Why don't the demigods visit earth anymore?

[Gaea]

 

Could I please have the reference? I have visited Bhatkivedanta manor, and would really like to know where this info is from...

Sri Sri Radha Gokulananda ki JAYA!!

 

i actually read this story right here on this forum a couple of years ago. sorry can't be more specific than that!!

[Bhava dasa]

 

"if" he had previous births, they would be to serve Krsna in this world? was Prahupada ever a fallen jiva?

I have included the following for your consideration:

 

Srila Prabhupada (Letter to: Tamala Krsna -- Los Angeles 21 June, 1970):

 

"[1.] A Spiritual Master is always liberated. In any condition of His life He should not be mistaken as ordinary human being. This position of a Spiritual Master is achieved by three processes. One is called sadhana siddha. That means one who is liberated by executing the regulative principle of devotional service. Another is krpa siddha, one who is liberated by the mercy of Krsna or His devotee. And another is nitya siddha who is never forgetful of Krsna throughout his whole life. These are the three features of the perfection of life.

 

So far Narada Muni is concerned, in His previous life He was a maidservant's son, but by the mercy of the devotees He later on became siddha and next life He appeared as Narada with complete freedom to move anywhere by the grace of the Lord. So even though He was in his previous life a maidservant's son there was no impediment in the achievement of His perfect spiritual life. Similarly any living entity who is conditioned can achieve the perfectional stage of life by the above mentioned processes and the vivid example is Narada Muni.

 

[2.] So I do not know why you have asked about my previous life. Whether I was subjected to the laws of material nature? So, even though accepting that I was subjected to the laws of material nature, does it hamper in my becoming Spiritual Master? What is your opinion? From the life of Narada Muni it is distinct that although He was a conditioned soul in His previous life, there was no impediment of His becoming the Spiritual Master. This law is applicable not only to the Spiritual Master, but to every living entity.

 

There are thousands of examples explained in our books that the conditioned soul is never affected with the material body. It is said in the Vedas asamga ayam purusa which means the living entity is always unaffected with matter. Another example is given that the reflection of the moon on water appears to be moving, but actually the moon is not moving, it is fixed up. So any living entity is like that. His reflection on the material body appears to be changing, but the spirit soul is fixed up, therefore this movement is called illusion.

 

Liberation means liberation from this changing condition.

 

So far I am concerned,[3.] I cannot say what I was in my previous life, but one great astrologer calculated that I was previously a physician and my life was sinless. Besides that, to corroborate the statement of Bhagavad-gita "sucinam srimatam gehe yogabhrasta samyayate'' which means an unfinished yogi takes birth in rich family or born of a suci or pious father. By the grace of Krsna I got these two opportunities in the present life to be born of a pious father and brought up in one of the richest, aristocratic families of Calcutta (Kasinath Mullick). The Radha Krsna Deity in this family called me to meet Him, and therefore last time when I was in Calcutta, I stayed in that temple along with my American disciples. Although I had immense opportunities to indulge in the four principles of sinful life because I was connected with a very aristocratic family, Krsna always saved me, and throughout my whole life I do not know what is illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating or gambling. [4.] So far my present life is concerned, I do not remember any part of my life when I was forgetful of Krsna."

 

1. The instruction speaks for itself.

 

2. This is practically a chastisement not to dwell on this subject. After all, what does it matter? If the guru comes from the category of "sadhana siddha" or “kripa siddha”, does that make him any less qualified? No. Not according to the example above regarding Narada Muni.

 

3. Here Srila Prabhupada is not confirming as such, as much as stating that according to one great astrologer, he was a physician in his previous life. Note also that he includes the word "sinless". The point here is that even if he had a previous life, it was not ordinary—it was without sin. Who that person was is not known; that in itself raises a number of other questions. Was it as we might initially conclude, as a physician in the ordinary sense? Or, could it be personally with Krsna...? We don't know. Why speculate.

 

We have a relationship with him as our Gurudeva in this life. We are his servants, to assist him in his mission of fulfilling the desire of his dear Lords, Sri Sri Radha Krsna. That is our meditation. And if he sees fit, we will continue to assist him in his future loving service to Them—even if it is as a blade of grass.

 

4. Here he is clearly stating his position. This is nitya-siddha.

 

Hare Krsna.

[Yogkriya]

Spiritual Master is always liberated!? hmm.. Depends what spiritual master he was talking about.. In general yes. But then ... Hari Kesh Swami was/is also a spiritual master.

