Miscellany: Counting Letters, Samputa Analogy etc

[Guest guest]

Dear Ajit,

 

> Can you please explain how to count the sounds of RV 3.62.10 to arrive at

> 24? I have always gotten a different result. (for example, using the

> publication of the Kapali institute)

 

Good question!

 

The chhandas employed in Vedic hymns uses some rules that are not used in later day literature.

 

Students of Veda used to also study Vedangas, such as Siksha, Vyakaranam and Chhandas. Chhandas (prosody) is not a simple subject that can be mastered in a day.

 

Please read Pingala's chhandas. Normally, scholars use sutra 2 of third adhyaya of Pingala's chhandas to explain how there are exactly 24 letters in the basic Savitri Gayatri mantra ("tatsavitur...prachodayaat").

 

I am neither an expert nor have a firm view on this. I am merely sharing the little information I have, because you seem interested. You may want to explore Pingala's sutras on chhandas.

 

* * *

 

Dear Sanjay,

 

> tat savitur vareNyam ...1st pada

> vargo devasya dhimahi...2nd pada

> dhiyo yo nah prachodayat...3rd pada

 

The first word in the second pada is not "vargo". It is given as "bhargo" in all printed versions I have seen.

 

This is the first time I am seeing "vargo". I am guessing that it is a corruption. The word "bharga" means radiant energy or effulgence. It is vital in the meaning of the mantra. I cannot see "varga" fitting here.

 

Do you chant the mantra in your japam as you wrote above? Is this how your guru taught you?

 

* * *

 

Dear Ajit,

 

> > This is regarding the Gayatri to which I have a very clearcut answer and

> know at least 25 samputa or maybe more

>

> You do not have to reply to this publically if you wish. However, when you

> are so firm about the 24 sounds of the mantra, why did you bother to find

> out about 25+ samputas which will naturally change the chandas of the

> mantra? Or have I misunderstood something?

 

Regarding the assertion above ("naturally change the chandas of the mantra"), I beg to differ.

 

Let me make my argument using an analogy, starting with the word used by Sanjay - "samputa". What does that word mean? It means a bowl or a container!!!!

 

If I prefix the mantra with Om and suffix the mantra with Om, Sanjay is rightly calling it "samputa" (and he says he knows 25+ samputas). They basically form the "container" for the mantra.

 

Now, if I put rice in a bowl, does the bowl become part of rice? No, it is still a bowl that happens to contain rice. Similarly, if I put pasta in a bowl, does the bowl become part of pasta? No, it is still a bowl that happens to contain pasta.

 

Similarly, the samputa (container) used does not become part of the mantra. Mantra remains mantra (like rice and pasta in the above analogy) and samputa just acts as a container that provides space for the mantra.

 

Now, one important point needs to be made, in order to complete this analogy:

 

If a bowl is dirty, the dirt can get into rice and change its taste. If a bowl contaminated with sugar syrup is used to contain rice, rice becomes sweet due to the sugar syrup. Similarly, some samputas can change the "nature" (not chhandas) of the mantra. Thus, one has to be careful with certain samputas.

 

However, Om is pure aakaasa (space). Thus, doing samputa of Gayatri mantra with Om...Om creates empty space (aakaasa) for the mantra to occupy and does not change the nature in any way.

 

Thus, I maintain that the samputa suggested by Swami Vivekananda (Om...mantra...Om) neither changes the chhandas (metre) nor changes the nature of the mantra.

 

However, some of the 25+ samputas that Sanjay said he knows may be different in behavior. While those samputas remain samputas (containers) and do not become part of the mantra, they can affect the nature and effect of the mantra. If one wants good health or wants to overcome addictions by controlling the mind or wants knowledge or something like that, one may choose an appropriate samputa as taught by a guru. But, if the goal is Brahma jnaana, I humbly suggest that the basic samputa suggested by Swami Vivekananda is appropriate.

 

* * *

Dear Sanjay,

 

> You have not expressed your views about the panchakshari mantra. Does your

> tradition still believe that it is the same as shadakshari mantra? So then

> your tradition does not recognise the Rudra Yamala or alternatively does not

> accept the teaching of Shankara.

 

I humbly take back my point on Panchakshari and Shadakshari. Whatever I said in that regard was my own view and not my guru's.

 

I made a wrong point that can (did) divert the discussion. Please read what I wrote to Ajit above.

 

* * *

 

Dear Pandit Arjun ji,

 

> it is clearly written in shivapuran that doing japam of any mantra

> with a rudraksha mala is the best. hence rudraksha mala is not

> prohibited for chanting any mantra, rather it is put above par with

> all other malas like pearls, corals, crystals etc.

 

Thank you for the reference! Contrary to this (and contrary to my own guru's teachings), Sanjay ji vehemently maintains that Rudraksha must not be used with Gayatri mantra. Let us wait for him to give his reference!

