Guest guest Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 in the maha-mantra, is chanting Hare a cry to Radha? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Therefore Caitanya MahAprabhu has recommended, <center> harer nAma harer nAma harer nAmaiva kevalam kalau nAsty eva nAsty eva nAsty eva gatir anyathA [Adi 17.21]</center> So our request is... Everyone who is present here... Today is RAdhASTamI. So pray to RAdhArANI. And She is hare, harA. This hare, this word, is RAdhArANI. HarA, RAdhArANI. RAdhA or harA the same thing. So Hare KRSNa. So we are praying to RAdhArANI, "My Mother, RAdhArANI, and KRSNa." Hare KRSNa. "O KRSNa, O the Lord." Hare KRSNa Hare KRSNa, the same thing, repetition. "O RAdhArANI, O KRSNa.O RAdhA-KRSNa.RAdhe-KRSNa" or "Hare KRSNa," the same thing. Hare KRSNa Hare KRSNa KRSNa KRSNa Hare Hare. Again addressing, "O KRSNa, O KRSNa, O RAdhArANI." Hare RAma. The same thing, again. Hare RAma. RAma is also KRSNa. RAma is RAma, RAma is BalarAma. They are all KRSNa. Hare RAma Hare RAma RAma RAma Hare Hare. So this repetition of addressing RAdhA and KRSNa or Hare KRSNa is to pray, "My dear Lord, the, and the energy, the spiritual energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service." That's all. "I am now embarrassed with this material service. Please engage me in Your service." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Therefore Caitanya MahAprabhu has recommended,<center> harer nAma harer nAma harer nAmaiva kevalam kalau nAsty eva nAsty eva nAsty eva gatir anyathA [Adi 17.21]</center> So our request is... Everyone who is present here... Today is RAdhASTamI. So pray to RAdhArANI. And She is hare, harA. This hare, this word, is RAdhArANI. HarA, RAdhArANI. RAdhA or harA the same thing. So Hare KRSNa. So we are praying to RAdhArANI, "My Mother, RAdhArANI, and KRSNa." Hare KRSNa. "O KRSNa, O the Lord." Hare KRSNa Hare KRSNa, the same thing, repetition. "O RAdhArANI, O KRSNa.O RAdhA-KRSNa.RAdhe-KRSNa" or "Hare KRSNa," the same thing. Hare KRSNa Hare KRSNa KRSNa KRSNa Hare Hare. Again addressing, "O KRSNa, O KRSNa, O RAdhArANI." Hare RAma. The same thing, again. Hare RAma. RAma is also KRSNa. RAma is RAma, RAma is BalarAma. They are all KRSNa. Hare RAma Hare RAma RAma RAma Hare Hare. So this repetition of addressing RAdhA and KRSNa or Hare KRSNa is to pray, "My dear Lord, the, and the energy, the spiritual energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service." That's all. "I am now embarrassed with this material service. Please engage me in Your service." thank you very much, gHari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhavachari Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 It refers to Hari, not "Radha". No matter what others might say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 It refers to Hari, not "Radha". No matter what others might say. Hari = Vishnu. so how do Sri Vaishnavas view the maha-mantra? they do not even see a call to the Divine Mother in it (even as Lakshmi)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 It refers to Hari, not "Radha". No matter what others might say. I was under the impression that Sri Varada Yatiraja Jeeyar didn't like his disciples quarreling with other people on matters of theology. His mood, I believe, is that he likes to see only the good things we can see in someone, and to forget about the other things that are temporary and material. Someone might make a point of attacking Sri Rami Sivan because he is a homosexual but his Gurudeva is always going to be merciful to Rami. In this way, it is better to let others follow their own path and beliefs without interfering in their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 yes, i too think hari originally refers to vishnu/krishna/hari....definetely not radha. however, devotees of radha-krishna may choose to understand it as radha... there is no problem with that.... but technically it is not so..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 when they say harer nama kevalam it refers to krishna or vishnu...always lord's name... further, whether rama refers to balarama or sri ramachandra, still....it does not make any sense to associate radha's name with sri ramachandra or balarama... so hare was technically not meant to refer her. But devotees may think of her, if they like..that is their choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Hari = Vishnu. so how do Sri Vaishnavas view the maha-mantra? they do not even see a call to the Divine Mother in it (even as Lakshmi)? yes, i think it is only Krishna/Vishnu specifically here inthis particular mantra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 It refers to Hari, not "Radha". No matter what others might say. Krishna or God is not without His energy, just like Vishnu is never without Lakmi, how do you say this does not refer to Sri Radha? If you won't take any Sastric, or Guru. Here is an experiment for you. Chant Hare, Hare, Hare for 2 mins. Just like The Hunter chanted 'Mara, Mara'. When you chant Hare the vocative becomes Radhe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Hi, I think that is so because Krishna himself encompasses all His energies as well.All His energies are a part of Him. Therefore, when we pray to Krishna we automatically pray to everything else. Such has been my understanding. Hare Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 that being said devotees specifically attached to RadhaKrishna may interpret so to their satisfaction. Further, I did that experiment you suggested.... I saw reha reha... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 that being said devotees specifically attached to RadhaKrishna may interpret so to their satisfaction. Further, I did that experiment you suggested.... I saw reha reha... There is no interpretation of any kind. Radha names is mentioned in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, as aradhana, Sukadeva Goswami didn’t mention this name because he would have gone into a trance and would not have been able to complete the Bhagavatam (Sukadeva Goswami is the Son of Srila Vyasadeva- The Original Compiler of the Vedas). Lord Shiva states that Vedya Vyasa may or may not know the Bhagavatam, but His Son Sukadeva knows it for sure. If you read the Bhagavatam (Canto 10). It mentions many pastimes of Krishna, and Radha name is NEVER mentioned 'outright' but in a round about way. Vaishnava's (who know the actual meaning of the Bhagavatam, according to the Puranas etc). Have said Her name is not mentioned because Sukadeva is Originally a parrot (of the Same name) in Goloka Vrindavana (who is very dear to Sri Radha). Originally Suka (meaning parrot) was blessed by Sri Radha, and He spoke the Bhagavatam. People can interpret the meanings of the Vaishnava who preach and speak on the Bhagavatam (and who follow it's precepts according to the disciplic succession) and criticize their so-called interpretations. But it is THEM who have kept alive this succession (of the Bhagavatam). And practically speaking it is them (such as Srila Prabhupada) who have been successful in preaching it all over the World (in it's Original form). The PROOF of the pudding is in the eating. If you need any more proof, then I suppose you don't have enough faith in Vaishnavas. Sastra is fine by itself. But a Sadhu (Vaishnava) is an animated Sastra; hearing from a Sadhu is million times more beneficial then reading Sastra. (As Sukadeva Goswami had done so). I am not very proficient in posting Sastric references, (and people seem to think they are intrepretated). http://www.vedabase.net has the Bhagavatam you can read it their. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Gaudiyas see "Rama" as referring to Radha-Ramana Krishna. Therefore, there is no flaw in associating Hare with Rama. Both hari and harā become hare in the vocative case. Regardless of the original meaning of hare, I do not see why the Gaudiya interpretation of harā would not be justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Radha - meaning of the name: aradhyati krsnah anaya iti radha - one who devoutly worships is Radha - sruti references: Radha is mentioned in Sama Veda and Atharva Veda. Sama Veda contains the etymological derivation of the word 'Radha': radha sabdasya vyutpattih samaveda. Nirupita is the word for Radha in Sama Veda. The word Raadhaa is a combination of four root letters: Ra, aa, Dha, aa, each having its own significance. Ra: rephohi koti janmagham karma bhogam subhasubham (dispels the sins of a million births and liberates one from the consequences of evil deeds) AA: akara garbha basanca, mrtyunca rogam ucchrudet (emancipates one from the cycle of birth and death and terminates diseases and death) Dha: dhakara ayusahan ucchrudet (prevents loss of longevity) AA: akaro bhava bhandhanah ucchrudet (frees one from the earthly bondage) Chandogya Upanisad (of Sama Veda) 8.13.1 states: 'syamac chavalam prapadye, savalac chyamam prapadye, syamac.' 'By the help of black (syama), we shall be introduced to the service of white (savala); by the help of white (savala), we shall be introduced to the service of black (syama).' Here black indicates Krsna and white indicates the fair complected Radha. - smriti and tantra references: SB 10.30.28 - anayaradhitah, "by her the Lord is worshiped"; Brahma-vaivarta, Garuda, Bhavisya, Brahmanda, Brahma-vaivarta, Mahabhagavata (ch. 49), Naradiya, Padma (Adi/Svarga khanda, ch. 7, Patala khanda 2.69-99), Varaha, Vayu (ch. 104), Harivamsa, Narada Pancaratra, Gita Govinda...) 'Radha' has not been mentioned in Mahabharata or even Harivamsa Purana but there is a mention of her name in Uttara and Patala Khanda of Padma Purana and in tantric treatise Pancatantra Samhita. 