The Wrath of Israel or Who wants war in the Middle East?

[Guest guest]

 

Too many - even one is too many...

 

Look in a mirror. You are spreading Jewish hatred against arabs. But then, they're just meaningless goyim lives to you, eh?

 

Jews actually claim to be chosen people of their god. What is more racist than that?

[Guest guest]

 

Look in a mirror. You are spreading Jewish hatred against arabs. But then, they're just meaningless goyim lives to you, eh?

 

Jews actually claim to be chosen people of their god. What is more racist than that?

 

If things look contradicting, ask the Rabbi!!!

 

 

Our Worst Enemy

July 12, 2006

 

By Rabbi Daniel Lapin

President, Toward Tradition

 

I am an Orthodox Jewish rabbi sadly denouncing one of the box office hits of 2004. Which movie has earned my wrath? Here is a clue—it surprised everyone by selling over one hundred million dollars of tickets in its first week in theaters. No, it’s not Mel Gibson’s Passion. The movie causing me deep distress is a Rosenthal/Tenenbaum production starring Dustin Hoffman, and Barbra Streisand.

 

I was sorry to see Barbra Streisand involved in the flagrant defamation of Judaism found in this, her latest movie hit. While she was making her film Yentl, for which I served as a consultant, she studied Judaism regularly and diligently with me. She was a warm and gracious guest on the occasions she had dinner with my family. Yentl’s nostalgic, if not altogether authentic glimpse into 19th century Jewish life in Poland, evoked a feeling of fondness for the characters, but like many ethnic Jews, Streisand is largely isolated from her religious roots. In the new film to which I refer, she plays not a role, but a heinous caricature of a Jewess.

 

I am reluctant to name the movie on account of the implied vulgarity of its title. If you are reluctant to part with good money for the privilege of seeing the Jewish people being defamed, you should abstain from this movie. In spite of having several Jewish producers and several Jewish stars, this film’s vile notions of Jews are not too different from those used by Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels.

 

I may be unsophisticated but I am not just a grouch with no sense of humor. I’ll fess up; I really enjoy funny movies. However you should know a little about this offensive excuse for entertainment. You might recall that in the first movie we followed Pam Byrnes as she introduced her very Jewish and nerdy boyfriend, Greg, to her parents. This sequel shows the Byrnes visiting their daughter’s future in-laws. The movie depicts Greg’s conspicuously Jewish parents as sexually obsessed, constantly concupiscent degenerates. Nice people, but depraved. Their home is filled with bric-a-brac that juts with anatomic suggestiveness.

 

Along with their son’s bar mitzvah talit, or prayer shawl, they have preserved the foreskin from his circumcision. To add to the hilarity, this souvenir makes a distasteful reappearance at an awkward moment. In reality, Jews treat the foreskin with reverence and bury it rather than turning it into a scrapbook joke. The hosts, who never miss an opportunity of exuding Jewish ethnicity, boast of their son losing his virginity to the gentile maid and they keep their guests waiting while they themselves practice what they preach in their bedroom upstairs. There are many more vile examples of Jewish people being defamed in this horrible excrescence. I am not sure that labeling it comedy excuses the defamation.

 

I do not particularly care for dark, socially significant films. Give me funny movies like The Blues Brothers and Hopscotch. However I really loathe movies that perpetuate hideous stereotypes about racial, religious, or ethnic groups, no matter how funny they may seem. What is more, I cannot see how racial bigotry is lessened if perpetrated by blacks or that anti-Semitism is diminished if delivered by Jews.

 

This movie defames Jews in a way that I haven’t seen since the worst that Woody Allen dished up. And Woody at his worst was breathtakingly hostile to Judaism. One need only recall how many of Woody’s films portray Jews, not to mention rabbis, as loathsome liars, desperate psychotics, pathetic perverts, and ridiculously lecherous losers. If Woody Allen were not Jewish, surely every Jewish organization would have roundly denounced him. And they would have been right. The problem is that he is Jewish and they don’t denounce him. Instead, we self-destructive Jews celebrate Woody Allen Week at Jewish Community Center film festivals.

 

It is not only in movies that Jews besmirch Jews as sexualizing the culture. Ruth Westheimer told The New York Times of her love for Judaism, Israel, and the Jewish people. Meanwhile, as Dr. Ruth, with her grandmotherly appearance and her high-pitched Jewish accent, she titillates her audiences with shockingly explicit sexual advice.

 

Radio shock-jock Howard Stern intersperses his displays of dehumanizing depravity with a constant stream of “Oy veys” as if subconsciously compelled to highlight his Jewish ethnicity.

 

Jerry Springer, widely known as the Jewish former mayor of Cincinnati, normalizes depravity by projecting a deviant sub-culture and its cheering hooligans right into America’s living room.

 

A few years ago, the Los Angeles Jewish Journal gushingly profiled a Jewish pornographer whose stage name is Ron Jeremy. The piece praised the huge sums he’s been paid to “bed more gorgeous women than James Bond.” Jeremy, who proudly admits to have acted in or directed over 1,500 porn videos, cited the preponderance of Jewish men in porn and explained, “Jewish families tend to be more liberal than Christian ones, they aren’t obsessed by the fear of the devil or going to hell.” As if to eliminate any lingering doubt about Ron Jeremy’s Jewishness, the Jewish Journal breathlessly assures us that Ron Jeremy plans to marry in a synagogue.

 

You’d have to be a recent immigrant from Outer Mongolia not to know of the role that people with Jewish names play in the coarsening of our culture. Almost every American knows this. It is just that most gentiles are too polite to mention it.

