dogma

[Guest guest]

are it only me or are many vaisnava aspirants here very strict, and dogmatic in there views? many answeres here are very non-loveing i think.. always thinking of maya this and maya that and offences this and offences that distracts the mind from God and makes one think more bout offences and maya more then God.. try to live simple and humble, try to be nice to all because God is in all and try to please God and then all will be well, this is what i think....

 

dogmatic thinking is very dull form of worship i think, more love and more happyness.. God doesnt whant us to be like dead trees but joyous happy children, like the gopas playing with God.. not like strict boring monks sitting and haveing philosofical thaughts all day long.. nothing wrong with that but in my opinion its boring service to God.. be more like gopas and gopis..

 

with love, zamael aka Govinda das

[raga]

Harshness and lack of love arise when there is strictness and orthodoxy without realization -- it lacks life, and hearts are not touched.

 

Broad-mindedness, liberality and an outer abundance of love, while pleasant, do not stand to benefit the sadhaka in want of orthodoxy and strictness.

 

When orthodoxy and strictness are combined with diligent devotional practice and the good wishes of the saints, all sincere aspirants stand to be benefited in such company.

[Guest guest]

 

are it only me or are many vaisnava aspirants here very strict, and dogmatic in there views? many answeres here are very non-loveing i think.. always thinking of maya this and maya that and offences this and offences that distracts the mind from God and makes one think more bout offences and maya more then God.. try to live simple and humble, try to be nice to all because God is in all and try to please God and then all will be well, this is what i think....

 

dogmatic thinking is very dull form of worship i think, more love and more happyness.. God doesnt whant us to be like dead trees but joyous happy children, like the gopas playing with God.. not like strict boring monks sitting and haveing philosofical thaughts all day long.. nothing wrong with that but in my opinion its boring service to God.. be more like gopas and gopis..

 

with love, zamael aka Govinda das

 

When a mother sees that her child is about to drink poison, is it "loving" to "be nice" to the child by letting it drink the poison?

 

Or should the loving mother be "strict" and stop the child from drinking poison? Should she be "dogmatic" with her idea that poison is bad for her child?

 

A child may think life is "dull" if he cannot drink poison, but the loving mother wants the child to grow and flourish.

 

There is a lot of poison being offered in the name of Gaudiya Vaishnavism today. Sometimes a loving Vaishnava must speak out against this, for the safety of the innocent.

[Beggar]

 

There is a lot of poison being offered in the name of Gaudiya Vaishnavism today. Sometimes a loving Vaishnava must speak out against this, for the safety of the innocent.

Yes but this assumes that the "innocent" will be able to detect and feel the love behind the warnings or chastisement. Generally a "guru" or one who is filled with divine love is the only one who can do this. But what we see here, and especially in the campaign against Narayana Maharaja is persons with a lower adhikara, not filled with divine love, venting the negativity in their material minds and hearts onto the followers of other gurus. Who can detect the "love", if its not there? And what about those devotees who are neutral or haven't yet made up their minds? Some are becoming so dismayed by these "anti-campaigns" that they are now struggling to maintain faith in any brand of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Gaudiya Vaisnava organizations are no longer confined by the walls of their temples, or even the printing press. The internet revolution allows almost anyone to publish anything, anywhere. If Gaudiya Vaisnavism is to begin to once again appear relevant to the general public, the constant infighting and bickering must stop. Unfortunately some who live in the internet age and think in the printing press age are not seeing the changing environment, and still use us and them, to control their neophyte followers. In the long run they will learn this is a strategy can can no longer work in an era when so many can instantly share their views. How much spiritual distruction will be wreaked by them in the mean time?

[raga]

"Fire at will" is the principle for all, young and old alike.

[Guest guest]

 

"Fire at will" is the principle for all, young and old alike.

 

Two wrongs don't make one right.

[raga]

 

Two wrongs don't make one right.

I realize that, but the principle seems to be deeply engrained in the back-bone of the Gaudiya Math. Then, "compromising" with "heritics" is frequently seen as "watering down" or "faithlessness".

[Guest guest]

I think it is much more balanced to say that neophytes from all faith traditions have a need to 'support' their faith by trampling on the faith of others. Or - that trying to 'prove' the falsity of others faith is a need of those with weak faith to support their fragile belief.

 

At any rate better to practice with sincerity and honor the hearts of others. That doesn't mean that one has to compromise their own cherished goal or 'water down' the teachings they recieved from their gurus. It just means that they can allow for diversity and honor the hearts of others and the teachings they recieved without having to embrace those teachings as their own.

[raga]

 

I think it is much more balanced to say that neophytes from all faith traditions have a need to 'support' their faith by trampling on the faith of others. Or - that trying to 'prove' the falsity of others faith is a need of those with weak faith to support their fragile belief.

That certainly is a global phenomenom, but you cannot deny that it isn't particularly pointed in the rather exclusive and confrontational style of the Gaudiya Math ("war against illusion and all forms of false religion", "we are born haters of the sahajiyas" etc.). If we are looking at this in the specific context of Gaudiya Vaisnavism (as I understood the earlier poster wished to), I cannot see how one could escape this.

[Guest guest]

hate only shows that one is in maya and far from God.. to hate sahajiyas for example shos that one is far from God.. i rest my case

[Guest guest]

 

hate only shows that one is in maya and far from God.. to hate sahajiyas for example shos that one is far from God.. i rest my case

 

Thank you for the wise perspective. Indeed, Lord Narasimhadeva was obviously in maya, and should have been broad-minded enough to allow Hiranyakasipu to practice his chosen spiritual path.

[Guest guest]

so Hiranyakasipu was a sahajiya? so thats why he was killed? not for tormenting the universe etc? also forgive my ignorance because i have never heard about sahajiyas before..

[Guest guest]

Some of the posts on these Vaishnava forums, you wouldn't know if they were written by a Southern Baptist, Jehovah's Witness, or a Vaishnava. They have that stereotypical self-righteous, fundamentalist tone, that always cloaks itself in holier-than thou religiousity - whether that religion be Christianity, Islam or an eastern religion.

 

The Gita is nothing like the fundementalism that we see pop up on some of these forums. It's the least fundamentalist book in the world. No fundamentalist would state that God says: "in whatever form the Devotee approaches me, I strengthen their faith in that form". They will tell you to worship their way, or your doomed.

 

Krishna is supremely patient, tolerant, compassionate, and loving. So a Vaishnava should be the same.

[Guest guest]

 

Some of the posts on these Vaishnava forums, you wouldn't know if they were written by a Southern Baptist, Jehovah's Witness, or a Vaishnava. They have that stereotypical self-righteous, fundamentalist tone, that always cloaks itself in holier-than thou religiousity - whether that religion be Christianity, Islam or an eastern religion.

 

The Gita is nothing like the fundementalism that we see pop up on some of these forums. It's the least fundamentalist book in the world. No fundamentalist would state that God says: "in whatever form the Devotee approaches me, I strengthen their faith in that form". They will tell you to worship their way, or your doomed.

 

Krishna is supremely patient, tolerant, compassionate, and loving. So a Vaishnava should be the same.

 

this is my view also, God accept whatever path we tread..

[Guest guest]

 

Some of the posts on these Vaishnava forums, you wouldn't know if they were written by a Southern Baptist, Jehovah's Witness, or a Vaishnava. They have that stereotypical self-righteous, fundamentalist tone, that always cloaks itself in holier-than thou religiousity - whether that religion be Christianity, Islam or an eastern religion.

 

The Gita is nothing like the fundementalism that we see pop up on some of these forums. It's the least fundamentalist book in the world. No fundamentalist would state that God says: "in whatever form the Devotee approaches me, I strengthen their faith in that form". They will tell you to worship their way, or your doomed.

 

Krishna is supremely patient, tolerant, compassionate, and loving. So a Vaishnava should be the same.

 

Indeed, a vaishnava is patient, tolerant, compassionate, and loving. But he is also firm. Like a mother gently taking away a cup of poison from the hand of her reluctant child. But what have we here: is that an unkind picture of Southerners, Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses AND Vaisnavas painted here? I thought we were supposed to honor ALL paths, not be hypocrits about it. "Let them follow their faith, but look how ridiculous they are". No really. This is unkind of whoever wrote it.

[Guest guest]

 

Indeed, a vaishnava is patient, tolerant, compassionate, and loving. But he is also firm. Like a mother gently taking away a cup of poison from the hand of her reluctant child. But what have we here: is that an unkind picture of Southerners, Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses AND Vaisnavas painted here? I thought we were supposed to honor ALL paths, not be hypocrits about it. "Let them follow their faith, but look how ridiculous they are". No really. This is unkind of whoever wrote it.

 

Jehovah's Witness teach that their religion is the only path to the New earth. All others are said to be annihilated. Southern baptists teach only fundamentalist Christians can be saved, and all others will go to an eternal hell. Thus the comparision, with Gaudiyas who act in a similar exclusivist manner, by stating their path alone is the path to moksha.

[Guest guest]

I am glad that this come up in the conversation. Just now I finished a nice conversation with my neighbour who is a Jehovah's Witness. I have lived here now for 12 months and I am sure the neighbours hear the loud chants of Jaya Nityananda! Jaya Gauranga! with karatalas loudly beating.

 

We discussed many things today and did not go into dogma or difference. I wish this spirit soul neighbour all the best on his journey; with courtesy and respect they are also offering me warmth and welcome in the neighbourhood. It is kinda fun living next door to him, more of it please! With the scope of eternity I am sure we will all be free of obstacles and that kind of stuff oneday. Until then why not just try and nurture love and respect.

[Guest guest]

the religious path arent exclusive, its the relationship one has with God that is specialand how one act towards others.. many here has made me see that that arent any special with the vaisnava path, they are dogmatic, fundamental and have a bad view on other peoples path to God, but this is only a internet forum and i hope people here are more tolerant and loving irl then u guys are here! and yes i know that a LOT will wright to this and say how wrong i am etc etc..

