Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 This, and the example that Mahatma prabhu mentioned re Srila Prabhupada's son, are specific cases of someone *needing* a medical practitioner for a specific purpose. I'd like to redirect the conversation back to it's original course, ie: that "life transformation" courses can enhance one's spiritual life. Mahatma started to bring up child abuse -- which of course everyone does these days: you can't have a conversation in ISKCON without hearing about it, as if it's the only thing that's ever happened in ISKCON. But can anyone tell me that those devotees who are going along to DG's courses in droves are ISKCON child abuse victims, or are all "totally mad" as Maharaja mentions below, or are crazy like Srila Prabhupada's son was? Perhaps they are...there's a thought.... To attend a course like that and claim that it's something that enhances one's spiritual life *is* madness, when the only thing that enhances spiritual life is chanting Hare Krishna. And I still haven't seen anyone provide a quote from Srila Prabhupada or any of our other acaryas that psychology can benefit one's spiritual life, except for the point he makes about specific mental diseases. We're not talking about specific mental diseases: we're talking about using psychological tools in "life transformation" courses and claiming that they enhance spiritual life. Especially when taught by a ritvik. > take the recent example of Bhubhanesvara acbsp in vraja. He slipped in > sept 2005 on some stairs and then hurt his hip. He went for surgery in > agra, then He was promised that if he came to Mumbai temple, they'd take > care of him and get him care. When He got to Mumbai and was somehow > neglected. He literally went mad and took off his brahmin thread, stopped > sadhana etc. it got the vraja devotees worried and later with Braja Bihari > and Sarvabhauma das's help. Bhu went to a "delhi Shrink" who helped Bhu > see his mental problem. the shrinks fees paid for by the KB deity dept. > > Bhu got better mentally, and at once resumed his solid sadhana, and today > is totally ok as before. but for 6-months or so, He was totally mad. > > this incident, validates that while sadhana is the ultimate medicine, some > incident can actually drive someone crazy, and when it happens, "shrinks" > *maybe* necessary. > > TridaNDi BhikSu, Bhakti Visrambha MAdhava > > > > Thanks. Your explanation (above) helped me understand your wife's > > > point, though I still disagree with it (please see my next point, > > > which explains why). > > > > > > > What you seem to be saying is that modern psychology can help us > > > > become better devotees. What do you think Prabhupada would have to > > > > say to that? > > > > > > From "The Nectar of Devotion": > > > ". . . we must practice sadhana-bhakti . . . These practices will help > > > one become cured of madness. As a man's mental disease is cured by the > > > directions of a psychiatrist, so this sadhana-bhakti cures the > > > conditioned soul of his madness under the spell of maya, material > > > illusion." > > > > > > Here, mental and spiritual madness are kept distinct. There are > > > processes, Srila Prabhupada says, for curing both. You and your wife > > > (in the first statement above) have fused, or conflated, these two > > > types of madness and then argued that the spiritual cure alone is > > > potent enough to cure mental madness. That is not what Srila > > > Prabhupada did. He validated the pyschiatrist's (separate) cure of > > > mental madness. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 In a message dated 6/26/2006 11:20:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Jahnu (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes: > > In a message dated 6/26/2006 6:50:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > Jahnu (AT) pamho (DOT) net writes: > > To have faith in God or to have a philosophy to match is not spirituality > according to Vaishnava siddhanta. > > > If this is the case, why did Prabhupada say to the Christian priests he > met that we should cooperate toghether to spead God consciousness? He must have said that just to encourage them. I can't accept that Prabhupada was so much in illusion that he thought there was anything spiritual about Christianity. ONe devotee asked Prabhupada if the pope makes spiritual advancement because obviously the pope doesn't follow the regulative principles but at the same time is a "spiritual" leader. So the devotee was confused about his position. Prabhupada said "yes, he is serving God." I heard this on the memories video. As I remember it was on the video that included a Prabhupda reunion in Australia. In fact, he said that both the Bible and the Koran were scriptures for the mlecchas. Rupa Goswami says in NOD that anything done for Krishna is spiritual and anything done for any other reason is material. Granted those are inferior scriptures. Are you saying outside of vaisnavism it is not possible to serve God? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 > In fact, he said that both the Bible and the > Koran were scriptures for the mlecchas. Rupa Goswami says in NOD that > anything done for Krishna is spiritual and anything done for any other > reason is material. > > Granted those are inferior scriptures. Are you saying outside of > vaisnavism it is not possible to serve God? No, that's not what I am saying. But Rupa Goswami is saying that only service to Krishna is spiritual, any other service is material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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