RE: A controversial article on vedic astrology

[Guest guest]

Dear members

 

Pradeep shared the article with me in his mail. I request members to read the article and post their views. It is worth debating the merits of the article. Since, I do not know much about astronomical basis of ayanamsa, the learned members may have sound reasonings against the arguments of the article.

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

 

 

>

> psd1955

> Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:02:28 +0530

> pradeep0890

> A controversial article on vedic astrology

>

>

> Dear Sir,

>

> An interesting and maybe even a controversial article on vedic astrology

> by an eminent Jyotishi of India.

>

> In case you have already read this article kindly pardon me.

>

> http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm

>

> Regards,

> Pradeep

[Guest guest]

dear prafulla ji

 

shri avtar krishen kaul ji had been active in all astro groups a

year ago and had put forth his views. even though most of his views

are based on facts, he is highly critical of other systems followed

and even called all other followers of other systems insane. in

pursuits of knowledge and researches, he shall be willing to listen

to others also instead of just harping on his one theory. hence he

is now active only in hiw group hinducalender where i am also a

member.

 

i highly appreciate his researches most of which are based on facts

and endorse many of them too, but we shall respect other systems and

not drub all others as insane.

 

since shri kaul is not active in this group now, it is not prudent

to write on him or on his articles unless he comes to participate in

this group in a two way communications instead of harping himself as

right and all others are wrong.

 

with best wishes

pandit arjun

 

 

, Prafulla Gang <jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear members

>

> Pradeep shared the article with me in his mail. I request members

to read the article and post their views. It is worth debating the

merits of the article. Since, I do not know much about astronomical

basis of ayanamsa, the learned members may have sound reasonings

against the arguments of the article.

>

> regards / Prafulla Gang

>

> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another,

and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>

>

> >

> > psd1955

> > Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:02:28 +0530

> > pradeep0890

> > A controversial article on vedic astrology

> >

> >

> > Dear Sir,

> >

> > An interesting and maybe even a controversial article on vedic

astrology

> > by an eminent Jyotishi of India.

> >

> > In case you have already read this article kindly pardon me.

> >

> > http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm

> >

> > Regards,

> > Pradeep

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Pandit Arjun ji

 

I appreciate your views. However, is it not prudent to put forth the rationale - else may be we (as jyotish community) continue to follow the wrong ayanamsa and in turn, the entire chart reading becomes wasteful exercise (though I feel that if the currently used ayanamsa are wrong then, how come experienced astrologers predict for millions of people).

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

 

 

>

> panditarjun2004

> Fri, 07 Jul 2006 13:43:39 -0000

>

> Re: A controversial article on vedic astrology

>

> dear prafulla ji

>

> shri avtar krishen kaul ji had been active in all astro groups a

> year ago and had put forth his views. even though most of his views

> are based on facts, he is highly critical of other systems followed

> and even called all other followers of other systems insane. in

> pursuits of knowledge and researches, he shall be willing to listen

> to others also instead of just harping on his one theory. hence he

> is now active only in hiw group hinducalender where i am also a

> member.

>

> i highly appreciate his researches most of which are based on facts

> and endorse many of them too, but we shall respect other systems and

> not drub all others as insane.

>

> since shri kaul is not active in this group now, it is not prudent

> to write on him or on his articles unless he comes to participate in

> this group in a two way communications instead of harping himself as

> right and all others are wrong.

>

> with best wishes

> pandit arjun

>

>

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear members

>>

>> Pradeep shared the article with me in his mail. I request members

> to read the article and post their views. It is worth debating the

> merits of the article. Since, I do not know much about astronomical

> basis of ayanamsa, the learned members may have sound reasonings

> against the arguments of the article.

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another,

> and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>

>>

>>>

>>> psd1955

>>> Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:02:28 +0530

>>> pradeep0890

>>> A controversial article on vedic astrology

>>>

>>>

>>> Dear Sir,

>>>

>>> An interesting and maybe even a controversial article on vedic

> astrology

>>> by an eminent Jyotishi of India.

>>>

>>> In case you have already read this article kindly pardon me.

>>>

>>> http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm

>>>

>>> Regards,

>>> Pradeep

>>

[Guest guest]

dear prafulla ji

 

unfortunately prediction is not entirely based on the rules or

principles of astrology that too of one vedic system or one

ayanamsha. all astrologers who make successful predictions have an

element of intuition or clairvoyance.

 

hence astrology is not a branch of science (100% workable on

computer alone without human involvement) which is why no university

in india is having astrology as a subject.

