Udayananda's Tripurari Swami article from Chakra

[Guest guest]

<font color=#666699>More of the same old arguments from another source.</font>

 

Tripurari Swami

by Udayananda dasa ACBSP

Posted July 6, 2006

 

To whom it may concern,

 

I offer my respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who is very dear to Lord Krishna, having taken shelter at His lotus feet.

 

Our respectful obeisances are unto you, O spiritual master, servant of Sarasvati Goswami. You are kindly preaching the message of Lord Caitanyadeva and delivering the Western countries, which are filled with impersonalism and voidism.

 

I have been asked to address an unpleasant situation that has recently come to a disturbing head. Over the years I have been made privy to information which is less than pleasant and may be disturbing to the minds of loving followers, disciples and grand-disciples, of His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada. I am specifically speaking about one of our Godbrother who left Srila Prabhupada's movement many years ago to start his own movement. I am referring to Tripurari Swami who recently performed an initiation ceremony in North Carolina, which took people, being cultivated by Iskcon devotees to his own society known as the Gaudiya Vaisnava Society.

 

I have known Tripurari Maharaja for many years, and was pleased to have distributed Srila Prabhupada's books with him on occasion at the Chicago O'Hare airport back in 1974. Distributing Srila Prabhupada's books and inspiring others to do so was Maharaja's claim to fame. On more than one occasion, Srila Prabhupada stated that if you wanted to please me in the best way, PLEASE distribute my books. I joined Krsna Consciousness with my best friend Pragosha dasa, and for many years distributed Srila Prabhupada's books. As a matter of fact, Praghosa dasa is in New York City and still is engaged in book distribution, at the age of 53. Back in the 70's we shared great appreciation for the service Tripurari Swami performed for Srila Prabhupada.

 

Then in the 80's Tripurari Swami left the Iskcon mission and became involved with various Gaudiya Math leaders. Srila Prabhupada had directly warned us NOT to associate with his Godbrothers, "If they say one thing differently, your whole spiritual life will be spoiled."

 

In Sridhara Maharaja's own admission he stated, "Me and Swamiji (our Prabhupada) we do not see eye to eye on all things."

 

After hearing such a statement, why would any follower of Srila Prabhupada want to hear even another word from this person. Respectful obeisances should be offered, then out the door, never to return.

 

Srila Prabhupada instructed time and again to simply hear from HIM, and repeat without any addition or alteration. "This is guru. You haven't got to learn very much. You simply repeat like parrot what Krsna has said everything in the Bhagavad-gita. You learn Bhagavad-gita, and you repeat that. You become guru. This is guru. So sometimes people give me very much credit that I have done wonderful throughout the whole world. But I do not know that I am wonderful man. But I know one thing, that I am speaking what Krsna has spoken. That's all. I am NOT making any ADDITION, ALTERATION." Srila Prabhupada's lecture San Francisco 7/15/75.

 

Then in another place Srila Prabhupada said, "Don't make ADDITION, ALTERATION. Then you become guru. Very simple thing. If I say that "My father said, This is a bell," I am correct because I have learned it from my father, authority. I may be fool, rascal. It doesn't matter. But because I have learned it from the authority and presenting it that "This is a bell," this is perfect. Similarly, I cannot become guru because I am imperfect. My senses are imperfect. I cannot see even what is beyond this wall, although I am very proud of my eyes. I want to see. What can you see? Imperfect, all senses. But if some authority says that "Beyond this wall this is the..., like this," it is all right. So we have to follow this path, that you become guru, deliver your neighborhood men, associates, but speak the authoritative words of Krsna. Then it will act. So our, this Krsna Consciousness movement is like that. WE DO NOT MANUFACTURE IDEAS. That has spoiled the whole world." Darshan Hrishikesh, India 5/11/77.

 

I have a tape conversation between Tripurari Swami and Krsna Balarama Swami in which the following statement is made by Tripurari Swami: "Prabhupada said things according to time and circumstance, Sridhara Maharaja saying this way according to time and circumstance and I, another way according to time and circumstance. I can draw from Prabhupada how he applied in certain circumstances and I can see how Sridhara Maharaja did and I can come up with a synthesis, a third idea, based on scripture of what they had done. You become like a grown-up. It is one thing you follow the father as a child, it is very cute and everyone likes it. You put on the father's coat, even though it's too big. Then you put on his shoes, "isn't it cute, he wants to follow his Dad." But if it goes on his whole life, you're nuts! The father hopes you are going to grow up and add to the business. Maybe bring in and add a new product, you know. Hmmm, further the market whatever that is. So that is what I am here. I write books, this is mostly what I do." Tripurari Swami discussion with Krsna Balarama Swami 1995.