'Radha', however, finds a detailed analysis in Brahmavaivarta Purana, Part II, Sri Krsnajanma Khanda ('the Krsna birth episode'): krsnasyardhanga sambhuta nathasya sadrsi sati goloka vasina sreyam atra krsnajna adhuna ajoni sambhava devi mula prakrti isvari "The best of Goloka's residents appeared here by Krsna's command. She (Radha) is born of no mother and She (Radha) who is the fundamental Prakrti (the female energy) is a goddess and emerged from the better half of Krsna's being and molded after His image." sri krsnasya tejasardhena sa ca murtimati sati eka murtihi dvidha bhuva bhedo vedanirupita "Radha embodies half the divine effulgence of Sri Krsna. They are both one body divided into two beings - such is the irrefutable decree of the Veda." iyam stri sa puman kimva sa va kanta puman ayam dvirupe tejas tulye rupenanca gunena ca parakramenaca budhya va, jnanen sampadapica purate gamane naiva kintu sa vayasadhika... "In Their looks, in Their radiance, in Their attributes, in Their prowess, in Their wisdom, in Their intelligence and in Their riches, They are so identical to each other that it is difficult to tell Radha from Krsna or Krsna from Radha and that She precedes Krsna and is the older of the two." Ahirbudhnya Samhita explains that in order to create the universe the Supreme God divided himself as sakti and saktiman. Thus the Supreme Being embodied Himself as Purusa (male energy) and Prakrti (female energy). Skanda Purana corroborates the fact that Radhika is a part of the Supreme Soul: atmatu radhika tasya taiva ramanat asau "Radhika is part of thy Supreme Soul (atma) and You dally with her (atma saha ramati iti atmarama). He, therefore, is called Atmarama." Radha, a part and parcel of the same Supreme Soul, is the 'principle of ecstasy'. She is not anybody else's wife, dallying with Krsna in an extramarital situation. She is His Atma. Ekanath Das: The Urdhvamnaya-tantra, also known as Urdhvamnaya-maha-tantra, differs from the Urdhvamnaya-samhita. Reference to the Urdhvamnaya-tantra is supposedly made in the Sadhana-dipika, a book by Narayana-bhatta. I could not find these references. The Urdhvamnayana-tantra is said to deal with various mantras unto Srimati Radharani, astaksara-vidhi (esoteric explanations of the Gopala-mantra) and Gopesvari-vidhana (procedure of initiation into Radha-mantra). It is said that parts of the work are scattered here and there. There doesn't seem to be a complete manuscript. - appearance: in one kalpa she is found in the field/Yamuna by Maharaja Vrsabhanu (similarly as Sitadevi who was found in the wooden box buried in the earth - similar to black Madonnas), in another kalpa she is born from Kirtida's womb (see Raghunatha dasa Gosvami's Vraja-vilasa-stava) - marriage (CC Adi 10.85p. - Jiva G., Brahmanda Purana, Canto 15 - Sri Krsnajanma khanda) - separated from Krsna for 100 years (during His Dvaraka stay) due to Sridama's curse (Brahma-vaivarta Purana): 6.243 O beautiful one, I will go to Mathura and because of Sridama's curse, We will be separated. 6.252 Beloved, during the hundred years We are separated We will meet in Our dreams again and again. 6.253 In My Narayana form I will go to Dvaraka for those hundred years. In that way I will enjoy My pastimes there. - as "Haraa": (Narada-pancaratra 5.5.59) "sri-haraa" listed as one of the names of Srimati Radharani. This is actually a verse from the famous Radha-sahasra-nama-stotra (verse 59): sri-rupa sri-hara sri-da sri-kama sri-svarupini sridamananda-datri ca sridamesvara-vallabha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 well.... first of all..... you are confusgin two issues....worship of radha krishna and this particular mantra. it is all fine to worship radha-krishna i never questioned all that.So it was not needed to prove to me that she is an authentic deity. I agree there.... and besides worship is a matter of faith. Lord Krishna can be worshipped with Radha, with Rukmini, Satya, also alone, with Subhadra and with Meerabai.... also may be hara is a name of radha.....(no problem with that) similarly hara is also a name of shiva and lakshmi as well But regarding this particular mantra i neverhad a problem with anybody interpreting that as radha..... yes, it is still an interpretation and nothing wrong with that.... see you people say hara is radha some others say it is hari some others can also say it is shiva because hara is also a name of shiva "harhar mahadev" is a popular slogan. So no problem with that. But technically it was originally hari because 1) when anyone says hare it means hari which is vishnu/krishna.... it might be in radha sahastra nama but it is only there in a small corner..more popularly hare always reminds one of hari.. like om jai jagdish hare... the popular aarti song..... it is crystal clear it is hari there atleast right? 2) hare rama...radha ramana krishna you are saying... but ramana and rama are two entirely different things... radha ramana is one who roams in heart of radha rama is one who brings happiness so it should have been hare ramana... not hare rama so rama should be taken as sri ramachandra....