that came into my mind was me thinking of how cold the floor is, you just tell him he is not pure enough yet to hear Srila Prabhupada's voice giving him the mantra.

 

Then you can assign a purification regimen to prepare this new aspirant to become less offensive so that he can hear the next time he bows.

 

And if Srila Prabhupada actually has mercy on YOU, he will never tell this person the mantra, and the person will get sick of you and leave.

 

And then if he is really sincere, Srila Prabhupada will guide him to a Bona Fide Iskcon temple, (some still exist) and he will get into the real process that he authorized.

 

Hare Krsna

-

 

Quote:

enechi ausadhi maya nasibara lagi'

hari-nama-maha-mantra lao tumi magi'

bhakativinoda prabhu-carane padiya

sei hari-nama-mantra laila magiya

 

A person who is actually a follower of Sri Bhaktivinoda Thakura must immediately accept the request of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu by offering respectful obeisances unto His lotus feet and thus beg from Him the Hare Krsna maha-mantra. If one is fortunate enough to beg from the Lord this Hare Krsna maha-mantra, his life is successful.

Adi 9 36 purport

 

 

This is the teaching of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Your taking issue with that is your own choice.

 

-------

yeah yeah, I get it, you were just trying to make a point. But so was I. Too much wrangling with cherry picking guru wannabees and we can get bogged down in same, and look almost as foolish. Love to see you in action, hate to see you suffer.

 

Hari Bol

[Guest guest]

 

Love to see you in action, hate to see you suffer.

 

Hari Bol

 

yeah thanks....

but you wouldn't know if I was in action or not.

Nobody does.

I live anonymously in a place where no devotees know me.

 

Whether I am in action or not is really just wild guess or an insult.

 

You talk as if you know I am not in action.

 

You don't even know who I am.

 

Everybody suffers.

Try to tell me you don't, ISKCON gurus don't, Narayana Maharaja don't, Puru das don't etc. etc................. then I would say that you must be in illusion.

 

I would rather have my own suffering than the suffering of a lot devotees who tried to become guru and only brought disgrace upon the parampara system.

 

I am quite content in my own suffering.

 

Don't feel too sorry for me.

[Guest guest]

 

As of now you are duly noted to have begun your own sub branch of the Gaudiya Sampradaya. The Bow and Hope Matha.

 

Ain't nobody got anything except a bow and hope situation.

 

Some prefer to bow and hope before some ISKCON guru and some prefer to bow and hope before old Swamis from the Gaudiya Math.

 

Bow and hope is the only thing anyone can do.

 

I don't see anything wrong with bowing to Mahaprabhu and begging for the Holy Name.