Guest guest Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 G. Gita vs 101 and 102 - Isvara continues his discourse to Parvati "Oh Great Goddess, whoever spreads or listens to gossip about the Guru will remain in the deepest conflict as long as the moon and sun shine. So long as the body may remain, remember your Guru as a worshipful God. Do not give up on the Guru, even if he moves according to his own rhythm." B. Gita Chap 2 vs 4 and 5 Arjuna (Clarity of Pure Devotion) asks of Krsna – "Slayer of Too Much (Krsna), how shall I engage Who Knows no Fear and Who injures his foes with Weapons in armed confrontation? They are both worthy of adoration oh Destroyer of Enemies. Rather than slaying Gurus of such great feelings, it is better to enjoy begging in this world. With the slaying of Gurus, I understand that all desires and objects of enjoyment will be stained with blood," In an earlier posts Swamiji had advised to read Chap 12 of the Chandi to overcome any such difficulty and vs 8 of that Chap Beloved Goddess says "This presentation of my glories, the Great Destroyer of all disturbances, will bring peace to the three-fold nature of confusion (physical, mental, vital: or myself, others and acts of God)." Please share your thoughts. Jai Guru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 The two verses you had written, the first says never do anything against a Guru as the consequences are very bad... but the second verse literally asks Krishna a way out of the first verse since Arujuna has to fight and kill his Gurus - and if i am not wrong Krishna gives him advice on how to do it... i would love to know more on your understanding of these two verses as they seem to be contradict each other in the results they seek ? especially questions like - is there a Guru hiearachy? if Krishna is Arjuna's guru now, then on His advice can he go against his previous Gurus like Drona? do we need a better Guru to go against a Guru we are in conflict with without dire consequences? or the verse from the Guru Gita just states a well known fact that if you are in conflict with anyone even the person who means you harm your mind is in turmoil and you suffer - its a general observation retold for the Guru Gita putting Guru in it when it could be anyone... and Arjuna was trying to get out of a tough situation by emotionally stating rules to suit his purpose - everyone does that - emotionally stating highly ethical statements to suit our purposes... can anything done to a Guru result in anything but good - but then the question who is this Guru - the person who teaches or advices or leads - the sense of wonder in us which wants to expand as for me if the later leads me into conflict with the former its ok but I will never give up the later for anything - if I do I am lost ? Jai Sri Ramakrishna! , "kaliananda_saraswati" <kaliananda_saraswati wrote: > > G. Gita vs 101 and 102 - Isvara continues his discourse to Parvati > > "Oh Great Goddess, whoever spreads or listens to gossip about the Guru will remain in the > deepest conflict as long as the moon and sun shine. > So long as the body may remain, remember your Guru as a worshipful God. Do not give > up on the Guru, even if he moves according to his own rhythm." > > B. Gita Chap 2 vs 4 and 5 Arjuna (Clarity of Pure Devotion) asks of Krsna – > > "Slayer of Too Much (Krsna), how shall I engage Who Knows no Fear and Who injures his > foes with Weapons in armed confrontation? They are both worthy of adoration oh > Destroyer of Enemies. > Rather than slaying Gurus of such great feelings, it is better to enjoy begging in this > world. With the slaying of Gurus, I understand that all desires and objects of enjoyment > will be stained with blood," > > In an earlier posts Swamiji had advised to read Chap 12 of the Chandi to overcome any > such difficulty and vs 8 of that Chap Beloved Goddess says "This presentation of my > glories, the Great Destroyer of all disturbances, will bring peace to the three-fold nature of > confusion (physical, mental, vital: or myself, others and acts of God)." > > Please share your thoughts. > > Jai Guru > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Thank you for responding. The purpose of using these two text is for the sole purpose of showing that even attained beings seek guidance from the Guru. In physical life we have many teachers, the first being our earth Mother. This existence is a learning experience and whether external or internal, guidance is needed. Jai Guru , "n_mallan" <n_mallan wrote: > > > The two verses you had written, > > the first