Srila Prabhupada on unemployment

[suchandra]

The current figures about unemployment in the European Union are 19 Million people without a job - getting paid to survive by the governments who take the money from the tax pot.

Now I just listened to a morning walk where Prabhupada says something clarifying:

 

Prabhupada: In Bhagavad-gita it is recommended that instead of keeping yourself lazy without working, better to steal. Better to steal.

 

Disciple: How is that?

 

Prabhupada: Stealing is bad work. It is also working, but bad work. So Krishna recommends that instead of keeping yourself lazy, better do bad work.

 

Disciple: "Action is better than inaction."

 

Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Disciple: A man cannot even keep his own body in shape.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. So stealing is still better than keeping oneself lazy.

 

 

Actually Srila Prabhupada is saying here that Krishna says this in Bhagavad-gita.

Since ISKCON stopped preaching in European countries, Kali-yuga is advancing rapidely.

The demoniac European governments made laws that killed Millions of work stations and purposefully lead the nations into huge indebtedness so they can "sell" valuable government properties to their family members and tell the people they have to do this privatization of government properties in order to decrease the country's indebtedness.

So in fact they have to be informed what Krishna says about demoniac governments who keep their people unemployed and thus the terrible future karmas in hell of present day politicians will become even more intensely multiplied. And this planet will gradually become a place for vedic farms, cows and Vaishnavas.

[theist]

Full employment is desireable because it keeps all memebers of society in a healthy and productive condition. The government should employ those unemployed in various projects for the benefit of society in general as well as for the individuals welfare. But the capitalists would rather have 5% permanetly unemployed so they can have quick access to cheaper labor which keeps the capitalist society more fluid and dynamic. For the benefit of those on top.

 

Spiritual communism is the only answer. Not communism but SPIRITUAL communism. One owner, Krsna. All properties are to be used with this in mind and according to His design.

 

A great book to read is Small Is Beautiful, Economics As If People Mattered, by E.F. Schumacher. Schumacher was a Buddhist as well as an economist so his work still needs to be Krsnaized.

[suchandra]

 

Full employment is desireable because it keeps all members of society in a healthy and productive condition. The government should employ those unemployed in various projects for the benefit of society in general as well as for the individuals welfare. But the capitalists would rather have 5% permanetly unemployed so they can have quick access to cheaper labor which keeps the capitalist society more fluid and dynamic. For the benefit of those on top.

 

Spiritual communism is the only answer. Not communism but SPIRITUAL communism. One owner, Krsna. All properties are to be used with this in mind and according to His design.

 

A great book to read is Small Is Beautiful, Economics As If People Mattered, by E.F. Schumacher. Schumacher was a Buddhist as well as an economist so his work still needs to be Krsnaized.

 

They actually dont want cheap labour in European countries, opposite is true, they immediately close down anything and re-open in China/Asia.

Next is they enforce crazy laws which make it impossible to survive with "Small is Beautiful", like a vedic farm which aspires for self-sufficiency - all over Europe closed, shutdown. Now they say, well we're karmis we do like that, therefore karma cant be that heavy for us. However, when informed about Krishna's instruction and they still dont change, they are finished for ever.

[theist]

They want cheap labor but the cheapest labor is in China and Asia. It is very difficult to live a simple life these days.

[Guest guest]

Vrindaban, March 15, 1974

 

Prabhupada: Then whatever field is not being worked, we occupy them, and begin to work. And invite all the unemployed, “Come and join us. We shall give you food, shelter, everything.” . . .This is Krishna consciousness. (break) . . .politician, Balavanta? He's not here. So let him preach that “We shall, if you take our Krishna consciousness movement, there will be no unemployment.” He can at least give this manifesto to the..., “There will be no more unemployment.” People will be very nice, very glad to hear. Now this machine, this machine nonsense means unemployment. One machine will work for hundred men. So hundred men becomes unemployed, and one technician, he gets all the salaries. To work on the computer, corn...

Devotee: Computer, yes.