 

Naturally, I am not suggesting that Americans of Jewish descent should conceal their ethnic identity. I am urging those for whom Judaism is a link to the eternal values of Sinai, to wake up and realize how other Americans increasingly perceive us. Furthermore we ought to recognize that this unwholesome perception of Jews is the result of anti-Semitism perpetrated by Jews rather than by non-Jews. It would seem that Isaiah’s twenty-eight hundred year old prophecy to the Jewish people has come true today—“Those that destroy you and those that wreck you go forth from thee.” (Isaiah 49:17)

 

By now, some Jewish readers will be cringing. You might be cursing me for making public the role of Jews in debasing the culture. Perhaps you to the notion that nobody has noticed. I sympathize and want you to know that I write about it only for the purpose of trying to solve the problem. Make no mistake, it is a problem, and the solution lies not in attempting to defame the critics, but in stepping forward to criticize the defamers. Indeed, if we Jews do not ourselves condemn the wrong that our brethren do, others with less sympathy eventually will do so.

 

This excerpt from Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf shows how that evil megalomaniac roused his nation to hurl an avalanche of destruction at the Jewish people:

 

Was there any form of filth or profligacy, particularly in cultural life, without at least one Jew involved in it? What had to be reckoned heavily against the Jews in my eyes was when I became acquainted with their activity in the press, art, literature, and the theater….It sufficed to look at a billboard, to study the names behind the horrible trash they advertised….Is this why the Jews are called the “chosen people”? The fact that nine tenths of all literary filth, artistic trash, and theatrical idiocy can be set to the account of a people, constituting hardly one hundredth of all the country’s inhabitants, could simply not be talked away; it was the plain truth. (Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler, Chapter II)

 

It does not excuse Hitler or his Nazi thugs for us to acknowledge that this maniacal, master propagandist focused on a reality that resonated with the educated, and cultured Germans of his day. Not once in Mein Kampf did that monster charge Jews with being complicit in the killing of Christ two thousand years earlier. He knew that long-ago event, shrouded in mystery and theological profundity, would never goad enlightened people to murder. Instead, he drew attention to the obvious and inescapable; that which every German knew to be true.

 

The sad fact is that through Jewish actors, playwrights, and producers, the Berlin stage of Weimar Germany linked Jews and deviant sexuality in all its sordid manifestations just as surely as Broadway does today. Much of the filth in American entertainment today parallels that of Germany between the wars.

 

About twenty years ago, one of Ayn Rand’s protégés, Leonard Peikoff, wrote a book called The Ominous Parallels in which he described how Germany’s cultural decline helped bring the Nazis to power. With haunting precision, Peikoff proves how similar is America’s cultural decline. I am not predicting vicious anti-Semitism in America but I am suggesting that most decent Americans today feel more viscerally outraged by the assault on decency than by the Crucifixion.

 

Bill Cosby rightly condemned black entertainment that hatefully glorifies destructive behavior. By contrast, Barbershop, the 2002 movie starring Icecube, and Cedric the Entertainer, limned a loving portrait of a hard-working African-American family valiantly struggling to achieve nobility in the face of formidable challenge. In the same year, Nia Vardalos did her hilarious My Big Fat Greek Wedding, clearly demonstrating her love for her warm-hearted and decent relatives. Contrarily, we Jews routinely depict ourselves in repugnant caricatures of people you’d want nothing to do with in real life. Why do my colleagues in Jewish communal leadership never condemn this anti-Semitism? For if it is not anti-Semitism, what is?

 

Ah, but wait. The leader of a famous Jewish defense organization that exists to stop the defamation of the Jewish people, recently denounced, in The Jerusalem Post, one of the most profitable movies of 2004 for its “vile notions of Jews.” Reluctant to “contribute to the overflowing coffers” of the producers by encouraging attendance, he nonetheless insisted that “only by viewing it can one understand how offensive it is.”

 

Was he describing the horrible sequel I am refusing to name? Sadly, not. He was referring to Mel Gibson’s The Passion. Nearly a year after its release, and after polls show increased regard for Jews among the film’s audiences, Jewish organizations still condemn The Passion as defamatory to Jews. Yet, astonishingly, they don’t consider the examples I cite above as defamatory to Jews.

 

Here is a simple question: Do you suppose that people’s view of what Jews are really like is shaped more by Caius, an obscure two-thousand-year old character in The Passion or alternatively by the contemporary couple played by Streisand and Hoffman? Which movie more egregiously defames Jews? Consider the meaning of the word ‘defame.’ To de-fame means to undo the fame currently being enjoyed. Jews used to be known for having endowed the world with the notion of sexual restraint and modesty. Judaism is now being defamed by Jews.

 

Inexplicably, nearly a year after its release and without a shred of proof that anyone thinks the worse of Jews on its account, The Passion continues to trouble some Jewish leaders. Hinting that their real target was Mel Gibson the religious conservative, rather than Mel Gibson the defamer of Judaism, a Jewish leader last week criticized Gibson for opposing the changes in Catholic teaching advocated by the Vatican II council. This is tantamount to a Christian leader criticizing an Orthodox Jew for opposing the acceptance of homosexuality advocated by the leadership of Reform Judaism. The only word for this is “Chutzpah”—indescribable impudence.

 

For years the same Jewish leader has ignored Jews who flagrantly and fraudulently defame Judaism but he incessantly continues to condemn Mel Gibson. He fails to realize that it is his exaggerated attacks on Mel Gibson, whose movie recently took top honors at the 31st annual People's Choice Awards, that do considerable harm to American Jews, not the film itself. Apparently Jews may behave outrageously while Christians, however, will be held to a higher standard. This abolition of honest objectivity lays the foundation for a frightening form of censorship and arbitrary prosecution. It would surely cause the most cynical KGB commissar of the bad old days to drool with envy.

