raga Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 It's a bit hard to follow the discussion when there's just one guest after another. Could you please at least type in some nick in place of "Guest" even if you post without registering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti-Fan Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Sure, learn the basics. There are many books besides Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu and Ujjvala-nilamani. But don't be like Sridhar Maharaj and never read them, and then say arrogantly "I never read them, because I am a beginning student. (But I am better than everyone else, so my example is the one to follow.)" How can this be a point of pride? Where is the lobha, where is the eagerness to go on? Me thinks the Babajis are mudding the waters here. This is an internal Gaudiya Math dispute. Srila Narayana Maharaja is also giving extreme honor to Srila Sridhar Maharaja. Pravacana, preaching is for time, place and circumstance. Many devotees are taking Srila Sridhar Maharaja's early 80's preaching to be universal, but who was he preaching to, and what were the conditions? Once Srila Sridhar Maharaja said about Jesus, "Is he static or dynamic, what do you think?" So do you think that Srila Sridhar Maharaja is static or dynamic? Do you think that he really gave his entire realization at that time? And how much of it can we really catch? Your statements are knee jerk Babaji anti Saraswat sentiments. The point that we are making is that Srila Sridhar Maharaja is being taken out of context by those who have not caught the correct mood. If I tell someone driving down the road to slow down and use caution, I am not arguing against forward progress by telling that they should use their brakes. If we argue brakes only then we are dried up sticks in the mud and that is the problem. Srila Sridhar Maharaja was not only as hard as a thunder bolt but mostly he was very soft, like a rose. So your Eunich comment makes a good point, but you need to be more open and broad minded in your approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti-Fan Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Question: I have always understood that the verse, matala harijana kirtana range, pujala raga-patha gaurava bhange, means that our higest ideal is raga-marga, and, keeping it above us, we worship it from afar. Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj: The correct idea is that we must always think it to be above us, otherwise we shall go down to the sahajiya line. Yes and the real followers of Srila Naryana Maharaja totally agree with this point. Why, because those who are actually in raga-marga think of themselves as fallen souls in their humility. And neophytes are actually far, far from raga-marga. So why is Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaja telling that their is so much sahajiya bhajana going on in other Gaudiya Maths? In his Acarya-abhimana he is trying to keep the neophytes in his charge safe from confusion by going outside the gates. This is the same thing that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja did with his ISKCON. But after 20, 30 or 40 years to we still have to maintain the standard of toddlers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Sure, learn the basics. There are many books besides Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu and Ujjvala-nilamani. But don't be like Sridhar Maharaj and never read them, and then say arrogantly "I never read them, because I am a beginning student. (But I am better than everyone else, so my example is the one to follow.)" How can this be a point of pride? Where is the lobha, where is the eagerness to go on? I say to you followers of Sridhar, why not follow the path of Origen and chop your genitals off if being a eunuch for the kingdom of God is the only way to make progress? My final word is this: Trust in your desire to follow in the footsteps of the gopis. Don't let the denigrators of the "gopi bhava club" distract you from the goal. This is the real thing. How utterly offensive and pompous. You are so elevated that you now call Sridhara Maharaja arrogant? I'm very sad to hear such offensive words. Sridhara Maharaja, being the guardian of devotion (a title given him by his Guru Maharaja), always stressed that the only way to actually enter the raga patha is by sincere seva and by Nama Bhajana. He was adamant, as was his Guru Maharaja, that the means of going there is not by reading books and then imagining that by such one has now attained the highest fruit. What did Mahaprabhu say in the height of his Radha bhava? He expressed extreme submission and a complete service attitude. That is the path given to us by our acharyas. Now you want to advocate that we see them as arrogant and that we should listen to the fools who left them and didn't follow them. We have firm faith in their attainment and in the method they have given for us to follow so that we can also attain our goal - but we certainly do not have the same faith in the attainment of people who offend them and claim to have attained something. You can read hundreds of books that are meant for highly elevated souls and which are clearly 'beyond the basics'. Will that call your progress if you have ignored the basics? If you have not gotten beyond the pushings and pullings of your own mind and senses will you now claim that by reading such books and being conversant with their contents everyone should now accept you as elevated? Better for you to become a eunuch since you seem to think that you can be elevated and degraded simultaneously it would be better for you to simply remove your offending appendage - but we both know that the offense isn't in the body - it's in the mind and the only remedy is to beat your mind into submission. Who is arrogant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kripamoya Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 It's a bit hard to follow the discussion when there's just one guest after another. Could you please at least type in some nick in place of "Guest" even if you post without registering? I agree. But, I would really like to see "Raga" change his monicker to "Vaidhi". Concealing one's higher attainments has been encouraged by Srila Rupa Goswami in Bhaktirasamrita sindhu. Let's all be Rupanugas and pretend to be neophytes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kripamoya Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 But, in some ways, I think that Narayan Maharaja is a simple soul just following his own tendencies. I am afraid that he has been contaminated, misled and unjustly dragged into ISKCON turmoil by a batch of Prabhupada disciples who began to use Narayana Maharaja as a weapon against the GBC. I feel certain that he has been fed considerable bad advice and bad information by "syamarani" and some of the other old Prabhupada disciples who have been eaten-up by hatred for the GBC and the ISKCON elite. But, then again, if I was beaten and assaulted like her I might be very bitter and vengeful myself. Nonetheless, they should not have dragged Narayana Maharaja into ISKCON conflict. Being a simple and sincere person, he allowed himself to become the point-man for the anti-GBC movement of Syamarani, Puru das and the rest of them. I fell sorry for Narayana Maharaja. He really didn't want or need all this bunk that has been imposed upon him. I don't follow him or accept him, but I do think he has been the pawn for some very irate and bitter ISKCON devotees who have used him for their own devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Srila Sridhara Maharaja is being used by some irate team of his own, don't you agree? I mean, there isn't much coming from that direction other than spite, anger and fault fiding these days. At least Srila Narayana Maharaja is reviving and enlivening so many who had left. And he is very good at keeping the raga-vidhi balance, a tricky thing to do. You are mistaken if you think he is being manipulated. He keeps that group under spell like only a wizard can. And that is why so many accept him as a coantinuation of Prabhupada. And to top it all, he represents Srila Sridhara Maharaja better than Sudhir, Tripurari, and Narasingha Maharaja all combined and up in arms. Yeah, you guys better worry about him more than you worry about babajis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Sridhara Maharaja (Feb. 4, 1982): "Only what I know I can say to them, this is my position. No physical risk of any war or any fight. I am the last man to accept. I never did it in my life and now also it is so. Always standing in my own fight, alone. I may be alone, but not fighting with the environment, circumstances. I had to fight with Kesava Maharaja some principle of Rathayatra and when they abused me I left my propaganda for the same. The paper was abolished. But I still hold my position, principle there. That they are doing wrong. They have placed not only Jagai Madai, but even Vasudeva and Devananda figures as gatekeepers, I opposed. And so many acarya's figure, that should be worshiped and not a matter of play, as I understood from the teachings of Prabhupada. So I opposed and I still oppose. And the Ratha-yatra, that it is not a matter of play to show to the public." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts