The Wrath of Israel or Who wants war in the Middle East?

krsna · July 17, 2006

While some of the populace in the Middle East is cheering the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah and their kidnapping of Israeli soldiers, it has now become clear by Saturday, that the result has been almost a total destruction of the infrastructures of both Gaza and Lebanon.

Misery has returned to haunt the daily lives of millions of these Mideasterners on both sides of the border. What was hoped to have been one of the best summers in the history of Lebanon, with tourists flocking from the Gulf and other parts of the world, has turned into a complete collapse of this vital Lebanese industry. Various Western governments are doing their utmost to evacuate their nationals from strife-torn Beirut.

As we are being bombarded by news about the war, it is helpful to read this realistic and objective analysis of the crisis by an Arab journalist. On Thursday, 13 July, he contributed this op-ed to the online daily Arabic language newspaper, Elaph, under this title: Hamas, Hezbollah, the Palestinian Cause, and the Destruction of Lebanon. The following are excerpts from the article, followed by my analysis and comments.

“We know that Israel is not an angel. However, it’s quite evident that Hamas’ childish action in Gaza was intended to derail the peaceful solution of the Palestinian Problem, and to embarrass Abbas thus justifying the non-adherence to the previous agreements with Israel. Hamas could not have been ignorant of the fact that by kidnapping an Israeli soldier, it was not going to get back one inch of Palestine, or get the liberation of the many prisoners held by Israel. The only way to achieve their freedom was through negotiations, a process that was rejected by Hamas. So, the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah have resulted in Israel’s launching and intensifying its attacks on Gaza and Lebanon.

“Hezbollah’s action inside Israel will not be for the benefit of the Palestinian Cause or the Lebanese people. It has brought about new terrors upon Lebanon as we are now witnessing Israel’s air attacks on Beirut and other parts of the country. Lebanon is paying a very high price for Hezbollah’s actions. There is no doubt at all that the goal of both Hamas and Hezbollah is to serve the interests of Syria and Iran in the region, as these two organizations are but stooges of Syria and Iran. While Syria encourages Hezbollah in its attacks on Israel, it is at the same time powerless and unable to launch one rocket from the Golan Heights into Israel.

“The Lebanese government is responsible for the adventures of Hezbollah. After all, as it claims to be the legitimate government of Lebanon, and not Hezbollah, it must act as a responsible government. It should not have allowed Hezbollah to become a state within a state, and to form an army alongside the Lebanese Army. There is no doubt that the government of Lebanon and its head of state are completely responsible for the actions of Hezbollah. They should have thought about the consequences of an Israeli response, and its impact upon the Lebanese people.

“It was to be expected that the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah would receive the applause of the rabble and those who have been deceived by the Islamists. They have rushed to applaud the actions of these radical groups, and jumped to criticise anyone who disputes the value of those childish adventures against a powerful state that is one thousand times stronger than the combined forces of Hamas, Hezbollah, Lebanon, and Syria. Those Islamist Palestinians continue to reject any peaceful solution, preferring to continue the struggle against Israel while chanting their slogan, “Kull Filistine, wa-illa,

Fala!” (All of Palestine, otherwise, no solution.) This is an empty slogan that leads nowhere. The refusal of Hamas and Arafat of the best possible agreement that was reached in the late 1990s under the sponsorship of the United States, and the military actions of Hamas on the eve of the Israeli elections allowed Sharon to win the elections, rather than those Israelis of the Labor Party who were calling for a peaceful and just resolution to the Palestinian Problem.

“In the end, there was no raison d’etre for Hamas to exist unless it could keep the fires burning, and to exploit the feelings of the Palestinian and Arab streets, with their delusions to throw the Jews into the sea and a complete liberation of the Palestinian land.

“Alas, how miserable and tragic can politics be in the Middle East. And how tragic that the future of the Palestinian and Lebanese people has become intimately linked to such Islamist organizations that receive their orders and support from outside sources!”

Analysis

Since Israel was born in May 1948, it had to fight several wars: 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982, and now in July 2006! While very little has changed in the Arab and Muslim worlds about Palestinian Problem or Cause, lately some Arab commentators are speaking with the voice of reason when dealing with this subject. This is quite a reassuring phenomenon. However, it still remains the voice of a minority. No sooner than such articles appear on the Internet, than negative responses pour in from all over the Arab world. Notwithstanding all the grief, losses, and sorrows that have come to the Middle East since 1948, many of its people still manifest their utter hatred of Israel. This is hard to believe, unless we take into account the fact that such an unfortunate attitude towards Jews and Christians finds its roots in the sacred text of Islam, the Qur’an and Hadith.

Comments

There is very little that I can add to this op-ed that I have shared with you in the previous paragraphs. The actions of Hamas and Hezbollah did not advance the cause of the Palestinians one inch; on the contrary, it has left all the previous “peaceful” agreements in shambles. The future will be darker than ever when the dust settles over the half-destroyed areas the Gaza Strip. The Arabs’ love for and fascination with slogans is legendary. The slogan, “Kull Filistine, wa-illa Fala!” (All of Palestine, otherwise, no solution,) sounds great as it is being chanted by the mobs in Gaza City or Ramallah, but its contents are Utopian. It has been the vain hope of Palestinians for more than half a century, and has brought them nothing but agony and despair.

As for Lebanon, it is too soon, as I write this article, to calculate the human, material, and financial costs of Hezbollah’s dangerous move. Sufficient to say that in a few days, the Israeli response has caused a much greater damage to this small country than what it had experienced during the civil war of 1975-1990! I can do no better than repeat the lamentation with which the op-ed ended: “Alas, how miserable and tragic can politics be in the Middle East. And how tragic that the future of the Palestinian and Lebanese people has become intimately linked to such Islamist organizations that receive their orders and support from outside sources!”

Bhakta Don Muntean · July 17, 2006

While some of the populace in the Middle East is cheering the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah and their kidnapping of Israeli soldiers, it has now become clear by Saturday, that the result has been almost a total destruction of the infrastructures of both Gaza and Lebanon.

Misery has returned to haunt the daily lives of millions of these Mideasterners on both sides of the border. What was hoped to have been one of the best summers in the history of Lebanon, with tourists flocking from the Gulf and other parts of the world, has turned into a complete collapse of this vital Lebanese industry. Various Western governments are doing their utmost to evacuate their nationals from strife-torn Beirut.

As we are being bombarded by news about the war, it is helpful to read this realistic and objective analysis of the crisis by an Arab journalist. On Thursday, 13 July, he contributed this op-ed to the online daily Arabic language newspaper, Elaph, under this title: Hamas, Hezbollah, the Palestinian Cause, and the Destruction of Lebanon. The following are excerpts from the article, followed by my analysis and comments.

“We know that Israel is not an angel. However, it’s quite evident that Hamas’ childish action in Gaza was intended to derail the peaceful solution of the Palestinian Problem, and to embarrass Abbas thus justifying the non-adherence to the previous agreements with Israel. Hamas could not have been ignorant of the fact that by kidnapping an Israeli soldier, it was not going to get back one inch of Palestine, or get the liberation of the many prisoners held by Israel. The only way to achieve their freedom was through negotiations, a process that was rejected by Hamas. So, the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah have resulted in Israel’s launching and intensifying its attacks on Gaza and Lebanon.

“Hezbollah’s action inside Israel will not be for the benefit of the Palestinian Cause or the Lebanese people. It has brought about new terrors upon Lebanon as we are now witnessing Israel’s air attacks on Beirut and other parts of the country. Lebanon is paying a very high price for Hezbollah’s actions. There is no doubt at all that the goal of both Hamas and Hezbollah is to serve the interests of Syria and Iran in the region, as these two organizations are but stooges of Syria and Iran. While Syria encourages Hezbollah in its attacks on Israel, it is at the same time powerless and unable to launch one rocket from the Golan Heights into Israel.

“The Lebanese government is responsible for the adventures of Hezbollah. After all, as it claims to be the legitimate government of Lebanon, and not Hezbollah, it must act as a responsible government. It should not have allowed Hezbollah to become a state within a state, and to form an army alongside the Lebanese Army. There is no doubt that the government of Lebanon and its head of state are completely responsible for the actions of Hezbollah. They should have thought about the consequences of an Israeli response, and its impact upon the Lebanese people.

“It was to be expected that the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah would receive the applause of the rabble and those who have been deceived by the Islamists. They have rushed to applaud the actions of these radical groups, and jumped to criticise anyone who disputes the value of those childish adventures against a powerful state that is one thousand times stronger than the combined forces of Hamas, Hezbollah, Lebanon, and Syria. Those Islamist Palestinians continue to reject any peaceful solution, preferring to continue the struggle against Israel while chanting their slogan, “Kull Filistine, wa-illa,

Fala!” (All of Palestine, otherwise, no solution.) This is an empty slogan that leads nowhere. The refusal of Hamas and Arafat of the best possible agreement that was reached in the late 1990s under the sponsorship of the United States, and the military actions of Hamas on the eve of the Israeli elections allowed Sharon to win the elections, rather than those Israelis of the Labor Party who were calling for a peaceful and just resolution to the Palestinian Problem.

“In the end, there was no raison d’etre for Hamas to exist unless it could keep the fires burning, and to exploit the feelings of the Palestinian and Arab streets, with their delusions to throw the Jews into the sea and a complete liberation of the Palestinian land.

“Alas, how miserable and tragic can politics be in the Middle East. And how tragic that the future of the Palestinian and Lebanese people has become intimately linked to such Islamist organizations that receive their orders and support from outside sources!”

Analysis

Since Israel was born in May 1948, it had to fight several wars: 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982, and now in July 2006! While very little has changed in the Arab and Muslim worlds about Palestinian Problem or Cause, lately some Arab commentators are speaking with the voice of reason when dealing with this subject. This is quite a reassuring phenomenon. However, it still remains the voice of a minority. No sooner than such articles appear on the Internet, than negative responses pour in from all over the Arab world. Notwithstanding all the grief, losses, and sorrows that have come to the Middle East since 1948, many of its people still manifest their utter hatred of Israel. This is hard to believe, unless we take into account the fact that such an unfortunate attitude towards Jews and Christians finds its roots in the sacred text of Islam, the Qur’an and Hadith.

Comments

There is very little that I can add to this op-ed that I have shared with you in the previous paragraphs. The actions of Hamas and Hezbollah did not advance the cause of the Palestinians one inch; on the contrary, it has left all the previous “peaceful” agreements in shambles. The future will be darker than ever when the dust settles over the half-destroyed areas the Gaza Strip. The Arabs’ love for and fascination with slogans is legendary. The slogan, “Kull Filistine, wa-illa Fala!” (All of Palestine, otherwise, no solution,) sounds great as it is being chanted by the mobs in Gaza City or Ramallah, but its contents are Utopian. It has been the vain hope of Palestinians for more than half a century, and has brought them nothing but agony and despair.

As for Lebanon, it is too soon, as I write this article, to calculate the human, material, and financial costs of Hezbollah’s dangerous move. Sufficient to say that in a few days, the Israeli response has caused a much greater damage to this small country than what it had experienced during the civil war of 1975-1990! I can do no better than repeat the lamentation with which the op-ed ended: “Alas, how miserable and tragic can politics be in the Middle East. And how tragic that the future of the Palestinian and Lebanese people has become intimately linked to such Islamist organizations that receive their orders and support from outside sources!”

Yes very clear isn't it - especially:

The Lebanese government is responsible for the adventures of Hezbollah. After all, as it claims to be the legitimate government of Lebanon, and not Hezbollah, it must act as a responsible government. It should not have allowed Hezbollah to become a state within a state, and to form an army alongside the Lebanese Army. There is no doubt that the government of Lebanon and its head of state are completely responsible for the actions of Hezbollah. They should have thought about the consequences of an Israeli response, and its impact upon the Lebanese people.

Kulapavana · July 17, 2006

JPost.com Staff, THE JERUSALEM POST Jul. 12, 2006

The Yesha Rabbinical Council blamed the attack on the north on Wednesday morning on a "weakening of our grip on the land of Israel."

The rabbis saw the attack as a "direct continuation of relinquishing [territory] and weakness."

The Council called on the IDF to ignore Christian morals and "exterminate the enemy in the north and the south." They advised that an emergency government be established to "fight the true enemy as is appropriate, and to rescind orders to destroy and evict Jews."

July 17, 2006

JPost.com Staff, THE JERUSALEM POST Jul. 12, 2006

The Yesha Rabbinical Council blamed the attack on the north on Wednesday morning on a "weakening of our grip on the land of Israel."

The rabbis saw the attack as a "direct continuation of relinquishing [territory] and weakness."

The Council called on the IDF to ignore Christian morals and "exterminate the enemy in the north and the south." They advised that an emergency government be established to "fight the true enemy as is appropriate, and to rescind orders to destroy and evict Jews."

Good for them I agree 100% Israel was too nice.

love thine enemy - didn`t work

love thine neighbor - nope didn`t work

turn the other cheek - hey look that one got blown up too.

In case it is too much for you to grasp please look back at the weeks and months before Israel was attacked. Israel was leaving the " Occupied Territories ". When they started forcing their own people out of settlements many people said it was suicide, that it would only lead to attacks as the enemy would be free to operate closer. Israel was attacked, nothing your narrow minded hatered can do to refute that fact.

Kulapavana · July 17, 2006

Israel was attacked, nothing your narrow minded hatered can do to refute that fact.

pretty brave words from someone who does not even sign his posts...

people there are cought up in a vicious circle of violence and hate. that vicious cycle only works to the advantage of the demonic people. they are the ones who do not want to see it broken.

------------

Source: Dow Jones

Published: July 17, 2006 Author: Staff

JERUSALEM (AP)--Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is opposed to the deployment of international forces in Lebanon in an effort to end bloodshed in the region, senior officials said Monday.

-------------

Israel wants to have a free hand in their slash and burn tactics that only generate more hate and violence.

Kulapavana · July 17, 2006

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Source: Aljazeera.Net</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Monday 17 July 2006,

Al-Umari has been arrested twice in 24 hours

Israel's police has arrested Aljazeera's bureau chief as he was reporting on the latest developments in the crisis with Lebanon from a village in northern Israel.

Walid al-Umari, the Arab satellite channel's bureau chief in the Palestinian Territories and Israel, was arrested on Monday by Israeli policemen, the pan-Arab television reported.

His identification papers were confiscated.

He and his crew were reporting from Kofor Yasif village, near the northern Israeli city of Akka on the Mediterranean coast.

Al-Umari was taken to a police station while the rest of the crew was told to stay in their cars.

Aljazeera is currently holding contacts with the Israeli police through Aljazeerae's legal adviser in the Palestinian territories to secure his release.

Israeli police briefly held on Sunday morning Aljazeera's correspondent in northern Israel, Elias Karam, near Haifa -the city that was repeatedly hit by Hezbollah's rockets.

Al-Umari was also detained by Israeli police on Sunday night for two hours after broadcasting from Haifa.

Bhakta Don Muntean · July 18, 2006

Good for them I agree 100% Israel was too nice.
love thine enemy - didn`t work

love thine neighbor - nope didn`t work

turn the other cheek - hey look that one got blown up too.

In case it is too much for you to grasp please look back at the weeks and months before Israel was attacked. Israel was leaving the " Occupied Territories ". When they started forcing their own people out of settlements many people said it was suicide, that it would only lead to attacks as the enemy would be free to operate closer. Israel was attacked, nothing your narrow minded hatered can do to refute that fact.

Again - simple facts posted by you [whomever you are] - wipe-out the rhetoric.

July 18, 2006

pretty brave words from someone who does not even sign his posts...

Truth requires no name

Kulapavana · July 21, 2006

"We were attacked so we killed the attacker, his wife and kids, his neighbours and friends, destroyed the entire neighbourhood, even the power plant that supplied them with power. We are righteous people..."

THESE ARE THE FACTS

Bhakta Don Muntean · July 21, 2006

"We were attacked so we killed the attacker, his wife and kids, his neighbours and friends, destroyed the entire neighbourhood, even the power plant that supplied them with power. We are righteous people..."

THESE ARE THE FACTS

No the facts are that Hezbolla was permitted to form a state within a state - they were permitted to form an army along side the national army in Lebanon - they are sitting [as elected members] in the government.

So with U.N. resolution 1559 it was resolved that Hezbollah would be disarmed - why didn't that happen?

Where were the efforts to do this - by the Lebanese government or - anyone else - for that matter.

So now we have a situation where the allegedly progressive government of Lebanon is bemoaning the results of all this.

Where was this government to prevent the abduction of the two servicemen? Where was this government - where was it's national army when this happened? Taking part in it no doubt.

Now we hear that the Lebanese army will help Hezbollah fight!

Indeed things look very bad in this operation - but - that is what you get with urban warfare - still people are thinking battlefields - but these are no more - instead wars are fought in cramped and crowded urban areas - so ask yourself - is Hezbollah using these urban areas as a base and - as a shield?

You too think that the state of Israel is not legitimate and I don't think you would shed a single tear if it were disolved - especially if by force.

This situation can be resolved - only to do this the free world has to at last confront political and religious extremists and put an end to the extremism - if not the extremists.

When matters like this go from - push to shove - I'm amazed by the lines that might end up being be drawn - even here in the midst of vaishnavas...

Bhakta Don Muntean · July 21, 2006

And ISKCON feels its the one truth, and Christians feel they are the way to god etc.
Believing ones faith to be the true one has nothing to do with race junior

A quick history lesson for you chipper, the Jews hate nobody, they just want to live their lives out in peace. They lived side by side with the muslims in what is now Israel up until the creation of the Muslim brotherhood who decided that Jews had no place in the world. I could continue the history lesson if you want.

"I could continue the history lesson if you want."

Yes that you could do that might help here - some don't want to hear it - but many more might - so if you have some time I'd say - please post this!

July 21, 2006

No the facts are that Hezbolla was permitted to form a state within a state - they were permitted to form an army along side the national army in Lebanon - they are sitting [as elected members] in the government.

So with U.N. resolution 1559 it was resolved that Hezbollah would be disarmed - why didn't that happen?

Where were the efforts to do this - by the Lebanese government or - anyone else - for that matter.

So now we have a situation where the allegedly progressive government of Lebanon is bemoaning the results of all this.

Where was this government to prevent the abduction of the two servicemen? Where was this government - where was it's national army when this happened? Taking part in it no doubt.

Now we hear that the Lebanese army will help Hezbollah fight!

Indeed things look very bad in this operation - but - that is what you get with urban warfare - still people are thinking battlefields - but these are no more - instead wars are fought in cramped and crowded urban areas - so ask yourself - is Hezbollah using these urban areas as a base and - as a shield?

You too think that the state of Israel is not legitimate and I don't think you would shed a single tear if it were disolved - especially if by force.

This situation can be resolved - only to do this the free world has to at last confront political and religious extremists and put an end to the extremism - if not the extremists.

When matters like this go from - push to shove - I'm amazed by the lines that might end up being be drawn - even here in the midst of vaishnavas...

Sorry for interrupting but isnt that like the material world always was and will be?

"O scion of Bharata [Arjuna], O conqueror of the foe, all living entities are born into delusion, overcome by the dualities of desire and hate."

Unless the conditioned souls awaken their dormant KC and come in contact with Krishna by serving Him nothing will change. Lets say there's so called peace - but what is this peace? Simply increasing the attachment to this material body, mind and senses. When the end comes and we have to leave this body all this material activities/achievements become null and void, useless waste of time. If the GBC would have at least one percent integrity they would send and go themselves to Israel and make Harinama Sankirtan yajna for at least one month with 300 devotees. This only could solve the problem after 60 years of war with Palestine. Everything else is just the same what happened before, back and forth without end. Politicians should be informed that they failed and told to shut up. They take such big salery from the tax payers and what did they achieve after so many years of fooling around?

Hundreds of families are leaving Israel every month - soon they all be gone, and the Politicians will go on to fight with their modern warfare till it becomes obvious that they are the actual culprits who caused the aggression for the past 50 years.

AncientMariner · July 21, 2006

Sorry for interrupting but isnt that like the material world always was and will be?
"O scion of Bharata [Arjuna], O conqueror of the foe, all living entities are born into delusion, overcome by the dualities of desire and hate."