The term siddha/siddhi used is too generalized and does not pertain to any siddhi here. Again the relevance of Narada Muni and a "Spiritual Master" as

a regular Iskcon acharya seems to be on a same level. That's the view reflected at least. I suppose a GBC member and Narad Muni are no considered at a similar level. Because if not, then there must be more classification on the sadhna and siddhi level of a sadhaka. Distributing books can be service but not a Vedic Sadhna leading to a Siddhi. But just service. Though it can be exalted and glorified to any level. Some thoughts.

 

Also, these are specific Iskcon questions that could be discussed in Iskcon Forum though. Since others are banned from Iskcon forums, hence strictly Iskcon questions should be also focused on hare Krishna/Iskcon Gaudiya forums.

Just a suggestion for JND.

 

The forums are marked differently, but all of them seems to be Hare Krishna Forums. lol.

 

 

 

I have included the following for your consideration:

 

Srila Prabhupada (Letter to: Tamala Krsna -- Los Angeles 21 June, 1970):

 

"[1.] A Spiritual Master is always liberated. In any condition of His life He should not be mistaken as ordinary human being. This position of a Spiritual Master is achieved by three processes. One is called sadhana siddha. That means one who is liberated by executing the regulative principle of devotional service. Another is krpa siddha, one who is liberated by the mercy of Krsna or His devotee. And another is nitya siddha who is never forgetful of Krsna throughout his whole life. These are the three features of the perfection of life.

 

So far Narada Muni is concerned, in His previous life He was a maidservant's son, but by the mercy of the devotees He later on became siddha and next life He appeared as Narada with complete freedom to move anywhere by the grace of the Lord. So even though He was in his previous life a maidservant's son there was no impediment in the achievement of His perfect spiritual life. Similarly any living entity who is conditioned can achieve the perfectional stage of life by the above mentioned processes and the vivid example is Narada Muni.

 

[2.] So I do not know why you have asked about my previous life. Whether I was subjected to the laws of material nature? So, even though accepting that I was subjected to the laws of material nature, does it hamper in my becoming Spiritual Master? What is your opinion? From the life of Narada Muni it is distinct that although He was a conditioned soul in His previous life, there was no impediment of His becoming the Spiritual Master. This law is applicable not only to the Spiritual Master, but to every living entity.

 

There are thousands of examples explained in our books that the conditioned soul is never affected with the material body. It is said in the Vedas asamga ayam purusa which means the living entity is always unaffected with matter. Another example is given that the reflection of the moon on water appears to be moving, but actually the moon is not moving, it is fixed up. So any living entity is like that. His reflection on the material body appears to be changing, but the spirit soul is fixed up, therefore this movement is called illusion.

 

Liberation means liberation from this changing condition.

 

So far I am concerned,[3.] I cannot say what I was in my previous life, but one great astrologer calculated that I was previously a physician and my life was sinless. Besides that, to corroborate the statement of Bhagavad-gita "sucinam srimatam gehe yogabhrasta samyayate'' which means an unfinished yogi takes birth in rich family or born of a suci or pious father. By the grace of Krsna I got these two opportunities in the present life to be born of a pious father and brought up in one of the richest, aristocratic families of Calcutta (Kasinath Mullick). The Radha Krsna Deity in this family called me to meet Him, and therefore last time when I was in Calcutta, I stayed in that temple along with my American disciples. Although I had immense opportunities to indulge in the four principles of sinful life because I was connected with a very aristocratic family, Krsna always saved me, and throughout my whole life I do not know what is illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating or gambling. [4.] So far my present life is concerned, I do not remember any part of my life when I was forgetful of Krsna."

 

1. The instruction speaks for itself.

 

2. This is practically a chastisement not to dwell on this subject. After all, what does it matter? If the guru comes from the category of "sadhana siddha" or “kripa siddha”, does that make him any less qualified? No. Not according to the example above regarding Narada Muni.

 

3. Here Srila Prabhupada is not confirming as such, as much as stating that according to one great astrologer, he was a physician in his previous life. Note also that he includes the word "sinless". The point here is that even if he had a previous life, it was not ordinary—it was without sin. Who that person was is not known; that in itself raises a number of other questions. Was it as we might initially conclude, as a physician in the ordinary sense? Or, could it be personally with Krsna...? We don't know. Why speculate.

 

We have a relationship with him as our Gurudeva in this life. We are his servants, to assist him in his mission of fulfilling the desire of his dear Lords, Sri Sri Radha Krsna. That is our meditation. And if he sees fit, we will continue to assist him in his future loving service to Them—even if it is as a blade of grass.

 

4. Here he is clearly stating his position. This is nitya-siddha.

 

Hare Krsna.

