Preaching to Christians

[atlantic]

All being said, respectfully taking into account all spiritual POV's, evangelical Christians are the toughest audience around.

 

And not the best.

[atlantic]

Challenge them strongly on the evil of animal slaughter.

 

????

[atlantic]

Don't forget you are talking to a spirit soul and the Supreme Soul dwells in his heart just as he does in yours.

 

Exactly.

[atlantic]

Along with the food program comes the preaching of bigotry and fanaticism of the Jesus cult we call Christianity.

 

There is bigotry in all of us.

[atlantic]

Know thyself.

[atlantic]

Emphasize that God is a Supreme Person and we are eternally His small children.

Is that hinduistic?

[atlantic]

 

they'll tell you are a hellbound idolater, unless you accept Jesus Christ as your Personal Lord and Saviour.

 

I am involved in discussions on the interfaith section of the biggest Christian message board on the web. There are a few Hare Krishnas there, and several Hindus of other sects. No one is interested in interfaith dialogue, they just steadfastly try to convert us to Christianity, with arguments how the Bible is Supreme and other faiths were created by Satan to lead our souls to hell. Have been told Krishna is a fairy-tale being, and much worse.

 

[Guest guest]

 

A hymn is not the New testament.

 

That hymn is based on the gospel of Christ's salvation, taught throughout in the New Testament! Have you ever actually read the Bible?

 

 

Isaiah 53:

53:5

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

 

53:6

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

 

53:7

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

 

53:8

He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

 

53:9

And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

 

53:10

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

 

53:11

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

Romans 5:

5:8

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

5:11

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

 

5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

5:13

(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

 

5:14

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

 

5:15

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

 

5:16

And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

 

5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

 

5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

5:20

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

 

5:21

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

1 Peter 1:

1:18

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

 

1:19

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

 

 

There are many, many, many more verses throughout the Bible that speak about the Messiah bringing redemption to those who believe on him, and those who reject him as being condemned. Believing on Christ's sacrifice is the only means to spiritual atonement according to the Bible. And preaching this gospel of salvation is the duty of every disciple of Christ.

 

1 Corinthians 1:

1:17

For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

 

1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

1:19

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

 

1:20

Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

 

1:21

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

1:22

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

 

1:23

But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

 

1:24

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

[theist]

 

It appears that most modern Christians could actually be awarded for philanthropy and humanism.

I admire their charity work and being concerned for starving people and orphans.

 

In some ways, I think the Christians are more compassionate and mature that a lot of devotees.

 

Christians do a lot of good philanthropic work.

 

Unfortunately, all this philanthropy and charity is just a tool they use to get into a culture of peoples and indoctrinate them into a bigoted religious cult that does not respect other religions such as Hinduism.

 

Along with the food program comes the preaching of bigotry and fanaticism of the Jesus cult we call Christianity.

 

The fact that philantropy and charity work get misused can't be denied. Such work when done in the spirit of Sri Isopanishad is actually a form of karma-yoga. As such it can also become karma/bhakti -yoga or action in Krsna Consciousness by an elevation in motive and purpose. I believe Christians have an impulse to this but get misdirected due to lack of knowledge. One can be well meaning but wrong.

 

Doing charity work is following the instructions of Jesus Christ. If they have as motive doing good to others and in by doing so drawing people to Christ at the same time as feeding them and helping them in times of need that cannot be faulted or dismissed as biogtry and fanaticism. Jesus taught that such charity should be done as an offering to God. The altar of the Lord is not just existing in a special room inside the local Temple Church or Mosque or even in the homes of practioners. The altar of the Lord is also within the heart of every living being. So offering food to the hungry can be every bit as much an offering to God as placing fruit on the altar at your local worship center. Depends on consciousness and motive.

 

So when we feed the hungry, clothe those lacking in clothing, shelter the homeless we should do it with an eye to pleasing Krsna and also drawing that person that we help closer to the Lord, that to me is also bhakti. Is it not?

 

The problem comes when we use charity work to control and manipulate and otherwise exploit the poor. The good work then can be used to draw in big donors (or millions of small ones) who will want to help or be associated with such an effort for their own egoistic (ahankara)purposes. These include expanding their religious institution even. Big donor means another church or temple where we can collect more $ and build yet another church or temple etc. And build palatial homes and such for our selves along the way. Things can get complicated when they get too big and even that which started in a well meaning way can become distracted into ego work. The more insidious types of exploitation are too obvious to mention. It is not just the Christians who need to be careful here.

 

Acts of charity and not to be given up, we just need to elevate our motive in doing them.