Unless the conditioned souls awaken their dormant KC and come in contact with Krishna by serving Him nothing will change. Lets say there's so called peace - but what is this peace? Simply increasing the attachment to this material body, mind and senses. When the end comes and we have to leave this body all this material activities/achievements become null and void, useless waste of time. If the GBC would have at least one percent integrity they would send and go themselves to Israel and make Harinama Sankirtan yajna for at least one month with 300 devotees. This only could solve the problem after 60 years of war with Palestine. Everything else is just the same what happened before, back and forth without end. Politicians should be informed that they failed and told to shut up. They take such big salery from the tax payers and what did they achieve after so many years of fooling around?

Hundreds of families are leaving Israel every month - soon they all be gone, and the Politicians will go on to fight with their modern warfare till it becomes obvious that they are the actual culprits who caused the aggression for the past 50 years.

That just about sums it all up real nicely. Well done chap.

Bhakta Don Muntean · July 22, 2006

Sorry for interrupting but isnt that like the material world always was and will be?
"O scion of Bharata [Arjuna], O conqueror of the foe, all living entities are born into delusion, overcome by the dualities of desire and hate."

Unless the conditioned souls awaken their dormant KC and come in contact with Krishna by serving Him nothing will change. Lets say there's so called peace - but what is this peace? Simply increasing the attachment to this material body, mind and senses. When the end comes and we have to leave this body all this material activities/achievements become null and void, useless waste of time. If the GBC would have at least one percent integrity they would send and go themselves to Israel and make Harinama Sankirtan yajna for at least one month with 300 devotees. This only could solve the problem after 60 years of war with Palestine. Everything else is just the same what happened before, back and forth without end. Politicians should be informed that they failed and told to shut up. They take such big salery from the tax payers and what did they achieve after so many years of fooling around?

Hundreds of families are leaving Israel every month - soon they all be gone, and the Politicians will go on to fight with their modern warfare till it becomes obvious that they are the actual culprits who caused the aggression for the past 50 years.

This age of Kali will certainly be full of all activities of Kali, but this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of the age of Kali. In the rainy season certainly there will be profuse rainfalls, but that does not mean that men should not take means to protect themselves from the rains. It is the duty of the executive heads of state and others to take all necessary actions against the activities of Kali or the persons influenced by the age of Kali... [sB 1.17.28, purport]

So what do we suppose he meant here? He even gives us an example in the rains - we do not send a chanting party to deal with the rains - we send people with tools and materials to deal with the onslaught of rains.

Also in this way we can see that the terrorists - who really aren't ever going to change - what they want to do is change our world - not just the west nut all of it - and we're not talking change that any of the regions targeted would embrace to easily.

So these terrorists are clearly in the mode of ignorance - they clearly fit what Krishna himself says:

Arrogance, pride, anger, conceit, harshness and ignorance—these qualities belong to those of demonic nature, O son of Prtha. [bG 16.4]

Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them. [bG 16.7]

Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes perform sacrifices in name only without following any rules or regulations. Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demon becomes envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in his own body and in the bodies of others, and blasphemes against the real religion. [bG 16.17-18]

So that is a clear description of these agents of quarrel.

Here are other good quotes:

It appears that even in the higher planetary systems, to which people are promoted by pious activities, disturbances are created by asuras like Hiranyakasipu. No one in the three worlds can live in peace and prosperity without disturbance. [sB 7.4.9-12, purport]

Demons can do anything for their personal benefit, not considering what is pious or vicious. [sB 10.4.4, purport]

Nothing happens unless ordained by destiny. [sB 10.4.5, purport]

Recall king Kansa's heinous actions in killing his sisters children - just see how he tried to twist 'truth' to excuse himself before his sister and her husband.

Even Hiranyakasipu spoke wise sounding words - yet without a doubt he was a demon. The demigods fought demons like him and - still do without a doubt.

So when humans get that bad - aren't we supposed to fight them to stop them??

You mention sending a chanting party to Israel - heck why not send this party to all the nations like Iran Lebanon Syria - send them there and what would be the result?

What could they see in Israel that they couldn't in those other places? Some respect from the people there?

What do you think?

July 22, 2006

"I could continue the history lesson if you want."

Yes that you could do that might help here - some don't want to hear it - but many more might - so if you have some time I'd say - please post this!

BEFORE AMIN AL-HUSSEINI, JEWS AND MUSLIMS LIVED SIDE-BY-SIDE WITH MEMBERS OF OTHER RELIGIONS THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA FOR CENTURIES.

1893 Amin Al-Husseini. Born in Jerusalem under Ottoman rule

1914-1917 Husseini’s First Taste of Jihad

Amin Al-Husseini swears allegiance to the Ottoman Empire during the Armenian genocide. He is an officer stationed in Smyrna and participates first-hand in the Armenian genocide. One and a half million Christians are slaughtered under the sword of Islamic Jihad by the Ottoman Army.

From The Armenian Genocide (1914-1924) to the Arab Genocide (1917-today)

1917 Pan-Islamic Vision Comes to Palestine

Amin Al-Husseini returns to Palestine. He brings with him lessons of genocide and the vision of leading a Pan-Islamic empire, where Jews and Christians are not acceptable.

1920 The Violence Begins

1920/1921. Riots. Amin Al-Husseini becomes lead figure in organizing riots against locals. Amin Al-Husseini begins life-long campaign of inciting hate between Jews and Muslims under British Mandate of Palestine. He begins rule of terror over local Muslim leaders, who denounce him as an ignorant thug.

1921 Grand Mufti Against The Will of The People

The British, against the local Muslim vote, appoint Amin Al-Husseini as Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Amin Al-Husseini came in a poor fourth place in the vote. The Muslim community rejected his candidacy because he had not received any credible Islamic education. He was neither a Sheikh (religiously accredited leader) nor an Alim (Islamic scholar). He becomes the pre-eminent Arab power in Palestine. His brutality becomes notorious and is rejected by local Muslim leadership.

1922 Head of Supreme Muslim Council

Amin Al-Husseini is appointed Head of Supreme Muslim Council (1922-1937). He is hugely disappointed by the end of the Ottoman Empire under Ataturk. Husseini becomes fanaticized by the idea that he must restore the lost Islamic Empire. He vows to fight all Muslim seculars.

1922 Jerusalem

Amin Al-Husseini implements restoration of Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. He has the Dome gold-plated for the first time. Thereafter, Jerusalem takes on more importance as Holy Muslim site in the eyes of the Arab World.

1928 Husseini Joins Muslim Brotherhood

Muslim Brotherhood established in Egypt by Hassan El Banna in 1928. Amin Al-Husseini becomes a central member and ideological inspiration for the Muslim Brotherhood. Mother organization for today’s Egyptian Islamic Jihad and Hamas. The Muslim Brotherhood preaches Wahhabi Islam, which justifies violent means to rid the ‘Muslim world’ of its non-Islamic element. It envisions a Pan-Islamic Empire, where strict Islamic law rules over all.

1929 Hebron Massacre

Amin Al-Husseini organizes more riots in Palestine. He spreads false rumors to further turn the local Muslims against the Jews. Random murdering of Hebron Jews begins. Hebron Jewish community was over 2,000 years old.

1931 Founder of World Islamic Congress

Amin Al-Husseini starts to build his own political base. He preaches Islamic unity and creates the World Islamic Congress in 1931.

1933 Hitler Finds Arab Support

Arab Nazi political groups spring up throughout Middle East:

Young Egypt. Led by Muslim Brotherhood member Abdul Gamal Nasser (future Egyptian President).Young Egypt’s political slogan “One Folk, One Party, One Leader” is a direct translation from German of Nazi slogan.

Social Nationalist Party in Syria. Led by Anton Saada (known as the Syrian Fuhrer)

1936 Husseini Meets Hitler’s banker

Francois Genoud, later known as the Swiss Banker of the Hitler’s Third Reich, travels to Palestine to meet Amin Al-Husseini for the first time. Their relationship will continue well into the 1960’s.

1936 Palestine Riots Weapon of Choice Suicide Squads Muslim Leaders assassinated

Amin Al-Husseini is main organizer of riots. He organizes suicide squads against the local authorities. Applies Nazi methodology of “systematic extermination” of any Arab suspected of less than total loyalty to Pan-Islamic vision of Muslim Brotherhood. Any “non-Islamic” element is a threat to his Pan-Islamic vision. Many Muslim and Christian Palestinian intellectual leaders and clerics assassinated for protesting Husseini’s Islamic terror.

1936-1938. Murdered by Husseini’s men:

Sheikh Daoud Ansari ( Imam of Al Aqsa Mosque), Sheikh Ali Nur el Khattib (Al Aqsa Mosque), Sheikh Nusbi Abdal Rahim (Council of Muslim Religious Court), Sheikh Abdul el Badoui (Acre, Palestine), Sheikh El Namouri (Hebron), Nasr El Din Nassr (Mayor of Hebron). Between Feb. 1937 and Nov 1938, Eleven (11) Mukhtars (community leaders) and their entire families slain by Amin al Husseini’s men.

1937 On Hitler’s Payroll

Amin Al-Husseini visits Jerusalem German Consul. He meets SS Hauptschanfuehrer A.Eichman and SS Oberscherfuehrer H. Hagen to discuss “the Jewish question”. Amin Al-Husseini subsequently receives financial and military aid from Nazi Germany.

1941 Mufti Joins Hitler In Jihad against Britain

Amin Al-Husseini arrives in Rome, where he meets fascist leader Benito Mussolini, the genocidal butcher of Ethiopians in Africa. Mussolini vows to help the Palestinian cause against the Jews. From Rome, Husseini declares Fatwa-Jihad against Britain. He preaches the notion of Pan-Islamism, with vision of Muslim unity to further his cause.

1941 European Jews Must Not Make It To Palestine

Amin Al-Husseini in Berlin meets with Adolf Hitler and is active in the decision to exterminate all Jews through the infamous Final Solution.

Hitler was reportedly content with deporting the Jews out of Europe to Palestine. Husseini perceived this as a threat to his stronghold in Palestine and pushed successfully for the extermination of the European Jews.

1941 Christian Serbian Genocide

Husseini’s Personal Project 300,000Non-Muslim Deaths. Amin Al Husseini meets Croat Nazi A.Artukovic and M.Budak during WWII.

April 25th Amin Al-Husseini is made chief architectof Nazi offensive in Bosnia Serbian-Cyrillic alphabet outlawed. Orthodox Serbs forced to wear Blue armband. Jewish Serbs forced to wear Yellow armband.

While in Bosnia, Amin Al-Husseini takes the title “Protector of Islam”. One hundred thousand (100,000) Bosnian Muslims join the Nazi ranks. They seek Nazi approval to establish autonomous Nazi protectorate for Bosnian Muslims.

Amin Al-Husseini approves the Pejani Plan, calling for the extermination of the Serbian population. Nazi Germany refuses to implement the Pejani plan.

Bosnian ethnic cleansing under Amin al Husseini:

Orthodox Christian Serbs: 200,000 killed

Jewish Bosnians: 22,000 killed

Gypsies: over 40,000 killed

1942 10,000 Children Die

Amin Al-Husseini intervenes personally with Nazi High Command to block Red Cross offer of exchanging 10,000 Jewish children for Nazi prisoners of war. They will die in Hitler’s gas chambers.

1943 Nazi Muslims “Cream Of Islam”

Amin Al Husseini creates the Hanzar Division of Nazi Muslim Soldiers in Bosnia, which he calls ‘the cream of Islam’. It becomes the largest division of the Third Reich Army (26,000 men) and participates actively in the genocide of Serbian and Jewish populations. ‘Hanzar’ was the name given to the dagger worn by officers under the Turkish Ottoman Empire.Muslim soldiers pledge allegiance to Nazi regime in official statement prepared by Heinrich Himmler, head of SS Nazi troops.

1943 Prime Minister of Pan-Arab Government

Amin Al Husseini Meets Chief Commander of Nazi SS: Heinrich Himmler Amin Al-Husseini is made Prime Minister of Pan-Arab Government by Nazi regime. His headquarters are in Berlin. He plans construction of concentration camp in Nablus (Palestine) to implement the “final solution” in Palestine to exterminate the Jews there, as an extension of Hitler’s plan. Mufti becomes close friend of Heinrich Himmler, Head of SS (Nazi Officers). Amin Al-Husseini is given a private tour of Aushwitz death camp by Himmler, where he insists on seeing first-hand the murder of Europe’s Jews.

Nazi View of Islamic Religion

Head of Nazi SS troops Heinrich Himmler stated to Chief of Nazi propaganda Josef Goebbels:

“ have nothing against Islam because it educates the men in this division for me and promises them heaven if they fight and are killed in action. A very practical and attractive religion for soldiers.”

Nazi Islam

Heinrich Himmler, Head of SS, and close colleague of Amin Al-Husseini, financed and established Islamic Institute (‘Islamische Zentralinstitut’) in Dresden under the Mufti. The purpose was to create a generation of Islamic leaders that would continue to use Islam as a carrier for Nazi ideology into the 21st century.

Mufti Addresses Bosnian Muslim Nazi Troops

March 1, 1944. Amin Al-Husseini makes speech from Berlin addressing Muslim SS Nazi troops: “Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, History and Religion. This saves your honor. God is with you.”

Amin Al-Husseini is one of the founders of Arab League. Goal is to reinforce Pan-Islamic unity. Founding countries are: Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Yemen. Husseini is appointed to President in Absentia of Fourth Higher Committee of Arab League.

1946 British Forgive Husseini

Shockingly, the British give Amin Al-Husseini amnesty. He returns to Palestine.

1946 Leader of Muslim Brotherhood

Amin Al-Husseini is appointed leader of Muslim Brotherhood in Jerusalem. Wahhabi Islam becomes the perfect vector for Husseini’s policy of ethnic cleansing. He uses recently acquired Nazi methodology to implement his vision of an Arab World free of Jews (Juden-Rei in German).

1946 Wanted for Crimes Against Humanity

Yugoslavia requests extradition from Egypt of Amin Al-Husseini for War Crimes, and Crimes against Humanity. Egyptian government refuses to release him.

Yasser Arafat’s Teacher and Uncle:

Egyptian-born Yasser Arafat meets Amin Al-Husseini at age 17 and starts to work for him. Amin Al-Husseini allegedly great-uncle of Arafat, whose real name is Mohammed Abder Rauf Arafat Al-Kudwa Al-Husseini. Arafat reportedly changed his name intentionally to disguise his connection to Amin al-Husseini.

Amin Al-Husseini places Yasser Arafat in charge of arms procurement and shipment for the Mufti’s Irregular Forces: “The Holy Strugglers”

With UN recognition, Israel declares statehood. Arab League immediately declares Jihad (Holy War) against Israel. Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Jordan immediately declare war on the new Jewish state and invade Israel.

Amin Al-Husseini : “I declare a Holy War, My Muslim Brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!”

Four Wars

The Arab League, co-founded by Amin Al-Husseini, will support and declare all wars against the State of Israel in the 20th century. (1948, 1956, 1967, 1973) It will also support both Intifadas.

1949-1952 ODESSA Network

Losers Regroup.

ODESSA network. Egypt, home of Muslim Brotherhood, and Syria incorporate thousands of Nazi experts into Egyptian and Syrian army, government and propaganda service. Vatican heavily involved in providing travel visas for Nazi officers. Amin Al-Husseini is directly implicated in providing safe haven to ex-Nazis in Arab lands. He is the main connection with Francois Genoud, Swiss banker of Third Reich, who finances the ODESSA network with money stolen from European Jews.

Husseini-Genoud Connection Nazi Money To Fund Twenties Century Jihad

After World War II, Hitler’s Swiss banker, Francois Genoud, visited Amin Al-Husseini multiple times in Beirut.Genoud finances the ODESSA network. He sponsors Arab Nationalism with Nazi money. In Cairo and Tangiers, Genoud sets up import-export company called Arabo-Afrika, which is a cover to disseminate anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli propaganda.Genoud sets up Swiss bank accounts for North African liberation armies of Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria. In partnership with Syria, he sets up Arab Commercial Bank in Geneva. In 1962, he becomes Director of Arab People’s Bank in Algeria.

1962 President of World Islamic Congress Arab Lands Judenrei (Free of Jews)

Amin Al-Husseini becomes president of World Islamic Congress, which he founded. The Islamic Fundamentalists implement plan of making Arab lands Judenrei (free of Jews), as Hitler did in Europe. All Jewish communities of North Africa and Middle East are persecuted. Hundreds of thousands of Arab Jews, whose presence in Arab countries predates Islam by a thousand years, are killed or forced to leave their homelands.

Want any more LOL

This is the garbage people in Israel have grown up living with. I support them 100% and were it not for my many pieces of body art I would convert for the soul purpose of going over and joining the IDF and defending those beautiful souls that are the Israelies.

July 22, 2006

This age of Kali will certainly be full of all activities of Kali, but this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord should sit down tightly and become callous to the reactions of the age of Kali. In the rainy season certainly there will be profuse rainfalls, but that does not mean that men should not take means to protect themselves from the rains. It is the duty of the executive heads of state and others to take all necessary actions against the activities of Kali or the persons influenced by the age of Kali... [sB 1.17.28, purport]

So what do we suppose he meant here? He even gives us an example in the rains - we do not send a chanting party to deal with the rains - we send people with tools and materials to deal with the onslaught of rains.

Also in this way we can see that the terrorists - who really aren't ever going to change - what they want to do is change our world - not just the west nut all of it - and we're not talking change that any of the regions targeted would embrace to easily.

So these terrorists are clearly in the mode of ignorance - they clearly fit what Krishna himself says:

Arrogance, pride, anger, conceit, harshness and ignorance—these qualities belong to those of demonic nature, O son of Prtha. [bG 16.4]

Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them. [bG 16.7]

Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes perform sacrifices in name only without following any rules or regulations. Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demon becomes envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in his own body and in the bodies of others, and blasphemes against the real religion. [bG 16.17-18]

So that is a clear description of these agents of quarrel.

Here are other good quotes:

It appears that even in the higher planetary systems, to which people are promoted by pious activities, disturbances are created by asuras like Hiranyakasipu. No one in the three worlds can live in peace and prosperity without disturbance. [sB 7.4.9-12, purport]

Demons can do anything for their personal benefit, not considering what is pious or vicious. [sB 10.4.4, purport]

Nothing happens unless ordained by destiny. [sB 10.4.5, purport]

Recall king Kansa's heinous actions in killing his sisters children - just see how he tried to twist 'truth' to excuse himself before his sister and her husband.

Even Hiranyakasipu spoke wise sounding words - yet without a doubt he was a demon. The demigods fought demons like him and - still do without a doubt.

So when humans get that bad - aren't we supposed to fight them to stop them??

You mention sending a chanting party to Israel - heck why not send this party to all the nations like Iran Lebanon Syria - send them there and what would be the result?

What could they see in Israel that they couldn't in those other places? Some respect from the people there?

What do you think?

Bhakta Don Muntean: "So what do we suppose he meant here?"

Dear son, Bhakta Don Muntean! You're a very sincere and spiritualy inclined person, thanks for your contributions at this forum, go on with your good work! Your point is correct - enemies/aggressors/terrorists have to be properly taken care of!

However, Prabhupada relates here to a Vaishnava government, a government which aims to install spiritual principles in the state. Non-Vaishnava governments simply keep their citizens stuck in the bodily concept of karma existence, transmigrating from one body to the next. Such kind of materialist vs materialists wars for attaining so called peace in a materialistic society of meat-eaters etc. wont get the blessings of the Lord and as we have seen before causes one thing only, to seek endlessly bloody revenge for the vicitms of such wars. Of course chanting parties have to be sent practically everywhere but Israel is at least a place where devotees are not shot like at Muslim places and the sound of Harinama will spread in the whole region and purify the entire Middle East. Kamsa, Hiranyakasipu - all those demons are a bit different in that sense that they just play like actors to spark the wrath of the Lord and to be killed by Him and attain liberation.

The tricky illusory energy maya works as such that at the beginning of every war all the parties involved think with great conviction, "this is a very special circumstance, this is a totally different, very severe conflict, we have to fight! All other wars were more or less nonsensical but this fight is unavoidable!"

In this way both parties are fooled by maya and as the fighting proceeds all observers realize on TV, wait a minute, isnt that the same old stupid way wars take place and end up?