says never do anything against a Guru as the consequences are > very bad... > > but the second verse literally asks Krishna a way out of the first verse > since Arujuna has to fight and kill his Gurus - and if i am not wrong > Krishna gives him advice on how to do it... > > i would love to know more on your understanding of these two verses as > they seem to be contradict each other in the results they seek ? > > especially questions like - is there a Guru hiearachy? if Krishna is > Arjuna's guru now, then on His advice can he go against his previous > Gurus like Drona? do we need a better Guru to go against a Guru we are > in conflict with without dire consequences? > > or the verse from the Guru Gita just states a well known fact that if > you are in conflict with anyone even the person who means you harm your > mind is in turmoil and you suffer - its a general observation retold for > the Guru Gita putting Guru in it when it could be anyone... > > and Arjuna was trying to get out of a tough situation by emotionally > stating rules to suit his purpose - everyone does that - emotionally > stating highly ethical statements to suit our purposes... > > can anything done to a Guru result in anything but good - but then the > question who is this Guru - the person who teaches or advices or leads > - the sense of wonder in us which wants to expand > as for me if the later leads me into conflict with the former its ok but > I will never give up the later for anything - if I do I am lost ? > > Jai Sri Ramakrishna! > > , "kaliananda_saraswati" > <kaliananda_saraswati@> wrote: > > > > G. Gita vs 101 and 102 - Isvara continues his discourse to Parvati > > > > "Oh Great Goddess, whoever spreads or listens to gossip about the Guru > will remain in the > > deepest conflict as long as the moon and sun shine. > > So long as the body may remain, remember your Guru as a worshipful > God. Do not give > > up on the Guru, even if he moves according to his own rhythm." > > > > B. Gita Chap 2 vs 4 and 5 Arjuna (Clarity of Pure Devotion) asks of > Krsna – > > > > "Slayer of Too Much (Krsna), how shall I engage Who Knows no Fear and > Who injures his > > foes with Weapons in armed confrontation? They are both worthy of > adoration oh > > Destroyer of Enemies. > > Rather than slaying Gurus of such great feelings, it is better to > enjoy begging in this > > world. With the slaying of Gurus, I understand that all desires and > objects of enjoyment > > will be stained with blood," > > > > In an earlier posts Swamiji had advised to read Chap 12 of the Chandi > to overcome any > > such difficulty and vs 8 of that Chap Beloved Goddess says "This > presentation of my > > glories, the Great Destroyer of all disturbances, will bring peace to > the three-fold nature of > > confusion (physical, mental, vital: or myself, others and acts of > God)." > > > > Please share your thoughts. > > > > Jai Guru > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Dear all, It is mentioned in Mahabhararta that Yudhistar, the eldest Pandav, before starting war went to enemy army and bowed before Bhishama Pitamaha (Great gand father of the family), Dronacharya (their teacher or Guru for learning warfare), Kripacharya (their Kulguru) touching their feet to seek their blessings and ask for their permission to fight this Dharma Yudh (Dharmic war). Each one of them not only blessed him with victory but also advised him that when war starts he and all Pandavas should forget all other relationships and fight them as the opposing enemy. Dronacharya was their Guru at physical level and taught them how to use arms, whereas Krishna was a spititual Guru teaching them what is right and wrong and what is beneficial for their spiritual good. A spiritual guide is far superior to any other guide and he alone is considered as an embodiment of God Himself. Regards Chetan Chetan Merani Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Thank you for this very inspiring and timely reminder. Pranams to Beloved Guru. , Chetan Merani <cvmerani wrote: > > Dear all, > It is mentioned in Mahabhararta that Yudhistar, the eldest Pandav, before starting war went to enemy army and bowed before Bhishama Pitamaha (Great gand father of the family), Dronacharya (their teacher or Guru for learning warfare), Kripacharya (their Kulguru) touching their feet to seek their blessings and ask for their permission to fight this Dharma Yudh (Dharmic war). Each one of them not only blessed him with victory but also advised him that when war starts he and all Pandavas should forget all other relationships and