Hindus & Indians & Hare Krishna's

[Pankaja_Dasa]

When we say (Hare-Krishna's) that there is no such word in VEDIC SCRIPTURES as Hindus, it doesn't mean that you’re not INDIAN. Or have an identity as an Indian Person. I.e. and Italian person Maybe a Christian but he/she is still also an Italian body with their Italian ways etc.

 

I think Indians seem to think Hare Krishna’s have something against Indians. But we don't. It's when they proclaim themselves as 'Hindus'. I think many westerners and others (Muslims + Christians) see our religion as some sort of mafia type deal. Wherein unless you’re a Hindu you cannot enter into it. (Muslims across the world has this misconception). And Hindus also haven't helped with their Hindu flag waving. What happened to being Indian?

 

So I think people on this forum should consider carefully what it actually means to be a TRUE HINDU (Vedic person, Sanatana-dharma). And not think Hare Krishna's are trying to take away your Indian ways etc.

 

Actually identifying with being Hindu is totally stopping the preaching mission of Sanatana-dharma, because people think you need to be 'Hindu' to enter into it. They (anybody) ask what do 'Hindus' do? Oh I do this etc. That's where it ends. And this also is not good for the person. I hope people read this post with an open mind. Two different things Hindu * Indian. Please don't mix religion with your body. (Where you are from). Hindu is a bodily designation such as Indian. Sanatana-dharma is an eternal designation pertaining to any colour or creed.

 

Thankyou:pray:

 

Ps, I am Indian.

[Yogkriya]

Hinduism IS the ageless Sanatana Dharma. It is a relatively newer name given to it. And Hindus know it. The Sanatana Dharma is not simply confined to Gaudiya Sampradaya. And what sadhna method adapted by gaudiyas is also not the only bonafide method prescribed in Sanatana Dharma. It indeed has a number of branches.

 

An Indian is a citizen of India. Nothing to do with the citizen's race or religion. But yes, India is the epicenter of Sanatana Dharma.

 

Hare Krishna's don't have anything against the Indians, but certainely do agains the Hindus. You don't have to be a 'Hindu' to practice anything Sanatana, but you automatically come under the Hindu umbrella, because it is the Sanatana Dharma. Period.

The famous quote to put down Hinduism used by Iskcon that there is no such word as Hindu in Vedas has no meaning. Because then, there is no such word as 'Iskcon' in the Vedas either!! It is 'made-up'. And Iskcon does not accept all of Vedas either. So what's the big deal?

 

The regulatory principles practiced by Iskcon members is important and appreciable. This reflects the Vaishnava intentions of developing the Sato Guna and external and internal cleanliness. Which is important for mantra sadhna and getting closer to the Lord.

Devotional love (bhakti) and compassion are also two important qualities of a Vaishnava too. This is also well preached in Iskcon. And is a base for any other Vaishnava sect/cult/Group/Sampradaya.

 

Identifying yourself with being a Hindu has not in the least stopped the preaching of Sanatana Dharma. In fact Hinduism is recognized as Sanatana Dharma world wide. It has brought the principles of Yoga, mantra, bhakti, auyurveda, Ras vigyan, TM, Kriya, kundalini yoga, hath yoga, tantra and a number of other Vedic practices to the world. Sanatan Dharma is NOT limited and stuck up to the manjari bhava or bheda-bhed bhava of Chaitanya. It is one of it. Vaishnavism is one major branch of it. Hare Krishnas come under Vaishnavism, hence are part of Hinduism, Sanatan Dharma too. It's a different matter that SPP decided to side track itself from it. And he side tracked himself from the Gaudiya math too.

Each time one stream wants to separate itself from the ocean called Hinduism (Sanatana Dharma), in order to establish its separate identity, it has to claim that it has nothing to do with 'Hinduism'. If we see today, Sikhism in its base also uses bhakti and Sikhs were made out of Hindus, Jainism, Budhism and most other religions sprung up from Hinduism. Though today they have a separate indentity. Jesus contemplated on his spiritual knowledge and meditated in India too. All different schools of yogas and various sub sects are assimilated into Hinduism. Of course one sect may have just one set of practice and lineage/system of belief/mood etc.. but still it is categorized as Hindu / Sanatana Dharma.

 

Vaishnavism is an essential part of Hinduism, and Iskcon practices Vaishnavism. Though every sect may have the right to feel that theirs in the best and others are not doing it right. SPP didn't like ritualism. Fine. Yagya is a ritual too. And a Vedic one at that. Iskcon also performs Yagyas (more specifically havans), but without Ganapati pooja first which is not correct according to Vedic norms. .. oh but anyways...

 

If one brother stops recognizes another brother as his brother, the father does not change beacuse of it. The family tree does not change. It is remains the same.

