Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Dear Neena, //BTW, since you are using PL, could you please check if any of the planets have moved in Bhava charts? The effects may get modified if they have moved. Iam still on jhora software.// Yes, Mercury has moved to 8th house... //I am still looking for clues to fraudulent behaviour in this chart. Mars in rasi sandhi is one weak link but is it enough to have brought about such an enormous securities fraud? Mars may have moved in the bhava chart. I do not know. We do know that he started ENRON in Mars dasa.// Mars, in 10th and aspecting 1st, 4th and 5th, is a functional malefic for this chart... What does this say about his desire, his ambition and the effect of this on these important houses. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "neenako" <neenako > <jyotish-vidya> Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:01 AM Re: Kenneth Lay - Dear Wendy, Yes there seems a problem with the group mails. I have tried posting messages a couple of times then gave it up. This is an intermittent problem. Regarding Lay's chart, you are right about the maalika yoga. It had escaped my attention. But also notice that according to Nabhasa yogas, 7 planets in 5 houses tends to make a person ' talkative, characterless and may be imprisoned'. BTW, since you are using PL, could you please check if any of the planets have moved in Bhava charts? The effects may get modified if they have moved. Iam still on jhora software. I am still looking for clues to fraudulent behaviour in this chart. Mars in rasi sandhi is one weak link but is it enough to have brought about such an enormous securities fraud? Mars may have moved in the bhava chart. I do not know. We do know that he started ENRON in Mars dasa. Regards, Neena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 -- Dear Wendy, I agree with you regarding the nabhasa yoga. Anyway, it occurs so frequently that one wonders whether it would have such a great impact on the native. Mercury has moved to the 8th house. So that does explain further the weakness of lagna and 10th. Regards, Neena. - In jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Neena, > > //BTW, since you are using PL, could you please check if any of the > planets have moved in Bhava charts? The effects may get modified if > they have moved. Iam still on jhora software.// > > Yes, Mercury has moved to 8th house... > > //I am still looking for clues to fraudulent behaviour in this chart. > Mars in rasi sandhi is one weak link but is it enough to have > brought about such an enormous securities fraud? Mars may have moved > in the bhava chart. I do not know. We do know that he started ENRON > in Mars dasa.// > > Mars, in 10th and aspecting 1st, 4th and 5th, is a functional malefic > for this chart... What does this say about his desire, his ambition > and the effect of this on these important houses. > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > ______________________________ > > - > "neenako" <neenako > <jyotish-vidya> > Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:01 AM > Re: Kenneth Lay > > > - > Dear Wendy, > > Yes there seems a problem with the group mails. I have tried > posting messages a couple of times then gave it up. This is an > intermittent problem. > > Regarding Lay's chart, you are right about the maalika yoga. It had > escaped my attention. But also notice that according to Nabhasa > yogas, 7 planets in 5 houses tends to make a person ' talkative, > characterless and may be imprisoned'. > > BTW, since you are using PL, could you please check if any of the > planets have moved in Bhava charts? The effects may get modified if > they have moved. Iam still on jhora software. > > I am still looking for clues to fraudulent behaviour in this chart. > Mars in rasi sandhi is one weak link but is it enough to have > brought about such an enormous securities fraud? Mars may have moved > in the bhava chart. I do not know. We do know that he started ENRON > in Mars dasa. > > Regards, > > Neena > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 - In continuation of the previous post, the timing of his crisis period is associated with the dasa of 12th house Rahu and Mars. I will go back to one of my previous messages wherein I had mentioned about the impact of Rahu/Mars dasa. Mars bhukti of Rahu dasa ( depending on the situation of the two of course) can almost wipe one out financially. Bhukti of an ill placed ( here It is in rasi sandhi) Mars under Rahu dasa ( here Rahu is placed in the 12th house) made him suffer the worst financial, professional,social and family crises. the 4th house transit of Saturn hastened the end. All the best, Neena -- In jyotish-vidya, "neenako" <neenako wrote: > > -- > Dear Wendy, > > I agree with you regarding the nabhasa yoga. Anyway, it occurs so > frequently that one wonders whether it would have such a great > impact on the native. > > Mercury has moved to the 8th house. So that does explain further the > weakness of lagna and 10th. > > Regards, > > Neena. > - In jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Neena, > > > > //BTW, since you are using PL, could you please check if any of the > > planets have moved in Bhava charts? The effects may get modified if > > they have moved. Iam still on jhora software.// > > > > Yes, Mercury has moved to 8th house... > > > > //I am still looking for clues to fraudulent behaviour in this > chart. > > Mars in rasi sandhi is one weak link but is it enough to have > > brought about such an enormous securities fraud? Mars may have > moved > > in the bhava chart. I do not know. We do know that he started ENRON > > in Mars dasa.