 

Tripurari Swami may say he takes a little from Srila Prabhupada, and a little from Sridhara Swami and then adds a little himself to give us what he refers to as "adding a new product". What does Srila Prabhupada say in response to this thinking, "From now on unless I order you do something change or in addition, go on with the usual standard way. You manufacture ideas and then I have to waste my time. I have given you everything already, there is no need for you to add anything or change anything. The greatest danger to our movement will come when we manufacture and create our own process." Letter from Srila Prabhupada to Dhruvananda Bombay 1/4/73.

 

Later in Philadelphia Srila Prabhupada elaborated on this point, "Devotee: My only wish is that my mind be purified by the words coming from the mouth of my spiritual master. I have no other desire but this." Prabhupada: Yes. This is the order. Guru-mukha-padma- vakya, cittete koriya aikya. Now citta means consciousness or heart. "I shall do this only, bas. My Guru Maharaja told me; I shall do this." Cittete koriya aikya, ar na koriho mane asa. So it is not my pride, but I can say, for your instruction, I DID IT. Therefore whatever little success you see than my, all my Godbrothers, it is due to this. I have no capacity, but I took it, the words of my guru, as life and soul. So this is fact. Guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya. Everyone should do that. But if he makes addition, alteration, THEN HE IS FINISHED. No addition, alteration. You have to approach guru,guru means the faithful servant of God, Krsna- and take his word how to serve Him. Then you are successful. If you concoct, "I am very intelligent than my guru, and I can make addition or alteration," THEN YOU ARE FINISHED." Lecture SB- 6-1-26, Philadelphia 7/12/75.

 

As far as taking the position of Spiritual Master, Srila Prabhupada spoke very emphatically how we should embrace that position, "So all my students present here who are feeling so much obliged...I am also obliged to them because they are helping me in this missionary work. At the same time, I shall request them all to become spiritual master. Every one of you should be spiritual master next. And what is their duty? Whatever you are hearing from ME, whatever you are learning from ME, you have to distribute the same in toto without any addition or alteration. Then all of you become the spiritual master. That is the science of becoming spiritual master." Sri Vyas Puja-Hamburg, 9/5/69.

 

In the same conversation Tripurari Swami states, "People say, "He's (Tripurari) not distributing any books. Why isn't he out there? Things are different. I'm 46 years old now. I can write my own books now." Tripurari Swami and Krsna Balarama Swami conversation 1995.

 

This of course is a great and sad tragedy. The very thing that made Tripurari Swami appreciated and respected by all the devotees, that very service that gave Srila Prabhupada so much transcendental pleasure, he has whimsically renounced for his own concocted program. Srila Prabhupada wrote, "My dear Rameswara, Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge your letter of May 29th, and I have examined the contents. You have written to recommend Tripurari for sannyasi. Tripurari is however already a brahmachari so in essence there is no difference between brahmachari. I have asked Tripurari to dedicate his LIFE to distributing MY BOOKS and he has turned out the most expert of all our sellers." Letter to Ramesvara 6/5/74.

 

This was a very specific instruction given by His Divine Grace that he is giving up. What a great loss for Tripurari Swami to be given such mercy from the Jagat Guru, a specific instruction of how he should dedicate his entire life. Instead he has invented a different program to dedicate his life. Srila Prabhupada said, "So bhaktya anuvrtya. Anuvrtya means following. Not that I have become more than my guru, I can invent something. No. Bhakti means, sädhu-marganugamanam. You have to follow the sädhu, the acarya. That is Bhakti. Bhakti does not mean that I am so learned I can manufacture something. That is rascal. Not that at a point you become suddenly very learned scholar, and you do not remain a servant, but you want to become a master, to dictate the guru. That is rascal. That will not help us." SB 5-5-14 Vrndavana 11/2/76. Further Srila Prabhupada states, "To honor the spiritual master means to carry out his instructions WORD FOR WORD." SB purport 3-24-12.

 

So Tripurari Maharaja gave up the distribution of the transcendental devotional ecstasies of Srila Prabhupada for what? As he put it, he can write his own books. So I went to Barnes and Noble and picked up a copy of one of his books. It was called Aesthetic Vedanta. I was shocked. I will give you a couple of excerpts from the book, but I will forewarn you that as followers of Srila Prabhupada the descriptions of the madhurya-lila of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in this fashion is disgusting. But without further ado I will let the writing speak for itself. On the inside cover jacket Tripurari Swami writes, "Aesthetic Vedanta illuminates the classic Sanskrit poem, rasa-lila, the sacred love affair of the Hindu deities Radha and Krsna. Interspersed with original poetry and renderings of the medieval verse of several Hindu mystics, this book reveals the means to access the spiritual reality of India's EROTIC mysticism....In the rasa-lila, Godhead enters humanity to celebrate his sensuality, thus confirming the feeling in all of us that our drive for the EROTIC is not something to be abolished." Aesthetic Vedanta Tripurari Swami Cover jacket.