 

A paramount principle of paleontology is that failure to adapt is a symptom of impending extinction. Anachronistically obsessing on yesterday’s dangers blinds one to contemporary perils. It is true that in the past, mobs of European Catholics did murder Jews. That has never happened in this most philo-Semitic of countries. American Jews are not threatened by rampaging Christians seeking revenge for the blood of Christ. However Jews are threatened by other forces against which we have precious few allies. Prominent among our allies are seriously religious, and for the most part, conservative Christians.

 

When will more Jewish leaders learn who their friends really are? When will they learn that those who incessantly bludgeon their friends eventually won’t have any friends left?

 

It would be foolish not to realize that most decent Americans are bothered far more by the trashing of American culture today than they are by our possible complicity in the killing of Christ two thousand years ago. Because so many of the most prominent trashers possess Jewish names and proudly proclaim their Jewish ethnicity, it becomes a Jewish responsibility to condemn the vulgarity by means of which they defame Judaism.

 

We can’t stop the Woody Allens and Howard Sterns, and in a nation that enshrined free speech, maybe we oughtn’t to try. However we could redeem ourselves by protesting them instead of dissipating valuable energies and priceless goodwill by endlessly protesting The Passion.

 

Rabbi Daniel Lapin is the president of Toward Tradition,

a national coalition of Christians and Jews defending

the Judeo-Christian values vital for our culture.

[Guest guest]

 

Look in a mirror. You are spreading Jewish hatred against arabs. But then, they're just meaningless goyim lives to you, eh?

 

Jews actually claim to be chosen people of their god. What is more racist than that?

 

And ISKCON feels its the one truth, and Christians feel they are the way to god etc.

Believing ones faith to be the true one has nothing to do with race junior

 

A quick history lesson for you chipper, the Jews hate nobody, they just want to live their lives out in peace. They lived side by side with the muslims in what is now Israel up until the creation of the Muslim brotherhood who decided that Jews had no place in the world. I could continue the history lesson if you want.

[Guest guest]

 

 

Jews actually claim to be chosen people of their god. What is more racist than that?

 

 

 

Samples of Jewish hate taken from w.israelinsider.com/views/articles/views_0401.htm

Simply add the www since I can`t link as guest all these facts are easy to verify.

 

 

There are 21 Arab countries in the Middle East and only one Jewish state: Israel, which is also the only democracy in the region.

 

Israel is the only country in the region that permits citizens of all faiths to worship freely and openly. Twenty percent of Israeli citizens are not Jewish.

 

While Jews are not permitted to live in many Arab countries, Arabs are granted full citizenship and have the right to vote in Israel. Arabs are also free to become members of the Israeli parliament (the Knesset). In fact, several Arabs have been democratically elected to the Knesset and have been serving there for years. Arabs living in Israel have more rights and are freer than most Arabs living in Arab countries

 

Finally, let us consider the demand that certain territories in the Muslim world must be off-limits to Jews. This demand is of a piece with Hitler's proclamation that German land had to be "Judenrein" (empty of Jews). Arabs can live freely throughout Israel, and as full citizens. Why should Jews be forbidden to live or to own land in an area like the West Bank simply because the majority of people is Arab?

[Guest guest]

 

Samples of Jewish hate taken from w.israelinsider.com/views/articles/views_0401.htm

Simply add the www since I can`t link as guest all these facts are easy to verify.

 

 

There are 21 Arab countries in the Middle East and only one Jewish state: Israel, which is also the only democracy in the region.

 

Israel is the only country in the region that permits citizens of all faiths to worship freely and openly. Twenty percent of Israeli citizens are not Jewish.

 

While Jews are not permitted to live in many Arab countries, Arabs are granted full citizenship and have the right to vote in Israel. Arabs are also free to become members of the Israeli parliament (the Knesset). In fact, several Arabs have been democratically elected to the Knesset and have been serving there for years. Arabs living in Israel have more rights and are freer than most Arabs living in Arab countries

 

Finally, let us consider the demand that certain territories in the Muslim world must be off-limits to Jews. This demand is of a piece with Hitler's proclamation that German land had to be "Judenrein" (empty of Jews). Arabs can live freely throughout Israel, and as full citizens. Why should Jews be forbidden to live or to own land in an area like the West Bank simply because the majority of people is Arab?

 

Don't divert attention from the Truth. The Zionists are no saints.

 

See what Orthodox Jews have to say against Zionism. Hasidic Jews (the ones who study the Kabbalah) are strongly are against the Zionist agenda:

 

jewsagainstzionism.com

[Guest guest]

 

And ISKCON feels its the one truth, and Christians feel they are the way to god etc.

Believing ones faith to be the true one has nothing to do with race junior

 

A quick history lesson for you chipper, the Jews hate nobody, they just want to live their lives out in peace. They lived side by side with the muslims in what is now Israel up until the creation of the Muslim brotherhood who decided that Jews had no place in the world. I could continue the history lesson if you want.

 

You obviously are very ignorant of Jewish beliefs. Jews claim to be their god's chosen people. Their Talmud says that Gentiles are dogs. Some European Kabbalists have even gone so far to say Jews and Gentiles have different types of souls; with Gentile souls being inferior.

 

You can go on Jewish message boards, and see the constant lambasting of goyim (non-Jews). These are facts. Jews believe they are the "apple of Yahweh's eye".

 

I am not a Hare Krishna, but I know ISKCON is not a racist organization.

 

We all condemn white supremacists who teach that whites are superior, as we should. But why would we not condemn Jewish superiority teachings as well? the hypocrisy! time to tell it like it is. Racism is sick.

 

We are NOT these bodies, there is NO chosen race. Jews are no more special than any gentile.

[Guest guest]

 

Don't divert attention from the Truth. The Zionists are no saints.

 

See what Orthodox Jews have to say against Zionism. Hasidic Jews (the ones who study the Kabbalah) are strongly are against the Zionist agenda:

 

jewsagainstzionism.com

 

Sorry I speak the truth, you however just live in your sad little jew hating bubble.

[Guest guest]

 

You obviously are very ignorant of Jewish beliefs. Jews claim to be their god's chosen people. Their Talmud says that Gentiles are dogs. Some European Kabbalists have even gone so far to say Jews and Gentiles have different types of souls; with Gentile souls being inferior.

 

You can go on Jewish message boards, and see the constant lambasting of goyim (non-Jews). These are facts. Jews believe they are the "apple of Yahweh's eye".

 

I am not a Hare Krishna, but I know ISKCON is not a racist organization.

 

We all condemn white supremacists who teach that whites are superior, as we should. But why would we not condemn Jewish superiority teachings as well? the hypocrisy! time to tell it like it is. Racism is sick.

 

We are NOT these bodies, there is NO chosen race. Jews are no more special than any gentile.

 

Sorry there skippy I know Jewish teachings, I spent years in Israel living with a couple of different families that opened their homes to me, a Hindu. All faiths claim they are the true path to god but I guess your hate of the Jew makes their claims even more evil to you.

 

I am sorry the truth hurts your ego, maybe you should leave your TV for a while and go to a holy place and chant till god removes your hate

[Guest guest]

 

Sorry there skippy I know Jewish teachings, I spent years in Israel living with a couple of different families that opened their homes to me, a Hindu. All faiths claim they are the true path to god but I guess your hate of the Jew makes their claims even more evil to you.

 

I am sorry the truth hurts your ego, maybe you should leave your TV for a while and go to a holy place and chant till god removes your hate

 

I guess your hate of the arabs, blinds you to the atrocities that are being committed by Zionists. But what can be said? they are showing no mercy and following the way of violence as they believe they are commanded to do so by their god.

 

Jewish god commands:

 

You must destroy all the nations the Lord your God hands over to you. Show them no mercy, and do not worship thier gods, or they will trap you.

Deuteronomy 7:16

 

This call to violence and lack of mercy shown to non-Jews is precisely why the Gnostics called the Jewish god a Demiurge, a cruel astral lord, who is an enemy of mankind.

[Guest guest]

 

Sorry I speak the truth, you however just live in your sad little jew hating bubble.

 

haha, you are so naive. Hasidic Jews condemn Zionism, so are they Jew-haters? Saying Arabs are equal to Jews is racist against Jews?

 

True Dharma is not found in Zionist extremism or Islamic extremism. Saying Zionism and Islamic extremism is evil is not about hating a race, it is about hating an agenda. NOT all Jews are zionist, as the link above clearly shows! and not all arabs are terrorists.

[Guest guest]

 

I guess your hate of the arabs, blinds you to the atrocities that are being committed by Zionists. But what can be said? they are showing no mercy and following the way of violence as they believe they are commanded to do so by their god.

 

Jewish god commands:

 

You must destroy all the nations the Lord your God hands over to you. Show them no mercy, and do not worship thier gods, or they will trap you.

Deuteronomy 7:16

 

This call to violence and lack of mercy shown to non-Jews is precisely why the Gnostics called the Jewish god a Demiurge, a cruel astral lord, who is an enemy of mankind.

 

Reading those anti-jew sites a bit too much there skippy. Face it you know zero about the faith except what your little hate sites tell you. Spend some time outside and with real people and you might learn something.

 

Cite any of these atrocities ?

Kidnapping and Killing ..... nope sorry that was Hamas and Hezbulla.

Shelling innocents ...... nope sorry Hamas and Hezbulla again.

 

Funny you say I hate Arabs but I have lived among them, I must really hate them to have lived in the UAE and will be returning there next March after a few months in Israel visiting friends.

So once again I would reccommend turning off the TV and Internet and maybe chant a bit for a clear head and to erase some hate, then hop on a plane and go to Israel and learn a bit.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

You obviously are very ignorant of Jewish beliefs. Jews claim to be their god's chosen people. Their Talmud says that Gentiles are dogs. Some European Kabbalists have even gone so far to say Jews and Gentiles have different types of souls; with Gentile souls being inferior.

 

You can go on Jewish message boards, and see the constant lambasting of goyim (non-Jews). These are facts. Jews believe they are the "apple of Yahweh's eye".

 

I am not a Hare Krishna, but I know ISKCON is not a racist organization.

 

We all condemn white supremacists who teach that whites are superior, as we should. But why would we not condemn Jewish superiority teachings as well? the hypocrisy! time to tell it like it is. Racism is sick.

 

We are NOT these bodies, there is NO chosen race. Jews are no more special than any gentile.

 

You can go on Jewish message boards, and see the constant lambasting of goyim (non-Jews)

 

Or you can come to this and - other sites - and see the same lambasting of Jews - so where to go from here?

 

Some of us - on all sides - know that there are going to be these types of people who place some sort of ego ahead of everything else. We do not ALL have to be sucked into this improper perspective. One’s success or defeat in any activity is understood by its result?

 

We read things like:

 

"Jewish god commands: You must destroy all the nations the Lord your God hands over to you. Show them no mercy, and do not worship thier gods, or they will trap you. Deuteronomy 7:16"

 

Yet whomever quoted this - did so - ignorant of many factors - in fact this 'god's chosen people' discussion was dealt with here [note: the discussion is a few pages at least]:

 

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/spiritual-discussions/40918-origins-satan-myth-impact-global-politics-3.html

 

In that thread we get into the nity gritty of these issues - i think it's a good read - of course my own so-called political views have - expanded - in some areas [i've been called a neocon now ] since this thread was created and closed.

 

Without doubt too much of the political in our world is in a state of constant point and counter-point.

 

What are the issues behind these point and counter-point scenarios?

 

Well let's look at these quotes from Srila Prabhupada:

 

The age of Kali is the most condemned age due to its quarrelsome features. Kali-yuga is so saturated with vicious habits that there is a great fight at the slightest misunderstanding. [sB 1.1.16, Purport]

 

But due to the age of quarrel, Kali, which we have discussed, there is always a chance of quarrel on slight provocation. This is due not to the issue in question but to the polluted atmosphere of this age. [Room Conversation, 06/25/76]

 

So whether the issues are religious racial economic - whatever - the real issue is just that: there is always a chance of quarrel on slight provocation. This is due not to the issue in question but to the polluted atmosphere of this age

 

So where does that lead to? There are two classes of men those who are sober and grave and those who are delusional and unrestrained.

 

How the other factors - such as racial and religious tensions play into it are secondary to these facts.

 

We need to see that our world is suffering in kali yuga - the age of quarrel.

 

We further need to see that it isn't so much of these factors like economics and race and religion that we need to work through - it's an understanding of the polluted atmosphere of this age - that we need to work on - from a collective stand-point.

 

Of course any discussions about the polluted atmosphere of this age is going to become heated too as ones sins are another's vices - but - who can deny reactive results?

 

The thing that is most polluting in this age is the mentality of people and - how did it get there?

 

How did everyone get to hate everyone else? Envy? could that figure into it anywhere?

 

So to the point here - if I have one at all - let's look at the class of peoples and individuals and the nature of reactive results and see where the problem is.

 

Now if you are dealing with someone who wishes to exterminate you - how can you use diplomacy?

 

When Krishna went to Duryodana and said 'give but five villages and there will be no war' - what did the egotistic Duryodana say? 'no - not even the earth you could fit on the tip of a pin' - just like that - are these hamas groups and - others!

 

How is it the fault of Israel if there are all these people around the world who also say that essentially Israel has no right to exist?

 

A ksatriya is not supposed to refuse to battle or gamble when he is so invited by some rival party...Obligation is actually binding when the effect is good, but when the effect is otherwise, then no one can be bound. [bG, 1.37, Purport]

 

So on the matter of self defense according to Vedic injunctions there are six kinds of aggressors such as: one who attacks with deadly weapons and - one who kidnaps - such aggressors are to be killed and - no sin is incurred by killing such aggressors.

 

That is the position of the Leaders in Israel right now - the 'aggressors' kidnapped the soldiers and then began attacks with deadly weapons - the situation is clear!

 

So one might say that Israel is the aggressor due to occupation of that land - but - that isn't so. Of course I'll be called names for saying this but - Israel now exists because - it's the will of God.

 

As it is said, not a blade of grass moves without the will of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. [bG 7.21, Purport]

 

So are we all going to be victims or are we going to do as Prabupada says:

 

This age of Kali will certainly be full of all activities of Kali, but this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of the age of Kali. In the rainy season certainly there will be profuse rainfalls, but that does not mean that men should not take means to protect themselves from the rains. It is the duty of the executive heads of state and others to take all necessary actions against the activities of Kali or the persons influenced by the age of Kali [bG 1.17.28, Purport]

 

So are not the terrorists in our world aggressors? Are they not agents of quarrel?

 

Here is a quote that fits the situation:

 

The demon Yaksas are by nature very heinous, and by their demoniac power of illusion they can create many strange phenomena to frighten one who is less intelligent. [sB 4.10.28]

 

So that is sort of speaking to terrorists and their Methods of Operation?

 

One last point - to the many leaders - specifically Mr. Putin - who are using this "disproportionate" argument against Israel - what about Chechnya? Is their actions there "disproportionate"? One could make the argument?

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Who told you this - Yahweh, the storm god?

 

You are preaching bible rhetoric! go to a rapture forum with that judeo-christian rhetoric, but don't spread it amongst vaishnavas and other Hindus and expect us to believe it.

 

God will not permit the destruction of dharma. He says nothing about Israel in any Vedic scriptures.

 

If you read this thread:

 

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/spiritual-discussions/40918-origins-satan-myth-impact-global-politics-15.html

 

You'll see that I well understand the evangelical slant - I also understand much more!

 

As for all your anti-jew chosen people stuff and all that other rhetoric:

 

But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig-tree; and none shall make them afraid; for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken. 5 For let all the peoples walk each one in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. [Micah 4.4]

 

All of them—as they surrender unto Me—I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Prtha. [bG 4.11]

 

 

Yes the 'storm god' told me that!

[Guest guest]

 

Reading those anti-jew sites a bit too much there skippy.

 

The site I posted was not anti-Jewish, it is run by Hasidic Jews! and filled with their teachings on Orthodox Judaism, and why Orthodox Jews oppose Zionism.

 

 

Face it you know zero about the faith except what your little hate sites tell you. Spend some time outside and with real people and you might learn something.

 

You're wrong. I studied Judaism for several yrs. and almost converted. But during my studies I could not get past all the racialism in their beliefs. I did not accept that Jews were God's favorite, or that Jewish souls were different than my own. Note I am not saying all Jews believe that Gentiles possess lesser souls, but at least a couple Kabbalist Rebbes have taught this in the past. Also note, that not all Kabbalists are Jewish, nor is Kabbalah exclusively based on Judaism (there is, for example, the Hermetic Qabalah), so some Kabbalists do not promote racialism.

 

 

Cite any of these atrocities ?

 

'An Israeli air raid has killed at least 17 Lebanese civilians who were fleeing southern border areas. Women and children were among those killed when the convoy was hit. "Bodies litter the road," an eyewitness said. Israel has expanded its campaign launched after Hezbollah militants seized two Israeli soldiers. More than 70 Lebanese have been killed.'