[Bhava dasa]

 

Spiritual Master is always liberated!? hmm.. Depends what spiritual master he was talking about.. In general yes. But then ... Hari Kesh Swami was/is also a spiritual master.

Even if one is from the category of kanistha or madhyama, he can accept the position of guru. Here Srila Prabhupada is specifically referring to the uttama-adhikari guru. He is always liberated.

 

 

Again the relevance of Narada Muni and a "Spiritual Master" as a regular Iskcon acharya seems to be on a same level. That's the view reflected at least.

No. This interpretation of yours is not correct.

 

 

Distributing books can be service but not a Vedic Sadhna leading to a Siddhi. But just service. Though it can be exalted and glorified to any level.

Your opinion on this does not align itself with the great maha-bhagavata acaryas in our sampradaya. Their opinions is that the distribution of this great literature and the public chanting of the Holy Names is the yajna of the present age, and leads to the highest perfectional stage of love of God—Krsna prema. "But just service"?

 

 

Also, these are specific Iskcon questions that could be discussed in Iskcon Forum though. Since others are banned from Iskcon forums, hence strictly Iskcon questions should be also focused on hare Krishna/Iskcon Gaudiya forums.

 

Yes, they could be, but since they are posted here, why should we not be allowed to discuss them? After all…you are. Aside from that, you enter into those forums and try to impose your viewpoints there. Why should we remain silent while you continue on with this distortion of Gaudiya siddhanta?

 

 

The forums are marked differently, but all of them seems to be Hare Krishna Forums. lol.

Hare Krsna

[Yogkriya]

Bhava dasa: Even if one is from the category of kanistha or madhyama, he can accept the position of guru. Here Srila Prabhupada is specifically referring to the uttama-adhikari guru. He is always liberated.

 

Yogkriya: Where is the uttama-adhikari guru?? Any names? I'd like to have the fortune of meeting him.

 

Bhava das: No. This interpretation of yours is not correct.

 

Yogkriya: So You are trying to imply that a regular gbc and Narada Muni are at the same level?

Again please let me know the name/s of anyone in any country, andd i'll go to see him.

 

Bhava dasa: Your opinion on this does not align itself with the great maha-bhagavata acaryas in our sampradaya. Their opinions is that the distribution of this great literature and the public chanting of the Holy Names is the yajna of the present age, and leads to the highest perfectional stage of love of God—Krsna prema. "But just service"?

 

YogKriya: No I can't align with them. You are trying to align the whole Vedic culture according to one sampradaya and its view point / agenda.. How is this possible?

Yagna? What happened to the original yagna and Vedic culture / Sanatana Dharma? Of course, chanting holy names is good too...

 

Hare Krishna Discussions spilling all over:

Bhava Dasa: Yes, they could be, but since they are posted here, why should we not be allowed to discuss them? After all…you are. Aside from that, you enter into those forums and try to impose your viewpoints there. Why should we remain silent while you continue on with this distortion of Gaudiya siddhanta?

 

 

YogKriya: No. I have been banned from Hare Krishna forums. Anybody is, when they fail to agree with your particular philosophy line and are considrerd rude and banned. Even if you try to have a normal healthy discussion. Last time somebody wasn't able to prove a point to me, so the moderator banned me. lol So the Hare Krishna viewpoints are only "imposed" here! And it is made sure by the people watching over it. The Gaudiya Siddhanta is distorting everything else here...

 

Yog kriya: The forums are marked differently, but all of them seems to be Hare Krishna Forums. lol.

 

Bhava dasa: Hare Krsna

 

Yog kriya:Jai Gurudev!!

[Guest guest]

 

I have included the following for your consideration:

 

Srila Prabhupada (Letter to: Tamala Krsna -- Los Angeles 21 June, 1970):

 

"[1.] A Spiritual Master is always liberated. In any condition of His life He should not be mistaken as ordinary human being. This position of a Spiritual Master is achieved by three processes. One is called sadhana siddha. That means one who is liberated by executing the regulative principle of devotional service. Another is krpa siddha, one who is liberated by the mercy of Krsna or His devotee. And another is nitya siddha who is never forgetful of Krsna throughout his whole life. These are the three features of the perfection of life.

 

So far Narada Muni is concerned, in His previous life He was a maidservant's son, but by the mercy of the devotees He later on became siddha and next life He appeared as Narada with complete freedom to move anywhere by the grace of the Lord. So even though He was in his previous life a maidservant's son there was no impediment in the achievement of His perfect spiritual life. Similarly any living entity who is conditioned can achieve the perfectional stage of life by the above mentioned processes and the vivid example is Narada Muni.