// > > > > Mars, in 10th and aspecting 1st, 4th and 5th, is a functional > malefic > > for this chart... What does this say about his desire, his > ambition > > and the effect of this on these important houses. > > > > Best Wishes, > > Mrs. Wendy > > http://JyotishVidya.com > > ______________________________ > > > > - > > "neenako" <neenako@> > > <jyotish-vidya> > > Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:01 AM > > Re: Kenneth Lay > > > > > > - > > Dear Wendy, > > > > Yes there seems a problem with the group mails. I have tried > > posting messages a couple of times then gave it up. This is an > > intermittent problem. > > > > Regarding Lay's chart, you are right about the maalika yoga. It had > > escaped my attention. But also notice that according to Nabhasa > > yogas, 7 planets in 5 houses tends to make a person ' talkative, > > characterless and may be imprisoned'. > > > > BTW, since you are using PL, could you please check if any of the > > planets have moved in Bhava charts? The effects may get modified if > > they have moved. Iam still on jhora software. > > > > I am still looking for clues to fraudulent behaviour in this chart. > > Mars in rasi sandhi is one weak link but is it enough to have > > brought about such an enormous securities fraud? Mars may have > moved > > in the bhava chart. I do not know. We do know that he started ENRON > > in Mars dasa. > > > > Regards, > > > > Neena > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Dear Patrice and All, To give due credit (which I failed to do previously...too caught up with computer malfunctions at the time and didn't think). The below information on Malika yogas is taken (in part) from Ernst Wilhelm's 'Core Yogas'... //"Malika Yogas are not dasa dependent but, rather, set a foundation for success to come during the life of the native. Normally a planet must form many success-producing yogas for its dasa to give outstanding success, however, if a Malika Yoga is present, a planet forming even just one success producing yoga will give outstanding success. The result of a specific Malika Yoga is dependent upon the house from which the yoga begins. The indications of that house will dictate the theme of the yoga."// Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> <jyotish-vidya> Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:55 PM Re: Re: Kenneth Lay Dear Patrice, //Wendy, with pancha-malika yoga, besides the yoga itself, are all planets involved in this yoga considered strengthened?// Malika Yogas are not dasa dependent but, rather, set a foundation for success to come during the life of the native. Normally a planet must form many success-producing yogas for its dasa to give outstanding success, however, if a Malika Yoga is present, a planet forming even just one success producing yoga will give outstanding success. The result of a specific Malika Yoga is dependent upon the house from which the yoga begins. The indications of that house will dictate the theme of the yoga. With this yoga beginning in 6th we see the great (career) success arising from his ability to rise above any and all competitors, wouldn't you agree? //These both show so much more the details clearly of this man's life, as well this planet Venus starting this yoga. Interesting this did end in lawsuits and his conviction with the houses involved.// Note Saturn's transit through Cancer (natal Moon in 8th)...he was indicted Jul 2004. This Saturn BTW also owns 8th from 10th. //Navamsa also shows more that it would be older sisters with 3H lord Mercury in debility in 12H with Ketu, however vargotama, and as mentioned Mercury lorded Gemini lords this Mars in rasi chart. Ve/Sa togther in 11H in Saturn's own house and Saturn final depositor of Navamsa chart.// Better to consult the Dreshkana (D3) for siblings... PS: My mouse has just given up the ghost? Having to use arrow keys to navigate around...what a pain! PPS: After HOURS of diagnostics and much pulling of hair and gnashing of teeth (not to mention a few choice words hurled at this rotten computer) I finally discovered the mouse needed new batteries... unbelievable!! Rx Mercury is playing havoc with me :-( Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "Patrice Curry" <patricecurry (AT) adelphia (DOT) net> <jyotish-vidya> Monday, July 10, 2006 11:41 PM RE: Re: Kenneth Lay Hi Dear Wendy and Neena and All, Thanks for this Wendy, this - great point regarding this pancha-malika yoga. Also, I thoroughly enjoyed the article you've shared and the insight it lends on these houses, very, very interesting, many thanks for sharing this. The focus on these houses also prompted me to look for any articles mentioning Kenneth Lay's siblings. Looking at the 3rd lord, Mars, and the condition of Mars, sandhi, also owing 12H and 8 houses from 3H and in natural 3H Gemini, it seems he would be without siblings perhaps or at least brothers which are more strongly indicated by Mars itself. I finally did find an article stating that he had left behind two sisters. Hmmm, I'm thinking older, but don't know if this is true, whether they are older or younger or a mix of the two. 11H is Cancer, Cancer and Moon feminine. Moon's depositor is Mars again (12H from 11H again no brothers/Mars), and Moon in his 8H, conjoined but with exalted Sun and as you stated, 10 houses from 11H. Venus is actually final depositor for this Moon, who has the exchange