a counter example

[Guest guest]

Jahnu Dvipa Prabhu:

> When someone says that deep emotional issues first have to be dealt with

> by some modern psychological process before the mind can take to the

> chanting of the holy name, it's the same as saying that the chanting of

> Hare Krishna cannot help initially overcome psycholical problems, which is

> the same as saying that the devotional process is dependent on material

> circumstances.

 

Thanks. Your explanation (above) helped me understand your wife's point,

though I still disagree with it (please see my next point, which explains

why).

 

> What you seem to be saying is that modern psychology can help us become

> better devotees. What do you think Prabhupada would have to say to that?

 

>From "The Nectar of Devotion":

". . . we must practice sadhana-bhakti . . . These practices will help one

become cured of madness. As a man's mental disease is cured by the

directions of a psychiatrist, so this sadhana-bhakti cures the conditioned

soul of his madness under the spell of maya, material illusion."

 

Here, mental and spiritual madness are kept distinct. There are processes,

Srila Prabhupada says, for curing both. You and your wife (in the first

statement above) have fused, or conflated, these two types of madness and

then argued that the spiritual cure alone is potent enough to cure mental

madness. That is not what Srila Prabhupada did. He validated the

pyschiatrist's (separate) cure of mental madness.

 

I wrote:

> > Suppose someone argued that seeing a psychologist *had* helped in

> > overcoming a difficulty and enabled this devotee to go on with chanting

> > Hare Krishna. What will your reply be?

 

J D commented:

> I'd say you'd have to show me some evidence before I'd believe that. How

> can modern psychology help devotees who are aspiring to become pure and

> free from from false ego? Please tell me that? The only thing I have seen

> modern psychology do to anyone is to enhance and solidify their false

> egos.

 

But sir! Then you must not have yet seen all there is to see, because

counselors who work from a spiritual grounding can do better than that.

 

As for evidence, just ask the devotees trained in counseling or meet

devotees successfully counseled (even by a nondevotee with a spiritual

grounding). Or you can find evidence by reading more on this topic.

 

--ys, td

[Guest guest]

As regards to using Srila Prabhupada's statements about psychology, these

statements are not "ex-cathedra"--they are not infallible pronouncements as

to the fitness of psychology.

 

 

"Psychiatrists are humbug, all humbug. They cannot help. Best thing is to be

engaged in continuously chanting and hearing Sankirtana, that will cure

anyone of mental disease."

 

(Prabhupada. "Letter to Upendra". February 19, 1972)

 

 

 

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 05:23 +0200, Tattvavit (das) ACBSP (BBT) <

Tattvavit.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

>

> Jahnu Dvipa Prabhu:

> > When someone says that deep emotional issues first have to be dealt with

> > by some modern psychological process before the mind can take to the

> > chanting of the holy name, it's the same as saying that the chanting of

> > Hare Krishna cannot help initially overcome psycholical problems, which

> is

> > the same as saying that the devotional process is dependent on material

> > circumstances.

>

> Thanks. Your explanation (above) helped me understand your wife's point,

> though I still disagree with it (please see my next point, which explains

> why).

>

> > What you seem to be saying is that modern psychology can help us become

> > better devotees. What do you think Prabhupada would have to say to that?

>

> From "The Nectar of Devotion":

> ". . . we must practice sadhana-bhakti . . . These practices will help one

> become cured of madness. As a man's mental disease is cured by the

> directions of a psychiatrist, so this sadhana-bhakti cures the conditioned

> soul of his madness under the spell of maya, material illusion."

>

> Here, mental and spiritual madness are kept distinct. There are processes,

> Srila Prabhupada says, for curing both. You and your wife (in the first

> statement above) have fused, or conflated, these two types of madness and

> then argued that the spiritual cure alone is potent enough to cure mental

> madness. That is not what Srila Prabhupada did. He validated the

> pyschiatrist's (separate) cure of mental madness.

>

>