[Guest guest]

 

 

Doing charity work is following the instructions of Jesus Christ. If they have as motive doing good to others and in by doing so drawing people to Christ at the same time as feeding them and helping them in times of need that cannot be faulted or dismissed as biogtry and fanaticism. Jesus taught that such charity should be done as an offering to God. The altar of the Lord is not just existing in a special room inside the local Temple Church or Mosque or even in the homes of practioners. The altar of the Lord is also within the heart of every living being. So offering food to the hungry can be every bit as much an offering to God as placing fruit on the altar at your local worship center. Depends on consciousness and motive.

 

like the liberal hippies, you only selectively quote Jesus. Jesus also told his followers to go and make disciples of Christ in all nations. He told them to preach the gospel to every creature, and those who reject the gospel, will be condemned. He said I am the door, by me if any man enters he shall be saved. He did not preach all religions or one. The Hare Krishna religion does not follow the gospel of Christ, so please, spare us the lectures on what Jesus taught.

[theist]

 

they'll tell you are a hellbound idolater, unless you accept Jesus Christ as your Personal Lord and Saviour.

 

I am involved in discussions on the interfaith section of the biggest Christian message board on the web. There are a few Hare Krishnas there, and several Hindus of other sects. No one is interested in interfaith dialogue, they just steadfastly try to convert us to Christianity, with arguments how the Bible is Supreme and other faiths were created by Satan to lead our souls to hell. Have been told Krishna is a fairy-tale being, and much worse.

 

Then why do you still go there? What is your motive? That you need to ask because by being there you are aiding their offensiveness towards Krsna. Do you not see how you are implicated in this. You are hurting your own creeper with no chance of benefiting anyone. Please leave that place.

 

The sign may have said "Interfaith dialouge all welcome." But if upon entering if you find something else why remain? If you and the other Hare Krsna's are serious about spreading Krsna conconscious knowledge, or preaching, then you should spend your time with the innocent, meaning those that have a somewhat open ear and are not outright enimical to your message.

[theist]

 

like the liberal hippies, you only selectively quote Jesus. Jesus also told his followers to go and make disciples of Christ in all nations. He told them to preach the gospel to every creature, and those who reject the gospel, will be condemned. He said I am the door, by me if any man enters he shall be saved. He did not preach all religions or one. The Hare Krishna religion does not follow the gospel of Christ, so please, spare us the lectures on what Jesus taught.

 

The context of the post I responded to was on charity work. And who is this "us" that you refer to. You appear to be another religious fanatic who have come to convert the wicked etc. etc. I suggest you drop your 'John the Baptist come again' routine as no one here will fall for it and try to enter in the conversation in a mature way.

[theist]

 

Emphasize that God is a Supreme Person and we are eternally His small children.

Is that hinduistic?

 

hinduistic?? Who cares? It is the absolute truth according to the Vaisnava(devotional) teachers.

 

There is the Sun and all the tiny particles of sunlight emanating from the sun. The particles came claim a certain oneness with the Sun but they can never claim to be the Sun globe. It's like that.

[Guest guest]

 

The context of the post I responded to was on charity work. And who is this "us" that you refer to. You appear to be another religious fanatic who have come to conert the wicked etc. etc. I suggest you drop your 'John the Baptist come again' routine as no one here will fall for it and try to enter in the conversation in a mature way.

 

Put yourself in a Christian's shoes for one minute. They look at you a Hare Krishna, and see one still in Satan's Kingdom of Darkness. This does not mean they think you are a Satanist, but rather deceived by Satan. The Bible states that Satan comes as an Angel of Light, preaching other religions which claim to be holy and all, but in truth are false. Christians believe Satan's intent is to stray souls from the true gospel, with twisted bible interpretations and other religions. Paul said, though we or an angel preach any other gospel until you than the Gospel as recorded in the New Testament, let him be accursed.

 

So because the Christian cares about your soul, they are going to do all they can to try and turn you from the Hare Krishna religion to the faith of Christ as Lord and Savior. The bible says if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved, and become a new creature. This is what Christians believe.

 

So you see because the Christian sees you as someone who is not born again, and covered by the blood of Jesus, the most caring thing (from their perspective) they can do is to share the gospel with you.

 

Christians do not just see Hare Krishnas as practicing a false religion, but all non-biblical faiths. So (from their perspective) it is their duty to try to win your souls to Christ, or they will be held accountable on Judgment Day for not warning you that you are on the broad path that leads to hell.

 

So when the Christians do charity work, you can understand why they do not just try to meet the physical needs, but they also try to convert them to the Christian faith. According to Christians, there are over 4 billion souls in the world, headed to a Christless eternity. So of course they want to send missionaries to every corner of this globe, to try save them, before they die and its too late.

[theist]

 

Challenge them strongly on the evil of animal slaughter.

 

????

 

Yes indeed. God has not limited His dwelling place to humans alone. Our goal to be conscious of the Lord everywhere and in all. That includes the cows and other animals. How can you torture and slaughter some helpless living being while at the same time recognizing the Lord's presence within that animal's form? It is not possible. One will have to go. We say give of the animal slaughter and keep the consciousness of God who lives in all.

[theist]

I humble request. Would the christian and hindu fanactics please take their spitting contest to the back alley where it belongs. We want to discuss God consciousness free from all this sectarian and sub-spiritual mumbo jumbo.

 

Thank you

[Guest guest]

 

I humble request. Would the christian and hindu fanactics please take their spitting contest to the back alley where it belongs. We want to discuss God consciousness free from all this sectarian and sub-spiritual mumbo jumbo.

 

Thank you

 

I humbly disagree...this thread started as a discussion on dialogue/preaching with regard to Christians. It doesn't have to be a spitting contest...maybe a reasonable discussion could evolve.

[Kripamoya]

It appears we have a fire and brimstone Christian on board.

 

Don't worry about me though!

 

I have already been bored again.

 

Leave us devil Krishna's to our own ways.

[Kripamoya]

Christian Preaching in Bhadrachalam Sri Rama Temple

 

Posted May 23, 2006

EEnadu, May 24, 2006 (Largest circulated Telugu Daily in Andhra Pradesh)

 

On Sunday night (May 21,2006) there were an unprecedented rush due to Hanumath Jayanthi. At the same time some missionaries entered the temple and pasted wall posters making devotees angry. Some members of an organization called 'Vikasa Tarangini' immediately reported to the Board Chairman who in turn filed a police case. According to the law other religious activity cannot take place within 200 yards (600 ft) from a religious place.

 

In India Christian missionaries rarely have regard for any law and they are emboldened after their fellow evangelist Mr. Y S Rajasekhar Reddy became Chief Minister of the state.

[Kripamoya]

During his meetings with the Christian missionaries, Mahatma Gandhi had said that they are doing social service with the ulterior motive of conversions. He asked them to give up this offensive program. He also said to them that if this situation continued in a free India he would ask the foreign missionaries to leave the country.

[Kripamoya]

http://www.christianaggression.org/

[Kripamoya]

Floating Idols – In rural villages in India, Missionaries and place a stone or metal idol of a Hindu Deity in bring a bucket of water. The statue will sink in the bucket. Next the Missionary bring a wax-coated idol of Jesus or Virgin Mary (though Christianity prohibits idols) and places that in the bucket. Due the wax-coat, the Christian idol will float. The Missionary will then conclude that because the Christian idol floated, it is “higher” and, therefore, better than the Hindu one. The uneducated villager, not knowing anything about buoyancy or density, falls for the Missionary’s ridiculous explanation and converts to Christianity.

[Kripamoya]

In 1857, British General Lord Canning gave orders for the British to mix crushed cow and pig bones into the salt, butter and sugar rations of his Indian troops. In addition the British greased Enfield rifle cartridges with cow and pig fat. After some time, it was discovered by the troops that the rations they had consumed and the mouth-loaded cartridges had been contaminated with animal fats. This led many devout Hindu and Muslim to believe they were no longer pious members of their respective religions and so many were forced to convert. This outrage led to a massive war-like rebellion by the Hindu and Muslim troops which was eventually quelled by British.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I heard of some such incidents as well while I was in the North-eastern part of India. They use these tactics in the backward areas where people are not very educated.

 

 

Floating Idols – In rural villages in India, Missionaries and place a stone or metal idol of a Hindu Deity in bring a bucket of water. The statue will sink in the bucket. Next the Missionary bring a wax-coated idol of Jesus or Virgin Mary (though Christianity prohibits idols) and places that in the bucket. Due the wax-coat, the Christian idol will float. The Missionary will then conclude that because the Christian idol floated, it is “higher” and, therefore, better than the Hindu one. The uneducated villager, not knowing anything about buoyancy or density, falls for the Missionary’s ridiculous explanation and converts to Christianity.

[theist]

 

I humbly disagree...this thread started as a discussion on dialogue/preaching with regard to Christians. It doesn't have to be a spitting contest...maybe a reasonable discussion could evolve.

 

I would welcome that. If you could identify yourself in some way that distinquishes yourself from all the other guests that would help. Let me first tell you that my initiation into spiritual life came by the mercy of Lord Jesus Christ. Not by church or the Bible but I was touched by the spirit of Christ which really turned my life around. Especially as I grew up an atheist. I have some understanding of what motivates Christians in their preaching. Unfortunately there is a severe lack of knowledge that accompanies their zeal and this causes many problems. There is a strong belief that God only speaks to Christians now and only to Jews in the past. That is simply not the case. That is the first point.