Srila Prabhupada: "In this age of Kali the propensity for mercy is almost nil. Consequently there is always fighting and wars between men and nations. Men do not understand that because they unrestrictedly kill so many animals, they also must be slaughtered like animals in big wars. This is very much evident in the Western countries. In the West, slaughterhouses are maintained without restriction, and therefore every fifth or tenth year there is a big war in which countless people are slaughtered even more cruelly than the animals. Sometimes during war, soldiers keep their enemies in concentration camps and kill them in very cruel ways. These are reactions brought about by unrestricted animal-killing in the slaughterhouse and by hunters in the forest. Proud, demoniac persons do not know the laws of nature, or the laws of God. Consequently, they unrestrictedly kill poor animals, not caring for them at all. In the Krsna consciousness movement, animal-killing is completely prohibited. One is not accepted as a bona fide student in this movement unless he promises to follow the four regulative principles: no animal-killing, no intoxication, no illicit sex and no gambling. This Krsna consciousness movement is the only means by which the sinful activities of men in this Kali-yuga can be counteracted." (SB 4.26.5 P King Puranjana Goes to the Forest to Hunt, and His Queen Becomes Angry)

--------------------------

Dear Bhakta Don Muntean, I'm on a longer travel and unable to read this forum. Again thanks for your dedication to uplift human society in this heavy age of disorientation! Go on and G_d will bless you!

your friend,

Herschel K.

Bhakta Don Muntean · July 22, 2006

Bhakta Don Muntean: "So what do we suppose he meant here?"

Dear son, Bhakta Don Muntean! You're a very sincere and spiritualy inclined person, thanks for your contributions at this forum, go on with your good work! Your point is correct - enemies/aggressors/terrorists have to be properly taken care of!

However, Prabhupada relates here to a Vaishnava government, a government which aims to install spiritual principles in the state. Non-Vaishnava governments simply keep their citizens stuck in the bodily concept of karma existence, transmigrating from one body to the next. Such kind of materialist vs materialists wars for attaining so called peace in a materialistic society of meat-eaters etc. wont get the blessings of the Lord and as we have seen before causes one thing only, to seek endlessly bloody revenge for the vicitms of such wars. Of course chanting parties have to be sent practically everywhere but Israel is at least a place where devotees are not shot like at Muslim places and the sound of Harinama will spread in the whole region and purify the entire Middle East. Kamsa, Hiranyakasipu - all those demons are a bit different in that sense that they just play like actors to spark the wrath of the Lord and to be killed by Him and attain liberation.

The tricky illusory energy maya works as such that at the beginning of every war all the parties involved think with great conviction, "this is a very special circumstance, this is a totally different, very severe conflict, we have to fight! All other wars were more or less nonsensical but this fight is unavoidable!"

In this way both parties are fooled by maya and as the fighting proceeds all observers realize on TV, wait a minute, isnt that the same old stupid way wars take place and end up?

Srila Prabhupada: "In this age of Kali the propensity for mercy is almost nil. Consequently there is always fighting and wars between men and nations. Men do not understand that because they unrestrictedly kill so many animals, they also must be slaughtered like animals in big wars. This is very much evident in the Western countries. In the West, slaughterhouses are maintained without restriction, and therefore every fifth or tenth year there is a big war in which countless people are slaughtered even more cruelly than the animals. Sometimes during war, soldiers keep their enemies in concentration camps and kill them in very cruel ways. These are reactions brought about by unrestricted animal-killing in the slaughterhouse and by hunters in the forest. Proud, demoniac persons do not know the laws of nature, or the laws of God. Consequently, they unrestrictedly kill poor animals, not caring for them at all. In the Krsna consciousness movement, animal-killing is completely prohibited. One is not accepted as a bona fide student in this movement unless he promises to follow the four regulative principles: no animal-killing, no intoxication, no illicit sex and no gambling. This Krsna consciousness movement is the only means by which the sinful activities of men in this Kali-yuga can be counteracted." (SB 4.26.5 P King Puranjana Goes to the Forest to Hunt, and His Queen Becomes Angry)

--------------------------

Dear Bhakta Don Muntean, I'm on a longer travel and unable to read this forum. Again thanks for your dedication to uplift human society in this heavy age of disorientation! Go on and G_d will bless you!

your friend,

Herschel K.

Thank you for your kind and encouraging words!

With respect to the noted quote [sB 1.17.28, purport] Prabhupada is casting a wider net than 'vaishnava' in his use of these words:

this does not mean that the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men, or above all the devotees of the Lord

So with that we see that he places the greatest responsibility on the devotees of the Lord - however - he clearly mentions non-vaishnava's with the use of these words; the leaders of society, the executive heads, the learned and intelligent men - do you see what I mean here?

Of course he presents a very rigid standard in that purport - one where he seems to have no mercy for people who indulge in intoxication.

We do know that when we form a point we have to counter it to his other statements and clearly Prabhupada wasn't merciless and wanting to kill those who could not rise above their attachments to intoxicants - so what is he saying then?

In this one other purport - he says:

In this material world every living entity has got natural propensity for sex life, meat-eating and intoxication. There is already propensities. You haven’t got to teach. Nobody teaches in the school how to enjoy sex life. Everyone knows. So these things are natural. Then why it has been taken by the Vedas? This should be the question, that “Without marriage, sex life is going on. Why this show of marriage?” People may question this. But there is need. Because Vedas have taken this marriage. Marriage is Vedic. So why Vedas have taken this marriage? No, to restrict it. Without marriage, sex life (is) unrestricted. And as soon as it comes to the Vedic principles, it becomes restricted. So the idea is to restrict. People are accustomed to this habit, and on account of this habit, they gradually become implicated with the laws of material nature. Therefore there is some restriction. Just like anyone can distill liquor at home. It is not very difficult thing. Anyone can do it. In India they do it. It is called dheno-mada. Dheno-mada means... Mada means liquor, and dheno means from rice. Just like we cook rice, so you cook rice and keep it in water for a few days or for a month, it becomes liquor. It becomes liquor. So why government has restricted, “No, you cannot manufacture liquor; you have to purchase from the licensed shop.” Why? That is restriction. If the government would have allowed that “You can distill liquor and drink it,” then there was no limit. Everyone would have. There is no restriction.

So restriction is required. Why? It is because it is bad. Nobody restricts that “You don’t manufacture chapati.” No. [Lecture SB, 1.8.52]

...although the government may license liquor shops, this does not mean that liquor shops should be opened unrestrictedly and illicit liquor smuggled. Licensing is meant for restricting. No one has to take a license for sugar, wheat or milk because there is no need to restrict these things. [sB 4.22.24, purport]

If we become even partially pure...then lust and greed, the material diseases of the citizens, will be reduced. [sB 4.20.21, purport]

In your quote [ [sB 4.26.5 Purort] Prabhupada connects the sufferings in war - to the human abuse and slaughter of animals [a problem that is found in every nation on the planet] - yet - the immediate causes of the suffering may be something else - like terrorists acting in the modes of passion and ignorance.

However - this doesn't make the terrorists into 'agents of karma'.

This brings a question - which is - if these wars are caused by the noted actions of the global populations - does that then support that we should just let karma unfold and take its course or - do we do as Prabhupada notes - not sit down 'tightly' and become callous to the reactions of kali yuga and - those driven by it.

He says:

In the rainy season certainly there will be profuse rainfalls, but that does not mean that men should not take means to protect themselves from the rains. [sB, 1.17.28, purport]

Responsible leaders have to see the proper application of such changes - according to the particular time circumstances and - the segments of society concerned.

Prabhupada places responsibility [for action] on nearly every sane person to do something about this problem and - for some it means fighting terror.

Of course - if we really want to reduce the risks of this age we are as a collective going to have to do something about the polluted atomosphere of this age.

Meat eating and unrestricted sex-life are the two worst factors in this polluted age - but - just like when there is a fire - when the bucket brigade comes - do they stand around talking about the cause of the fire or - do they put it out? Sort of like that is our situation.

It would be nice if people would understand these two points and see that this is the basic issue - and no - it doesn't take 'conversion' to see and - deal with it.

I wonder though - when there is this time of emergency - we must pass the buckets and - we'll see about the causes and - we'll see to the collective 'redactions' to our ways later - after the threat is gone.

Again - thank you for your kind words - may the Supreme Personality guide and protect you at all times and in all places!

Yer servant,

suchandra · July 23, 2006

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=550 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>There Could Have been Peace

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by Mark H. Gaffney – July 22, 2006

As I write, Israelis troops are massing on the Lebanon border. I feel a deep sense of deja vu, not to mention about equal measures of frustration and exasperation. I suspect that many Americans share similar feelings. There is nothing new, here, after all. We’ve seen it all, before. Is there no end to the conflict?

Still, it’s important to realize that this war did not need to happen. There was nothing inevitable about it. There could have been peace. Few Americans probably remember, but in 2002 Saudi Arabia offered Israel a full peace treaty.

“What?!” You are probably reacting. “You must be joking!”

No, I am not joking. Back in 2002 Saudi Arabia offered Israel a full peace treaty. The offer was extraordinary in that it went much further than any previous Arab peace initiative had, before. The Saudis offered not only to recognize Israel, they offered normalized relations, including full trade, economic ties, cultural exchanges: in short, an end to the Arab-Israeli conflict. The only condition was that Israel must abide by UN Security Council resolutions on Palestine.

The 2002 Saudi peace offer was a trial balloon, but it had broad support in the Arab world. It had been drafted at an Arab League summit shortly before being announced. For more details go to <www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm>

An end to the conflict was within reach in 2002, IF the US government had prevailed upon Israel to respond favorably. Of course, this didn’t happen. At the time the Bush administration had other priorities. The neocons were busily preparing to go to war with Saddam Hussein. Toward that end Bush operatives scoured the Middle East trying to drum up support. Everyone told them: “Don’t make war on Iraq. Saddam is no threat. Solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, instead.” It was excellent advice. Did the Bush administration listen? Of course not. Instead of a peace initiative we got the disaster in Iraq.

For its part, Israel was also preoccupied in 2002: destroying hundreds of millions of dollars worth of infrastructure in Gaza and the West Bank built up during the failed Oslo process. Israel's PM Ariel Sharon did not actually reject the 2002 Saudi peace offer. As far as I know he never responded to it at all. Sharon dismissed it. And the US press quickly forgot all about it. Today, it's a safe bet that few Americans are aware that it even happened.