 

* * *

 

Dear Neeraj,

 

> I greatly appreciate your feedback. I do need it and I

> will devote some time on the Narayana Sooktam with

> voice as well as text and will try to improve on the

> intonation and pronounciation part.

>

> I hope, I can do it correctly with some practice and

> with your blessings.

>

> I already have the image and the humming of the

> gayatri mantra that you gave us. I will practicse on

> that.

 

Who am I to bless you?

 

I met several people who were given Gayatri long back, but do not practice it now. Having seen the power of Gayatri, I convinced them to restart and guided them in pronunciation. After doing it physically with a few people, I wanted to do it virtually, to reach a larger group.

 

I am only sharing what I know and practice, not because I know a great lot, but because even the little I know may be useful to some.

 

I have absolutely no pretensions of being a guru or a learned man or one who can bless people.

 

Yes, I have seen people perfect the swara of this mantra with practice. Do practice.

 

When I taught people physically, I hummed it while moving my finger on the text (like in karaoke). Unfortunately, the resources I have uploaded lack in that dimension and it is less easy to follow the humming and text together. That is why I think listening to the Sri Sooktam audio I mentioned yesterday and understanding the meanings of accent symbols practically is a good approach.

 

Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

Narasimha

-------------------------------

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Dear Narasimha

 

1. Thats a typo...everyone knows is bhargo devasya dhimahi.

2. Brilliant analogy about the Rice and the Bowl. You can be very

innovative in your analogies.

 

3. I really appreciate the fact that you have accepted the error you

made about panchakshari and shadakshari. Narasimha, I have no

intention to ever show that this path is right or that is right. After

all who are we in this huge universe. All I tried to do was to prevent

others from having *notions* about right and wrong.

 

To Mr Arjuna: Narasimha please also see

4. The reference in the Siva Purana is extolling the greatness of the

rudraksha after describing the mantras for the different types of

Rudraksha. For example the 12 mukhi rudraksha is for Surya and 10

mukhi is for Vishnu. If you are using this specific face rudraksha and

also doing the mantras of Surya or Vishnu or any other devata based on

the number of mukhi, it is fine.

 

When we use the word Rudraksha in general, it refers to the

panchamukhi rudraksha. The pancamukhi is for the panchamukha devata

and to my knowledge this is ONLY LORD SHIVA (Brahma had 5 heads, but

lost one due to indiscretion, so He is chaturmukhi). This rudraksha is

the best for panchakshari or shadakshari mantra sadhana, especially if

the mantra initiation has been done on a panchami.

 

Hope this clarfies.

 

5. To other who think this debate is one upmanship (I have not read

the mails, but was told that there is some thing like this).

 

How can we ever dream of improvement if we do not question? Are we

Indians destined to languish in the darkness of the middle ages? Can

we not come out of that by questioning and learning. Just see how much

knowledge has been exchanged due to this process of questioning. OK

agreed that Narasimha and I can get at each others throats

occasionally, but then deep inside we know that it is ultimately for

the knowledge that we came together in the first place.

 

Sanjay

> Dear Sanjay,

>

> > tat savitur vareNyam ...1st pada

> > vargo devasya dhimahi...2nd pada

> > dhiyo yo nah prachodayat...3rd pada

>

> The first word in the second pada is not "vargo". It is given as

"bhargo" in all printed versions I have seen.

>

> This is the first time I am seeing "vargo". I am guessing that it is

a corruption. The word "bharga" means radiant energy or effulgence. It

is vital in the meaning of the mantra. I cannot see "varga" fitting here.

>

> Do you chant the mantra in your japam as you wrote above? Is this

how your guru taught you?

>

> * * *

>

> Dear Ajit,

>

> > > This is regarding the Gayatri to which I have a very clearcut

answer and

> > know at least 25 samputa or maybe more

> >

> > You do not have to reply to this publically if you wish. However,

when you

> > are so firm about the 24 sounds of the mantra, why did you bother

to find

> > out about 25+ samputas which will naturally change the chandas of the

> > mantra? Or have I misunderstood something?

>

> Regarding the assertion above ("naturally change the chandas of the

mantra"), I beg to differ.

>

> Let me make my argument using an analogy, starting with the word

used by Sanjay - "samputa". What does that word mean? It means a bowl

or a container!!!!

>

> If I prefix the mantra with Om and suffix the mantra with Om, Sanjay

is rightly calling it "samputa" (and he says he knows 25+ samputas).

They basically form the "container" for the mantra.

>

> Now, if I put rice in a bowl, does the bowl become part of rice? No,

it is still a bowl that happens to contain rice. Similarly, if I put

pasta in a bowl, does the bowl become part of pasta? No, it is still a

bowl that happens to contain pasta.

>

> Similarly, the samputa (container) used does not become part of the

mantra. Mantra remains mantra (like rice and pasta in the above

analogy) and samputa just acts as a container that provides space for

the mantra.