Prabhupada: Machine. And he's very expert. He'll take three thousand dollars. And others will be unemployed. This is going on. And they are thinking:

“Advancement of civilization.” Advancement of civilization means “Exploit others and you become happy.” This is advancement of civilization. “Others may die for such, out of starvation, and one man takes all the money and spends it for wine and women and motor car.” That's all. This is advancement of civilization. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. This is Vedic civilization. “Let everyone be happy.” That is Vedic civilization. And the demonic civilization, they’re: “Let everyone suffer; I become happy. That's all.”... Practically attract. Practically attract. That is the Hare Krishna movement will practically attract the people. If the world affairs are adjusted according to our Krishna conscious plan, there will be no difficulty for all the nations, all the countries. They will be happy. So we have to educate people gradually. And by our example, living example, we'll have to attract.

 

 

You say we must have a gosala trust, that is our real purpose: krsi-goraksya-vanijyam vaisya karma svabhava-jam [bg. 18.44]. Where there is agriculture there must be cows. That is our mission: Cow protection and agriculture and if there is excess, trade. This is a no-profit scheme. For the agriculture we want to produce our own food and we want to keep cows for our own milk. The whole idea is that we are ISKCON, a community to be independent from outside help. This farm project is especially for the devotees to grow their own food. Cotton also, to make their own clothes. And keeping cows for milk and fatty products.

[Guest guest]

Is Srila Prabupada a politician or a religious GURU?Stealing is better than Inaction what kinda teaching is that,so Duryodana is better than someone who commits neither sin nor great deeds?

[Guest guest]

"Is Srila Prabupada a politician or a religious GURU?Stealing is better than Inaction what kinda teaching is that,so Duryodana is better than someone who commits neither sin nor great deeds?"

 

Srila Prabhupada understood the nature of all material roles in society. From Politician to "Religionist" to thief.

 

The rest of that conversation's context is not handy.

 

Srila Prabhupada never recommended any of his disciples steal.

 

He wanted them to be honest and upfront in their dealings, and to stratify the Iskcon society according to the pious categories of Intellectual priestly class, Noble Administrator class, Efficient Merchant/Agriculturist class, and the class of honest assistants who could take direction and serve the other classes.

 

If that is actually a real conversation and not something someone made up to draw question to Srila Prabhupada's morality, then it can be explained like this.

 

In today's day and age, the stark truth is that all societies are corrupt. The american society started out with some ideal despite the breaking of so many standards, at least there were some respect for individual rights and orderly behavior.

 

But the Cesars and King George's of the world and their minions quickly infiltrated, and now the honest person sees that the Bankers and their corporate military industrial complex rule the world. Every one is ignorant of how to live in harmony with nature on all levels, and there is perverted exploitation of material nature without vedic regulation. In other words, we are all stealing.

 

A lazy person could certainly be tempted to use their mind to try to manipulate others to do their stealing for them. Thus directly enslaving others and deepening their already bad karma.

 

Better that they get up and consciously steal for their share. This is actually less damaging karmically. And they will probably get caught and be forced into repentance sooner. To consider their miserable position honestly, and be primed with humility and more able to receive grace.

 

Through Srila Prabhupada no one is safe! He had the whole world in his crosshairs. As soon as all those who misrepresent him are fully revealed and brought to justice, his truthsayers will inundate the world unabated with his mercy and wisdom.

 

Jaya Prabhupada

[suchandra]

Thanks Robin Hood, you actually made some good points! Here's the whole text, so it can be seen in context.

 

Disciple: Now the incentive in modern society to become educated or to become engineer is money. What is the incentive in Vedic culture?

 

Prabhupada: There is no need of money. The brahmana teaches everything free of charge. There is no question of money. Anyone can take education as a brahmana or a kshatriya, as a vaishya. Vaishya doesn't require any education. Kshatriyas require little. Brahmanas require. But that is free. Just find out a brahmana guru and he will give you free education. That's all. This is society. At the present moment, as soon as one wants to be educated, he requires money. But in the Vedic society there is no question of money. Education free.