 

[2.] So I do not know why you have asked about my previous life. Whether I was subjected to the laws of material nature? So, even though accepting that I was subjected to the laws of material nature, does it hamper in my becoming Spiritual Master? What is your opinion? From the life of Narada Muni it is distinct that although He was a conditioned soul in His previous life, there was no impediment of His becoming the Spiritual Master. This law is applicable not only to the Spiritual Master, but to every living entity.

 

There are thousands of examples explained in our books that the conditioned soul is never affected with the material body. It is said in the Vedas asamga ayam purusa which means the living entity is always unaffected with matter. Another example is given that the reflection of the moon on water appears to be moving, but actually the moon is not moving, it is fixed up. So any living entity is like that. His reflection on the material body appears to be changing, but the spirit soul is fixed up, therefore this movement is called illusion.

 

Liberation means liberation from this changing condition.

 

So far I am concerned,[3.] I cannot say what I was in my previous life, but one great astrologer calculated that I was previously a physician and my life was sinless. Besides that, to corroborate the statement of Bhagavad-gita "sucinam srimatam gehe yogabhrasta samyayate'' which means an unfinished yogi takes birth in rich family or born of a suci or pious father. By the grace of Krsna I got these two opportunities in the present life to be born of a pious father and brought up in one of the richest, aristocratic families of Calcutta (Kasinath Mullick). The Radha Krsna Deity in this family called me to meet Him, and therefore last time when I was in Calcutta, I stayed in that temple along with my American disciples. Although I had immense opportunities to indulge in the four principles of sinful life because I was connected with a very aristocratic family, Krsna always saved me, and throughout my whole life I do not know what is illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating or gambling. [4.] So far my present life is concerned, I do not remember any part of my life when I was forgetful of Krsna."

 

Thanks, Bhava dasa. These quotes were certainly helpful in answering my question.

[Bhava dasa]

There are obvious differences in our realizations and philosophical viewpoints. Nevertheless, for the sake of constructive discussions, let’s try to make it a little more respectful and friendly.

 

 

Yogkriya: Where is the uttama-adhikari guru?? Any names? I'd like to have the fortune of meeting him.

 

There are a number…Srila Prabhupada is one. If you are talking about one who is still present (in vapuh), that would have to be determined.

 

 

Bhava das: No. This interpretation of yours is not correct.

 

Yogkriya: So You are trying to imply that a regular gbc and Narada Muni are at the same level?

 

No, I’m not implying that at all.

 

I was responding to your statement, “Again the relevance of Narada Muni and a "Spiritual Master" as a regular Iskcon acharya seems to be on a same level.” By this statement it appeared that you were referring back to Hari Kesh. However, if you want to broaden it to include all the GBC, that’s your prerogative. My response is the same. However, by following in the footsteps of Narada Muni, they (or any one of us) can reach the same spiritual destination.

 

Srila Prabhupada was specifically giving the example of Narada Muni. Such a Vaisnava guru is “always liberated”. He is situated on the eternal platform of Vaikuntha.

 

According to Gaudiya Vaisnava siddhanta, Even if one is from the category of kanistha or madhyama, he can be accepted as guru. However, his conclusions and statements must properly align with the sastras and previous acaryas. If not, he should be rejected as guru. Also, if he accepts the responsibility of too many disciples, but is not mature enough, he runs the risk of falldown.

 

In addition, the sadhaka should be aware that he can only advance as far as the adhikari of his guru. Even if his guru is in good standing, and properly situated, the disciple needs the siksa of gurus who are more advanced. Therefore, one may accept diksa from any of the categories, but to advance to the highest level, he must take the guidance and blessings from higher authorities. If that guidance is not available through a living guru, then by associating through hearing from the Uttama adhikari guru one can still make advancement, although it may be slower.

 

 

Bhava dasa: Your opinion on this does not align itself with the great maha-bhagavata acaryas in our sampradaya. Their opinions is that the distribution of this great literature and the public chanting of the Holy Names is the yajna of the present age, and leads to the highest perfectional stage of love of God—Krsna prema. "But just service"?

 

YogKriya: No I can't align with them. You are trying to align the whole Vedic culture according to one sampradaya and its view point / agenda.. How is this possible?

Yagna? What happened to the original yagna and Vedic culture / Sanatana Dharma? Of course, chanting holy names is good too...

 

You stated that, “Distributing books can be service but not a Vedic Sadhna leading to a Siddhi.” This appears to be your opinion, and I was pointing out that the acaryas (at least in our line) have stated otherwise. If what you are saying is from the Vedas, please provide evidence, and let’s discuss it further.

 

Hare Krsna