>

> Now, one important point needs to be made, in order to complete this

analogy:

>

> If a bowl is dirty, the dirt can get into rice and change its taste.

If a bowl contaminated with sugar syrup is used to contain rice, rice

becomes sweet due to the sugar syrup. Similarly, some samputas can

change the "nature" (not chhandas) of the mantra. Thus, one has to be

careful with certain samputas.

>

> However, Om is pure aakaasa (space). Thus, doing samputa of Gayatri

mantra with Om...Om creates empty space (aakaasa) for the mantra to

occupy and does not change the nature in any way.

>

> Thus, I maintain that the samputa suggested by Swami Vivekananda

(Om...mantra...Om) neither changes the chhandas (metre) nor changes

the nature of the mantra.

>

> However, some of the 25+ samputas that Sanjay said he knows may be

different in behavior. While those samputas remain samputas

(containers) and do not become part of the mantra, they can affect the

nature and effect of the mantra. If one wants good health or wants to

overcome addictions by controlling the mind or wants knowledge or

something like that, one may choose an appropriate samputa as taught

by a guru. But, if the goal is Brahma jnaana, I humbly suggest that

the basic samputa suggested by Swami Vivekananda is appropriate.

>

> * * *

>

> Dear Sanjay,

>

> > You have not expressed your views about the panchakshari mantra.

Does your

> > tradition still believe that it is the same as shadakshari mantra?

So then

> > your tradition does not recognise the Rudra Yamala or

alternatively does not

> > accept the teaching of Shankara.

>

> I humbly take back my point on Panchakshari and Shadakshari.

Whatever I said in that regard was my own view and not my guru's.

>

> I made a wrong point that can (did) divert the discussion. Please

read what I wrote to Ajit above.

>

> * * *

>

> Dear Pandit Arjun ji,

>

> > it is clearly written in shivapuran that doing japam of any mantra

> > with a rudraksha mala is the best. hence rudraksha mala is not

> > prohibited for chanting any mantra, rather it is put above par with

> > all other malas like pearls, corals, crystals etc.

>

> Thank you for the reference! Contrary to this (and contrary to my

own guru's teachings), Sanjay ji vehemently maintains that Rudraksha

must not be used with Gayatri mantra. Let us wait for him to give his

reference!

>

> * * *

>

> Dear Neeraj,

>

> > I greatly appreciate your feedback. I do need it and I

> > will devote some time on the Narayana Sooktam with

> > voice as well as text and will try to improve on the

> > intonation and pronounciation part.

> >

> > I hope, I can do it correctly with some practice and

> > with your blessings.

> >

> > I already have the image and the humming of the

> > gayatri mantra that you gave us. I will practicse on

> > that.

>

> Who am I to bless you?

>

> I met several people who were given Gayatri long back, but do not

practice it now. Having seen the power of Gayatri, I convinced them to

restart and guided them in pronunciation. After doing it physically

with a few people, I wanted to do it virtually, to reach a larger group.

>

> I am only sharing what I know and practice, not because I know a

great lot, but because even the little I know may be useful to some.

>

> I have absolutely no pretensions of being a guru or a learned man or

one who can bless people.

>

> Yes, I have seen people perfect the swara of this mantra with

practice. Do practice.

>

> When I taught people physically, I hummed it while moving my finger

on the text (like in karaoke). Unfortunately, the resources I have

uploaded lack in that dimension and it is less easy to follow the

humming and text together. That is why I think listening to the Sri

Sooktam audio I mentioned yesterday and understanding the meanings of

accent symbols practically is a good approach.

>

> Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------------

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanjay,

 

> To Mr Arjuna: Narasimha please also see

> 4. The reference in the Siva Purana is extolling the greatness of the

> rudraksha after describing the mantras for the different types of

> Rudraksha. For example the 12 mukhi rudraksha is for Surya and 10

> mukhi is for Vishnu. If you are using this specific face rudraksha and

> also doing the mantras of Surya or Vishnu or any other devata based on

> the number of mukhi, it is fine.

 

Earlier, you said Rudraksha is prohibited for Gayatri. Now, you seem to be saying that 12 faced Rudraksha is fine. Thank you for this clarification of your view.

 

Now, do you have any scriptural basis for saying that Panchamukhi Rudraksha is prohibited for Gayatri?

 

Sarvam SreeKrishnaarpanamastu,

Narasimha

-------------------------------

Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

-------------------------------

 

> Dear Narasimha

>

> 1. Thats a typo...everyone knows is bhargo devasya dhimahi.

> 2. Brilliant analogy about the Rice and the Bowl. You can be very

> innovative in your analogies.

>

> 3. I really appreciate the fact that you have accepted the error you

> made about panchakshari and shadakshari. Narasimha, I have no

> intention to ever show that this path is right or that is right. After

> all who are we in this huge universe. All I tried to do was to prevent

> others from having *notions* about right and wrong.