 

On page 84 of the same book, Tripurari Swami writes, "Krsna stretched out his arms and embraced the gopis. He further aroused their passion and enjoyed with them by touching their hands, hair, thighs, belts, and breasts, as well as by playfully scratching them with his fingernails, joking with them, laughing with them, and glancing at them. In this way, he engaged in erotic sport with them as prescribed in the KAMA-SUTRA." Aesthetic Vedanta Tripurari Swami.

 

First of all, what in the world is he doing writing about the rasa-lila to the general public, all engaged in the most heinous and abominable activities imagined. Secondly why would you describe to the general mass of devotees and/or non-devotees such touching by our Supreme Lord to such private parts of the gopis bodies. And finally how dare Maharaja describe the most intimate, exalted and internal pastime of the adi-purusam with the most pure and elevated eternally perfected living beings in the Spiritual Sky, as following the KAMA-SUTRA!!!! THE KAMA-SUTRA??!!!!

 

I went back to the same Barnes and Noble that I had purchased the Aesthetic Vedanta at and inquired at information if they had any copies of the KAMA-SUTRA in stock. The gentlemen showed me where they would be, and I found 3 different versions. All with complete photography of EROTIC positions. In other words, for all practical purposes, PORNOGRAPHY! I then over the next week did a survey of probably 30 non-devotees that had heard of the KAMA-SUTRA and asked them to define in their own words what the KAMA-SUTRA was. Without an exception they said, "The KAMA-SUTRA is an elaborate sex manual from India."

 

To top it off, Tripurari Swami has the following endorsement on the back of the cover jacket, "Aesthetic Vedanta recounts India's most important treatise on romantic love. More practical and interesting than the KAMA-SUTRA, it involves the classic adventure of the fabulous Krishna. Swami Tripurari's treatment is a masterpiece." Louis Meldman author of Mystical Sex: Love, Ecstasy, and the Mystical Experience.

 

I search and found Louis Meldman's book also at Barnes and Noble, and sure enough this was a sex manual.

 

So what does Srila Prabhupada say in this regard? Here is simply a few of the many statements made by His Divine Grace, "The hladini potency is Krsna's pleasure potency. All living entities have this pleasure seeking potency, for all beings are trying to have pleasure. This is the very nature of the living entity. At present we are trying to enjoy our pleasure potency by means of the body in the material condition. By bodily contact we are attempting to derive pleasure from material sense objects. But we should not entertain the nonsensical idea that Krsna, who is always spiritual, also tries to seek pleasure on this material plane. In the Bhagavad-gita Krsna describes the material universe as a nonpermanent place full of miseries. Why, then, would he seek pleasure in matter? He is the Supersoul, the supreme spirit, and His pleasure is beyond the material conception. To learn how Krsna enjoys pleasure, we must study the first nine cantos of Srimad Bhagavatam, and then we should study the Tenth Canto, in which Krsna's pleasure potency is displayed in His pastimes with Radharani and the damsels of Vraja. Unfortunately, unintelligent people turn at once to the sports of Krsna in the Dasama-skandha, the Tenth Canto. Krsna's embracing Radharani or His dancing with the cowherd girls in the rasa dance are generally not understood by ordinary men, because they consider these pastimes in the light of mundane lust. They foolishly think that Krsna is like themselves and that he embraces the gopis just as an ordinary man embraces a young girl. Some people thus become interested in Krsna because they think that His religion allows indulgence in sex. This is not Krsna-bhakti, love of Krsna, but prakrta-sahajiya, materialistic lust." CC Adi-lila Introduction.

 

In another place Srila Prabhupada mentions, "The specific attraction of Krsna's pastimes with the gopis should never be misunderstood. The Bhagavatam relates these transcendental pastimes in the Tenth Canto. And in order to reach the position to understand the transcendental nature of Lord Krsna's pastimes with the gopis, the Bhagavatam promotes the student gradually in nine other cantos." SB 1/3/28 purport.

 

"Without coming to the perfectional stage, if anyone tries to understand the Gopis he becomes a sahajiya. Gopis are not ordinary women, they are all expansions of Krishna's pleasure potency. So when we understand Krishna, then we shall understand the Gopis. We can simply follow the foot prints of how the Gopis loved Krsna." Letter to Visvambhara 12/14/72.

 

Then Srila Prabhupada speaks specifically about the KAMA-SUTRA, "Indeed, there are many so-called philosophers who give directions on how to enjoy sex life. There is even a science called KAMA-SUTRA, which is the science of sex. In human life there are also such divisions as brahmacarya, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. There is no sex life except in the grhastha, or householder asrama. The brahmacari is not allowed any sex, a vanaprastha voluntarily refrains from sex, and the sannyasi is completely renounced." SB 4-25-38 Purport

 

"So purification means getting free gradually from sex desire, and this is attained by meditation on the person of the Lord as described herein, beginning from the feet. One should not try to go upwards artificially without seeing for himself how much he has been released from the sex desire. The smiling face of the Lord is the Tenth Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, and there are many upstarts who at once try to begin with the Tenth Canto and especially with the five chapters which delineate the rasa-lila of the Lord. THIS IS CERTAINLY IMPROPER. By such improper study or hearing of the Bhagavatam, the material opportunists have played havoc by indulgence in sex life in the name of Bhagavatam. This vilification of Bhagavatam is rendered by the acts of the so-called devotees; one should be free from all kinds of sex desire before he tries to make a show of recital of Bhagavatam. Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura clearly defines the import of purification as cessation from sex indulgence." SB 2-2-12 Purport.