 

 

Kidnapping and Killing ..... nope sorry that was Hamas and Hezbulla.

Shelling innocents ...... nope sorry Hamas and Hezbulla again.

 

I condemn the Islamic extremists! but I also condemn the Zionist agenda, that thinks they can stamp out arab life, or treat Palestineans like dirt, because they are God's chosen, and the rest are the goyim bastard children of Abraham.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

I also condemn the Zionist agenda, that thinks they can stamp out arab life, or treat Palestineans like dirt, because they are God's chosen, and the rest are the goyim bastard children of Abraham.

 

There is no 'zionist agenda' of which you speak!

 

The only 'zionist agenda' that exists is that which is trying to see a homeland for Jews - where they won't endure anymore pogroms - where they won't be persecuted [and worse] - for being Jewish.

 

That there are so many in our world - still planting these seeds - is evidence of a need for this Homeland - for those wishing to go there.

 

Is the world ever going to stop persecuting them for this?

 

I cannot believe that there are so many people who just don't get it....

 

...In this battle, every inch counts...

 

http://news./s/ap/20051014/...rier_battles_2

 

[note that old news link is now inoperative]

 

Here is this nice quote again:

 

"It is better to have ten inches to stand upon than a hundred yards to fall." [Avoth d'Rab. Nathan, chap. 1]

 

Let’s take a look at something else that seems of importance here:

 

And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne unto Abraham, making sport. Wherefore she said unto Abraham: 'Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.' And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight on account of his son. And God said unto Abraham: 'Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah saith unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall seed be called to thee. And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.' And Abraham arose up early in the morning, and took bread and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away; and she departed, and strayed in the wilderness of Beer-sheba. And the water in the bottle was spent, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bow-shot; for she said: 'Let me not look upon the death of the child.' And she sat over against him, and lifted up her voice, and wept. And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her: 'What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him fast by thy hand; for I will make him a great nation.' And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink. And God was with the lad, and he grew; and he dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer [Genesis 21.9-20]

 

And Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah, the daughter of Bethuel the Aramean, of Paddan-aram, the sister of Laban the Aramean, to be his wife. And Isaac entreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren; and the LORD let Himself be entreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived. And the children struggled together within her; and she said: 'If it be so, wherefore do I live?' And she went to inquire of the LORD. And the LORD said unto her: Two nations are in thy womb, and two peoples shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger. And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb. And the first came forth ruddy, all over like a hairy mantle; and they called his name Esau. And after that came forth his brother, and his hand had hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob. And Isaac was threescore years old when she bore them. And the boys grew; and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a quiet man, dwelling in tents. Now Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison; and Rebekah loved Jacob. And Jacob sod pottage; and Esau came in from the field, and he was faint. And Esau said to Jacob: 'Let me swallow, I pray thee, some of this red, red pottage; for I am faint.' Therefore was his name called Edom. And Jacob said: 'Sell me first thy birthright.' And Esau said: 'Behold, I am at the point to die; and what profit shall the birthright do to me?' And Jacob said: 'Swear to me first'; and he swore unto him; and he sold his birthright unto Jacob. And Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentils; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way. So Esau despised his birthright. {P} [Genesis 25.20-34]

 

Since the time of the renewal of modern Israel - the Arab's have had an ill perception of being cheated - the Arabs and especially the Palestinians - are now looking to these ancient passages to try to justify their angry hate for their close cousins?

 

The leaders in modern Israel should be aware of this perception and - the propensity for groups like the evangelicals and radical Islamists - to calculate these points like - "the children struggled together within her" - how could they ill-calculate that?

 

It is very important to see the ancient karma that is playing out here. This is a time for REAL understanding - even in the face of pain - it isn't a time for building walls!

 

Jerusalem is to have a new Temple - a House of Prayer for all Nations - and that includes the Arab Nations.

 

It is time to move forward before the age of quarrel usurps the entire situation - to end it in total chaos.

 

Both parties have to consider:

 

"It is better to have ten inches to stand upon than a hundred yards to fall." [Avoth d'Rab. Nathan, chap. 1]

[Guest guest]

 

Yes the 'storm god' told me that!

 

Cool pic, but I don't think you understood my reference. The original Hebrews were henotheists. They believed in many gods, but believed their God (Yahweh) was the only one they were to follow. Eventually they became pure monotheists, but this is another topic. There have been many academic studies on this.

 

Yahweh is the equivalent of Zues, the storm god of Greece.

 

In research, we see the Jewish god was originally the Canaanite El. He later evolved into the Supreme God of the Jews.

 

Hindus never worshipped storm gods as Supreme - we (various sects) have worshipped Shiva, Vishnu, and Durga as Supreme - but never Indra.

 

Judaism was derived from Canaanite, Sumerian, Egyptian, and Babylonian beliefs. The entire Genesis account was taken from Sumerian and Babylonian creation myths.

 

Biblical Beginnings in Canaan

 

mystae.com/restricted/streams/thera/canaan.html

 

And yes, all paths lead to God in the end. So Judaism serves its purpose, as does every religion. Hare Krishna.

[Guest guest]

 

There is no 'zionist agenda' of which you speak!

 

Wrong.. look around you and see how many Zionists are in places of power in the United States. They make sure that their agenda is put in place, by being carefully placed themselves.

 

 

I cannot believe that there are so many people who just don't get it....

 

I suppose the Hasidic Jews just don't get it then? because they are the strongest opponents of the Israeli nation. They do not recognize it at all as having anything to do with the true Israel of (their) God.

