Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Dear Sadhu Maa, thank you for your thoughtful comments on these verses, I very much like what you said about the mirror. In the humble experience I gathered in the year that has passed since coming here, in the Guru's mirror you do get to see your own personality in a new, and not always very becoming, light, and at the same time, a tiny glimpse or shimmer of something else. And in between, the path... The questions you raise about the role of the external Guru and initiation have also been on my mind on and off during the past year, and I would just like to share some thoughts: I read in Talks with Ramana Maharshi something that I find very inspiring: "So also association with the wise will make the mind sink into the Heart. Such association is both mental and physical. The extremely visible being (of the Guru) pushes the mind inward. He is also in the Heart of the seeker and so he draws the latter's inward-bent mind into the Heart". So the 'external' Guru pushes us inwards to where the 'internal' Guru dwells, and these two are one. To me, this makes a lot of sense. He also says, in another part of the book, that the Guru takes on form in order to help us give up the attachment to form. And even though I used to think that to seek refuge with a guru in human form meant a restriction or a narrowing down of the Divine to a particular form and meant divinisation of a person, I now feel that it is precisely the act of seeking refuge with the guru in human form which allows us to realize that the form is no restriction at all. Once we open our hearts to the guru, we find that the guru is much more than the form, beautiful as it is. And then we can begin to see that we are much more than our form also. I hope you can follow what I am trying to say. Swamiji once said: "Sure, much can be said. But how valuable is it?" and I copied that and stuck it on my computer to prevent myself from going on a bit. It is true for many things we will have to dis-cover for ourselves. But as fellow-travellers, it is nice to sit down and enjoy an exchange of thoughts along the way, even though it may be difficult to find the right words. When I started reciting the GG, my first question was 'what is the initiation of the Guru?' and, as I had read elsewhere (perhaps I should stop reading all these books:)) about the necessity of formal initiation, without which all practice would be worthless etc. etc., I became a little anxious about not being initiated etc. But, Swamiji has said (in the FAQ?) that there are many levels of initiation. The mere fact that we are in the position that we have heard of the Guru principle, that we are here, reciting the Guru Gita to honour the Guru, following the instructions of the Guru and deriving great pleasure from that, is good enough for me now. I have found that many questions dissolve in recitation, and that is one great reason for continuing to recite! I enjoyed talking to you, with love, Henny , "Sadhu Maa" <sadumaa wrote: > > More reflections on the Guru Gita. Each verse could make a whole > discussion...yes?! > > Thank you Kalia. Verse 112 - I worship true existence, consciousness > and bliss (saccidanandam), beyond all distinctions, always as my > Guru. He is eternal, full, complete and perfect, beyond attributes, > without qualities. He resides in harmony with his own soul. > > Then in verse 113 - Meditate upon that being who is higher than the > highest. He is the cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the > space of your heart and illuminates the purest clarity. > > Then 114 goes on to discuss the uniting of So and Ham (nature and > consciousness)through which the individual soul is the reflection of > infinite consconsciousness. > > The Dalai Lama talks about how rare and special human birth is. How > much rarer and more special then to actually have the opportunity to > meet a true and living Guru....The true Guru is our example, our > guide and indeed can open the door to our own true self. Yet the > True Guru resides within each of us also, in the space of our hearts > and illuminates clarity....and the Guru is in our Mothers and > Fathers and friends and and....resides within all of creation. > > What is the role of the external Guru? What is Guru Initiation? I > think perhaps at its higher level it about holding up that > mirror...that divine mirror so that we see our Selves...at least a > glimpse....and we then know the goal. The path becomes clear. > > I hope others want to discuss the Guru Gita. I find it so full so > rich. Jai Satsang. Jai Maa! Jai Guru! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Dear Sadu Maa and Henny, Thanks for these beautiful posts and for initiating these discussions. As Henny said, the external guru (form) guides us to the inner guru (without form vs 115). In reading the posts, i had a thought of Mother Ganga who cleans us inside and out .... water to me represents the universal mirror. In the Guru Gita verses 91 and 95 we learn how to apply the Guru within and without, this bears the fruit of wisdom. Jai Guru , "henny_v_i" <henny_v_i wrote: > > Dear Sadhu Maa, > > thank you for your thoughtful comments on these verses, I very much > like what you said about the mirror. In the humble experience I > gathered in the year that has passed since coming here, in the Guru's > mirror you do get to see your own personality in a new, and not always > very becoming, light, and at the same time, a tiny glimpse or shimmer > of something else. And in between, the path... > > The questions you raise about the role of the external Guru and > initiation have also been on my mind on and off during the past year, > and I would just like to share some thoughts: > > I read in Talks with Ramana Maharshi something that I find very > inspiring: "So also association with the wise will make the mind > sink into the Heart. Such association is both mental and physical. The > extremely visible being (of the Guru) pushes the mind inward. He is > also in the Heart of the seeker and so he draws the latter's > inward-bent mind into the Heart". So the 'external' Guru pushes us > inwards to where the 'internal' Guru dwells, and these two are one. > To me, this makes a lot of sense. He also says, in another part of the > book, that the Guru takes on form in order to help us give up the > attachment to form. And even though I used to think that to seek > refuge with a guru in human form meant a restriction or a narrowing > down of the Divine to a particular form and meant divinisation of a > person, I now feel that it is precisely the act of seeking refuge with > the guru in human form which allows us to realize that the form is no > restriction at all. Once we open our hearts to the guru, we find that > the guru is much more than the form, beautiful as it is. And then we > can begin to see that we are much more than our form also. I hope you > can follow what I am trying to say. Swamiji once said: "Sure, much can > be said. But how valuable is it?" and I copied that and stuck it on my > computer to prevent myself from going on a bit. It is true for many > things we will have to dis-cover for ourselves. But as > fellow-travellers, it is nice to sit down and enjoy an exchange of > thoughts along the way, even though it may be difficult to find the > right words. > > When I started reciting the GG, my first question was 'what is the > initiation of the Guru?' and, as I had read elsewhere (perhaps I > should stop reading all these books:)) about the necessity of formal > initiation, without which all practice would be worthless etc. etc., I > became a little anxious about not being initiated etc. But, Swamiji > has said (in the FAQ?) that there are many levels of initiation. The > mere fact that we are in the position that we have heard of the Guru > principle, that we are here, reciting the Guru Gita to honour the > Guru, following the instructions of the Guru and deriving great > pleasure from that, is good enough for me now. I have found that many > questions dissolve in recitation, and that is one great reason for > continuing to recite! > > I enjoyed talking to you, > with love, > > Henny > > > > > > > > , "Sadhu Maa" <sadumaa@> wrote: > > > > More reflections on the Guru Gita. Each verse could make a whole > > discussion...yes?! > > > > Thank you Kalia. Verse 112 - I worship true existence, consciousness > > and bliss (saccidanandam), beyond all distinctions, always as my > > Guru. He is eternal, full, complete and perfect, beyond attributes, > > without qualities. He resides in harmony with his own soul. > > > > Then in verse 113 - Meditate upon that being who is higher than the > > highest. He is the cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the > > space of your heart and illuminates the purest clarity. > > > > Then 114 goes on to discuss the uniting of So and Ham (nature and > > consciousness)through which the individual soul is the reflection of > > infinite consconsciousness. > > > > The Dalai Lama talks about how rare and special human birth is. How > > much rarer and more special then to actually have the opportunity to > > meet a true and living Guru....The true Guru is our example, our > > guide and indeed can open the door to our own true self. Yet the > > True Guru resides within each of us also, in the space of our hearts > > and illuminates clarity....and the Guru is in our Mothers and > > Fathers and friends and and....resides within all of creation. > > > > What is the role of the external Guru? What is Guru Initiation? I > > think perhaps at its higher level it about holding up that > > mirror...that divine mirror so that we see our Selves...at least a > > glimpse....and we then know the goal. The path becomes clear. > > > > I hope others want to discuss the Guru Gita. I find it so full so > > rich. Jai Satsang. Jai Maa! Jai Guru! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 JAI MAA!!! Thank you Hennyji for getting Satsang on the Guru Gita rolling. I loved what you posted and thought your words were perfectly clear and ring true. Now off to recite the Guru Gita again. Let us discuss more tomorrow. Jai Maa! Jai Shiva! , "henny_v_i" <henny_v_i wrote: > > Dear Sadhu Maa, > > thank you for your thoughtful comments on these verses, I very much > like what you said about the mirror. In the humble experience I > gathered in the year that has passed since coming here, in the Guru's > mirror you do get to see your own personality in a new, and not always > very becoming, light, and at the same time, a tiny glimpse or shimmer > of something else. And in between, the path... > > The questions you raise about the role of the external Guru and > initiation have also been on my mind on and off during the past year, > and I would just like to share some thoughts: > > I read in Talks with Ramana Maharshi something that I find very > inspiring: "So also association with the wise will make the mind > sink into the Heart. Such association is both mental and physical. The > extremely visible being (of the Guru) pushes the mind inward. He is > also in the Heart of the seeker and so he draws the latter's > inward-bent mind into the Heart". So the 'external' Guru pushes us > inwards to where the 'internal' Guru dwells, and these two are one. > To me, this makes a lot of sense. He also says, in another part of the > book, that the Guru takes on form in order to help us give up the > attachment to form. And even though I used to think that to seek > refuge with a guru in human form meant a restriction or a narrowing > down of the Divine to a particular form and meant divinisation of a > person, I now feel that it is precisely the act of seeking refuge with > the guru in human form which allows us to realize that the form is no > restriction at all. Once we open our hearts to the guru, we find that > the guru is much more than the form, beautiful as it is. And then we > can begin to see that we are much more than our form also. I hope you > can follow what I am trying to say. Swamiji once said: "Sure, much can > be said. But how valuable is it?" and I copied that and stuck it on my > computer to prevent myself from going on a bit. It is true for many > things we will have to dis-cover for ourselves. But as > fellow-travellers, it is nice to sit down and enjoy an exchange of > thoughts along the way, even though it may be difficult to find the > right words. > > When I started reciting the GG, my first question was 'what is the > initiation of the Guru?' and, as I had read elsewhere (perhaps I > should stop reading all these books:)) about the necessity of formal > initiation, without which all practice would be worthless etc. etc., I > became a little anxious about not being initiated etc. But, Swamiji > has said (in the FAQ?) that there are many levels of initiation. The > mere fact that we are in the position that we have heard of the Guru > principle, that we are here, reciting the Guru Gita to honour the > Guru, following the instructions of the Guru and deriving great > pleasure from that, is good enough for me now. I have found that many > questions dissolve in recitation, and that is one great reason for > continuing to recite! > > I enjoyed talking to you, > with love, > > Henny > > > > > > > > , "Sadhu Maa" <sadumaa@> wrote: > > > > More reflections on the Guru Gita. Each verse could make a whole > > discussion...yes?! > > > > Thank you Kalia. Verse 112 - I worship true existence, consciousness > > and bliss (saccidanandam), beyond all distinctions, always as my > > Guru. He is eternal, full, complete and perfect, beyond attributes, > > without qualities. He resides in harmony with his own soul. > > > > Then in verse 113 - Meditate upon that being who is higher than the > > highest. He is the cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the > > space of your heart and illuminates the purest clarity. > > > > Then 114 goes on to discuss the uniting of So and Ham (nature and > > consciousness)through which the individual soul is the reflection of > > infinite consconsciousness. > > > > The Dalai Lama talks about how rare and special human birth is. How > > much rarer and more special then to actually have the opportunity to > > meet a true and living Guru....The true Guru is our example, our > > guide and indeed can open the door to our own true self. Yet the > > True Guru resides within each of us also, in the space of our hearts > > and illuminates clarity....and the Guru is in our Mothers and > > Fathers and friends and and....resides within all of creation. > > > > What is the role of the external Guru? What is Guru Initiation? I > > think perhaps at its higher level it about holding up that > > mirror...that divine mirror so that we see our Selves...at least a > > glimpse....and we then know the goal. The path becomes clear. > > > > I hope others want to discuss the Guru Gita. I find it so full so > > rich. Jai Satsang. Jai Maa! Jai Guru! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Pranams Henny! Your post was so articulate and had so much depth. Thank you, Gauri , "henny_v_i" <henny_v_i wrote: > > Dear Sadhu Maa, > > thank you for your thoughtful comments on these verses, I very much > like what you said about the mirror. In the humble experience I > gathered in the year that has passed since coming here, in the Guru's > mirror you do get to see your own personality in a new, and not always > very becoming, light, and at the same time, a tiny glimpse or shimmer > of something else. And in between, the path... > > The questions you raise about the role of the external Guru and > initiation have also been on my mind on and off during the past year, > and I would just like to share some thoughts: > > I read in Talks with Ramana Maharshi something that I find very > inspiring: "So also association with the wise will make the mind > sink into the Heart. Such association is both mental and physical. The > extremely visible being (of the Guru) pushes the mind inward. He is > also in the Heart of the seeker and so he draws the latter's > inward-bent mind into the Heart". So the 'external' Guru pushes us > inwards to where the 'internal' Guru dwells, and these two are one. > To me, this makes a lot of sense. He also says, in another part of the > book, that the Guru takes on form in order to help us give up the > attachment to form. And even though I used to think that to seek > refuge with a guru in human form meant a restriction or a narrowing > down of the Divine to a particular form and meant divinisation of a > person, I now feel that it is precisely the act of seeking refuge with > the guru in human form which allows us to realize that the form is no > restriction at all. Once we open our hearts to the guru, we find that > the guru is much more than the form, beautiful as it is. And then we > can begin to see that we are much more than our form also. I hope you > can follow what I am trying to say. Swamiji once said: "Sure, much can > be said. But how valuable is it?" and I copied that and stuck it on my > computer to prevent myself from going on a bit. It is true for many > things we will have to dis-cover for ourselves. But as > fellow-travellers, it is nice to sit down and enjoy an exchange of > thoughts along the way, even though it may be difficult to find the > right words. > > When I started reciting the GG, my first question was 'what is the > initiation of the Guru?' and, as I had read elsewhere (perhaps I > should stop reading all these books:)) about the necessity of formal > initiation, without which all practice would be worthless etc. etc., I > became a little anxious about not being initiated etc. But, Swamiji > has said (in the FAQ?) that there are many levels of initiation. The > mere fact that we are in the position that we have heard of the Guru > principle, that we are here, reciting the Guru Gita to honour the > Guru, following the instructions of the Guru and deriving great > pleasure from that, is good enough for me now. I have found that many > questions dissolve in recitation, and that is one great reason for > continuing to recite! > > I enjoyed talking to you, > with love, > > Henny > > > > > > > > , "Sadhu Maa" <sadumaa@> wrote: > > > > More reflections on the Guru Gita. Each verse could make a whole > > discussion...yes?! > > > > Thank you Kalia. Verse 112 - I worship true existence, consciousness > > and bliss (saccidanandam), beyond all distinctions, always as my > > Guru. He is eternal, full, complete and perfect, beyond attributes, > > without qualities. He resides in harmony with his own soul. > > > > Then in verse 113 - Meditate upon that being who is higher than the > > highest. He is the cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the > > space of your heart and illuminates the purest clarity. > > > > Then 114 goes on to discuss the uniting of So and Ham (nature and > > consciousness)through which the individual soul is the reflection of > > infinite consconsciousness. > > > > The Dalai Lama talks about how rare and special human birth is. How > > much rarer and more special then to actually have the opportunity to > > meet a true and living Guru....The true Guru is our example, our > > guide and indeed can open the door to our own true self. Yet the > > True Guru resides within each of us also, in the space of our hearts > > and illuminates clarity....and the Guru is in our Mothers and > > Fathers and friends and and....resides within all of creation. > > > > What is the role of the external Guru? What is Guru Initiation? I > > think perhaps at its higher level it about holding up that > > mirror...that divine mirror so that we see our Selves...at least a > > glimpse....and we then know the goal. The path becomes clear. > > > > I hope others want to discuss the Guru Gita. I find it so full so > > rich. Jai Satsang. Jai Maa! Jai Guru! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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