 

"However, spiritual lust and material lust are as completely different as gold and iron. Only one who is very highly elevated in spiritual realization can understand the lusty feelings exchanged between Radha and Krsna, or between Krsna and the damsels of Vraja. Therefore, unless one is very experienced and advanced in spiritual realization, he is forbidden to discuss the lusty feelings of Krsna and the gopis." SB 5-25-5 Purport.

 

Srila Prabhupada would not allow even his own disciples to dwell on the pastimes of Krsna and the gopis, even when it was written in his own books. What to say of materialistic people shopping at Barnes and Noble, who break ALL the four regulative principles, and who are FULL of anger, lust and greed.

 

As a matter of fact Srila Prabhupada wrote the following letter in this connection, "I have received information that some of our devotees are mixing with the babajis in Vrndavana. This has produced so many problems amongst our men and women who visit Vrndavana. Here in Los Angeles, we have found there is a group of about 40 devotees who privately meet to discuss the intimate pastimes artificially thinking that they can enter into the understanding of the gopis prematurely. This will create havoc in our society, and the result will be that if this is allowed to go on, our preaching work will be greatly hampered. This premature desire to understand the lila of Krsna is due to mundane sex-life desire as we have seen amongst many of the babjis and sahajiyas in Vrndavana. Our Jagannatha dasa came back from Vrndavana asking me that he had heard some babaji speaking about siddha-deha and he also was listening to these babajis. SO I WANT THIS IMMEDIATELY STOPPED. If it continues, this mixing with the babajis, then it will mean spoiling. In many cases, these babjis keep 2 or3 women. Asatsanga tyagi. Their association is to be avoided and prohibited amongst all of our devotees who visit Vrndavana."Letter to Nitai das 6/7/76.

 

I was in Srila Prabhupada's room in October 1977. Srila Prabhupada began to speak, "I have given you this big, big, Iskcon movement. If you can, please expand it, at least maintain it, don't let it decrease. Please co-operate." And then Srila Prabhupada began to cry. Every time someone leaves Iskcon it makes Srila Prabhupada cry. So Tripurari Swami said, "People criticize me for leaving Iskcon, but I tell you, if I had to do it again, I would have left before. Knowing what I learned leaving. I'm telling you, leaving I learned more than I learned the whole time I was in." Tripurari Swami taped conversation with Krsna Balarama Swami 1995.

 

As Srila Prabhupada mentioned many times above, that if you want to be a spiritual master, you must repeat what the spiritual master says and does without any alteration or addition. Tripurari Swami's Temple/ashrama does not do daily guru puja to Srila Prabhupada, they do not daily chant the Nrsinghadeva prayers, they do not chant Yani kani ca papani prayer when circumambulating the tulasi tree as was taught to us by Srila Prabhupada, he gives initiations and does not ask all initiates to chant 16 rounds daily but asks some to chant only 4 rounds. These are just a few alterations that I am aware of, I could list more but I think you can understand the point.

 

There was another incident that bothered me and I feel the need to share it with the other devotees. Two years ago my dear friend Praghosa dasa had a life-threatening bout with cancer. Radhanatha Swami kindly gave shelter to him with the assistance of many of the devotees at Radha-Gopinatha Mandir in Chowpatty. The treatment was very expensive even for India and we needed to raise over $30,000.00. By the collective effort of the world devotees we were able to raise the necessary funds. One woman devotee called me from Chicago and wanted to contribute $108.00 to help Praghosa. I thanked her for her generosity and then she said, "Prabhu, you are a Prabhupada disciple aren't you?"

 

I told her that I was and I inquired why she wanted to know. She said that somehow Tripurari Maharaja had gotten her address and phone number and was sending tapes and literature to her. He contacted her one day by phone and was trying to convince her to get his Bhagavad-gita and study it. When she mentioned that she was reading Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita As it is and didn't feel the need for another Gita, she told me that Tripurari Swami said, "Oh my Bhagavad-gita is deeper than Prabhupada's."

 

Of course such a statement was disturbing to me and I encouraged her to take shelter of Srila Prabhupada through his bona-fide Iskcon temple.

