Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 dear moderators: i had posted a response to Sri vinayaka's query on this kathopanishad verse yesterday - june 29th, 2006 at 9:33 am - the message has not made it to the list as yet . i am just wondering what is the hold up ! namaste vinatha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Thank you Subbuji for a lucid explanation to Sudeshji's query on the Kathopanishad verse. SudeshJi, may i also add a few lines to subbuji's excellent response btw, i am no means a Guru BUT A SADHAKA STRUGGLING ON THE PATH ! in any spiritual e. In the very first verse of Sadhana Panchakam , Sri sri Adi Shankara bhagvadapada states : vedo nityama dhIyatAM *tad uditaM karma svanuSThitAM tenezasya vidhIyatAm apacitiH kAmye matis tyajyatAm, pApaughaH pari dhUyatAM bhava sukhe doSo 'nusaMdhIyatAM AtmecchA vyavasIyatAM nijagRhAt tUrNaM vinirgamyatAm *Study the Vedas (Holy Scriptures) daily.* Perform diligently the duties (karmas) ordained by them. DEDICATE ALL those actions (karmas) as WORSHIP unto the Lord. Renounce ALL DESIRES in the heart and mind. Why would the acharya recommend the reading of Vedas if it is not necessary for Sadhana ? here , i like to recall the words of Sri Kanchi Maha swamigal on Study of the vedas : "In fact the Vedas are never intended to be written down and read. Veda Adhyayana implied hearing from the lips of the teacher and repeating after him. That is why in ancient Tamil classics, the Vedas are referred to as Ezhutaakkilavi , unwritten book. Veda Paatakaas, who learn from books, are included among the six classes of inferior scholars. The other five classes are those who recite the Vedas musically, those who recite very fast, those who shake their heads while reciting, those who do not know the meaning, and those who have a poor voice. This is made clear in the following verse : Geetee seeghree sirahkampee tatha likhita paatakah anarthajnah alpakanthascha shadete paatakaadhamaah. " Mahaperiyavaal adds : "Veda adhyayana, without knowing the meaning thereof is like preserving the body without the soul. Veda Mantraas uttered with a knowledge of their meaning will lead to Paapa-parihara(expiation of sins), and Arishtasaanti (liquidation of evil), and pave the way to Brahma-saakshaathkaara (God realisation)." Yes indeed! There are three sections - first, the karma kanda teaches you the importance of rituals and sacrifices . The upasana kanda teaches you the importance of worship and the jnana kanda instructs you on Nirguna brahman. It is not only important to study the great scriptural texts like the vedas and the upanishads but it is even more important to *live* the Truth contained in these great scriptures. If such a study is undertaken merely for intellectual curiosity, it is of no use. If vedas and upanishads teach you to differentiate between what is real and what is unreal, half the battle is won ! then of course , one needs the kripa of Guru and GOD FOR REALIZATION TO OCCUR ! verse 59 of viveka chudamani states When the supreme reality is not understood, the study of the scriptures is useless, and study of the scriptures is useless when the supreme reality has been understood. verse 61 states Except for the medicine of the knowledge of God, what use are Vedas, scriptures, mantras and such medicines when you have been bitten by the snake of ignorance? This is why we need the guidance of a realized Sadguru and that too is possible only by the grace of God. That is why verse 526 of viveka chudamani states "The ultimate tranquillity is the return to silence of the intellect, since the intellect is the cause of false assumptions, and in this peace the great souled man who knows God and who has become God experiences the infinite joy of non-dual bliss. " On this day dedicated to GURU, JOIN ME IN OFFERING prayers to the guru of all Gurus, Sri DAKSHINAMURTHY , THE SILENT GURU . to give us the 'divya' chaksu to realize the vedantic truth of non-dual bliss ! subbuji, btw, that was an excellent post on Sri Dakshinamurthy! Btw , when sri vishnu bhagwan or sri Anantasayanam is in a reclining position on a ksheera sagara , His eyes may be closed but in reality He is not 'sleeping' He is in *yoga nidra* and his right hand is offering puja to the Shiva- linga! On anoter note, there is a Vina vadini icon of sri Dakshinamurthy ! Subbuji, could you please explain the significance of this icon of sri dakshinamurthy? there is a beautiful dikshitir kriti on this icon ! here is my favorite verse from adi shankara bhagvadapada's guruvashtakam shadangAdi vedo mukhe shAstra vidya,kavitvAdi gadyam supadyam karo ti manaschennalagnam gurOrangripadme tataHkim tataHkim tataHkim tataH kim? The Vedas with their six auxiliaries and knowledge of sciences may be on the one's lips; one may have the gift of poesy; and may compose good prose and poetry;but if one's mind be not attached to the lotus feet of the Guru what thence, what thence, what thence, what thence? Jaya Jaya Shankara Hara Hara Shankara Aum Sri Dakshinamurtaye namaha! Are you sure you want to send this message? --- ----------- 2006 Inc. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy - Copyright/IP Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help A Rasika Premi --- ----------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business. The HTML graphics in this message have been displayed. [Edit Preferences - What's This?] DeleteReplyForwardSpamMove... Previous | Next | Back to Messages Save Message Text | Full Headers Check MailCompose Search MailSearch the Web Move Options [New Folder] penkalai katali... 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Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Namaskarams to all, I am reproducing some parts of the book Viveka vhoodamani by Swami Dayananda Sarasvati. ahankArAdidehAntAn bandhAnajnAnakalpitAn svasvrUpAvabodhena moktum icchA mumukshutA Meaning of the verse: "The desire to give up all bondages from the ego to the body - that are born of ignirance - by the recognition of the nature of oneself is mumukshutA, the disposition of a mumukshu." The self is free. That fact has to be recognised. Everything else like desa,kAla, nimitta are helpful. But what is useful or helpful is different from what delivers the goods, which is knowledge. Here we should understand that freedom is, what I want and that freedom happens to be in the form of self-knowledge; therefore I want self knowledge. Therefore mumukshutA is to be converetd to jijnAsa, the desire to know. The ego'I', who is insecure, who is inadequate, who has got hundreds of oipnions about himdelf is called ahamkAra. Beginning from this ego upto the body, at every stage there is bondage. If ahamkAra is to be taken to be the nature of Atma, that is bondage. If the mind is to be taken to be the nature of AtmA, there is bondage. If prANa is to be taken to be the nature of Atma there is bondage. If the body is taken to be the nature of Atma there is bondage.All these bondages are born of ignorance alone. The one who has got a desire to free onself from them is a mumukshu. Bondage is purely a sense. One feels bound when one does not like the situation. To feel bound one does not require a real bondage, a mere sense of bondage is good enough. And this sense is born of the notion "I am this much alone" with reference to the body-mind- sense- complex.This notion itself is born of self-ignorance. Therefore bondage is created by self-ignorance. Being the product of ignorance, bondage is destroyed by nothing other than removing the ignorance. Nirvikalpa samAdhi etc do not really help in getting rid of bondage. SamAdhi is the capacity to resolve the mind, where you give up everything as in sleep. In sleep there is no ego and you are not conscious of your body mind etc. you have given up all these bondages but you do not come out liberated from the sleep. Similarly in a samAdhi experience the subject object division is for the time being resolved; but it does not dispel the ignorance, the cause of bondage in any way. SO samAdhi cannot destroy bondage. Again if Nirvikalpa samAdhi is the end, then any thought that occurs in your mind would be an obstruction which you would try and remove. In the name of removing the obstruction you will be thinking, which means obstruction. Therefore thought becomes a nightmare and you cannot do anything about it. The AtmA alone is nirvikalpa, free from any duality. The notion that the world is different from you, the subject, is the main duality. Because of this, you take yourself as small and what you are not, is big. This set up is good enough to be a samsAri. As in the dream the duality of subject and object is mithya. The Atma alone appears in the from of both the subject and the object. There is really no duality, like even the gold does not become many just because there are many ornaments. Therefore even now when you are confronting an object, there is no second thing; there is non duality alone. Even now the subject and object are the same vastu which is advaya or nirvikalpa. One must understand clearly that the knowledge 'nirvikalpoham' is different from the nirvikalpa samAdhi which is the condition of the mind, an experience. "Aham nirvikalpah - I am non-dual" is the knowledge which destroys the conclusion ' I am subject to duality' The bondage set up by ignorance can be given up by the knowledge of what the nature of Atma is. MumukshutA is the desire of giving up the ignorance by the recognitionof the nature of the Atma" A desire to be free is coverted into a desire to know. And this conversion is a must because the desire to be free can take you all over the world without getting you anywhere near what you are searching for. But the desire to know, takes you to the right teacher. then there is a direction in your inquiry; you go for mthe means of knolwedge with shraddhA, shama dama etc. The desire to be free also means a desire to sublate the body , mind etc., in the wake of knowledge. So even if you are wiuth the body or with the world there is no harm done. thought is no more a night mare being sublated as mithya. om namo narayanya Lakshmi Muthuswamy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 namaskaram honestly i was waiting for this mail from Lakshmi Muthuswamy....as her introduction was good enough for any one to know that she is going to be an active participant and we are going to be benefited by one more enlightening member and this SATSANG GROUP is going to be one of the best one as we have already Subbuji, Dhyanaji, Sadanandaji, Maniji , Ramachandranji...well the list is long.. Thanks a lot Advaitin and Lakshmiji..... wonderful is not a good enough word this hastens us to open the closed door- that the mind is to open it to the knowledge. pranam. namaskaram lakmuthu <lakmuthu > wrote: Namaskarams to all, I am reproducing some parts of the book Viveka vhoodamani by Swami Dayananda Sarasvati. ahankArAdidehAntAn bandhAnajnAnakalpitAn svasvrUpAvabodhena moktum icchA mumukshutA Meaning of the verse: "The desire to give up all bondages from the ego to the body - that are born of ignirance - by the recognition of the nature of oneself is mumukshutA, the disposition of a mumukshu." The self is free. That fact has to be recognised. Everything else like desa,kAla, nimitta are helpful. But what is useful or helpful is different from what delivers the goods, which is knowledge. Here we should understand that freedom is, what I want and that freedom happens to be in the form of self-knowledge; therefore I want self knowledge. Therefore mumukshutA is to be converetd to jijnAsa, the desire to know. The ego'I', who is insecure, who is inadequate, who has got hundreds of oipnions about himdelf is called ahamkAra. Beginning from this ego upto the body, at every stage there is bondage. If ahamkAra is to be taken to be the nature of Atma, that is bondage. If the mind is to be taken to be the nature of AtmA, there is bondage. If prANa is to be taken to be the nature of Atma there is bondage. If the body is taken to be the nature of Atma there is bondage.All these bondages are born of ignorance alone. The one who has got a desire to free onself from them is a mumukshu. Bondage is purely a sense. One feels bound when one does not like the situation. To feel bound one does not require a real bondage, a mere sense of bondage is good enough. And this sense is born of the notion "I am this much alone" with reference to the body-mind- sense- complex.This notion itself is born of self-ignorance. Therefore bondage is created by self-ignorance. Being the product of ignorance, bondage is destroyed by nothing other than removing the ignorance. Nirvikalpa samAdhi etc do not really help in getting rid of bondage. SamAdhi is the capacity to resolve the mind, where you give up everything as in sleep. In sleep there is no ego and you are not conscious of your body mind etc. you have given up all these bondages but you do not come out liberated from the sleep. Similarly in a samAdhi experience the subject object division is for the time being resolved; but it does not dispel the ignorance, the cause of bondage in any way. SO samAdhi cannot destroy bondage. Again if Nirvikalpa samAdhi is the end, then any thought that occurs in your mind would be an obstruction which you would try and remove. In the name of removing the obstruction you will be thinking, which means obstruction. Therefore thought becomes a nightmare and you cannot do anything about it. The AtmA alone is nirvikalpa, free from any duality. The notion that the world is different from you, the subject, is the main duality. Because of this, you take yourself as small and what you are not, is big. This set up is good enough to be a samsAri. As in the dream the duality of subject and object is mithya. The Atma alone appears in the from of both the subject and the object. There is really no duality, like even the gold does not become many just because there are many ornaments. Therefore even now when you are confronting an object, there is no second thing; there is non duality alone. Even now the subject and object are the same vastu which is advaya or nirvikalpa. One must understand clearly that the knowledge 'nirvikalpoham' is different from the nirvikalpa samAdhi which is the condition of the mind, an experience. "Aham nirvikalpah - I am non-dual" is the knowledge which destroys the conclusion ' I am subject to duality' The bondage set up by ignorance can be given up by the knowledge of what the nature of Atma is. MumukshutA is the desire of giving up the ignorance by the recognitionof the nature of the Atma" A desire to be free is coverted into a desire to know. And this conversion is a must because the desire to be free can take you all over the world without getting you anywhere near what you are searching for. But the desire to know, takes you to the right teacher. then there is a direction in your inquiry; you go for mthe means of knolwedge with shraddhA, shama dama etc. The desire to be free also means a desire to sublate the body , mind etc., in the wake of knowledge. So even if you are wiuth the body or with the world there is no harm done. thought is no more a night mare being sublated as mithya. om namo narayanya Lakshmi Muthuswamy India Answers: Share what you know. 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Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 namaste ram Mohanji, I consider that its all the grace of Isvara and Acharyas blessings that I got introduced to this gropu. I am touched by your welcome to the group. I shall try my best to share my understanding with the gruop memebers. I find that I am learning a lot more from the group contribution. This is mananam and nidhidhyasanam for me and my writing skills are getting polished by my participation. With love and prayers om namo narayanaya Lakshmi Muthuswamy Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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