But it did happen. In 2002 the Arab world extended an olive branch to Israel and Ariel Sharon dismissed it. This should not be surprising. Over the course of his long life Sharon opposed, and on occasion worked to undermine, every peace initiative in Israel’s history.

Sharon evidently decided that there was no need to sit down and negotiate a peace settlement, given Israel's vast military strength, its nuclear supremacy, and the dutiful US protector at the UN to shield Israel from international accountability.

Let’s face it, political negotiations are a messy business and they require painful compromise. Why go that route when you can simply impose your will upon the neighborhood?

Israel’s massive nuclear arsenal was supposed to make the small nation feel safe and give Israel the confidence to negotiate from strength. But it didn't have that effect. It turned out that a strong Israel had no incentive to negotiate; period. End of story.

Sharon also evaded negotiations by perpetrating a lie: that there is no one to talk to. And he succeeded brilliantly. Why confabulate a small fib when you can tell a whopper? The Bush administration bought the lie, and so did the ever malleable US media. This explains Israel's policy of unilateral action in recent years: the expanding settlements and cantonization of the West Bank, the security wall, etc. During the past year PM Olmert, Sharon’s successor, has simply continued the policies of his former boss.

There is only one small catch. Unilateral action doesn't lead to peace. It only breeds more conflict.

The simplest of truths is that there is ALWAYS someone to talk to. If many Americans have not figured this out, it’s because the US government and the US media have an ingenious capacity to shape-shift events. Time and again we've seen actual history transformed before our eyes into kind of a virtual reality. Most Americans still don't understand that despite our free press we do not get the news raw. We get it filtered through a glass darkly. This is why the “news” at times can seem incomprehensible, especially when it comes from the Mideast.

A prime example occurred last year when Israel withdrew several thousand settlers from Gaza. The US press trumpeted this as a noble step toward peace. It might have been true, IF the Gaza withdrawal was motivated by a desire for improved relations with the Palestinians. Yet, the Palestinians were never consulted, neither before, during, nor after the operation.

Events in recent days have shown that Israel’s Gaza withdrawal was motivated more by military expedience than by a desire for peace. The withdrawal of a few thousand settlers made it a lot easier for the Israeli army to seal off Gaza.

Recently, Ha'aretz reported that Israel's Gaza incursion, which continues as I write, was planned many weeks before the capture of the Israeli soldier, which became the pretext for what has transpired. Israel’s plan, all along, was to punish the Palestinians for democratically electing a more militant Hamas-led government.

You do this by closing the ports of entry, buzzing Gaza city with F-16s at rooftop level, breaking windows and scaring everyone out of their wits, especially children, and by shelling the area indiscriminately with artillery and tanks. It also helps to bomb Gaza's sole electric generation plant, so that in the heat of summer up to a million people now have no lights, no refrigeration, no air conditioning, and no clean water. As a result, hundreds of thousands of children, women, elderly, as well as the general population, will soon be – if not already – drinking unsafe water; and this will continue for many months. Gaza today predictably faces a health crisis, on top of everything else.

This is how you terrorize an entire population.

In fact, Israel’s ongoing treatment of Gaza is comparable to the collective punishment meted out by the Nazis to Jews trapped in the Warsaw ghetto during World War II. Yet, somehow the US press has failed to report what is happening. We are expected to believe that Hezbollah’s raid on the northern border, which triggered the current fighting in Lebanon, was an isolated act of terrorism, perpetrated solely out of hatred for Israel, when in fact it was obviously an attempt to relieve the pressure on the Palestinians in Gaza, the world’s largest prison.

As I write the US has granted Israel a license to kill in Lebanon. Washington’s refusal to press for an immediate cease fire means the violence will continue. The longer it goes on the greater the chance the fighting will spread to Syria; which has a security arrangement with Iran. Today the world can only hold its breath...

Mark H. Gaffney's first book, Dimona the Third Temple, was a pioneering study of Israel's nuclear weapons program.

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http://www.mayyoubeblessedmovie.com/

suchandra · July 23, 2006

Funny, If I were Israel I would not have responded either. Where in that peace agreement are the Arab concessions ? Where is the promise to disarm Hamas and Hezbulla and Islamic Jihad ? All I see is basically a masked threat, " You want peace, do what we say " The Arab league speaks of UN resolutions yet they are the ones who have started all the past wars with Israel with the one goal of destroying a state that is recognised by the UN.

Good, you sit in front your TV and know everything how it is to be in war. Reality looks different - a mass exodus out of Israel will start.

May be there will be a chance to open a Vaishnava village in Jerusalem. :rolleyes:

Jews who leave Israel for good
By Lawrence Smallman

Every Jewish immigrant that enters Israel is unwittingly taking part in a continual referendum on its chances of survival. But many of those who enter Israel also choose to leave it.

For many of them, involvement in actively subjugating Palestinian refugees in the Occupied Territories and the pressure of living the Zionist ideology every day is just too much.

Igor Dzhadan describes his situation simply. He emigrated to Israel in 1990 but returned home in 2001, blaming what he called the country's "sectarian nature".

"I feel more comfortable in Russia. My life prospects wouldn't be worse than in Israel. I didn't like it. I'm used to operating in an open society where people don't ask you to what community you belong."

Dzhadan was twice required to serve in areas of heavy resistance in Bethlehem and Hebron. "I had to wait during operations to see whether there would be any wounded that I would have to treat... I saw dead bodies."

Boruch Gorin, head of the public relations department at the Russian Federation of Jewish Communities, finds similar sentiments among many of the tens of thousands of Russian Jews that continue to head home.

Dangerous place

Thousands complained of the pressure of living like a Zionist ideologue rather than as a human being. "Living in Israel is an ideology," he says.

Olmert welcomes an immigrant

already wearing army uniform

In the past month - and with much media fanfare - some 450 Jews decided to leave the safety of North America and France to live in what must be the most dangerous place for Jews in the world.

Crowds greeted the new arrivals at Ben Gurion International airport, some even had their hands shaken by Prime Minister Olmert.

Such a warm welcome is easy to understand. "If the current population trends continue, it is estimated that Jews will be outnumbered by non-Jews in the territory that Israel controls within 10 to 15 years," the BBC reported in July.

But winning the population battle is proving impossibly difficult - particularly when more Jews are leaving Israel than moving in.

Net immigration

Official Israeli sources contain no consistent, annual information about rates of emigration from the country or profiles of those leaving.

Known within the Zionist ideological lexicon as yeridah, government statisticians do not even use the "e" word.

But in a presentation at the Association for Israel Studies in Jerusalem, Ian Lustick of Pennsylvania University has described as much as it is possible to know about emigration - given the lack of official data.

"It is quite likely that the real net immigration of Jews into Israel in 2005 was either near zero or negative," he said. And as the al-Aqsa Intifda continues, the figures are not likely to change.

With fewer than 22,000 immigrants registered for 2005, Lustick also believes only around 30% of these immigrants were classified by the government as Jewish.

'Missing citizens'

A major phenomenon is developing. New arrivals are deciding to leave almost as soon as they arrive. Of the 1000 Jews arriving from North America in 2003, half have now left to go back home.

"Before our eyes Israel is becoming ultra-Orthodox, nationalist and Arab. It is becoming a society that has no sense of a future", Avraham Burg, former speaker of the Knesset

Evidence for these "missing citizens" is easy to come by. The head of manpower for the Israel Defence Forces reported in mid-2005 that 34% of Israelis of conscription age were not serving in the army - a significant number of whom had "left the country prior to their recruitment and lived abroad".

In Haaretz, journalist Aluf Benn reported sharp increases in Israelis applying for citizenship papers at the German, Polish, Czech, Austrian and Slovakian embassies in Israel in 2004 and 2005.

Even a Market Watch poll commissioned by the newspaper Maariv found 20% of adult Israelis had recently considered living in a different country, and more than half of these "would like their children to grow up outside Israel".

Changing attitudes

Haaretz published a lengthy interview with Avraham Burg, the former speaker of the Knesset. The son of Interior Minister Yosef Burg, Avraham, had shocked many Israelis with an article he published in the International Herald Tribune entitled A Failed Israeli Society is Collapsing.

"When you ask Israelis today whether their children will be living here 25 years down the road, you don't get an unequivocally positive answer.

"You don't hear a booming yes. On the contrary. Young people are being encouraged to study abroad. Their parents are getting them European passports ... a whole society is living here that has no faith in its future.

"Before our eyes, Israel is becoming ultra-Orthodox, nationalist and Arab. It is becoming a society that has no sense of a future, no narrative and no forces to maintain itself."

Government line

Even Tel Aviv estimates that "Israeli citizens living outside the country" - that is, emigrants - now number between 450,000 and 900,000, depending on whether you count children born outside the country.

Immigrant youths are forced to

do unpleasant military service

According to representatives of the Central Bureau of Statistics testifying before the Knesset's Committee on Absorption, 270,000 Israeli citizens emigrated between 1990 and 2001.

In other words, a third of all immigrants in the same period have returned home.

But in January 2004, Yuri Shtern, chairman of the Knesset Interior Committee, asserted that these figures under-reported the problem.

He said the figures "did not include statistics for yeridah in the last two years, during which the number of those abandoning the country for Russia has increased very significantly".

Panic reaction

Drastic ideas to stem the tide include the wholesale conversion of Beni Menashe immigrants from India and Peruvian Indians to West Bank settlements as well as quick and easy conversion procedures for thousands of non-Jewish immigrants from the former Soviet Union.

Other suggestions are more traditional. Yisrael Harel, a veteran Gush Emunim activist and former editor of the Nekuda newspaper, published an article in April 2003 to propose "a solution".

The Egyptian and Jordanian governments, he suggests, should accept masses of Palestinian refugees and Israel must abandon the Gaza Strip and the heavily Arab areas of the West Bank.

"The Jewish majority between the Jordan and the sea is disappearing day by day, and without an absolute Jewish majority the State of Israel will not be able to survive for long.

"Security for an absolute Jewish majority is a crucial foundation for any plan ... every solution [to the Palestinian presence], that does not guarantee a Jewish majority in the land of Israel is no solution."