 

Disciple: So the incentive is the happiness in society?

 

Prabhupada: Yes, that is... Everyone is hankering after: "Where is happiness?" This will be the happiness. When people will be peaceful, happy in their living condition, that will bring happiness, not by imagining that "If I have got a skyscraper building, I will be happy," and then jump over and commit suicide. That is going on. He is thinking that "If I have a skyscraper building, I will be happy," and when he is frustrated, he jumps down. That is going on. This is happiness. That means all rascals. They do not know what is happiness. Therefore everyone requires guidance from Krishna. That is Krishna consciousness. Now you were saying that there is high rate of suicide here?

 

Disciple: Yes.

 

Prabhupada: Why? This is the country possessing gold mine, and why they are...? And you said that it is difficult to become poor here.

 

Disciple: Yes. You have to try hard to become poor man here.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. And still there is suicide. Why? Every man is rich man, and why he is committing suicide? Hm? Can you reply?

 

Disciple: They lack central happiness?

 

Prabhupada: Yes. There is no happiness. [pause] Nobody can remain lazy, because he will be hungry. So how he will remain lazy? He'll have to go somewhere, begging food, and he'll say, "First of all work. Then get your food." He'll work. So there is no question of remaining lazy. Just like the hippies. They do not work, but when they do not get food from anywhere, they go and work. Is it not? So he will be obliged to work.

 

Disciple: That is the incentive, then.

 

Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Disciple: Some of them steal. Instead of working, they steal their food.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Steal... When he is arrested, then he has to work in the prison. That's all.

 

Disciple: Chopping rocks.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise whipping. In Bhagavad-gita it is recommended that instead of keeping yourself lazy without working, better to steal. Better to steal.

 

Disciple: How is that?

 

Prabhupada: That is there. Stealing is bad work, bad work. It is also working, but bad work. So Krishna recommends that instead of keeping yourself lazy, better do bad work.

 

Disciple: "Action is better than inaction."

 

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Yes.

 

Disciple: A man cannot even keep his own body in shape.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. So stealing is still better than keeping oneself lazy.

 

Disciple: "It is better to perform one's duty, even though it may be imperfect, than to perform another's duty"?

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.

 

Disciple: I've always wondered... The food will be taken care of in a perfect varnashrama society; government is taken care of...

 

Prabhupada: Government means you, like rascal fools like you. So how you will take care?

 

Disciple: When it is properly set up.

 

Prabhupada: First of all you see the government, what is government?

Government means a pack of rascals and fools. That's all. This is modern government. All these thieves and rogues are voted to be government men. So how you expect good government? It is not possible. "People's government." All people are rascals. That means government rascal. People's government.

 

Disciple: How would the other necessities of life be taken care of, like medical things? If actually they have no knowledge, and they have to require to build these gigantic hospitals...

 

Prabhupada: The brahmanas, the brahmanas will give you medical help. Ayur-Veda. They will read Ayur-Veda. They will give help.

 

Disciple: So the Ayur-Veda possibly can work nowadays.

 

Prabhupada: Why not?

 

Disciple: Some people were telling me that the herbs had lost all their effectiveness in the Kali-yuga.

 

Prabhupada: Then die. [laughter] Do you mean to say this modern medical treatment is guarantee for your living?

 

Disciple: No.

 

Prabhupada: Then? That is also not guarantee. If you see the herbs and plants are no more effective, then if there is no guarantee in your modern medical, there is no guarantee. So why should you spend so much money? As soon as I go to a doctor, immediately twenty dollars. As soon as go to purchase some drugs, immediately twenty. If I have no money... And still that is not guarantee, so why shall I spend so much money?

 

Disciple: So actually this money doesn't even exist in Vedic society—money?

 

Prabhupada: Money is not required. You require things. Just like instead of money, you are getting papers. Money means gold. Where is gold? You are cheated. Money means gold. So instead of possessing gold, you are possessing some paper, written there, "hundred dollars." And you are such a fool, you are satisfied. You are being cheated. Bank's check and currency notes, you keep it in your..., "Oh, here is my money." Is that money? Just see.