 

Rabbi Shaul Brach

“Since the dawn of the Zionist movement, suffering has not ceased to exist in the world. All the warnings of the Torah have been fulfilled in their details among our People all over the world. For a believer it is no surprise that the Zionists are the same as the heretics at the time of the Destruction of the Temple. Thus, divine judgment has been unleashed on the entire world.”

 

I do not agree with much of the rhetoric of this quote - but it shows you that Orthodox Jewish Rabbis are strongly AGAINST Zionism.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Of course - unless it's obvious from my other postings in recent months - I no longer feel that the Bush Admin. is a bad thing for mid-east peace...

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Wrong.. look around you and see how many Zionists are in places of power in the United States. They make sure that their agenda is put in place, by being carefully placed themselves.

 

 

 

I suppose the Hasidic Jews just don't get it then? because they are the strongest opponents of the Israeli nation. They do not recognize it at all as having anything to do with the true Israel of (their) God.

 

Rabbi Shaul Brach

“Since the dawn of the Zionist movement, suffering has not ceased to exist in the world. All the warnings of the Torah have been fulfilled in their details among our People all over the world. For a believer it is no surprise that the Zionists are the same as the heretics at the time of the Destruction of the Temple. Thus, divine judgment has been unleashed on the entire world.”

 

I do not agree with much of the rhetoric of this quote - but it shows you that Orthodox Jewish Rabbis are strongly AGAINST Zionism.

Yes - I'm aware of what they think - they are thinking that the State of Israel cannot be re-newed without the advent of Messiah - of course - one might say that Messiah has already been born [see micah 5.2: Therefore will He give them [beth-lehem ] up, until the time that she who travaileth hath brought forth; then the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel " so- they aught to consider - all this return to the Land of Israel is being driven by God - in advance of his [messiah's not God's] formal appearance on the scene.

 

It is thought that Messiah would be born in Beth-lehem - but that is not so - because in Micah we are seeing a discussion of the loss of the State - that happened in about 30 C.E. - it wasn't but 1900+ years later - in 1967 - that Beth-lehem again was part of a State of Israel. So from that passage we can see that he and the residue of his brethren shall return to Israel. So he is not born there - his maternal family orgin is there. He was to be born around this time - June 05, 1967.

 

You of course do not accept any of this messianic age stuff so this is most obviously going to be lost on you - but we were talking about Hasidic Jews and what they think.

 

As for the zionist movement being the cause of suffering - I don't think so - the reactions of those who are improperly threatened by this movement have precipitated conflicts and that has lead to suffering.

 

There are a great many orthodox jews who do support the real effort of real zionism and - those that don't - shall one day do so.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Cool pic, Hindus never worshipped storm gods as Supreme - we (various sects) have worshipped Shiva, Vishnu, and Durga as Supreme - but never Indra. Hare Krishna.

 

Yes thanx the pic is neat - i hope.

 

You wrote:

 

"The original Hebrews were henotheists."

 

The same is often said of those who serve Vishnu too.

 

Of course i think you should consider that Vishnu is regarded by some as being formed out of a minor sun god? [i know i know - but that is what maya does - obscures things like this] Even if we are to see it this way - God has countless plenary expansions - all reflecting some pastime/task-related aspect - so in the proper perspective - the God of the Hebrews is indeed God - VISHNU - especially if we see it as an so-called evolution from hedonism based gods - to understanding that there really is only one God - one enjoyer.

 

This could be said of the so-called evolution of Vishnu - again - in the Gita we see:

 

All of them—as they surrender unto Me—I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Prtha. [bG, 4.11]

 

Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary... [bG, 7.23]

 

Whatever a man may sacrifice to other gods, O son of Kunti, is really meant for Me alone, but it is offered without true understanding. [bG, 9.23]

 

So that is sort of what He is saying here:

 

I am the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. [Exodus 20.2]

 

And in all things that I have said unto you take ye heed; and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth. [Exodus, 23.13]

 

So there it is - He says 'I did this thing for you and now I'm going to look after you so please try to see who I am and don't follow after others' - in fact - in the narrative where Moses encountered the burning bush - when Moses asked who He was He said [in a close rendering of the Hebrew] - "I will be whomever I will be" - not just the translated - "I Am" - so figure that.

 

So when He says no others before Me - He asked this understanding of them:

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is greater than all, is attainable by unalloyed devotion. Although He is present in His abode, He is all-pervading, and everything is situated within Him. [bG 8.22]

[Kulapavana]

 

How many clueless Jew haters are on this board anyway ?

 

being pro-jewish or anti jewish will not help you develop Krsna consciousness. but siding with truth and justice WILL - regardless how unpopular such a position may be.

 

dont follow your material sentiments. avoid demonic people and demonic actions even if they happen to be in your family.

 

those who bomb Haifa are just as demonic as those who bomb Gaza and neither side deserves support from a Vaishnava in their acts of war. let them rot in their own hate and greed as both sides are led by true demons.

[AncientMariner]

 

being pro-jewish or anti jewish will not help you develop Krsna consciousness. but siding with truth and justice WILL - regardless how unpopular such a position may be.

 

dont follow your material sentiments. avoid demonic people and demonic actions even if they happen to be in your family.

 

those who bomb Haifa are just as demonic as those who bomb Gaza and neither side deserves support from a Vaishnava in their acts of war. let them rot in their own hate and greed as both sides are led by true demons.

 

 

I definetly think there is a lot of truth to what you said. Its difficult for me to discern where truth and justice is in this world . I was of more of a liberal mind set before and partially during the Clinton years but I saw how the press pretty much covered up for a lot of his criminal activities or just acted like they were no big deal so I moved more to the right. Now I hear everyone saying Bush is a fascist Ku Klux Klan supporter which may or may not be true so it is possible that Bush is as bad or worse than Clinton, I don't know for sure. After the Clinton years I have a very difficult time trusting liberals even though deep in my heart I consider myself of a liberal mind set believe it or not. With 99% of the population in the Kali-yuga being unwanted population by the design of Krishna, the one thing you can surely count on is that there are demons everywhere on both sides so on that account I definetly agree with you.