 

Jai Gurudev!

Om Namah Shivaya!!

 

 

When we say (Hare-Krishna's) that there is no such word in VEDIC SCRIPTURES as Hindus, it doesn't mean that you’re not INDIAN. Or have an identity as an Indian Person. I.e. and Italian person Maybe a Christian but he/she is still also an Italian body with their Italian ways etc.

 

I think Indians seem to think Hare Krishna’s have something against Indians. But we don't. It's when they proclaim themselves as 'Hindus'. I think many westerners and others (Muslims + Christians) see our religion as some sort of mafia type deal. Wherein unless you’re a Hindu you cannot enter into it. (Muslims across the world has this misconception). And Hindus also haven't helped with their Hindu flag waving. What happened to being Indian?

 

So I think people on this forum should consider carefully what it actually means to be a TRUE HINDU (Vedic person, Sanatana-dharma). And not think Hare Krishna's are trying to take away your Indian ways etc.

 

Actually identifying with being Hindu is totally stopping the preaching mission of Sanatana-dharma, because people think you need to be 'Hindu' to enter into it. They (anybody) ask what do 'Hindus' do? Oh I do this etc. That's where it ends. And this also is not good for the person. I hope people read this post with an open mind. Two different things Hindu * Indian. Please don't mix religion with your body. (Where you are from). Hindu is a bodily designation such as Indian. Sanatana-dharma is an eternal designation pertaining to any colour or creed.

 

Thankyou:pray:

 

Ps, I am Indian.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Hinduism IS the ageless Sanatana Dharma. It is a relatively newer name given to it. And Hindus know it. The Sanatana Dharma is not simply confined to Gaudiya Sampradaya. And what sadhna method adapted by gaudiyas is also not the only bonafide method prescribed in Sanatana Dharma. It indeed has a number of branches.

 

In fact Hinduism is recognized as Sanatana Dharma world wide. It has brought the principles of Yoga, mantra, bhakti, auyurveda, Ras vigyan, TM, Kriya, kundalini yoga, hath yoga, tantra and a number of other Vedic practices to the world.

 

Do the demi-gods in the heavenly planets practice Hinduisum? Do you think in Satya-yuga people will be practising Hindusium? It's a temporary word to describe people who come from India. And Indians started to use it. It's temporary NOTHING to do with Sanatana-dharma.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Sanatan Dharma is NOT limited and stuck up to the manjari bhava or bheda-bhed bhava of Chaitanya. It is one of it. Vaishnavism is one major branch of it. Hare Krishnas come under Vaishnavism, hence are part of Hinduism, Sanatan Dharma too. It's a different matter that SPP decided to side track itself from it. And he side tracked himself from the Gaudiya math too.

 

You just said that Vaishanasivm is part of Hinduisum, then you said SPP side-tracked from it. How do you feel this took place? Why do Hindus always feel hurt when somebody tells them actually we are not Hindus we are Sanatanaists (according to the Vedic Scriptures). ANY Sandhu in India will tell you that you are this. What is all the fuss about. Maybe it's the small people crying. Goto a Sadhu or Swami in India and ask them.

 

And the claim you made above is your speculation, Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada gave everything 100% according to the wish and desire of His spiritual master and Krishna.

[Guest guest]

 

Hindu is a bodily designation such as Indian.

 

This is not correct. Hindu-ISM is a religion, NOT a race.

 

One of the largest Hindu missionary groups in the west, is run by a group of white monks in Hawaii. They are Saivite Hindus, and publish an international magazine called Hinduism Today. They have done much to dispell the myths that Hindu-ISM is just for Indians:

 

 

by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami

Founder of Hinduism Today Magazine

 

There are hundreds of thousands of people who have been dislodged from their parents' religion through their belief in reincarnation, karma and the knowledge of God's all pervasiveness, and yet they have not been fully taken into the Hindu religion or its community of devotees. Why? Because of color? Yes, that is partly true. Many Indian people say, "You have to be born a Hindu to be a Hindu. You cannot adopt the Hindu religion. You have to be born a Hindu to be a Hindu." This, of course, is not true. Other Indian Hindus say, "You have to be born in India and in a caste to be a Hindu." This also is not true. What about all of you who were born and live here in Sri Lanka? What about the Hindus in Bali, those in Malaysia or the Hindus born in Trinidad, Nepal, Europe, Guyana, Suriname and elsewhere? Are they not Hindus?

 

We did some research on this erroneous statement: "You cannot convert to Hinduism." We studied dozens of books and noted down all of the quotes that we could find that said, "You have to be born a Hindu to be a Hindu" or "You have to be born in India to be a Hindu." We found that these two quotes were only in the books authored by Christians. These statements, we concluded, were nothing more than Christian propaganda against the Hindu religion. Presumably, the Christians knew that if they could stop or at least slow down the growth of Hinduism through conversion, they would make more progress in their own conversions and in a few generations perhaps destroy Hinduism. We did not find these statements in a single book written by a Hindu author.

