Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 I have written a comment on this on the HS blog titled, "Are Scriptures Useful?" http://www..net/blog/index.html Peter wrote: > > Hi Dennis, > > You might look at Vivekacudamani. > > v59 > The study of scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is > unknown, > and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known. > > v60 > The scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely > causes the mind to ramble. > Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of > the Self. > > v162 > As long as the book-learned man does not give up his identification > with the > body, organs, etc which are unreal, > there is no talk of emancipation for him, even if he be erudite in the > Vedanta philosophy. > > (Translated by Swami Madhavananda) > > Ramana Maharshi said many similar things which you can find for > yourself in > 'Talks', but not necessarily both statements in the same sentence. > > Best wishes, > > Peter > ________________________________ > > advaitin <advaitin%40> > [advaitin <advaitin%40>] > On Behalf > Of Dennis Waite > 30 June 2006 21:38 > advaitin <advaitin%40> > Reported Shankara quotation > > Hi All, > > I have a question regarding a purported quotation of Shankara. Since I > became famous (joke!), people are increasingly sending me books on Advaita > to review, and hopefully recommend on the website. I have just read a book > by a neo-Advaitin teacher (who shall remain nameless for the moment) which > has inspired me to write a detailed criticism of their position. I > would be > very grateful if anyone could clarify the position regarding the > following. > > A questioner claims to be quoting from Shankara when he says: > > "Study of the scriptures is fruitless as long as Brahman has not been > experienced. And when Brahman has been experienced, it is useless to read > the scriptures." > > Obviously, I cannot believe for an instant that Shankara said this but my > question is this. Did Shankara make a statement about studying scriptures > which has been grossly misrepresented? If so, what was it and where was it > made? Or does anyone know who did say it? > > Best wishes, > > Dennis > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Nmaste Harsha-Ji: "Are Scriptures Useful?" Absolutely, Yes. I look at them as the "Road Signs" on the path of saadhaka and help them realize whether they are on the correct path! However, getting attached to them can also prevent saadhaka to remain objective through attachments to the smapradaaya. Regards, Dr. Yadu , Harsha wrote: > > I have written a comment on this on the HS blog titled, "Are Scriptures > Useful?" > > http://www..net/blog/index.html > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Namaste, Getting attached to scritures and debates on them, amounts to Sashtra Eshana, one of the three attachments, namely Vitta Eshana, Loka Eshana and Sashtra Eshana. Hari Om R. S. Mani Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Dear Dr. Yadu-Ji, We can all agree on what you said. Harsha ymoharir wrote: > > Nmaste Harsha-Ji: > > "Are Scriptures Useful?" > > Absolutely, Yes. > > I look at them as the "Road Signs" on the path of saadhaka and help > them realize whether they are on the correct path! > > However, getting attached to them can also prevent saadhaka to > remain objective through attachments to the smapradaaya. > > Regards, > > Dr. Yadu > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Dear Ones, For me, it's been a road of re-discovery. It first comes to me as a question, a 'what if?'. Though it seems on one level, I've known everything, and books or words would fall into my lap or mind, and then the experience arrived to prove what I just read. And sometimes an experience happens, not quite understanding what really occured, I would read something, meet someone or simply, had another experience that confirmed, concretized, solidified the thought that became word that became my experience of life. This past year and a half have been an amazing and unbelievable assertion of my last question. What is love? The answer it seems is the bottomless desire to love all and be loved by all. Exactly in this one moment. Still working on it ;-) YIL, Ana , Harsha wrote: > > Dear Dr. Yadu-Ji, > > We can all agree on what you said. > > Harsha > > ymoharir wrote: > > > > Nmaste Harsha-Ji: > > > > "Are Scriptures Useful?" > > > > Absolutely, Yes. > > > > I look at them as the "Road Signs" on the path of saadhaka and help > > them realize whether they are on the correct path! > > > > However, getting attached to them can also prevent saadhaka to > > remain objective through attachments to the smapradaaya. > > > > Regards, > > > > Dr. Yadu > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Hello All, The Vivekacudamani, attributed to Shankara, makes contradictory statements in regard to the scriptures. The following are some verses from Vivekacudamani that seemingly contradict the verses that were the original subject of this email. 2. For all beings a human birth is difficult to obtain, more so is a male body; rarer than that is Brahmanhood; rarer still is the attachment to the path of Vedic religion; higher than this is erudition in the scriptures; discrimination between the Self and not-Self, Realization, and continuing in a state of identity with Brahman--these come next in order. (This kind of) mukti (liberation) is not to be attained except through the well-earned merits of a hundred crore of births. 3. These are three things which are rare indeed and are due to the grace of God--namely a human birth, the longing for liberation, and the protecting care of a perfected sage. 4. The man who, having by some means obtained a human birth, with a male body and mastery of the Vedas to boot, is foolish enough not to exert himself for self-liberation, verily commits suicide, for he kills himself by clinging to things unreal. 