 

Disciple: They only do that to make it easier for them, because they've got so much money that they can't carry it...

 

Prabhupada: That's all right, but actually it is not money. You are befooled. You are such a fool that you accept a piece of paper as money. Therefore I say you are rascal. That is my business. If I say "Government, give me gold," and government has passed law, "No, you cannot possess gold," that means cheating. How I shall keep gold, that is my business. First of all you give me gold. It is due to me. But you are giving me paper. That means cheating is begun from you.

 

Disciple: How will the government decide what my gold is and what his gold is? How does the gold get distributed?

 

Prabhupada: Gold coins. Formerly there was gold coins. We have seen in our childhood gold coins, silver coins. There was no paper.

Disciple: But you have to do something to get it.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. I will have to do something. That is another thing. But why you are cheating me? Instead of gold, you are giving me paper. Formerly... You have seen in Krishna book that one fruit man came, and Krishna was taking some grain. It was falling down. So that was the... A fruit man come, and you give him a packet of grain. Then whatever exchange is possible, the fruit man gives you fruit. That's all.

 

Disciple: That is called bartering.

 

Prabhupada: Bartering. So there is no need of money. Similarly, you go to another shop. You get. So you produce your food, and in exchange, in barter, you get all things, other things. Somebody is producing something, somebody is producing something. But it can be done. Suppose I am a blacksmith. You want some work from me. So you say that "I'll make this instrument for me." So I say, "You give me one kg paddy." So you give me one kg, I prepare you, so your necessity is fulfilled. Now I have got so much paddy. Now, I may go to purchase something else because I am blacksmith, so grains will be used for my eating, and for, say for ghee, I take the same grain somewhere. So where is the money need of?

 

Disciple: It's very difficult to cheat in that system. It's very difficult to cheat.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. There is no cheating. Everyone is simply simple, honest. And here the government begins cheating. He is engaging you to hard work day and night and paying you a piece of paper, where it is written "one hundred dollars." That's all. This is your society, cheating and cheater. That's all.

 

Disciple: People have a hard time understanding that point, because with a hundred dollar note you can buy things.

 

Prabhupada: Therefore I say you are all rascals. You do not know. If I say, the government may arrest me that I am infusing people in a different way. But that is the fact.

 

Disciple: So a government's duty would be to abolish this false standard of money, and then automatically...

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Government's only duty is that government gives me land and I pay tax: "Whatever I produce, take one fourth." Finish. All taxes. If I don't produce, there is no tax. That's all. That is the business between the government and the public. That's all.

 

Disciple: If the public are giving like one quarter of a perishable item, what does the government do with that? Let's say they were growing some vegetables, so they give one quarter of that to the government. What would the government do with that? They've got so many tons of vegetables.

 

Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Disciple: And everybody is taken care of, because they are growing it.

 

Prabhupada: After all, vegetable will be eaten by somebody. So let government distribute there. Vegetable, grains, fruits, milk, ghee, yogurt, natural produce—they will be used by somebody. The government may store and distribute, those who are in need. That's all.

 

Disciple: Maybe somebody is only producing gold or gold plates, or somebody is producing something that isn't food. So he would give that to the government.

 

Prabhupada: Well, gold plates, that is not a necessary thing. He can eat on plantain leaf, natural production. That is luxury. So when people live simple life, the luxuries will no more be required.

 

Disciple: Let's say the government is building some wells or some roads. They could feed the people who are doing that, shudras who are doing that.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. sudras, that "You dig this well and take your food." That's all. Work will go on. At the present moment I require one scissor. I can go to the blacksmith and pay him some grain. He will give me. Now they are producing, Krupp Company in Germany, millions of razor, millions of scissors. Now they will have to find market, where to sell. And as soon as goes to sell in India, the British government—"No, no. You cannot sell." Then he becomes angry: "Oh, all right." He declares war.