Bhakta Don Muntean · July 23, 2006

a mass exodus out of Israel will start.
May be there will be a chance to open a Vaishnava village in Jerusalem.

Why don't you stop fooling yourself and just go surrender [become one of] to those crazy Islamists then you'll feel better right? Oh and there will NOT be any mass exodus out of Israel....

July 23, 2006

Good, you sit in front your TV and know everything how it is to be in war. Reality looks different - a mass exodus out of Israel will start.
May be there will be a chance to open a Vaishnava village in Jerusalem.

LOL sit in front of my TV. Sorry don`t watch it, as for your tone I would suggest you stop reading the internet ( I know everything on the internet is true ) and travel a bit it may open your eyes

Bhakta Don Muntean · July 23, 2006

May be there will be a chance to open a Vaishnava village in Jerusalem.

There is an ISKCON temple in Israel - is there any in Iran Syria and these other Middle east nations?

I wonder about this comment you wrote - do you really think that there would be permitted a 'Vaishnava village in Jerusalem' if all the Israelis left there?

Why do you think that the radical Islamists would permit its building?

When you are defending these terrorist groups and their leaders you do say some peculiar things... :crazy:

suchandra · July 24, 2006

There is an ISKCON temple in Israel - is there any in Iran Syria and these other Middle east nations?

I wonder about this comment you wrote - do you really think that there would be permitted a 'Vaishnava village in Jerusalem' if all the Israelis left there?

Why do you think that the radical Islamists would permit its building?

When you are defending these terrorist groups and their leaders you do say some peculiar things...

In 1966 there was a quite similiar situation:

The following is an excerpt from a lecture by His Divine Grace on Bhagavad-gita 4.19 in New York, August 5, 1966.

Nava-yauvana: Also they say that religions are the causes of war. In Lebanon now the Christians are killing the Muslims and the Muslims are killing the Christians in the name of...

Prabhupada: And the Communists are killing capitalists and capitalists are killing Communists. What is that? Is that religion? Then? How you can stop war? Because you are animal, you fight, you can give some name, either on religious ground or this philosophical ground. But because you are animal you will fight. You can give a different name. That is different thing. But because you are dogs, you'll fight. The real religion is why they will fight? Religion means to accept God. So if you are Muslim, I am Hindu, if I accept God, if You accept God, then where is fight? If we accept that God is the proprietor, God is the father, then where is the question of fight? Because we are not religious, therefore fight. Otherwise, if you accept God is the supreme father, if I accept God is the supreme, why fight?

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=550 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>Hell in the Holy Lands

</TD></TR><TR><TD>

Uzi Mahnaimi, Marie Colvin, Hala Jaber, Tony-Allen Mills and David Cracknell – The Sunday Times July 23, 2006

On the border with Lebanon a unit of elite Israeli commandos was sheltering from the heat of battle and the sun under a huge oak. Among them was Max, the son of an eminent Jewish lawyer in London. As the occasional Katyusha rocket flew overhead, he was checking text messages from his mother who feared for his safety.

Max, 24, had emigrated to Israel after graduating from Cambridge.

He was performing his national service when the capture of two Israeli soldiers in a raid by Hezbollah, the Islamic militant group based in Lebanon, ignited the current crisis.

Last week he found himself in the thick of the fighting as commando units struck into Lebanese territory in search of fortified bunkers built by Arab militants next to Israel’s northern border.

“My parents are obviously worried and keep texting me, but at the same time they are also very proud of me for defending the state of Israel,” said Max, who asked that his surname not be used in case there were reprisals against his family in London.

His parents had reason to fret. Despite more than a week of unrelenting Israeli bombardment of Hezbollah positions, Max’s Hornet battalion and several other units had run into serious trouble.

“We entered a scrubby area looking for Hezbollah rocket launchers,” said one of the commandos hunting the underground sites used by the militiamen to target northern Israeli cities.

The soldiers quickly found a steel trapdoor hidden by bushes. “We opened the door and discovered a well-equipped underground bunker with several rooms for up to 10 Hezbollah fighters,” the soldier said.

The bunker was empty, but as an Israeli soldier came back through the trapdoor, a Hezbollah sniper struck, killing him with a bullet through the eye.

“We were almost immediately ambushed. The Hezbollah know every rock and bush there,” said another of the soldiers. “We called in a chopper and it fired missiles. We used to fight the Palestinians, but these are a different breed of warriors, these Shi’ites.”

After a heavy gun battle, the Israeli commandos withdrew.

Another unit was operating nearby in the Lebanese border village of Maroun-a-Ras. Though it had been flattened by Israeli air attacks soon after its residents had fled, Hezbollah fighters remained in their bunkers, waiting for ground forces to arrive.

On Thursday afternoon, Major Benjamin Hillman led his Israeli unit straight into another ambush.

Both the major and one of his men were shot dead. When the remaining soldiers tried to turn back, they were ambushed again from another flank. Four more soldiers were killed.

It was only under heavy artillery cover and with the help of a tank unit that the remaining soldiers were able, two hours later, to scramble back to the Israeli side.

Resting by the towering oak tree, Max looked pale and tired as he stretched out his legs, still in his battle boots. He insisted he was ready to carry on fighting Hezbollah “to uproot them from their outposts”. But like many Israelis — and others — he was wondering how long that might take.

Any hope that air power alone could destroy the threat posed by Hezbollah had evaporated. The militants, long backed by Syria and Iran, were better armed, better organised and better dug-in than expected.

Israel, it emerged yesterday, has asked the US to rush through the delivery of precision-guided bombs, part of an arms deal agreed last year. Last week the move was swiftly agreed by the White House, and the weapons will be delivered within days. They are likely to include GBU-28s, 5,000lb laser-guided “bunker busters”.

This weekend thousands of troops are massing on the border, as Israel prepares to create a “sterile strip” between itself and its enemies. Neither Washington nor London appears in any hurry to see an early end to the fighting, which has killed more than 360 Lebanese and at least 34 Israelis, wounded thousands, displaced hundreds of thousands and wreaked widespread devastation on southern Lebanon.

As Tony Blair loyally toed the White House line of allowing Israel a free hand, Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, completed her leisurely preparations for a brief diplomatic tour of the region.

Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan have all blamed Hezbollah for provoking the conflict, and Rice will reportedly be seeking to gather an “umbrella” of moderate Arab allies who could yet reinvigorate the American-led drive for democracy in the Middle East.

White House officials are using the term “umbrella” because “coalition” carries too many negative connotations of unresolved struggle in Iraq.

Rice will not leave Washington until later today, and it was clear from her pronounced lack of urgency that President George W Bush had torn up previous manuals for Middle East crisis intervention. The White House played down the seriousness of the Lebanon crisis, characterising the death and destruction as the “birth pangs of a new Middle East”.

Officials argued that it was pointless to negotiate with Hezbollah and that only its eradication could create the necessary conditions for a durable political settlement. The crisis was “an opportunity, not a setback”, insisted one senior US official.

His words were echoed at 10 Downing Street, which said Britain and America were united in “seeking a sustainable peace . . . in which the paramilitaries’ tails did not wag the democratic dog”.

Only a few weeks ago, Beirut was the Middle East’s Miami — a hedonistic melting pot of business and beaches attracting visitors from all over the world to a city that had been for years a byword for urban destruction during the Lebanese civil war. New construction included an $80m hotel project by Philippe Starck, the avant-garde French designer, a luxury marina development, new shopping malls and spas.

“Beirut is a hive of activity,” a travel article in Wallpaper* magazine declared last month. “Maybe Lebanon is finally welcoming a time of peace and prosperity.”

Behind the glitz, however, the power of Hezbollah had been steadily growing throughout southern Lebanon. The group has had six years since Israeli forces withdrew in 2000 to consolidate its position and amass a dangerous arsenal.

Intelligence sources claim that a consignment of thousands of Katyusha rockets and other missiles was sent from Iran to Damascus airport in Syria last March. From there they were transported through Lebanon’s Bekaa Valley to Hezbollah bases near the Israeli border.

Other sophisticated weapons in the hands of Hezbollah include an anti-ship cruise missile known as the C-802 — an Iranian-made variant of the Chinese Silkworm. One was used in an attack against an Israeli naval vessel on July 14.

Israeli forensic experts say they have also established that a 220mm rocket used in an attack on Haifa last Sunday was made in Syria. The warhead was said to have been filled with ball-bearings — a commonplace terrorist tactic but unheard of in missile warfare.

It was largely because the Israeli military sensed that the threat from both Hezbollah and Iran was growing — not least because of Tehran’s continuation of a nuclear programme that could be used to make bombs — that Tel Aviv reacted so forcefully after eight of its soldiers were killed and two seized on the border 11 days ago.

Israel decided that a show of force was necessary to curb future aggression. Within hours a devastating air bombardment turned any hopes of Beirut’s tourist renaissance to dust.

By last week the Haret Hreik district, home to the headquarters of Hezbollah and its leader, Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, was reduced to rubble. In a week of Israeli bombing, scores of apartment buildings have collapsed. Streets are littered with personal belongings and broken furniture.

Yet the Israeli media reported that, despite dropping 23 tons of munitions on Hezbollah’s headquarters, the warplanes had failed to penetrate the underground bunker walls of the command post.

In the south the devastation was even worse. Kamel Abdullah, 50, took advantage of a lull in bombardments in the ancient city of Tyre to buy bread for his family. When he returned his home had been destroyed by a direct Israeli hit. His wife and five children were all dead.

As Israeli planes roared over Tyre, another noise could also be heard: the whoosh of Katyusha rockets. From sites dug into the hills south of the city, the rockets headed for Israel.

Hezbollah was using “shoot and scoot” tactics, firing missiles pre-hidden in caves and wadis, and moving on before Israeli planes could retaliate.

The human cost of the struggle was horrific and the overwhelming majority of the victims were civilians.

Zahra al-Samra, 18, lost her mother, a sister and a niece when Israeli bombs hit their apartment in Tyre, which was in a building that housed the local civil defence force. Another sister was severely burnt and might not survive.

Once a pretty brunette, Zahra was burnt over her face and body by the blast of the explosion. Last week she sat, catatonic, in a small hospital being cradled by her brother.

Writhing in pain, she cried out: “I don’t want to live, I want to die. God, you can’t make me live.”