16. An intelligent and learned man skilled in arguing in favor of the scriptures and in refuting counter-arguments against them--one who has got the above characteristics is the fit recipient of the knowledge of the Atman. 25. Acceptance by firm judgment as true of what the scriptures and the Guru instruct, is called by sages Shraddha or faith, by means of which the Reality is perceived. 281. Realizing thyself as the Self of all by means of scripture, reasoning, and thy own realization, do away with thy superimposition, even though a trace of it seems to remain. 282. The sage has no connection whatever with action, since he has no idea of accepting or giving up. Therefore, through constant engrossment on the Brahman, do away with thy superimposition. (Translated by Swami Madhavananda) The preceding verses from the Vivekacudamani praise the virtues of studying the scriptures. These verses seemingly contradict verses 59, 60 and 162 which were the subject of the original email that Harsha sent. Confusion and contradiction are sometimes the result of studying books. Life too is seemingly full of contradictions and awash in paradox. But in spite of the contradictions, scriptures and other classical spiritual literature have no doubt contributed deeply to everyone in this group. They have inspired and guided all of us in varying degrees. Grace and inspiration come in many ways. I neither accept nor reject anything. The human mind cannot even begin to understand the essence and existence of life itSelf. We should not allow the mind to rule our lives because it is so limited. One must transcend the mind, the mental. And the only attribute or requirement that truly facilitates the entrance into the transcendental condition is - DESIRE. If one is possessed by a burning and pure desire for the blessed transcendental ONE then failure is not even a possibility; but without the madness of intense desire one might just as well go shoot dice. Peace and Love, michael _____ [] On Behalf Of Harsha Friday, June 30, 2006 5:58 PM advaitin; H_S Re: Reported Shankara quotation I have written a comment on this on the HS blog titled, "Are Scriptures Useful?" http://www..net/blog/index.html Peter wrote: Hi Dennis, You might look at Vivekacudamani. v59 The study of scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is unknown, and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known. v60 The scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely causes the mind to ramble. Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of the Self. v162 As long as the book-learned man does not give up his identification with the body, organs, etc which are unreal, there is no talk of emancipation for him, even if he be erudite in the Vedanta philosophy. (Translated by Swami Madhavananda) Ramana Maharshi said many similar things which you can find for yourself in 'Talks', but not necessarily both statements in the same sentence. Best wishes, Peter ________________________________ advaitin@ <advaitin%40> s.com [advaitin@ <advaitin%40> s.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Waite 30 June 2006 21:38 advaitin@ <advaitin%40> s.com Reported Shankara quotation Hi All, I have a question regarding a purported quotation of Shankara. Since I became famous (joke!), people are increasingly sending me books on Advaita to review, and hopefully recommend on the website. I have just read a book by a neo-Advaitin teacher (who shall remain nameless for the moment) which has inspired me to write a detailed criticism of their position. I would be very grateful if anyone could clarify the position regarding the following. A questioner claims to be quoting from Shankara when he says: "Study of the scriptures is fruitless as long as Brahman has not been experienced. And when Brahman has been experienced, it is useless to read the scriptures." Obviously, I cannot believe for an instant that Shankara said this but my question is this. Did Shankara make a statement about studying scriptures which has been grossly misrepresented? If so, what was it and where was it made? Or does anyone know who did say it? Best wishes, Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 I truly feel, that for ALL of us, we are remembering something ancient, something experienced but not quite remembered. Else how could anything Be KNOWN? So the question seems to be: how is it remembered, and what is "it" a remembrance of, and if so why do some and others do not? There are stories and there are stories of stories...of remembering and forgetting...the wheel of life and birth... YIL, Ana , Harsha wrote: > > I have written a comment on this on the HS blog titled, "Are Scriptures > Useful?" > > http://www..net/blog/index.html > > > Peter wrote: > > > > Hi Dennis, > > > > You might look at Vivekacudamani. > > > > v59 > > The study of scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is > > unknown, > > and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known. > > > > v60 > > The scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely > > causes the mind to ramble. > > Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of > > the Self. > > > > v162 > > As long as the book-learned man does not give up his identification > > with the > > body, organs, etc which are unreal, > > there is no talk of emancipation for him, even if he be erudite in the > > Vedanta philosophy. > > > > (Translated by Swami Madhavananda) > > > > Ramana Maharshi said many similar things which you can find for > > yourself in > > 'Talks', but not necessarily both statements in the same sentence. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Peter > > ________________________________ > > > > advaitin <advaitin% 40> > > [advaitin <advaitin% 40>] > > On Behalf > > Of Dennis Waite > > 30 June 2006 21:38 > > advaitin <advaitin%40> > > Reported Shankara quotation > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have a question regarding a purported quotation of Shankara. Since I > > became famous (joke!), people are increasingly sending me books on Advaita > > to review, and hopefully recommend on the website. I have just read a book > > by a neo-Advaitin teacher (who shall remain nameless for the moment) which > > has inspired me to write a detailed criticism of their position. I > > would be > > very grateful if anyone could clarify the position regarding the > > following. > > > > A questioner claims to be quoting from Shankara when he says: > > > > "Study of the scriptures is fruitless as long as Brahman has not been > > experienced. And when Brahman has been experienced, it is useless to read > > the scriptures." > > > > Obviously, I cannot believe for an instant that Shankara said this but my > > question is this. Did Shankara make a statement about studying scriptures > > which has been grossly misrepresented? If so, what was it and where was it > > made? Or does anyone know who did say it? > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Dennis > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Yes Alan, it is true. It is useful to realize the consequences of our actions – The sooner the better. Ana, Thanks for your insights. Post 42632 from Ana, Dear Ones, For me, it's been a road of re-discovery. It first comes to me as a question, a 'what if?'. Though it seems on one level, I've known everything, and books or words would fall into my lap or mind, and then the experience arrived to prove what I just read. And sometimes an experience happens, not quite understanding what really occured, I would read something, meet someone or simply, had another experience that confirmed, concretized, solidified the thought that became word that became my experience of life. Well said! Peace and love, michael _____ [] On Behalf Of Alan Sunday, July 09, 2006 4:24 PM SV: Re: Reported Shankara quotation It can be quite useful to know where one does come from, hanging on to it, at best it will be a repetition. I had some pieces of this puzzle , well, it did take a while, but one day I looked again it said: This was for the correction of direction, turn around and move ahead : ) Alan DHAMMAPADA. CHAPTER I. THE TWIN-VERSES. 1. All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him, as the wheel follows the foot of the ox that draws the carriage. -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: [] På vegne av anabebe57 Sendt: 9. juli 2006 19:20 Til: Emne: Re: Reported Shankara quotation I truly feel, that for ALL of us, we are remembering something ancient, something experienced but not quite remembered. Else how could anything Be KNOWN? So the question seems to be: how is it remembered, and what is "it" a remembrance of, and if so why do some and others do not? There are stories and there are stories of stories...of remembering and forgetting...the wheel of life and birth... YIL, Ana , Harsha wrote: > > I have written a comment on this on the HS blog titled, "Are Scriptures > Useful?" > > http://www..net/blog/index.html > > > Peter wrote: > > > > Hi Dennis, > > > > You might look at Vivekacudamani. > > > > v59 > > The study of scriptures is useless so long as the highest Truth is > > unknown, > > and it is equally useless when the highest Truth has already been known. > > > > v60 > > The scriptures consisting of many words are a dense forest which merely > > causes the mind to ramble. > > Hence men of wisdom should earnestly set about knowing the true nature of > > the Self. > > > > v162 > > As long as the book-learned man does not give up his identification > > with the > > body, organs, etc which are unreal, > > there is no talk of emancipation for him, even if he be erudite in the > > Vedanta philosophy. > > > > (Translated by Swami Madhavananda) > > > > Ramana Maharshi said many similar things which you can find for > > yourself in > > 'Talks', but not necessarily both statements in the same sentence. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Peter > > ________________________________ > > > > advaitin <advaitin% 40> > > [advaitin <advaitin% 40>] > > On Behalf > > Of Dennis Waite > > 30 June 2006 21:38 > > advaitin <advaitin%40> > > Reported Shankara quotation > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have a question regarding a purported quotation of Shankara. Since I > > became famous (joke!), people are increasingly sending me books on Advaita > > to review, and hopefully recommend on the website. I have just read a book > > by a neo-Advaitin teacher (who shall remain nameless for the moment) which > > has inspired me to write a detailed criticism of their position. I > > would be > > very grateful if anyone could clarify the position regarding the > > following. > > > > A questioner claims to be quoting from Shankara when he says: > > > > "Study of the scriptures is fruitless as long as Brahman has not been > > experienced. And when Brahman has been experienced, it is useless to read > > the scriptures." > > > > Obviously, I cannot believe for an instant that Shankara said this but my > > question is this. Did Shankara make a statement about studying scriptures > > which has been grossly misrepresented? If so, what was it and where was it > > made? Or does anyone know who did say it? > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Dennis > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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