with Saturn. again perhaps older siblings, and Jupiter is conjoined this Saturn, Jupiter again can represent older siblings. Also this Venus has as you've said Rahu for nakshatra lord, and importantly there is actually a parivartana at the nakshatra level with Venus and Rahu. So, although no brothers, still siblings - and that Mars in Gemini, two siblings?.. Navamsa also shows more that it would be older sisters with 3H lord Mercury in debility in 12H with Ketu, however vargotama, and as mentioned Mercury lorded Gemini lords this Mars in rasi chart. Ve/Sa togther in 11H in Saturn's own house and Saturn final depositor of Navamsa chart. This Venus is so important in this chart and also was final depositor of chart at time of death. I've been looking for more and more indications for why this Venus is clearly so involved in this man's chart for his successes and your point of this pancha-malika yoga is a great one here, as well your point of Rahu as star lord. Now looking at what Neena has added with the power lended to the planets due to parivartana, we actually see this Venus is involved in two parivartanas, with two powerful planets in this chart, Saturn, who in this chart is a great friend, and Rahu at the more subtle level of nakshatra lord. These both show so much more the details clearly of this man's life, as well this planet Venus starting this yoga. Interesting this did end in lawsuits and his conviction with the houses involved. Wendy, with pancha-malika yoga, besides the yoga itself, are all planets involved in this yoga considered strengthened? Best wishes, Patrice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 - Yes, Wendy, the graha malika probably was the contributing factor to his rise in life. Do you think there is any significance to its starting from the 6th house(Venus)? Regards, Neena -- In jyotish-vidya, "wenvasuk" <jyotish wrote: > > Resending via web... > > Dear Neena and All, > > Has anyone noticed the pancha-malika yoga? All major planets in five > consecutive houses starting with Venus in 6th house of work and > ending with Mars in 10th house of career. Some say malika yogas > should begin from either lagna or Sun, however there are numerous > examples of this yoga's effectiveness from any house. > > Members might like to look closer at this bearing in mind Venus' > nakshatra lord Rahu...great worldly benefits through work. Also note > Rahu's dispositor in 11th from 10th conjunct 11th lord Moon. > > I recently came across an interesting article (regarding 11th) which > I think is worth reproducing here... > > "The 11th lord is one of the three trishadaya lords 3, 6, 11, which > is an often overlooked category houses. The malefic quality of the > 11th house is greed as it is one of the three kama or desire houses > (3, 7, 11). B.P Malviya has written an excellent article > called, "The > Mystic Trio in Astrology" in K.N. Rao's book, Advanced Techniques of > Astrological Predictions. He quotes the Bhagavad Gita as saying: > > "Tri-vidham narakasyedam dvaram nasanam atmanah > kamah, krodhas tatha lobhas tasmad etat trayam tyajet." > > Which translates as: > "Desire, anger and greed - the triple gate of hell bring about the > ruination of the soul. Therefore one should avoid all these three." > Ch 16 verse 21 > > Mr. Malviya points out that desire, anger and greed are represented > by the trishadaya houses 3, 6, and 11 respectively, which are > opposite the most important houses for spiritual advancement: 9, 12 > and 5 houses. Being the last of the trishadaya trio, the 11th house > is the most powerful. He says, > > "Every gain or success paves the way for another effort, as the more > one gains, the more greedy one tends to be." > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > ______________________________ > > - > "neenako" <neenako > <jyotish-vidya> > Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:13 PM > Re: Kenneth Lay > > > - > So, till now we have the following: > > Reasons for rise > > 1. Vargottama Sun, Venus, Mercury > 2. Moon in exalted navamsa > 3. Saturn in own navamsa > 4. VRY, lord of 12th in 8th > > In addition we have the parivartan of Saturn and Venus. Any exchange > makes both planets strong whether for good or bad. So there is a > strong 6th house and a strong 9th house. A strong 9th gives among > other things a good higher education. Saturn ,lord of 5th in 5th > therefrom, and strong in navamsa can give gains from securiies and > speculation. Jupiter's position in the 9th with Saturn also > indicates the same. > > As far as Mercury is concerned, though it is debilitated, its > vargottama position and aspect to lagna makes lagna strong. > > In addition to the 10th house , we should also have a look at the > 2nd, 3rd and 9th houses to understand the rise in this chart. > > Reasons for Fall: > > As Patrice has pointed out the weaknesses in the chart, they are > responsible for the fall . > > I am not very sure what we can attribute the fraud to. Moon is a > malefic due to its low pakshbala. And planets in 8th house can give > unearned wealth. Sun and Moon both can give wealth, at the same time > Sun's lordship of the 12th leads to loss of wealth. And this duty > was performed by Rahu ( with Sun as its dispositor). > > May be other members can point out some features which have escaped > our attention till now. > > A very big reason for the fall is VRY. It has been noticed in a > number of charts that VRY can give a rajyoga but also can lead to an > unexpected fall. (Ref:horoscopes of Sheikh Mujibur Rehman, Indira > Gandhi, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto). These are all political figures. Does > the same extend to business men and fraudsters? > > Sun in 8th also indicates his father's mediocre status in > childhood. > > The timing of death and the effects of transits have all been > clearly shown by Patrice. > > Hope to hear from other list members too. Especially about the fraud > angle. > > Regards, > > Neena > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Dear List, When a yoga gives positive result, the houses involved would also give their colour to the effects. The said yoga starts from 6th house and the axis is 6/12. From a different angle, view this: 6th house stands for poverty - Kenneth Lay rose from near-poverty to the pinnacle of corporate America. 