Acroo the border in Israel, sudden death also fell from clear skies. In Nahariya, a town of about 30,000 a few miles inside Israel, Rada Zalinski, an immigrant from Ukraine, went out onto the balcony of her home to call to her husband Andrei. He was preparing a shelter where his family could take refuge.

“Andrei was in the shelter and Rada called him to come out,” said a neighbour. “As Andrei emerged, and while Rada was watching him approaching their flat, a Katyusha rocket fell. It virtually hit him direct.”

A paramedic said: “Nothing much remained of the body and in the first moments I couldn’t tell if it was a man or a woman.”

Neighbours took Rada and her four-year-old daughter Galit to hospital. “She was crying the whole time and little Galit, who didn’t understand what had happened, was crying with her,” said the neighbour. Rada asked that her husband be buried in Ukraine; but she said that she would remain in Israel.

Caught in the middle of the conflagration were thousands of British nationals. Emily Warren, a 12-year-old from London, was staying with a friend from the French Lycée in Kensington whose relatives had a home in the hills above Beirut.

“People were dying and bombs were exploding,” she said. “I couldn’t understand it. This was supposed to be a summer holiday with my best friend.”

After days of waiting, gloomily watching the war on satellite television, the British embassy in Beirut telephoned to say that evacuations were being arranged.

It was the start of a chaotic departure from Lebanon for tens of thousands of foreign nationals. To help with the American evacuations, US Marines landed in Beirut for the first time since a suicide attack on a US barracks there killed 241 service personnel in 1984.

For many of those fleeing it was an abrupt departure only days after they had arrived for a taste of the shiny new Beirut. Emily sat silently with her friend and her friend’s mother as a taxi took them towards the city.

“In the mountains, it had been hard to tell that something was wrong, but as we entered Beirut we could see buildings in ruins,” she said.

Emily took out her camera but was swiftly told to put it away. “You’re frightening the driver,” said her friend’s mother. “The flash reminds him of the bombs.”

The taxi drove past shops that the girls had visited a week ago. “Now they were just rubble,” Emily said. “This made me really angry. The bombs had destroyed the most beautiful buildings. They had only just been rebuilt.”

At a meeting point near a mosque, a Royal Navy helicopter waited. Within hours Emily was in Cyprus; but for others escape was not so smooth.

Nathalie Moukarzel, 21, who has an English mother and Lebanese father, was born and brought up in Britain. She had arrived in Beirut to visit relatives only hours before hostilities erupted.

As soon as she realised how serious the bombing raids were she sought help from the embassy. “I tried to call the embassy for a whole day and they did not answer,” said Moukarzel. “The next day I called for four hours before someone picked up.”

Over the ensuing days she battled, she said, with staff who seemed unable to offer any help. “I cannot tell you how ashamed I am to call myself a British citizen — I have lost faith and feel helpless,” she said, though she is now safely out of the country after being evacuated aboard HMS Bulwark.

Others who were offered assistance were also dismayed at the handling of the evacuation. Ilham al-Shami, her sister Rena and 14 other family members — all with dual Lebanese-British citizenship — found that a British embassy official told them they could not take their two Filipino nannies on board Bulwark.

Surrounded by Louis Vuitton suitcases, al-Shami and her relatives complained forcefully at having to abandon their nannies. All they wanted, they said, was to get to their villa in Cyprus. One undiplomatic official told them to “f*** off”.

In rather more parlous position late last week were 10 British nationals said by the embassy on Friday to be trapped in their homes by the fighting in south Lebanon. It was too dangerous for them to move, but a final evacuation of other stragglers was being planned yesterday.

AS the rockets and bombs continued to fall, Condoleezza Rice sat down to a private dinner in New York on Thursday with Kofi Annan, the United Nations secretary-general. The gilded splendour of the Waldorf Astoria hotel could scarcely have been further removed from the wrecked Beirut landscapes flickering across the television screens in the hotel bar.

It is hard to imagine what the pair might have agreed upon, unless they were talking about the choking heatwave that smothered Manhattan last week.

Earlier that day, Annan had called for an immediate cessation of hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah — a move that drew a sharp rebuke from John Bolton, the hawkish US ambassador to the UN.

“No one’s explained how you conduct a ceasefire with a group of terrorists,” said Bolton. “It is not appropriate to talk about a ceasefire as if that is the alpha and omega of the situation.”

Rice’s dinner with Annan appeared intended to dispel the impression that America is becoming increasingly isolated over its Middle East policies — or what some regard as a lack of them.

There were hints in London that Blair, who will visit the White House on Friday, was becoming alarmed at America’s non-interventionist strategy and at the growing cockiness of enemies of the West as Hezbollah won the propaganda war to depict Israel as the aggressor.

The prime minister had spelt out his position on Wednesday, when he said that the hostilities would “stop now if the [israeli] soldiers who were kidnapped wrongly . . . were released”.

He added: “It would stop if the rockets stopped coming into Haifa, deliberately to kill innocent civilians. If those two things happen, let me promise . . . I will be the first out there saying Israel should halt this operation.”

The cabinet, meeting on Thursday, backed his stance. After Margaret Beckett, the foreign secretary, gave a presentation, there was only one dissenting voice. Lord Grocott, chief whip in the House of Lords and a former ultra-loyalist parliamentary private secretary to Blair, argued that Israel’s actions could be seen as “disproportionate”.

The problem for Blair — not to mention Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister — is that anything short of a convincing Israeli military victory or a complete capitulation by Hezbollah seems unlikely to achieve what Rice described as the “sustainable conditions for political progress” that would make an American diplomatic initiative worthwhile.

For the border war has to be seen in the context of greater intractable problems. Even if the threat of an Israeli invasion forces Hezbollah to sue for peace, Washington appears no nearer to resolving either of the most pressing issues threatening the Middle East’s future: Iran’s nuclear capabilities and Syria’s mischief-making in Iraq.

“No reckoning with Hezbollah will be adequate without a reckoning with its principal state sponsors of terror,” Bolton acknowledged last week.

Hezbollah’s attack on Israel — unlikely to have been carried out without some kind of discussion with Tehran — is ample evidence of the growing confidence in both Iran and Syria that America has been hobbled by the war in Iraq and is rapidly losing its grasp on the region.

When Rice announced earlier this year that America would finally engage Iran in talks about its nuclear programme, the response from Tehran was mocking. “Why don’t you admit that you are weak and your razor is blunt?” asked Ayatollah Khamenei, the country’s supreme religious leader.

Shortly after that a boat operated by Iranian Revolutionary Guards sailed past a US navy vessel in the Gulf with a banner that read: “US cannot do a damn thing.”

Not that Iran is claiming direct credit for Hezbollah’s actions. On Friday, Akbar Rafsanjani, another leading cleric, claimed the conflict was “a plan prepared by the US, Israel and perhaps Britain since several weeks ago”.

That carries little weight in America, where analysts largely concur that Tehran has been manipulating Hezbollah’s attacks as a useful ploy for diverting attention from its nuclear activities. American analysts disagree, however, over the likely lasting effects of this crisis.

Some believe that Israel’s fierce military response, while it will hurt Hezbollah in the short term, will only stir up more hatred. Muqtedar Khan, a political analyst at the Brookings Institution in Washington, said: “Muslims across the world are watching a nuclear power — supported, armed and funded by the US — bombard and kill dozens of civilians, destroy the economy and infrastructure of Palestine and Lebanon . . . and all the US does is provide cover for Israel on the world stage.

“Al-Qaeda must be running out of enrolment forms . . . the escalation in the region strengthens anti-Americanism worldwide and fuels radicalism in the Arab and Muslim world.”

The optimists argue that if Israel succeeds in delivering a swift and decisive blow to Hezbollah’s paramilitary base, then Lebanon’s recently installed democratic government, led by Fouad Siniora, might survive; Palestinian militants might become chastened; and America will profit from the gratitude of a number of moderate Arab states who have their own worries about the spread of Shi’ite aggression.

According to this analysis, Nasrallah, the Hezbollah leader, might turn out to have made a fatal mistake if Israel is given enough time to inflict serious military punishment during any ground offensive.

It is already clear, however, that the longer the fighting goes on and the civilian casualties increase, the greater the pressure will be for Washington to rein in Israel — which would leave Rice’s “sustainable conditions for political progress” still out of reach.

“If Hezbollah is significantly weakened or destroyed, that’s good for US policy,” said Steven Cook, a regional specialist at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York. “But any deal that leaves Hezbollah in place is not a good deal for the US.”

Packing up his bags in Beirut on Wednesday evening, Brian Prescott-Decie, a British university professor, chose to be optimistic. He had decided to join the British evacuation, he said, only because he had two small children — Edward, 3, and Celia, 5.

“We are looking at this as an extended vacation,” he said as he boarded HMS Bulwark for Cyprus. “Our house is here, our lives are here, our children go to school here. We will find our way back.”

Yet a few dozen miles further south, Israeli soldiers were massing for what military commanders described as a bid to carve out a Hezbollah-free buffer zone above Israel’s northern border. It may precipitate protracted and bloody fighting.

When Nasrallah gave a television interview on Thursday night he did not look remotely perturbed at the thought of further fighting.

“Hezbollah has so far stood fast, absorbed the strike, retaken the initiative and there are more surprises ahead,” he told the Al-Jazeera network.

Prescott-Decie and his children might be away longer than they think.

"][title]www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2281903_1,00.html

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Kulapavana · July 24, 2006

In 1966 there was a quite similiar situation:

Nava-yauvana: Also they say that religions are the causes of war. In Lebanon now the Christians are killing the Muslims and the Muslims are killing the Christians in the name of...

Prabhupada: And the Communists are killing capitalists and capitalists are killing Communists. What is that? Is that religion? Then? How you can stop war? Because you are animal, you fight, you can give some name, either on religious ground or this philosophical ground. But because you are animal you will fight. You can give a different name. That is different thing. But because you are dogs, you'll fight.

Precisely! just dogs fighting other dogs...

Bhakta Don Muntean · July 24, 2006

Precisely! just dogs fighting other dogs...

So you're saying Prabhupada would encourage the world to just let these Jihadis run amuck? :crazy:

The Wrath of Israel or Who wants war in the Middle East?

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