 

Disciple: So complex.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. This is going on. "These Britishers do not allow me to go there? All right, kill them." That was the Hitler policy and Kaiser's policy, to kill British empire. They did it. They were successful. But they were also killed. This is going on, unnecessary. Why you produce so much razor and scissor? And then find out market, and when there is competition, there is anger, there is enviousness, there is fight, one after another, one after another. Where is peace? Why do you produce so many unnecessarily? Why do you produce so many cars, when there is scarcity of power, and fight with Arabians? Anartha. Therefore it is called anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopasamam sakshad bhakti-yogam adhokshaje [srimad-Bhagavatam 1.7.6]. As soon as people will be devotee, they will not require unnecessary things. They will be satisfied, simply bare necessities of life. That is peaceful condition. You create unnecessary needs of life, and then there is competition, there is hellish life, the factory, and then the factory man requires wine to forget his hard labor, so on, so on. Then he becomes thief. He becomes rogue. This is your society. How you can expect peace?

 

Disciple: The only solution is Krishna consciousness.

 

Prabhupada: That's it, only solution.

 

Disciple: It also seems like the only government that would work would be the Vedic government. Varnashrama-dharma is the only thing that will work.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Krishna conscious government means Vedic government.

 

Disciple: We have histories that for millions of years such governments were working successfully. Now, for a few thousand years, they squabble, this type of government, that type of government.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. No, first of all, the government is cheating. He is giving me paper in the name of money, and forcing me to accept it.

 

Disciple: That seems to be the root cause of...

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Government is taking labor from you. You ask, "If you pay me three hundred dollars, then I shall work.All right, I shall give you. Work." Then what is that three hundred? I print and pay you, and you rascal, you accept it, three hundred dollars. What is that three hundred dollars for government? Printing press. And you are so rascal, "Yes, I have got now three hundred dollars." This is going on. This is artificial inflation. Why there is inflation? Now you have got three hundred dollars without any hard labor. And when you go to purchase—I haven't got three hundred dollars; you have got—"All right, I shall pay this price." So price is increased because the seller will see: "Who pays me large price?" So you have got unnecessary money. You offer him large price. So I am poor man; I could not purchase. This is going on.

 

Disciple: There was once a few plots exposed, how some governments were ruined because foreign governments were printing up money just like their money, and shipping it in.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. I have seen it. I have seen it during last wartime. One Chinese man was coming to one of my friends, my business friend. So he would give, immediately coming, a bunch of notes, maybe ten thousand.

 

Disciple: Indian notes?

 

Prabhupada: Yes. And a list of goods. He was his purchasing agent. So that bunch of notes was printed in China. You see? And he brings it and gives to a merchant here, and he gives him real goods, and he takes it out. This is inflation.

Disciple: Could he spend that money?

 

Prabhupada: Yes. I print ten thousand dollars' worth currency note, and I give you, and I take you, actual goods from you, anywhere.

 

Disciple: The government is doing that all the time. They take contracts from people.

 

Prabhupada: Yes. That is going on. Therefore price is increasing daily. Formerly British government, in the beginning, to prove their honesty, as soon as you go to the currency for changing, they will offer you, "You want coins or paper currency?" So if you think that paper currency will be convenient, you can take. Otherwise, if you want coins, they will pay you.

 

Disciple: Gold coins.

 

Prabhupada: Yes, gold, silver, whatever you want. That was the... Now this is stopped. You can not ask now gold coins and silver coins. Whatever government will give you, you have to accept. Where is honesty?

 

Disciple: Srila Prabhupada, in South Africa they have a coin called the Krugerrand. And one rand is worth one hundred cents, one rand of paper money. But one rand gold is worth about seventy-eight rand.

 

Prabhupada: Just see.

 

Disciple: It's constantly going up and down, the price. Hundred and eight.

 

Prabhupada: Everything mismanaged, cheating.

 

Disciple: So until the top man is Krishna conscious, this cheating will basically continue.