>

> To Mr Arjuna: Narasimha please also see

> 4. The reference in the Siva Purana is extolling the greatness of the

> rudraksha after describing the mantras for the different types of

> Rudraksha. For example the 12 mukhi rudraksha is for Surya and 10

> mukhi is for Vishnu. If you are using this specific face rudraksha and

> also doing the mantras of Surya or Vishnu or any other devata based on

> the number of mukhi, it is fine.

>

> When we use the word Rudraksha in general, it refers to the

> panchamukhi rudraksha. The pancamukhi is for the panchamukha devata

> and to my knowledge this is ONLY LORD SHIVA (Brahma had 5 heads, but

> lost one due to indiscretion, so He is chaturmukhi). This rudraksha is

> the best for panchakshari or shadakshari mantra sadhana, especially if

> the mantra initiation has been done on a panchami.

>

> Hope this clarfies.

>

> 5. To other who think this debate is one upmanship (I have not read

> the mails, but was told that there is some thing like this).

>

> How can we ever dream of improvement if we do not question? Are we

> Indians destined to languish in the darkness of the middle ages? Can

> we not come out of that by questioning and learning. Just see how much

> knowledge has been exchanged due to this process of questioning. OK

> agreed that Narasimha and I can get at each others throats

> occasionally, but then deep inside we know that it is ultimately for

> the knowledge that we came together in the first place.

>

> Sanjay

[Guest guest]

dear sanjay ji

 

according to shiva puran, lord shiva mentions various types of malas

to be used for mantra japam and the the list ends with the rudraksha

which gives countelss number of times higher results if any mantra

is chanted with a rudraksha japamala. generally since 5mukh mala is

available in abundance is easily affordable even by a poor man, it

is most oft used by all for various mantra japams. no where it is

written that rudraksha mala shall not be used for doing a particular

mantra japam. even in other texts speciic malas might have been

recommended for specific gods and worships but no where in any

classic prohibition on rudraksha mala is imposed, especially for

chanting gayatri.

 

attribution of lords in relation to the number of mukh is a

different thing e.g. 4mukh for brahma, 6mukh for skanda, 10mukh for

vishnu and 12mukh for surya.

 

since gayatri is meant for surya, using a 12mukh rudraksha japamala

would give higher results but 5mukh japamala is not prohibited for

gayatri japam.

 

in our throwing more light on rudraksha, japamala and other things,

the intention of spreading light on the usefulness of gayatri is

getting lost and hence i wish to touch this aspect which is the

objective of narasimha when he wrote his mail on this subject first.

 

it is written in shiva puran that a brahmin who does not do sandhya

vandanam daily and do not offer arghyam to surya daily can do a

pryaschit by way of chanting extra gayatri mantra japam. however,

if he does not do these things (sandhya vandanam and arghyam) for

more than a month, upanayana samskaram has to be performed again.

since getting upanayanam again is insulting and not practical for

all erring brahmins who do not do sandhya vandanam and arghyam, it

is best if they do extra gayatri mantra japam. if they do the

mantra japam with a 12mukh rudraksha mala, they would get even

higher results.

 

in view of the above, instead of focusing too much on micro level

nitty gritty, let us spread the benefits of gayatri and request one

and all to do gayatri mantra japam daily and get the grace of the

sun who is none other than lord shiva.

 

with best wishes

pandit arjun

 

 

> To Mr Arjuna: Narasimha please also see

> 4. The reference in the Siva Purana is extolling the greatness of

the

> rudraksha after describing the mantras for the different types of

> Rudraksha. For example the 12 mukhi rudraksha is for Surya and 10

> mukhi is for Vishnu. If you are using this specific face rudraksha

and

> also doing the mantras of Surya or Vishnu or any other devata

based on

> the number of mukhi, it is fine.

>

> When we use the word Rudraksha in general, it refers to the

> panchamukhi rudraksha. The pancamukhi is for the panchamukha devata

> and to my knowledge this is ONLY LORD SHIVA (Brahma had 5 heads,

but

> lost one due to indiscretion, so He is chaturmukhi). This

rudraksha is

> the best for panchakshari or shadakshari mantra sadhana,

especially if

> the mantra initiation has been done on a panchami.

>

> Hope this clarfies.

[Guest guest]

dear prabodh ji

 

you are discussing two issues.

 

one is that narasimha is blindly following his guru's advice of not

speaking out gayatri mantra loudly which you are finding illogical.

here i support and appreciate narasimha for the faith and upkeeping

on the word of his guru. under the traditional susrusha, a shisya

blindly follows the orders of his guru without questioning it. if a

person does not want to listen to his guru and listen to his own

self then the old saying comes "yukti yuktam vako grahyam baladapi

sukadapi (parrot) yukti heenam vakas tyajyam vruddhadapi sukadapi

(sage suka)".

 

other is that narasima has hummed the mantra and thus violated the

word given to his guru. here too i appreciate narasimha for his

REPEATED CLARIFICATION IN ALL MAILS that his intent is to spread the

usefulness of gayatri and help those people who forgot to worship

the living god sun by chanting gayatri.

 

but i personally differ to his stance that what was said in rigveda

and what was pronounced by one person is correct. all mantra and

all suktams are chanted in varying accents (intonations) in the

north, in the east, in the south and in the west. no one shall

criticise the others pronounciation as wrong. if a south indian

listens to the suktams chanted in kashi, he would not understand but

he must not criticise them. kashi which has been the only sanskrit

learning centre has produced thousands of sanskrit scholars and most

of them do not pronounce the gayatri in the south indian way as

narrated by narasimha even if it is the most correct one. too much

emphasis in saying that only one intonation is correct and others

are wrong will defeat the very purpose of mantras. after all

shraddha is primary and intonation is secondary. if lord ram is

pronounced as ram in the north, as raman, ramam, rama and ramu in

the four southern states in four different ways, there is no harm.

even lord subrahmanya is prnounced in four different ways like

subrahmanya, subrahmanyam, subramaniam, subramanian. are the four

southern states finding fault with each other in these distortions.

NO.

 

let us all chant gayatri with or without mala (no fighting on what

mala to be used) and with right or wrong pronounciation.

 

two organisations have done great service to the humanity in

spreading the usefullness of gayatri. first is arya samaj and

second is the gayatri parivar whose website (link given below) is a

must visit for all gayatri chanters.

 

http://www.awgp.org/gamma/

 

with best wishes

pandit arjun

 

vedic astrology, "Prabodh Vekhande"

<amolmandar wrote:

>

> Dear Panditarjun Namaste

>

> > in our throwing more light on rudraksha, japamala and other

things,

> > the intention of spreading light on the usefulness of gayatri is

> > getting lost and hence i wish to touch this aspect which is the

> > objective of narasimha when he wrote his mail on this subject

first.

> >

>

> I think nobody objects to the objective of Narsimha. All problem

> started with his humming of Gayatri. Narsimha is humming because

he

> has a strong belief that saying Gayatri louldly will take away

some

> power(which he needs from Gayatri). Similarly some have strong

belief

> that humming any mantra insults that manta and hence should be

> avoided. After all there may be a reason to your belief and there

> may not be! But when belief comes in the discussions logic ends

and

> hence the discussions.

>

> As a matter of fact Narsimha should explain why is he not ready to

> say it loudly once? (or Why his spiritual Guru does not allow him

to

> say Gayatri louldly even once? we should ask this question to his

> spiritiual Guru!) Narsimha may,according to his belief,lose some

> power of mantra but that would be a great sacrifice for the

> betterment of the mankind. Moreover getting power and losing power

> by/of mantra is not a tangible thing and hence he may not realize

it

> as well(with the blessings/support from his spiritual Guru he may

not

> loose the power as well! Who knows?).

>

> Is it not surprising that his belief allows to 'Hum' but does not

> allow to say properly! As if while humming he has not lost the

power

> of Mantra! It does not sound very correct and hence all questions

> raised and doubts asked.

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.

>

> Prabodh Vekhande

> Jai Jai Shankar

> Har Har Shankar

>

> vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004"

> <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> >

> > dear sanjay ji

> >

> > according to shiva puran, lord shiva mentions various types of

> malas

> > to be used for mantra japam and the the list ends with the

> rudraksha

> > which gives countelss number of times higher results if any

mantra

> > is chanted with a rudraksha japamala. generally since 5mukh

mala

> is

> > available in abundance is easily affordable even by a poor man,

it

> > is most oft used by all for various mantra japams. no where it

is

> > written that rudraksha mala shall not be used for doing a

> particular

> > mantra japam. even in other texts speciic malas might have been

> > recommended for specific gods and worships but no where in any

> > classic prohibition on rudraksha mala is imposed, especially for

> > chanting gayatri.

> >

> > attribution of lords in relation to the number of mukh is a

> > different thing e.g. 4mukh for brahma, 6mukh for skanda, 10mukh

for

> > vishnu and 12mukh for surya.

> >

> > since gayatri is meant for surya, using a 12mukh rudraksha

japamala

> > would give higher results but 5mukh japamala is not prohibited

for

> > gayatri japam.

> >

> > in our throwing more light on rudraksha, japamala and other

things,

> > the intention of spreading light on the usefulness of gayatri is

> > getting lost and hence i wish to touch this aspect which is the

> > objective of narasimha when he wrote his mail on this subject

first.

> >

> > it is written in shiva puran that a brahmin who does not do

sandhya

> > vandanam daily and do not offer arghyam to surya daily can do a

> > pryaschit by way of chanting extra gayatri mantra japam.

however,

> > if he does not do these things (sandhya vandanam and arghyam)

for

> > more than a month, upanayana samskaram has to be performed

again.

> > since getting upanayanam again is insulting and not practical

for

> > all erring brahmins who do not do sandhya vandanam and arghyam,

it

> > is best if they do extra gayatri mantra japam. if they do the

> > mantra japam with a 12mukh rudraksha mala, they would get even

> > higher results.

> >

> > in view of the above, instead of focusing too much on micro

level

> > nitty gritty, let us spread the benefits of gayatri and request

one

> > and all to do gayatri mantra japam daily and get the grace of

the

> > sun who is none other than lord shiva.

> >

> > with best wishes

> > pandit arjun

> >

> >

> > > To Mr Arjuna: Narasimha please also see

> > > 4. The reference in the Siva Purana is extolling the greatness

of

> > the

> > > rudraksha after describing the mantras for the different types

of

> > > Rudraksha. For example the 12 mukhi rudraksha is for Surya and

10

> > > mukhi is for Vishnu. If you are using this specific face

> rudraksha

> > and

> > > also doing the mantras of Surya or Vishnu or any other devata

> > based on

> > > the number of mukhi, it is fine.

> > >

> > > When we use the word Rudraksha in general, it refers to the

> > > panchamukhi rudraksha. The pancamukhi is for the panchamukha

> devata

> > > and to my knowledge this is ONLY LORD SHIVA (Brahma had 5

heads,

> > but

> > > lost one due to indiscretion, so He is chaturmukhi). This

> > rudraksha is

> > > the best for panchakshari or shadakshari mantra sadhana,

> > especially if

> > > the mantra initiation has been done on a panchami.

> > >

> > > Hope this clarfies.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shree Panditarjunji Namste

 

> one is that narasimha is blindly following his guru's advice of not

> speaking out gayatri mantra loudly which you are finding illogical.

 

Since it is his belief and has no reason so it leads to being

illlogical or rather without logic.

 

> here i support and appreciate narasimha for the faith and upkeeping

> on the word of his guru.

 

It is good that you support him but that is besides the point. See

the current status. He wants to spread usefulness of Gayatri. He

feels that by reciting Gayatri with Swaranusthan Gayatri is most

useful. He can not chant Gaytri with all Swaras as it is not allowed

in his tradition. How will then spread usefullness of Gayatri? Either

his tradition should allow lould chanting with Swara or He should

play with the tradition (ofcourse with the permission of the Guru!)

So he hums tune(not exactly Gayatri according to him) of Gaytri. See

the paradox. If you want to spread usefulness of Gayatri then why

not to spread it with as it is? Will it not be more useful?

 

Dear Narsimha Namste

 

I said your belief may have or may not have the reason. I thought

that at least you would have some reason with your belief. Hereis my

reason aobout the belief that humming Gayatri or its tune is a insult

of Gayatri.

 

Gayatri and Jyotish

 

The mantra that changed VisvaRath to VishvaMitra can not be made

public with its all Swaras! How is it possible? It is believed that

you become like mitra to all world once you attain siddhi with

Gayatri. Mitra is the deity associated with Anuradha Nakshatra that

happens to be in the 8th house of natural zodiac. The 8th house is

house of transformation or Shrustikarana. Here you transform to

become like Indra that is the diety associated with Jyestha nakshatra

that follows Anuradha. This is may be Vishvamitra's new Shrustikarna!

This is 'Dhimahi...' i.e. intelligence. Every creation will have

intelligence. When shrusti meets the intelligence of Pramatma, self

or lagna is formed. When you transform yourself to Vishva Mitra, Devi

Mahalaxmi automatically follows. It is said that Mahalaxmi enters

your home on Anuradha nakstra! The Moon is most debilitated when it

is in 4th pada of Vishaka lorded by Indragni. The Moon is the

sustenance of the world. The Moon gains the strength when it comes to

Anuradha lorded by Mitra. This nakshara helps the Vishva provided you

are ready to be like Mitra and hence VishvMitra! That is why it is

Prana of the Universe. Gaya is Prana."Gaytranat Gayatri". Extarnal

manifestation of Prana is Ravi who is Paramatma and internal

expression as amsha of Pramatma is Atma. The Pranayam is Ayan of

Prana which is nothing but Ayan of Surya. That leads to 12 rashis.

See, the mantra that is very basis of Vedic Jyotish as it is realted

to Shrustikarana or Lagna or Dhi,Ravi and Chandra how can be done

with these restriction of not to chant louldly? Can it then give the

required light? Having such restriction is similar to some people's

belief that Gayatri is Cursed and you must remove that Curse before

you are initiated into gyatri Upasana! Can anybody curse Gayatri?

Even if it is believed to be cursed do we have the power to decurse

it? Similarly, it is believed that we should sing Gayatri ofcourse

with propper swara. Chadagopanishad gives good description of

Gayatri.

 

Why it is given in Karna(right) at the time of Upanayan?