 

Finally, a letter was written by Tripurari Swami dated 11/2/94 to the GBC members at that time. In it Tripurari Swami writes, "Let me share with you what I believe to be the greatest problem facing Iskcon today. Iskcon is suffering from, of all things, over-glorification of Srila Prabhupada." Consider that Srila Prabhupada struggled with so many difficulties to arrange passage from India to America. That he encountered 2 heart attacks on the voyage over here. That he was attacked with the intent to murder him when he was staying with that drug crazed hippy. That he had no money nor any serious followers for almost a year, that without his mercy NO ONE outside of India would have a clue of what is the mission of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. How could it be possible to OVER GLORIFY this most merciful and intimate servant of Sri Sri Radha Krsna. I would humbly submit that the problem that the world vaisnava movement is the UNDER GLORIFICATION of Srila Prabhupada.

 

I would like to conclude this letter with my most sincere and genuine appeal to Tripurari Maharaja to come back to the fold, give up all concepts of Krsna Consciousness which is contrary or different from what Srila Prabhupada taught us, and finally dedicate the rest of your life to the mass distribution of Srila Prabhupada's transcendental books.

 

I hope that whoever reads this letter will become more inspired to always glorify the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada and serve his Iskcon mission. Then at the end of this life, live eternally with Srila Prabhupada in the Spiritual World.

 

Your servant,

Udayananda dasa

 

(NOTE: The following is a quote from the Srimad Bhagavatam 4-24-46 purport. This quote was sent to me from 2 Prabhupada initiated disciples who requested to me to add this quote to my letter.)

 

"Without serving Krsna according to the vidhi-marga regulative principles of the pancaratrika-vidhi, unscrupulous persons want to jump immediately to the raga-marga principles. Such persons are called sahajiya. There are also demons who enjoy depicting Krsna and His pastimes with the gopis, taking advantage of Krsna by their licentious character. These demons who print books and write lyrics on the raga-marga principles are surely on the way to hell. Unfortunately, they lead others down with them. Devotees in Krsna Consciousness should be very careful to avoid such demons." (SB 4-24-46 Purport)

[Guest guest]

Prabhupada also told his disciples to write books, did he not? And what is the point of writing books if all you are doing is parroting? What is realization all about? Does anyone think that any other person's experience is exactly the same as another's or that it is irrelevant?

[gHari]

I don't buy a word. What a disgrace.

 

This is worse than the Mahavishnu fiasco of yesteryear. Same motive, same mayic result: a few fools making the whole organization look like idiots.

[Kripamoya]

 

Prabhupada also told his disciples to write books, did he not? And what is the point of writing books if all you are doing is parroting? What is realization all about? Does anyone think that any other person's experience is exactly the same as another's or that it is irrelevant?

 

to make this point authoritatively, you need to present the actual quote of Srila Prabhupada instructing his diciples to write books.

 

you know that in devotee circles you can't you throw out ideas without supporting evidence.

[Guest guest]

I thought this was common knowledge. Sorry, I don't have the Folio any more. Prabhupada told Satsvarupa and many others. He also told me personally in 1976, so that may be authoritative enough.

[Guest guest]

 

<font color=#666699>More of the same old arguments from another source.</font>

 

 

This is not another source. Uday is Pragosh's buddy, a fellow who, like a few others, fell in the ritvik kitchri for lack of a real taste of spiritual life.

[Kulapavana]

any sudra can quote verses. but it takes an actual twice born person to place the quotes in the right context.

 

on top of that, if you have an ulterior motive to discredit a person using carefully picked quotes you just end up with a propaganda piece, not a legitimate evaluation.

[Guest guest]

 

any sudra can quote verses. but it takes an actual twice born person to place the quotes in the right context.

 

on top of that, if you have an ulterior motive to discredit a person using carefully picked quotes you just end up with a propaganda piece, not a legitimate evaluation.

 

What is the identification of a Sudra and Twice Born? Please explain.

[theist]

The idea that Srila Prabhupada would not want his disciples to write books on Krsna consciousness is absurd. But first not that everyone should just stsrt writing books. First the subject matter must be thoughly understood, not whimisically. This anyone at even the most preliminary stages can do, as long as we stick to our proper levels by not trying to artifically speak above our pay grade.

 

It is odd that anyone living in and supporting present ISKCON would also think they are sticking to the principle of non-changing Prabhupada's message. They have re-written his books & concocted various guru schemes.

 

Of course you can challenge somoen's realiztions that are in his book but how can you criticize because he wrote a book. Just deal with the content and give up this fearmongering and demonization of other's with whom you may disagree.

[Kulapavana]

 

What is the identification of a Sudra and Twice Born? Please explain.

 

are you sincere in your question? do you really not know the difference?

 

people who are covered by their own dominating mode of ignorance are known as sudras. in their ignorance they think: "I have one paisa worth of knowledge! I'm rich! Behold my opulence!" They may read the scriptures, but make a mess by quoting them out of context. that is why the Vedas advise against them even reading the scriptures.

 

Dvijas are those who were born again to pursue spiritual interests, not their own material ambitions. They humbly think: "I do not know much. I read the shastra and I try to apply it in my life". Dvijas respect others. Sudras do not. Dvijas are very careful to consider time, place and circumstances when quoting shastra. they will rather listen than speak when not thoroughly familiar with the subject. it is something that can be easily observed.