[Guest guest]

Below is the speech that Brigitte Gabriel, a Lebanese survivor of Palestinian tyranny, delivered at the Duke University on October 14, 2004.

 

I'm proud and honored to stand here today as a Lebanese speaking for Israel -- the only democracy in the Middle East. As someone who was raised in an Arabic country, I want to give you a glimpse into the

heart of the Arabic world.

 

I was raised in Lebanon where I was taught that the Jews were evil,

Israel was the devil, and the only time we will have peace in the

Middle East is when we kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea.

 

When the Muslims and Palestinians declared Jihad on the Christians in1975, they started massacring the Christians city after city. I ended

up living in a bomb shelter underground from age 10 to 17 without

electricity eating grass to live and crawling under sniper bullets to

a spring to get water.

 

It was Israel that came to help the Christians in Lebanon. My mother

was wounded by a Muslim's shell and was taken into an Israeli hospital for treatment. When we entered the emergency room I was shocked at what I saw.

 

There were hundreds of people wounded, Muslims,

Palestinians, Christian Lebanese and Israeli soldiers lying on the

floor. The doctors treated everyone according to their injury. They

treated my mother before they treated the Israeli soldier lying next

to her. They didn't see religion. They didn't see political

affiliation. They saw people in need and they helped.

 

The difference between the Arabic world and Israel is a difference in

values and character. It's barbarism versus civilization. It's

dictatorship versus democracy. It's evil versus goodness.

 

For the first time in my life, I experienced a human quality that I

know my culture would never have shown to its enemy. I experienced the values of the Israelis -- who were able to love their enemy in their most trying moments. I spent 22 days at that hospital.

 

Those days changed my life and the way I listen to the media. I realized that I had been sold a fabricated lie by my government about the Jews and Israel that was so far from reality. I knew for a fact that if I was a Jew standing in an Arab hospital, I would be lynched and thrown over to the grounds as shouts of joy of "Allahu Akbar" (God is Great) would echo through the hospital and the surrounding streets.

 

I became friends with the families of the Israeli wounded soldiers,

one in particular Rina, her only child was wounded in his eyes.

One day I was visiting with her and the Israeli army band came to play national songs to lift the spirits of the wounded soldiers. As they surrounded Rina's son's bed playing a song about Jerusalem, Rina and I started crying. I felt out of place and started waking out of the room, and this mother holds my hand and pulls me back in without even looking at me.

 

She holds me crying and says: "It is not your fault." We just stood there crying holding each other's hands.

 

What a contrast between her, a mother looking at her deformed

19-year-old only child, and still able to love me -- the enemy, and

between a Muslim mother who sends her son to blow himself up to

smithereens just to kill a few Jews or Christians.

 

The difference between the Arabic world and Israel is a difference in

values and character. It's barbarism versus civilization. It's

dictatorship versus democracy. It's evil versus goodness.

 

Once upon a time, there was a special place in the lowest depths of

hell for anyone who would intentionally murder a child. Now, the

intentional murder of Israeli children is legitimized as Palestinian

"armed struggle". However, once such behavior is legitimized against

Israel, it is legitimized everywhere in the world, constrained by

nothing more than the subjective belief of people who would wrap

themselves in dynamite and nails for the purpose of killing children

in the name of God.

 

Because the Palestinians have been encouraged to believe that

murdering innocent Israeli civilians is a legitimate tactic for

advancing their cause, the whole world now suffers from a plague of

terrorism, from Nairobi to New York, from Moscow to Madrid, from Bali to Beslan, a plague of terror which has been authored and perfected by the Palestinians for the last half century.

 

They blame suicide bombing on "desperation from occupation." But let me tell you the truth. The first major terror bombing committed by Arabs against the Jewish state occurred ten weeks before Israel even became independent. On Sunday morning, February 22, 1948, in anticipation of Israel's independence, a triple truck bomb was

detonated by Arab terrorists on Ben Yehuda Street in what was then the Jewish section of Jerusalem. Fifty-four people were killed and

hundreds were wounded.

 

It is obvious that Arab terrorism is caused not by the "desperation from occupation", but by the very thought of a Jewish state.

 

So many times in history in the last 100 years, citizens have stood by

and done nothing, allowing evil to prevail. As America stood up

against and defeated communism, now it is time to stand up against the terror of religious bigotry and intolerance. It's time for all of us

to stand up and support and defend the state of Israel, which is the

front line of the war against terrorism.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

but siding with truth and justice WILL - regardless how unpopular such a position may be.

 

That is exactly what I'm doing here - all this time - in all these discussions...

[AncientMariner]

 

Below is the speech that Brigitte Gabriel, a Lebanese survivor of Palestinian tyranny, delivered at the Duke University on October 14, 2004.

 

I'm proud and honored to stand here today as a Lebanese speaking for Israel -- the only democracy in the Middle East. As someone who was raised in an Arabic country, I want to give you a glimpse into the

heart of the Arabic world..............

 

Gotta admit that is a powerful article you posted. I realize most everyone in Kali-yuga has many faults but it always makes me wonder if on balance karmically the jews are more pious than the muslims and if so will Krishna end up favoring them in the conflict between the two. Not saying this is so but it looks like we are going to find out because it looks like the crap is hitting the fan one way or another. Its always interesting because we can speculate until the cows come home but Krishna being the supersoul knows perfectly who is pious and who is not. Ultimately this whole drama of the material world is under Krishna's control or at least I read in Prabhupada's books that not even a blade of grass moves without His sanction.