 

but if one look at the most threads here, they are badmouthing others, having bad view on gays people, muslims, christians etc.. not much tolerant or loving at all! if on wright the wrong thing many will tell him how bad he/she is and that they are ignorant etc.. i know that many here, often unreg. people have told me how bad i am etc because i protect muslims etc, i have been called a cow murderer etc hence im a strict vegetarian! if non-devoutees see the threads here they will have a bad view on vaisnavaism and hare krsna also! so grow up and start getting more tolerant unto others soon..

[raga]

 

but if one look at the most threads here, they are badmouthing others, having bad view on gays people, muslims, christians etc.. not much tolerant or loving at all! if on wright the wrong thing many will tell him how bad he/she is and that they are ignorant etc.. i know that many here, often unreg. people have told me how bad i am etc because i protect muslims etc, i have been called a cow murderer etc hence im a strict vegetarian! if non-devoutees see the threads here they will have a bad view on vaisnavaism and hare krsna also! so grow up and start getting more tolerant unto others soon..

Unregistered or anonymous users badmouthing others is a common internet phenomenom. They are known as trolls. You can only really draw conclusions about religious denominations or any other groups on the basis of people who are forthcoming in identifying themselves. I personally believe that many trolls are as much victims as they are guilty; the Internet has offered their minds an outlet previously unseen, captivated them.

 

Aside that, particular atmospheres attract particular kinds of people. If one is to assess the efficacy of Gaudiya Vaisnavism as a faith, one would do well to spend time personally with committed practitioners, observe their lives, attitudes and religious practices. Now, of course many don't do this, but judge on the basis of internet presence. That is unfortunate, and I believe a lot of it has to do with the immaturity of the medium itself.

[Guest guest]

thats true, but still many will have a bad view thnX to "trolls".. i visit the sthlm temple as often i can and there i see what i know as devoutees, whom are loving, tolerant and humble.. thats vaisnavas.. the loving and serving atmosphere of ashram and temple! rudness etc to others only show that one is not far advanced in ones journey to God.. rather to accept all and let people walk there path without telling them with harsh words is rather more signs of advancment.. in my view..

[Guest guest]

this is a good quote, dont know from whom:

 

"God is like the sunlight that falls through the window of a church which has many colourful pieces of glass in it. And the light throws spots of colourful lights on the floor of a very very large church. And the small people who stand there they only see one colour, which depends on where they stand. So one sees God as a green light and the other one as a red light while no one sees the whole picture. I do like this parable and I set some store by it. So if you think you have to believe in God then at least, I think you should not trust anyone who says that God is like this and everything else is wrong and bad. And especially not if they are so picky about unimportant details that they do not even allow other Christian religions."

[Guest guest]

 

If one is to assess the efficacy of Gaudiya Vaisnavism as a faith, one would do well to spend time personally with committed practitioners, observe their lives, attitudes and religious practices. Now, of course many don't do this, but judge on the basis of internet presence. That is unfortunate, and I believe a lot of it has to do with the immaturity of the medium itself.

 

Very well spoken Madhavananda. I would go a step further and make the assertion that unless and until one makes the actual physical acquaintace of committed practioners, one will not know Gaudiya Vaisnavism proper. Of the faith, this practice is the soul.

[raga]

Yes, with personally I meant physically. Written and recorded media are nowhere as fit carriers of spiritual impact as personal meeting. To be in the proximity of a devotee filled with svarupa-sakti on virtue of his practice is powerful indeed, it is hard to escape the halo.

[Guest guest]

 

I am glad that this come up in the conversation. Just now I finished a nice conversation with my neighbour who is a Jehovah's Witness. I have lived here now for 12 months and I am sure the neighbours hear the loud chants of Jaya Nityananda! Jaya Gauranga! with karatalas loudly beating.

 

We discussed many things today and did not go into dogma or difference. I wish this spirit soul neighbour all the best on his journey; with courtesy and respect they are also offering me warmth and welcome in the neighbourhood. It is kinda fun living next door to him, more of it please! With the scope of eternity I am sure we will all be free of obstacles and that kind of stuff oneday. Until then why not just try and nurture love and respect.

 

Jehovah's witness tend to be more level-headed than some. For one, they do not believe in hell, they believe souls just cease to exist if they don't join their religion - so they are not all crazy-eyed, telling everyone they will burn in an eternal hell. They are very big into trying to get converts though.

 

I've had the same 2 Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door 3 times in the past 2 months. They either think I am a really lost soul who needs a lot of attention, or someone who would make a great Witness if they could just convert me.

 

When they come to your door, it is a good chance to dialogue about our Vedic perspective - so I am willing to talk about spiritual philosophy with them, rather than just slam the door in their face, like they do at most houses.

[Guest guest]

and how is the vaisnava faith? doesnt the most vaisnavas see that the only way to God is through vaisnavaism? and other faiths are man-made!? the thing other think about other faiths, they usally do them self.. many think that: "they are so ignorant that they think one is lost if one dont convert to there religion" AND they do the same later.. prabhupada didnt have anything agaisnt different faiths, on the contrarary he accepted other faiths, so why do not the nowadays hare krsna people do the same!?