 

if you make foolish claims by quoting shastra out of context, you are most likely not a real twice born person.

 

look at the use of this quote for example: "These demons who print books and write lyrics on the raga-marga principles are surely on the way to hell. Unfortunately, they lead others down with them. Devotees in Krsna Consciousness should be very careful to avoid such demons." (SB 4-24-46 Purport)

anybody who thinks this quote applies in this situation does not know Tripurari Maharaja.

[Kripamoya]

 

Prabhupada also told his disciples to write books, did he not? And what is the point of writing books if all you are doing is parroting? What is realization all about? Does anyone think that any other person's experience is exactly the same as another's or that it is irrelevant?

 

But, Tripurari Maharaja got the attention and appreciation of Srila Prabhupada for distributing books - not for writing them.

 

Srila Prabhupada also said that a person had to be empowered and authorized to write books.

There is so much to know about overlapping of tastes and all the subtle nuances of presenting bhakti shastra.

 

I personally don't believe that sadhakas should write literatures on bhakti.

 

I think that should be the right of the siddhas only.

 

I'm sure you would disagree.

[Kulapavana]

 

But, Tripurari Maharaja got the attention and appreciation of Srila Prabhupada for distributing books - not for writing them.

 

I personally know some disciples of TM who still distribute Prabhupada's books, encouraged to do so by their guru. Actually, for many years ISKCON refused to sell books to his disciples (at least in Poland) and they were getting Prabhupada's books through a symphathetic Iskcon devotee. Just a side note on the subject.

[Guest guest]

 

I am referring to Tripurari Swami who recently performed an initiation ceremony in North Carolina, which took people, being cultivated by Iskcon devotees to his own society known as the Gaudiya Vaisnava Society.

 

 

I think the above-quoted sentence is the heart of the problem. What arrogance, to assume that people "being cultivated" by ISKCON are somehow the property of ISKCON, and should not be allowed to follow their faith as it develops!

 

Since ISKCON obviously did not direct these new devotees to Swami Tripurari, we can understand that the new devotees found Swami Tripurari on their own, and became attracted to him and to his message. Also, Swami Tripurari did not "take" them; these devotees gave their faith to a sadhu in whom they developed trust and confidence.

 

These devotees found something in Swami Tripurari that they did not find in ISKCON. Instead of attacking Swami Tripurari, perhaps Udayananda Prabhu should engage in some self-examination, and figure out how ISKCON could in the future become more attractive to new devotees.

 

The zonal acarya days are long gone; ISKCON cannot legislate guru-nistha on the basis of geographical or institutional boundaries. The idea that if ISKCON "cultivates" a person, that person is ISKCON's property, is reprehensible. If I were a new bhakta and realized that ISKCON viewed me in this way, I would be turned off very quickly, and would be much more likely to seek out options like the Gaudiya Vaishnava Society of Swami Tripurari.

[Kripamoya]

 

I personally know some disciples of TM who still distribute Prabhupada's books, encouraged to do so by their guru. Actually, for many years ISKCON refused to sell books to his disciples (at least in Poland) and they were getting Prabhupada's books through a symphathetic Iskcon devotee. Just a side note on the subject.

 

There is much I like about Tripurari Swami.

 

I could even say I love Tripurari Swami.

 

I don't agree with everything that Tripurari Swami has done and said.

 

Maharaja and myself have a little history together.

I helped him excecute an overthrow of a temple president in Chicago one time.

Maharaja once told me I was one of his favorite devotees.

 

I still get a chuckle when I remember that.

He was quite the diplomat.

 

I never believed it for a minute.

 

Before he ever established his Audarya Ashram, i referred to him as the "bhagavat audarya avatar" in an essay I wrote and personally handed to him.

 

I wrote that because Srila Prabhupada referred to him as the incarnation of book distribution.

 

I admire Tripurari Maharaja greatly.

He is one of my favorite devotees!!!!!!

 

Like a brother, I don't always agree with him on everything.

[Guest guest]

 

In Sridhara Maharaja's own admission he stated, "Me and Swamiji (our Prabhupada) we do not see eye to eye on all things."

 

After hearing such a statement, why would any follower of Srila Prabhupada want to hear even another word from this person. Respectful obeisances should be offered, then out the door, never to return.

 

And Srila Prabhupada did not know this when he wrote, "So if you are actually serious to take instructions from a siksa guru, I can refer you to one who is most highly competent of all my god-brothers. This is B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have from his association."? SP 69-1-31 letter Hrsikesa

That's why we stayed. Acarya's may have differing opinions. Srila

Sridhar Maharaja would give the example of how Srila Sanatana Goswami saw Krsna lila going to Vrndavana and to Mathura then Dwaraka but Srila Rupa Goswami viewed Krsna lila as ending in Vrndavana. Are we asked to accept either Rupa or Sanatana and reject the other, never. It's so unfortunate that the "Prabhupada Onliests" in ISKCON and amongst the Rtviks remain in an elementary school understanding of Krsna Consciousness. It certainly doesn't help when the followers of one Gaudiya acarya are carrying on a war against another Gaudiya acarya. All more evidence of the onslaught of Kali Yuga.