 

with best wishes

pandit arjun

, Prafulla Gang <jyotish

wrote:

>

> Dear Pandit Arjun ji

>

> I appreciate your views. However, is it not prudent to put forth

the rationale - else may be we (as jyotish community) continue to

follow the wrong ayanamsa and in turn, the entire chart reading

becomes wasteful exercise (though I feel that if the currently used

ayanamsa are wrong then, how come experienced astrologers predict

for millions of people).

>

> regards / Prafulla Gang

>

> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another,

and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>

>

> >

> > panditarjun2004

> > Fri, 07 Jul 2006 13:43:39 -0000

> >

> > Re: A controversial article on vedic astrology

> >

> > dear prafulla ji

> >

> > shri avtar krishen kaul ji had been active in all astro groups a

> > year ago and had put forth his views. even though most of his

views

> > are based on facts, he is highly critical of other systems

followed

> > and even called all other followers of other systems insane. in

> > pursuits of knowledge and researches, he shall be willing to

listen

> > to others also instead of just harping on his one theory. hence

he

> > is now active only in hiw group hinducalender where i am also a

> > member.

> >

> > i highly appreciate his researches most of which are based on

facts

> > and endorse many of them too, but we shall respect other systems

and

> > not drub all others as insane.

> >

> > since shri kaul is not active in this group now, it is not

prudent

> > to write on him or on his articles unless he comes to

participate in

> > this group in a two way communications instead of harping

himself as

> > right and all others are wrong.

> >

> > with best wishes

> > pandit arjun

> >

> >

> > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> >>

> >> Dear members

> >>

> >> Pradeep shared the article with me in his mail. I request

members

> > to read the article and post their views. It is worth debating

the

> > merits of the article. Since, I do not know much about

astronomical

> > basis of ayanamsa, the learned members may have sound reasonings

> > against the arguments of the article.

> >>

> >> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>

> >> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and

another,

> > and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

> >>

> >>

> >>>

> >>> psd1955@

> >>> Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:02:28 +0530

> >>> pradeep0890@

> >>> A controversial article on vedic astrology

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Dear Sir,

> >>>

> >>> An interesting and maybe even a controversial article on vedic

> > astrology

> >>> by an eminent Jyotishi of India.

> >>>

> >>> In case you have already read this article kindly pardon me.

> >>>

> >>> http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm

> >>>

> >>> Regards,

> >>> Pradeep

> >>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaskaar All

 

Sri Sreenadh and I had a major discussion on the same with Sri Kaul and one

more person who too went all out on similar lines.

 

Sri Finn Windhall had written a wrong reply to him to which he did not

respond. All this is available in the

archives of Vedic Astrology and Jyotish Groups.

 

The problem is the same thing is repeated again after a few weeks or months

and we are all expected to respond.

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

 

 

On 7/7/06, Prafulla Gang <jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Dear members

>

> Pradeep shared the article with me in his mail. I request members to read

> the article and post their views. It is worth debating the merits of the

> article. Since, I do not know much about astronomical basis of ayanamsa, the

> learned members may have sound reasonings against the arguments of the

> article.

>

> regards / Prafulla Gang

>

> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and

> another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>

> >

> > psd1955 <psd1955%40gmail.com>

> > Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:02:28 +0530

> > pradeep0890 <pradeep0890%40>

> > A controversial article on vedic astrology

> >

> >

> > Dear Sir,

> >

> > An interesting and maybe even a controversial article on vedic astrology

> > by an eminent Jyotishi of India.

> >

> > In case you have already read this article kindly pardon me.

> >

> > http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm

> >

> > Regards,

> > Pradeep

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Tatvam Asi ji

 

Without Prejudice

 

I am just trying to think from different perspective.

 

Yes, intuition / sadhana / bhakti etc have greater role in prediction; and many people, I also met - who could tell without any astrology (chart in particular). We are not discussing them for the purpose of predictive astrology. and If astological subject has no relevance, then why this forum and discussions on technical issues?

 

I am not saying that the theory of Mr kaul makes sense or not; and as Shri Pandit Arjun ji stated in his previous mails that - many of the statements of Shri Kaul is based upon facts. and if that is fact, then only one of it can be true.