( and a more distant interpretation is balarama) 3) if radha means one who singularly worships krishna then are not all devotees of Krishna Radha only? But that would be wrong because the word radha means that, but Radha as a name signifies Radha the goddess the energy of Krishna. Similarly krishna cana lso mean black or all attractive but here in this mantra it is Lord Krishna...similarly hare originally is a call to Lord Hari. So, again my intention is not to hurt anyone's feelings..people can take it either as Radha or Shiva or Hari....depending on their devotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Yes, intrepretate in your own way, everything is one. I didn't see that coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 madhavachari, Do you ever post in the Sri Vaishnava section here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamadagni dasa Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 technicaly i think it's gauri=radharani too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 1) when anyone says hare it means hari which is vishnu/krishna.... it might be in radha sahastra nama but it is only there in a small corner..more popularly hare always reminds one of hari.. like om jai jagdish hare... the popular aarti song..... it is crystal clear it is hari there atleast right? This hindi arati song is a recent composition and is not evidence to prove anything. Hare gramatically is vocative for both Hari and Hara, thus one will find all hymns calling out to Hari with the word hare. This does not mean that other places where the word hare is used cannot refer to shakti (hara). Hara refers to the divine feminine energy. Some see this as Radha, others as Lakshmi or Sita. There is nothing wrong in worshipping Radha Krishna and Sita Rama with hare krishna, hare rama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Sri Caitanya-caritamrita Madhya 25.63-64: zekhara, paramAnanda, tapana, sanAtana cAri-jana mili' kare nAma-saGkIrtana zekhara--Candrazekhara; paramAnanda--ParamAnanda PurI; tapana--Tapana Mizra; sanAtana--SanAtana GosvAmI; cAri-jana mili'--all four of them; kare--perform; nAma-saGkIrtana--chanting of the Hare KRSNa mantra. There were four people accompanying SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu, and these were Candrazekhara, ParamAnanda PurI, Tapana Mizra and SanAtana GosvAmI. They were all chanting the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra in the following way. "haraye namaH kRSNa yAdavAya namaH gopAla govinda rAma zrI-madhusUdana" haraye--unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead; namaH--obeisances; kRSNa--Lord KRSNa; yAdavAya--to the descendant of the Yadu family; namaH--obeisances; gopAla--GopAla; govinda--Govinda; rAma--RAma; zrI-madhusUdana--SrI MadhusUdana. They chanted, "Haraye namaH kRSNa yAdavAya namaH, gopAla govinda rAma zrI-madhusUdana." PURPORT This is another way of chanting the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra. The meaning is as follows: "I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, KRSNa. He is the descendant of the Yadu family. Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto GopAla, Govinda, RAma and SrI MadhusUdana." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhavachari Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 I was under the impression that Sri Varada Yatiraja Jeeyar didn't like his disciples quarreling with other people on matters of theology. His mood, I believe, is that he likes to see only the good things we can see in someone, and to forget about the other things that are temporary and material. Someone might make a point of attacking Sri Rami Sivan because he is a homosexual but his Gurudeva is always going to be merciful to Rami. In this way, it is better to let others follow their own path and beliefs without interfering in their lives. Your impression is totally wrong my friend. Are you implying that Sri Ramanuja Acharya didn´t argue against philosophical misconceptions of others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhavachari Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 The final word in this discussion is the origin of the mantra itself, namely Kali-santarana Upanishad! "'By merely uttering the names of the Primeval Purusha, who is Bhagavan Narayana, one is freed from the clutches of Kali.' Narada asked again: 'What are those names of Narayana?'" sa hovaca hiraNyagarbhah hare rAma hare rAma rAma rAma hare hare hare kRShNa hare kRShNa kRShNa kRShNa hare hare" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 technically speaking madhvachari is correct.... but what one thinks when he chants is upto them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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