[Kripamoya]

 

And Srila Prabhupada did not know this when he wrote, "So if you are actually serious to take instructions from a siksa guru, I can refer you to one who is most highly competent of all my god-brothers. This is B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have from his association."? SP 69-1-31 letter Hrsikesa

That's why we stayed. Acarya's may have differing opinions. Srila

Sridhar Maharaja would give the example of how Srila Sanatana Goswami saw Krsna lila going to Vrndavana and to Mathura then Dwaraka but Srila Rupa Goswami viewed Krsna lila as ending in Vrndavana. Are we asked to accept either Rupa or Sanatana and reject the other, never. It's so unfortunate that the "Prabhupada Onliests" in ISKCON and amongst the Rtviks remain in an elementary school understanding of Krsna Consciousness. It certainly doesn't help when the followers of one Gaudiya acarya are carrying on a war against another Gaudiya acarya. All more evidence of the onslaught of Kali Yuga.

But that "quote"

 

"Me and Swamiji (our Prabhupada) we do not see eye to eye on all things."

was not a real quote.

 

Sridhara Maharaja never refered to Prabhupada as "Swamiji".

 

that's how Narayana Maharaja refers to him.

 

Sridhar Maharaja referred to him as "Swami Maharaja".

 

To refer to the acharya as "Swamiji" is considered disrespectful by knowers of Vaishnava ettiquete.

 

Swamiji means "my friend (my buddy) the Swami"

 

ISKCON devotees stopped that in the very beginning when they found out it was rude to refer to Srila Prabhupada as "Swamiji"

 

Sridhar Maharaja said:

"I am not wholly one with Swami Maharaja".

 

Nobody is wholly one with anybody.

 

Sridhar Maharaja had a right to his own space and his own realizations.

[Guest guest]

 

But that "quote"

 

 

was not a real quote.

 

Sridhara Maharaja never refered to Prabhupada as "Swamiji".

 

that's how Narayana Maharaja refers to him.

 

Sridhar Maharaja referred to him as "Swami Maharaja".

 

To refer to the acharya as "Swamiji" is considered disresprectful by knowers of Vaishnava ettiquete.

 

Swamiji means "my friend (my buddy) the Swami"

 

ISKCON devotees stopped that in the very beginning when they found out it was rude to refer to Srila Prabhupada as "Swamiji"

 

 

 

Wow Srila Prabhupada must have really goofed when he advised his followers to go to Narayana Maharaja to learn Vaisnava sadacara or what we call Vaisnava etiquette. Actually in this sense sadacara means much more than what me may commonly think of as etiquette. Sadacara means how to behave as a Vaisnava which is really quite a broad subject and critical to our advancement in Krsna Consciouness.

[Guest guest]

"One clear example of your ignorance was the case of the funeral services for your Gurudeva. Your Gurudeva wished that H.H. Narayana Maharaja put him to rest in his Samadhi. To you it may have seemed that your Prabhupada was only speaking about funeral services. This is due only to your ignorance and lack of experience in the Vedic culture. It is the custom of the Gaudiya Vaisnavas as well as other vaisnavas and smarta sampradayas that only the successor of the departed acarya has the right to perform his funeral rites. When the body is offered to the fire the eldest son of a departed grihasta had the priority to touch the fire on to the body of the departed parent. When it is offered to the soil mixed with salt (as it happens mostly in the case of the Gaudiyas and other sampradayas departed sannyasis) the successor of that sannyasi has the right to write the Samadhi mantra on the body of the departed sannyasi. If the successor is not a sannyasi (as was in the case of Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura) then the senior most godbrother present there can write it as well as any other exalted vaisnava. In the case of Prabhupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, the Samadhi mantra was written by his first sannyasa disciple Srila Bhakti Pradipa Tirtha Maharaja, though he himself was an initiated disciple of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. If a sannyasi has departed without leaving a successor or without making any disciples, then the assembled vaisnavas must choose a qualified vaisnava to do the ceremony . Even the Hindu laws of India consider it at the time of dispute for succession the person who did perform the rituals at the time of the funerals, giving him main preference.

 

So you have to consider that although so many vaisnavas were present in Vrindavana at that time including most of your sannyasi godbrothers, your Gurudeva chose Narayana Maharaja to place him in his Samadhi. In the ISKCON video it is clearly seen that Narayana Maharaja is writing the Samadhi-mantra on the body of your Gurudeva. You cannot make a mockery out of this. . . "

 

from a letter to Ravindra Svarupa from

Sripad Bhakti Vidagdha Bhagawat Maharaja [16 October 1998]

[Guest guest]

Fascinating stuff, politics.