 

Prabhupada: Who is the top man? Everyone is top man. Instead of one king, now you have got one hundred kings. The minister, the secretaries, the under-secretaries, the deputy minister, and so on, so on, so on. So there was only one unfortunate king. Now you have got three dozen kings, and you have to maintain them like kings. This is going on.

 

Disciple: They can pay them with their phony money.

 

Prabhupada: And they are seeking this post because they know that without doing anything, money will come. That's all. And as soon as you approach some minister, he will ask you, "All right, give me an application." And after six months' reminding, he will say, "No, it is not possible."

Disciple: Yes. Because so many people have to apply for any one post. That's a fact. Then he will put his son there.

 

Prabhupada: All rogues and thieves.

 

Disciple: So actually it is not possible to change the...

 

Prabhupada: Change—if they become Krishna conscious.

 

Disciple: But the system itself is defective. How can...

 

Prabhupada: No, the defective will be correct when you become Krishna conscious. Just like in your past life you had so many defects. Now it is corrected. That is practical.

 

Disciple: Let's say somebody is a minister...

 

Prabhupada: Anybody.

 

Disciple: ...but his occupation is cheating.

 

Prabhupada: That's all right. Let him become Krishna conscious. He will stop this cheating business.

 

Disciple: But he has to stop.

 

Disciple: Yes. Rajarishi [saintly king].

 

Prabhupada: Yes. He has to stop. It will be stopped as soon as he becomes a devotee.

Disciple: So then gradually it will become the varnashrama, with the one central head.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Disciple: So we don't try to make a revolutionary system.

Prabhupada: This is revolution.

Disciple: We try to just make them Krishna conscious, then it's automatic revolution.

Prabhupada: Yes. Peaceful revolution. Other revolution will not stand. [break] ...perfect philosophy.

Disciple: Your method is also the perfect method, the books in the colleges and libraries, educated people and... Wonderful. Actually, you have set everything up to do this.

Prabhupada: Yes. Everything is spoken by Krishna. I am simply putting them for modern man's understanding. That's all.

Disciple: Yes.

Prabhupada: Because they cannot understand, they think, "Dogmatic." It is not dogmatic. Most scientific.

Disciple: But they're all dull-brained. Satisfied with a few scraps, work like dogs.

Prabhupada: The kshatriyas have to manage, and the vaishyas will produce, and brahmana will give the brain. Then the society will be peace... And at the present moment these shudras, they are, by artificial votes, they are becoming the brain of the society. How it can be happy? The rascals, they are voted to the legislative assembly, and they are passing every day law which is never perfect. This is going on.

Disciple: Stopgap measures.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Disciple: They create problem, then they try to solve it.

Prabhupada: That's it.

-----

[realist31]

 

"Is Srila Prabupada a politician or a religious GURU?Stealing is better than Inaction what kinda teaching is that,so Duryodana is better than someone who commits neither sin nor great deeds?"

 

Srila Prabhupada understood the nature of all material roles in society. From Politician to "Religionist" to thief.

 

The rest of that conversation's context is not handy.

 

Srila Prabhupada never recommended any of his disciples steal.

 

He wanted them to be honest and upfront in their dealings, and to stratify the Iskcon society according to the pious categories of Intellectual priestly class, Noble Administrator class, Efficient Merchant/Agriculturist class, and the class of honest assistants who could take direction and serve the other classes.

 

If that is actually a real conversation and not something someone made up to draw question to Srila Prabhupada's morality, then it can be explained like this.

 

In today's day and age, the stark truth is that all societies are corrupt. The american society started out with some ideal despite the breaking of so many standards, at least there were some respect for individual rights and orderly behavior.

 

But the Cesars and King George's of the world and their minions quickly infiltrated, and now the honest person sees that the Bankers and their corporate military industrial complex rule the world. Every one is ignorant of how to live in harmony with nature on all levels, and there is perverted exploitation of material nature without vedic regulation. In other words, we are all stealing.

 

A lazy person could certainly be tempted to use their mind to try to manipulate others to do their stealing for them. Thus directly enslaving others and deepening their already bad karma.

 

Better that they get up and consciously steal for their share. This is actually less damaging karmically. And they will probably get caught and be forced into repentance sooner. To consider their miserable position honestly, and be primed with humility and more able to receive grace.

 

Through Srila Prabhupada no one is safe! He had the whole world in his crosshairs. As soon as all those who misrepresent him are fully revealed and brought to justice, his truthsayers will inundate the world unabated with his mercy and wisdom.

 

Jaya Prabhupada

 

So he did ask people to steal as in his dictionary it is better to steal than have others to steal..

Prabupada had the whole world ih his crosshairs and no one is safe?So he is GOD?He looks like a old poor man who couldnt make a succesful family or materialistic life so preaches the world his sour grapes theory,he is the one who is asking others to steal and carries bad Karma.

[Guest guest]

 

He looks like a old poor man who couldnt make a succesful family or materialistic life so preaches the world his sour grapes theory,he is the one who is asking others to steal and carries bad Karma.

 

You obviously know nothing about Prabhupada's life. He was a successful businessman and family man (married with children), before he became a Swami.

 

The Message he preached was how to return back Home to Godhead. He did not preach sour grapes, but the good news, that one does not have to stay in this world of suffering, lifetime after lifetime - but can transcend this world, and ascend to the eternal spiritual world of Goloka to live with Radha-Krishna in bliss and devotion forever.

[Kulapavana]

 

They want cheap labor but the cheapest labor is in China and Asia. It is very difficult to live a simple life these days.

 

the world is currently ruled by the vaishyas, who do not care if they destroy everything as long as they make money. "Free trade" is only good for the traders (vaishyas) - it is not good for the producers or the consumers. the word is run by the greed of vaishyas - the money bags...

 

it is funny when devotees in our movement think they can save the world, as they can't seem to keep their own affairs in order...

 

Prabhupada had very ambitious plans but that is the easy part. It will take a tremendous effort just to keep his organization alive 10-20 years from now, let alone "help the world" to get better.

 

Currently our own movement lacks both brains and vision to transform Prabhupada's dreams into reality. Maybe some day we will have a real leader who will take Prabhupada's concepts further...

[theist]

Perhaps what is needed most is real followers. "Simple living and high thinking" is what is needed in our own lifes. We need to save ourselves first.

 

You are right. The administrators (ksyatriyas in the general sense) are influenced by the vaishyas instead of the brahmanas or knowers of Brahman. It is a society running around madly without a head causing havoc.

[Kripamoya]

There was no reference on that so-called quote from Srila Prabhupada.

 

There is no way for anyone who is not familiar with it to view it themselves in the full context of the conversation.

 

The so-called disciple in the quote has no name attached either.

 

There is no date, location or any identifiable information attached to the quote.

 

.

[theist]

Suchandra please tell us which morning walk is being referrenced.

[suchandra]

 

There was no reference on that so-called quote from Srila Prabhupada.

 

There is no way for anyone who is not familiar with it to view it themselves in the full context of the conversation.

 

The so-called disciple in the quote has no name attached either.

 

There is no date, location or any identifiable information attached to the quote.

 

 

 

It is an excerpt from morning walk conversation with disciples, Johannesburg, October 16, 1975.

Actually I wanted to know from which verse of Bhagavad-gita Srila Prabhupada derives the "stealing is better than unemployement"?

 

Srila Prabhupada used to write letters to important people like the pope, asking them to follow Krishna's instructions. If they refused the reactions of their sinful example as leaders of society became real heavy, the influence of the demons crumbled and the Sankirtan movement could expand fast.

Did the devotees actually write letters to G.Bush/Blair/Putin?

[Guest guest]

Suchandra,

 

I think he is referring to the principle of Karma Yoga from chapter 5 "action in Krsna consciousness"

 

When he says,

 

"Stealing is bad work, bad work. It is also working, but bad work. So Krishna recommends that instead of keeping yourself lazy, better do bad work."

 

"instead of keeping yourself lazy, better do bad work."