 

The simple reason could be that it is reffered as GuruMukha. Every

vedic Mantra must be taken from the Mukha of Guru.The mantra should

be taken from GuruMukha in right Karna(Ear). Because it is said that

seven devatas reside in right karna.

Agni,Jala,Vayu,Ravi,Chandra,Varuna, and Veda. Veda as God resides in

right Karna so Vedic Mantras should be taken in right karna.

Incidentaly,Guru(Jupiter) rules karna. This is what I could figure

out on Jyotisha level. There may be some other reason possibly at

Spiritual level but I am satisfied even when I get one good

astrological/dharmik reason for any belief.

 

 

Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.

 

Prabodh Vekhande

Jai Jai Shankar

Har Har Shankar

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004"

<panditarjun2004 wrote:

>

> dear prabodh ji

>

> you are discussing two issues.

>

> one is that narasimha is blindly following his guru's advice of not

> speaking out gayatri mantra loudly which you are finding

illogical.

> here i support and appreciate narasimha for the faith and upkeeping

> on the word of his guru. under the traditional susrusha, a shisya

> blindly follows the orders of his guru without questioning it. if

a

> person does not want to listen to his guru and listen to his own

> self then the old saying comes "yukti yuktam vako grahyam baladapi

> sukadapi (parrot) yukti heenam vakas tyajyam vruddhadapi sukadapi

> (sage suka)".

>

> other is that narasima has hummed the mantra and thus violated the

> word given to his guru. here too i appreciate narasimha for his

> REPEATED CLARIFICATION IN ALL MAILS that his intent is to spread

the

> usefulness of gayatri and help those people who forgot to worship

> the living god sun by chanting gayatri.

>

> but i personally differ to his stance that what was said in rigveda

> and what was pronounced by one person is correct. all mantra and

> all suktams are chanted in varying accents (intonations) in the

> north, in the east, in the south and in the west. no one shall

> criticise the others pronounciation as wrong. if a south indian

> listens to the suktams chanted in kashi, he would not understand

but

> he must not criticise them. kashi which has been the only sanskrit

> learning centre has produced thousands of sanskrit scholars and

most

> of them do not pronounce the gayatri in the south indian way as

> narrated by narasimha even if it is the most correct one. too much

> emphasis in saying that only one intonation is correct and others

> are wrong will defeat the very purpose of mantras. after all

> shraddha is primary and intonation is secondary. if lord ram is

> pronounced as ram in the north, as raman, ramam, rama and ramu in

> the four southern states in four different ways, there is no harm.

> even lord subrahmanya is prnounced in four different ways like

> subrahmanya, subrahmanyam, subramaniam, subramanian. are the four

> southern states finding fault with each other in these

distortions.

> NO.

>

> let us all chant gayatri with or without mala (no fighting on what

> mala to be used) and with right or wrong pronounciation.

>

> two organisations have done great service to the humanity in

> spreading the usefullness of gayatri. first is arya samaj and

> second is the gayatri parivar whose website (link given below) is a

> must visit for all gayatri chanters.

>

> http://www.awgp.org/gamma/

>

> with best wishes

> pandit arjun

>

> vedic astrology, "Prabodh Vekhande"

> <amolmandar@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Panditarjun Namaste

> >

> > > in our throwing more light on rudraksha, japamala and other

> things,

> > > the intention of spreading light on the usefulness of gayatri

is

> > > getting lost and hence i wish to touch this aspect which is the

> > > objective of narasimha when he wrote his mail on this subject

> first.

> > >

> >

> > I think nobody objects to the objective of Narsimha. All problem

> > started with his humming of Gayatri. Narsimha is humming because

> he

> > has a strong belief that saying Gayatri louldly will take away

> some

> > power(which he needs from Gayatri). Similarly some have strong

> belief

> > that humming any mantra insults that manta and hence should be

> > avoided. After all there may be a reason to your belief and

there

> > may not be! But when belief comes in the discussions logic ends

> and

> > hence the discussions.

> >

> > As a matter of fact Narsimha should explain why is he not ready

to

> > say it loudly once? (or Why his spiritual Guru does not allow him

> to

> > say Gayatri louldly even once? we should ask this question to his

> > spiritiual Guru!) Narsimha may,according to his belief,lose some

> > power of mantra but that would be a great sacrifice for the

> > betterment of the mankind. Moreover getting power and losing

power

> > by/of mantra is not a tangible thing and hence he may not realize

> it

> > as well(with the blessings/support from his spiritual Guru he may

> not

> > loose the power as well! Who knows?).

> >

> > Is it not surprising that his belief allows to 'Hum' but does not

> > allow to say properly! As if while humming he has not lost the

> power

> > of Mantra! It does not sound very correct and hence all questions

> > raised and doubts asked.

> >

> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Sapce.