[Guest guest]

Jagat,

 

Are you still working for Tripurari?

 

?

[Guest guest]

I haven't done anything for Maharaj since the Gopala Tapani. He has given me permission to develop the notes I sent him into a separate publishable volume. I have recently started to put a little time into that. It will be a little more traditional and academic in form than his.

 

I translated the commentaries of Upanishad Brahma Yogi, Vishwesvara, Jiva and Prabodhananda. I also picked out salient details from the commenttaries of Yati Maharaja and Siddhanti Maharaj. Now that I have the commentary of Bhagiratha Jha (vedanta-tattva-samiksha, see Grantha Mandir), I feel it is necessary to round out the commentary with a better contextualization of the GTU within Vedanta. There are so many references to other Upanishads, etc., in GTU that need to be understood. I am also going to improve the critical notes on the text itself (i.e., establishing the correct reading of the text and the alternate readings).

 

How did the author of GTU understand the Upanishads? What was he trying to add? Etc. I will also update my introduction, which I once made available on the wisewisdoms site.

[Kripamoya]

 

Wow Srila Prabhupada must have really goofed when he advised his followers to go to Narayana Maharaja to learn Vaisnava sadacara or what we call Vaisnava etiquette. Actually in this sense sadacara means much more than what me may commonly think of as etiquette. Sadacara means how to behave as a Vaisnava which is really quite a broad subject and critical to our advancement in Krsna Consciouness.

 

Please show us the statement from Srila Prabhupada where he instructs his disciples to go to Narayana Maharaja to learn Vaishnava sadacar.

 

If you can't post such a quote, then you should retract your statement and stop making false propaganda.

[Guest guest]

 

Prabhupada also told his disciples to write books, did he not? And what is the point of writing books if all you are doing is parroting? What is realization all about? Does anyone think that any other person's experience is exactly the same as another's or that it is irrelevant?

 

and if after some 25 years of sannyasa ashrama one is still not allowed to write about his realizations (even regarding madhurya rasa in our tradition), than what is the meaning of such instructions to write books?

[Guest guest]

Aesthetic Vedanta was first published in 1997. Tripurari has been speaking like this for years. Around the time the book first came out, Uday visited Narasingha maharaja in India and, by him, was made aware of the subject. Uday was given the mission of addressing an "unpleasant situation." He really did not have to go to Barnes and Noble to check out a copy of Aestetic Vedhanta - he already had seen through the book, if not read it. Alternatively, he could have asked Jayadeva Goswami das, his friend of many years, for a copy - his going to Barnes and Noble and finding Tripiurari's book among "PORNOGRAPHY!" is one of those Uday's staging that never fail his friends some laughs.

 

But Uday is being selective about his friends, Pragosh remaining his "best". Fair enough, he could in fact cash this selective behavior as loyalty to Prabhupada.

 

Uday and his group's objection to Tripurari's writings is not in regard the sidhanta maharaja presents, but in the fact that the message is made public - brought to those who are not yet free of adharmic behavior. However, himself a disciple of Prabhupada, Uday's eligibility to claims of loyalty could be equally questioned if one considers his own breach of dharma. Going through four marriages in a lifetime (while claiming utmost level of Prabhupa-ananuga) is not exactly the model behavior Prabhupada had in mind for his followers. If the objection is a moral one, why did the ritvik group pick their most experienced in divorce agent to stage the objection?

 

And then there is book distribution. Pragosh objects to Tripurari trading book distribution by book writing. According to Uday, Pragosh is in New York City distributing books these days. But Pragosh is subsidizing book distribution WHILE SELLING HATS. No objections to that, but Tripurari is being criticized for doing the same thing, i.e., making adjustments to his service of book distribution. If Tripurari is not distributing in the old way, i.e., approaching people book in hand and saranagati in the eye, so isn’t Pragosh. The contents of Tripurari’s books are same as Prabhupadas’. Charging Tripurari as saying, “my Bhagavad-gita is deeper than Prabhupada's”, requires proof.

 

The recently initiation by Tripurari that Uday objects to was given to a young devotee born in Iskcon. Her parents who are Prabhupada’s disciples, while remaining loyal to Iskcon, support Tripurari. In fact, the GBC in charge of the Iskcon temple in the community the initiation took place, was consulted in the matter and did not object to Tripurari initiating the girl. So Uday’s version is not factual - this girl was not being “cultivated” by Iskcon, she was born in Iskcon. If Tripurari makes converts, that is to his credit. If Iskcon leaders accept the situation, that’s way overdue maturity.

 

The ritviks are a little panicking because Tripurari is gaining popularity among ISKCON followers AND leaders. He is bringing the element of thinking into the institution. And trips to Barnes and Noble could very well further the cause, if anything. So, good for you Uday. Lets keep reading those back covers.

[Kripamoya]

some books are written for preaching, some books are written for capital gain and financial needs.

 

it's up to the observers to determine which books were published with pure motive and which books were published for money making schemes.