fight them as the opposing enemy. Dronacharya was their Guru at physical level and taught them how to use arms, whereas Krishna was a spititual Guru teaching them what is right and wrong and what is beneficial for their spiritual good. A spiritual guide is far superior to any other guide and he alone is considered as an embodiment of God Himself. > Regards > Chetan > > > Chetan Merani > > > > Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 I wholeheartedly agree - my post was intended only if the understanding arose out of a sense of fear. fear - hidden or unfinished desires only a deep longing for liberation at any cost(mumuksha) - a perfect disciple when one approaches in fear he will be taken advantage of and fall prey to charlatans, whereas anything done to true Guru will only push one forward - then why emphasize the negative (Guru Gita Vs 101 & 102)... Jai Sri Ramakrishna! , "kaliananda_saraswati" <kaliananda_saraswati wrote: > > Thank you for responding. The purpose of using these two text is > for the sole purpose of showing that even attained beings seek > guidance from the Guru. In physical life we have many teachers, the > first being our earth Mother. This existence is a learning > experience and whether external or internal, guidance is needed. > > Jai Guru > > > , "n_mallan" n_mallan@ wrote: > > > > > > The two verses you had written, > > > > the first says never do anything against a Guru as the > consequences are > > very bad... > > > > but the second verse literally asks Krishna a way out of the first > verse > > since Arujuna has to fight and kill his Gurus - and if i am not > wrong > > Krishna gives him advice on how to do it... > > > > i would love to know more on your understanding of these two > verses as > > they seem to be contradict each other in the results they seek ? > > > > especially questions like - is there a Guru hiearachy? if Krishna > is > > Arjuna's guru now, then on His advice can he go against his > previous > > Gurus like Drona? do we need a better Guru to go against a Guru we > are > > in conflict with without dire consequences? > > > > or the verse from the Guru Gita just states a well known fact that > if > > you are in conflict with anyone even the person who means you harm > your > > mind is in turmoil and you suffer - its a general observation > retold for > > the Guru Gita putting Guru in it when it could be anyone... > > > > and Arjuna was trying to get out of a tough situation by > emotionally > > stating rules to suit his purpose - everyone does that - > emotionally > > stating highly ethical statements to suit our purposes... > > > > can anything done to a Guru result in anything but good - but then > the > > question who is this Guru - the person who teaches or advices or > leads > > - the sense of wonder in us which wants to expand > > as for me if the later leads me into conflict with the former its > ok but > > I will never give up the later for anything - if I do I am lost ? > > > > Jai Sri Ramakrishna! > > > > , "kaliananda_saraswati" > > <kaliananda_saraswati@> wrote: > > > > > > G. Gita vs 101 and 102 - Isvara continues his discourse to > Parvati > > > > > > "Oh Great Goddess, whoever spreads or listens to gossip about > the Guru > > will remain in the > > > deepest conflict as long as the moon and sun shine. > > > So long as the body may remain, remember your Guru as a > worshipful > > God. Do not give > > > up on the Guru, even if he moves according to his own rhythm." > > > > > > B. Gita Chap 2 vs 4 and 5 Arjuna (Clarity of Pure Devotion) > asks of > > Krsna – > > > > > > "Slayer of Too Much (Krsna), how shall I engage Who Knows no > Fear and > > Who injures his > > > foes with Weapons in armed confrontation? They are both worthy > of > > adoration oh > > > Destroyer of Enemies. > > > Rather than slaying Gurus of such great feelings, it is better to > > enjoy begging in this > > > world. With the slaying of Gurus, I understand that all desires > and > > objects of enjoyment > > > will be stained with blood," > > > > > > In an earlier posts Swamiji had advised to read Chap 12 of the > Chandi > > to overcome any > > > such difficulty and vs 8 of that Chap Beloved Goddess says "This > > presentation of my > > > glories, the Great Destroyer of all disturbances, will bring > peace to > > the three-fold nature of > > > confusion (physical, mental, vital: or myself, others and acts of > > God)." > > > > > > Please share your thoughts. > > > > > > Jai Guru > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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