6th house stands for court and the axis extends to confinement or prison – Kenneth Lay had to be in prison of the rest of his life after his conviction May 25 of fraud and conspiracy. 6th house stands for lies, fraud and conspiracy - Kenneth Lay was remained out of public eye for fraud and conspiracy for lying to employees and investors about Enron's financial health. - Along with fraud and conspiracy charges, Lay also was convicted in a separate federal trial of bank fraud and making false statements to banks. Those charges related to his personal finances. Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Dear Neena and All, Unfortunately all these (sent and resent) mails are surfacing...apologies to all who must be sick of reading the same post over and over :-( Obviously I need to revert to my previous policy of waiting 24 hrs to see if they turn up (before resending). //Do you think there is any significance to its starting from the 6th house(Venus)?// Certainly! As I said in earlier mail, this house shows (amongst other things) our ability to rise above competitors and rivals, to turn obstacles into opportunities and so forth. He certainly had this ability, wouldn't you say? The exchange between 6th/9th lords shows his ability to find solutions to problems etc.. However, we also have to be mindful of the presence of Ketu in 6th (conjunct 2nd/9th lord). Ketu, we know, can be deceitful...keeps things hidden! And, in financial matters (2nd house), it was this deceit (fraud) that was his undoing...6th house, we know, also shows debts, conflicts, and not forgetting 6th lord Saturn's lordship of 5th. (8th from 10th)...fall from position. Interesting to note that 6th lord Saturn and 10th lord Mercury in 2nd and 12th from SU/MO (respectively) form both Ubhayachari yoga and Duradhara yoga...how powerful is this Malika yoga that starts and ends with the houses of work...6th (daily work, competitors, subordinates) and 10th (commerce, career, success & status). The more one looks at this chart the more interesting it becomes... Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ______________________________ - "neenako" <neenako > <jyotish-vidya> Wednesday, July 12, 2006 12:20 PM Re: Kenneth Lay - Yes, Wendy, the graha malika probably was the contributing factor to his rise in life. Do you think there is any significance to its starting from the 6th house(Venus)? Regards, Neena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Dear Wendy, You wrote: " The more one looks at this chart the more interesting it becomes....." Absolutely true!! The more one focuses on the chart the pattern starts emerging. Its truly fascinating. Neena jyotish-vidya, "Wendy Vasicek" <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Neena and All, > > Unfortunately all these (sent and resent) mails are > surfacing...apologies to all who must be sick of reading the same > post over and over :-( > > Obviously I need to revert to my previous policy of waiting 24 hrs to > see if they turn up (before resending). > > //Do you think there is any significance to its starting from the 6th > house(Venus)?// > > Certainly! As I said in earlier mail, this house shows (amongst other > things) our ability to rise above competitors and rivals, to turn > obstacles into opportunities and so forth. He certainly had this > ability, wouldn't you say? > > The exchange between 6th/9th lords shows his ability to find > solutions to problems etc.. However, we also have to be mindful of > the presence of Ketu in 6th (conjunct 2nd/9th lord). Ketu, we know, > can be deceitful...keeps things hidden! And, in financial matters > (2nd house), it was this deceit (fraud) that was his undoing...6th > house, we know, also shows debts, conflicts, and not forgetting 6th > lord Saturn's lordship of 5th. (8th from 10th)...fall from position. > > Interesting to note that 6th lord Saturn and 10th lord Mercury in 2nd > and 12th from SU/MO (respectively) form both Ubhayachari yoga and > Duradhara yoga...how powerful is this Malika yoga that starts and > ends with the houses of work...6th (daily work, competitors, > subordinates) and 10th (commerce, career, success & status). > > The more one looks at this chart the more interesting it becomes... > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > ______________________________ > > - > "neenako" <neenako > <jyotish-vidya> > Wednesday, July 12, 2006 12:20 PM > Re: Kenneth Lay > > > - > Yes, Wendy, the graha malika probably was the contributing factor to > his rise in life. > > Do you think there is any significance to its starting from the 6th > house(Venus)? > > Regards, > Neena > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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