 

In fact, eminent Hindu authors have said that you can convert to Hinduism. Swami Vivekananda proclaimed, "Born aliens have been converted in the past by crowds, and the process is still going on." Even if you only adopt Hindu practices, believe in reincarnation and karma and do a puja once a day, you are a Hindu and will be accepted by Hindu society. Unfortunately, a minority of Hindus of Indian origin, educated in Christian schools, and even a few Western-influenced swamis and pandits and one or two Shankaracharyas, echo this misinformation with conviction. We can now see how the Christian propaganda has negatively influenced the growth of Hinduism worldwide. Their propaganda has infiltrated, diluted and destroyed the Hindu's faith in his own religion.

[Guest guest]

 

Why do Hindus always feel hurt when somebody tells them actually we are not Hindus we are Sanatanaists (according to the Vedic Scriptures).

 

Be very, very careful about calling yourself a Sanatanaist in the west! Some may think you are a 'satanist' with a lisp.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna!

 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I offer my humble obeisance unto him!

 

Pankaja Dasa's post has elicited the true problem we face today. Hinduism or Sanatan Dharma. Some say both are the same and some say it is not.

 

I personally concur with Pankaj Das and in that process with Srila Prabhupada.

 

If Sanatan Dharma is Sanatan Dharma...then why is it called hinduism. Just because there is an "ISM" as suffix, it does not make it a bonafide word.

 

Anybody from the land of HINDUSTAN are called HINDUS...just like Americans from America. A person from Hindustan can be a christian or muslim or following Sanatan Dharma.

 

WHile CHristian and Muslim is a designation.....Sanatan Dharma is not and preaches human life as a way to attain God...so there is no branding and but just teachings on how to live life simple and attain the highest goal.

 

Where does HINDU come here.........it does not....because the word HINDUS does not have any spiritual significance.

 

Hinduism (lack of a better word) is a way of life and not brand name and hence the word Sanatan Dharma best fits that description and not the word Hindu.

 

Haribol!

 

anand

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

This is not correct. Hindu-ISM is a religion, NOT a race.

 

 

Where in Vedic Scriptures does it say the soul is Hindu. Please show me.

 

If somebody ( a sadhu) says follow Hinduism (properly) it means Sanatana-dharma.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

WHile CHristian and Muslim is a designation.....Sanatan Dharma is not and preaches human life as a way to attain God...so there is no branding and but just teachings on how to live life simple and attain the highest goal.

 

This is the Vedic Teachings, that anybody can change their religion from being a Christian to Muslim etc, but Sanatana-dharma means eternal religion (that which cannot be changed). This is the actual meaning of this word.

Eternal religion of the soul.

 

 

Where does HINDU come here.........it does not....because the word HINDUS does not have any spiritual significance.

 

None at all!!

[Guest guest]

 

Where in Vedic Scriptures does it say the soul is Hindu. Please show me.

 

where does it say in the Vedic Scriptures the soul is a Gaudiya? Please show me. This too is nothing but a label. A label that helps identify our beliefs and where we are coming from.

 

Hinduism is the term most are aware of, when it comes to labeling the Vedic traditions. Whether we agree with that or not, it's the most recognizable term. So when we are at a hospital for example, and it asks us to list our religion, we will not see the term Vaishnava or Saivite as a choice, but we will see the term Hindu. So that's the term we would select if we follow a Vedic tradition.

 

Hinduism is simply the easiest title to use when someone who has zero idea of Vedic traditions asks us what our religion is. Even though the soul has no such labels, for matters in the 'outer world,' it's important to use certain labels so people have some basic idea where we are coming from.

 

If someone asks our religion/tradition and we say we are a 'labelless soul', they will have no idea what we tradition we are from. However, if we say Hindu, than they will have a general idea. From there, we can go further and explain our particular sect, such as Saivite, Smarta, Vaishnava, or whatever it may be.

 

It's up to you, if you don't want to use the term Hindu, I have no problem with that. But don't beat up others who do. We are being petty when we get all caught up in these 'label arguments'.

 

 

If somebody ( a sadhu) says follow Hinduism (properly) it means Sanatana-dharma.

 

Agreed. Sanatana Dharma is the best and the actual name of our path. So perhaps we should just say Sanatana Dharma to identify ourselves? Then we can say what this means in Sanskrit, and clarify that the outer label is associated with Hinduism, although it transcends outer labels . . . but again at hospitals this will not be an option, so still sometimes we will be forced to admit we are a part of the Hindu religion. Just like the Gaudiyas had to when they wanted their temple built in Russia.