 

He seems to be promoting any action even stealing as opposed to the false renunciation of the Mayavadi.

 

Interesting.

 

But I could not find an actually quote where he talks about stealing, and I just read that chapter last week. So I would like to think I'd remember.

[Kripamoya]

 

It is an excerpt from morning walk conversation with disciples, Johannesburg, October 16, 1975.

Actually I wanted to know from which verse of Bhagavad-gita Srila Prabhupada derives the "stealing is better than unemployement"?

 

Srila Prabhupada used to write letters to important people like the pope, asking them to follow Krishna's instructions. If they refused the reactions of their sinful example as leaders of society became real heavy, the influence of the demons crumbled and the Sankirtan movement could expand fast.

Did the devotees actually write letters to G.Bush/Blair/Putin?

 

Well, since the Dutch stole south Africa from the Africans, maybe Srila Prabhupada is reflecting upon the situation there where whitey has come in and subjugated the Africans with capitalism and materialism.

 

If the Dutch had not done that, then maybe South Africa would not have been as fertile a preaching ground as it was after they stole it from the Africans?

[suchandra]

 

Suchandra,

 

I think he is referring to the principle of Karma Yoga from chapter 5 "action in Krsna consciousness"

 

When he says,

 

"Stealing is bad work, bad work. It is also working, but bad work. So Krishna recommends that instead of keeping yourself lazy, better do bad work."

 

"instead of keeping yourself lazy, better do bad work."

 

He seems to be promoting any action even stealing as opposed to the false renunciation of the Mayavadi.

 

Interesting.

 

But I could not find an actually quote where he talks about stealing, and I just read that chapter last week. So I would like to think I'd remember.

 

Here Krishna says, one has to work, otherwise one cant maintain one's body. In other words, without working one dies. And that what jobless people look like - dead, at least psychologically.

 

Bhagavad-gita 3.8

 

"Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not working. One cannot even maintain one's physical body without work."

[Kulapavana]

what exactly do you mean by "unemployment"? if you are out of work because the factory you worked in for 30 years closed down due to cheap imports from China, are you being lazy? Nonsense! If you are looking for work living off unemployment insurance that is not living off charity, as this insurance is part of your compensation for previous work. if you think it is better to steal in such situation, you are an idiot.

 

as to whether stealing is better than being lazy and relying on handouts. is accepting charity or begging generating bad karma? because stealing certainly does.

 

maybe from the point of view of developing consciousness stealing is better than laziness, as stealing may be considered action in passion while laziness is action in ignorance.

[suchandra]

 

what exactly do you mean by "unemployment"? if you are out of work because the factory you worked in for 30 years closed down due to cheap imports from China, are you being lazy? Nonsense! If you are looking for work living off unemployment insurance that is not living off charity, as this insurance is part of your compensation for previous work. if you think it is better to steal in such situation, you are an idiot.

 

as to whether stealing is better than being lazy and relying on handouts. is accepting charity or begging generating bad karma? because stealing certainly does.

 

maybe from the point of view of developing consciousness stealing is better than laziness, as stealing may be considered action in passion while laziness is action in ignorance.

 

You're totally right this topic doesnt concern Vaishnavas, but since devotees are also preaching you can point out that it is exactly true what is projected in the Vedas about this age, demoniac governments are killing their own people by enforcing laws which prevent people to work. You might say well, these karmis perform karma, work or no work, whats the difference?

Now the statistic says in Europian Union, of those 19 Mio unemployed people, about 60.000 per year commit suizide because they dont see any future, feel totally depressed. You might argue, well material bodies, the soul lives eternal, but thats not the attitude of a preacher. As preachers we have to explain how people are being cheated by atheistic demons/governments and spoil this valuable form of human live without getting the mercy of Lord Caitanya's Samkirtan Mission.

 

 

They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other than lust.

 

 

The demoniac person thinks: "So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him, and my other enemies will also be killed. I am the lord of everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice." In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance.

 

 

 

Thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of illusions, they become too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and fall down into hell.