> >

> > Prabodh Vekhande

> > Jai Jai Shankar

> > Har Har Shankar

> >

> > vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004"

> > <panditarjun2004@> wrote:

> > >

> > > dear sanjay ji

> > >

> > > according to shiva puran, lord shiva mentions various types of

> > malas

> > > to be used for mantra japam and the the list ends with the

> > rudraksha

> > > which gives countelss number of times higher results if any

> mantra

> > > is chanted with a rudraksha japamala. generally since 5mukh

> mala

> > is

> > > available in abundance is easily affordable even by a poor man,

> it

> > > is most oft used by all for various mantra japams. no where it

> is

> > > written that rudraksha mala shall not be used for doing a

> > particular

> > > mantra japam. even in other texts speciic malas might have

been

> > > recommended for specific gods and worships but no where in any

> > > classic prohibition on rudraksha mala is imposed, especially

for

> > > chanting gayatri.

> > >

> > > attribution of lords in relation to the number of mukh is a

> > > different thing e.g. 4mukh for brahma, 6mukh for skanda, 10mukh

> for

> > > vishnu and 12mukh for surya.

> > >

> > > since gayatri is meant for surya, using a 12mukh rudraksha

> japamala

> > > would give higher results but 5mukh japamala is not prohibited

> for

> > > gayatri japam.

> > >

> > > in our throwing more light on rudraksha, japamala and other

> things,

> > > the intention of spreading light on the usefulness of gayatri

is

> > > getting lost and hence i wish to touch this aspect which is the

> > > objective of narasimha when he wrote his mail on this subject

> first.

> > >

> > > it is written in shiva puran that a brahmin who does not do

> sandhya

> > > vandanam daily and do not offer arghyam to surya daily can do a

> > > pryaschit by way of chanting extra gayatri mantra japam.

> however,

> > > if he does not do these things (sandhya vandanam and arghyam)

> for

> > > more than a month, upanayana samskaram has to be performed

> again.

> > > since getting upanayanam again is insulting and not practical

> for

> > > all erring brahmins who do not do sandhya vandanam and arghyam,

> it

> > > is best if they do extra gayatri mantra japam. if they do the

> > > mantra japam with a 12mukh rudraksha mala, they would get even

> > > higher results.

> > >

> > > in view of the above, instead of focusing too much on micro

> level

> > > nitty gritty, let us spread the benefits of gayatri and request

> one

> > > and all to do gayatri mantra japam daily and get the grace of

> the

> > > sun who is none other than lord shiva.

> > >

> > > with best wishes

> > > pandit arjun

> > >

> > >

> > > > To Mr Arjuna: Narasimha please also see

> > > > 4. The reference in the Siva Purana is extolling the

greatness

> of

> > > the

> > > > rudraksha after describing the mantras for the different

types

> of

> > > > Rudraksha. For example the 12 mukhi rudraksha is for Surya

and

> 10

> > > > mukhi is for Vishnu. If you are using this specific face

> > rudraksha

> > > and

> > > > also doing the mantras of Surya or Vishnu or any other devata

> > > based on

> > > > the number of mukhi, it is fine.

> > > >

> > > > When we use the word Rudraksha in general, it refers to the

> > > > panchamukhi rudraksha. The pancamukhi is for the panchamukha

> > devata

> > > > and to my knowledge this is ONLY LORD SHIVA (Brahma had 5

> heads,

> > > but

> > > > lost one due to indiscretion, so He is chaturmukhi). This

> > > rudraksha is

> > > > the best for panchakshari or shadakshari mantra sadhana,

> > > especially if

> > > > the mantra initiation has been done on a panchami.

> > > >

> > > > Hope this clarfies.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

|| Om Gurave Namah ||

Dear Narasimha and Jyotishas,

 

I read thru the Pingala's Chhandas at,

 

http://is1.mum.edu/vedicreserve/chhandas/chhandas.pdf

 

It seems very similar to Jaimini Upadesa sutram. It's very precise and

difficult to understand. Is there any simple translation?. Just to get some

basics on channdas, to get some basic idea on mantras.

 

If we consider this to be like JUS(Jaimini Updesa) is there any BPHS form

for chhandas?

 

Warm Regards

sanjay P

 

 

 

 

On 7/7/06, Ajit Krishnan <ajit.krishnan > wrote:

>

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

>

> > Please read Pingala's chhandas.

>

> Thank you for the reference. I will look for it.

>

>

> > Regarding the assertion above

> > ("naturally change the chandas of the mantra"),

> > I beg to differ.

>

> Explaining my limited understanding furthur, I believe there are two

> possibilities. (1) where the samputa is recited as part of the mantra

> proper, and thus, changes the mantra's chandas. For example, panchakshari

> vs. shadakshari (2) where a pause is given between the recitation of the

> samputa and the mantra-proper, and thus, the chandas of the mantra remains

> unchanged. For example, the recitation of the savitur mantra in south

> india,

> where the chandas for each set of samputas is separately known, and where

> a

> definite pause is given between the samputas and the mantra-proper.

>

> ajit

>

>

>