 

Yes, both can be different theories / systems; but there must have been rationale behind any of two (or for both) to be correct. I do not intend to dispute the possibility that the jyotish, what we all learnt is wrong. But possible, we are pursuing it with wrong ayanamsa (I do not have knowledge of astronomy..and am not competent to comment). and If so, then wrong chart is as bad (good) as no chart!!!!! and putting down the role of chart and all predictions through intuition means that - whatever astro factors, we are discussing is meaningless and the research thereupon too. All theories are bogus???? No, I personally feel, all can not be bogus..so there must be rationale behind the "vedic astrology read with its ayanamsa".

 

Perhaps, people familiar with tropical astrology can pin point the predictive accuracy vis a vis ayanamsa. There are so many scholars on the astrology books, vedic literature..and this is indeed a probing question - which ayanamsa sage Parashar or other great rishis followed ?

 

I am not comfortable with unnecessary criticism of vedic astrologers, their hypothesis etc ; so my mail must not be read as my acceptance of other statements. But certainly, it is indeed a big question that - do we pursue correct chart? and if yes - then we must be having same rationale of ayanamsa as sage Parashar had..and if so then what is it? Perhaps, we astrologer community do not have valid answers to them and we are siding with what we follow - with or without rationale?

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

 

 

>

> om_tatsat_om

> Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:18:49 -0700 (PDT)

>

> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic astrology...2

> cents

>

> Friends,

>

> If your Bhakti, Sadhana and Intution are weak , even if you master

> astrology, you will never be able to predict accurately.

> If some one is failing, the fault lies with some one's karma.

> Such people will find excuses to justify their failures.

> Tatvam-Asi

>

> Nachanhari ka aangan tedha

>

>

>

> Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology > wrote:

> Namaskaar All

>

> Sri Sreenadh and I had a major discussion on the same with Sri Kaul and

> one

> more person who too went all out on similar lines.

>

> Sri Finn Windhall had written a wrong reply to him to which he did not

> respond. All this is available in the

> archives of Vedic Astrology and Jyotish Groups.

>

> The problem is the same thing is repeated again after a few weeks or

> months

> and we are all expected to respond.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

> On 7/7/06, Prafulla Gang <jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com> wrote:

>>

>> Dear members

>>

>> Pradeep shared the article with me in his mail. I request members to

>> read

>> the article and post their views. It is worth debating the merits of the

>> article. Since, I do not know much about astronomical basis of ayanamsa,

>> the

>> learned members may have sound reasonings against the arguments of the

>> article.

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and

>> another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>

>>>

>>> psd1955 <psd1955%40gmail.com>

>>> Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:02:28 +0530

>>> pradeep0890 <pradeep0890%40>

>>> A controversial article on vedic astrology

>>>

>>>

>>> Dear Sir,

>>>

>>> An interesting and maybe even a controversial article on vedic

>>> astrology

>>> by an eminent Jyotishi of India.

>>>

>>> In case you have already read this article kindly pardon me.

>>>

>>> http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm

>>>

>>> Regards,

>>> Pradeep

>>

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bharat ji

 

I am not aware of the tread. I am sorry for this. I will dig the archive and read. I did not mean to lead the forum for repeat discussions..I am just worried, if we are following wrong ayanamsa.

 

BTW, what is your conclusions on the correctness of the ayanamsa

 

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

 

 

>

> hinduastrology

> Fri, 7 Jul 2006 21:59:26 +0530

>

> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic astrology

>

> Namaskaar All

>

> Sri Sreenadh and I had a major discussion on the same with Sri Kaul and

> one

> more person who too went all out on similar lines.

>

> Sri Finn Windhall had written a wrong reply to him to which he did not

> respond. All this is available in the

> archives of Vedic Astrology and Jyotish Groups.

>

> The problem is the same thing is repeated again after a few weeks or

> months

> and we are all expected to respond.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

> On 7/7/06, Prafulla Gang <jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com> wrote:

>>

>> Dear members

>>

>> Pradeep shared the article with me in his mail. I request members to

>> read

>> the article and post their views. It is worth debating the merits of the

>> article. Since, I do not know much about astronomical basis of ayanamsa,

>> the

>> learned members may have sound reasonings against the arguments of the

>> article.

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and

>> another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>

>>>

>>> psd1955 <psd1955%40gmail.com>

>>> Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:02:28 +0530

>>> pradeep0890 <pradeep0890%40>

>>> A controversial article on vedic astrology

>>>

>>>

>>> Dear Sir,

>>>

>>> An interesting and maybe even a controversial article on vedic

>>> astrology

>>> by an eminent Jyotishi of India.

>>>

>>> In case you have already read this article kindly pardon me.

>>>

>>> http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm

>>>

>>> Regards,

>>> Pradeep

>>

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

DONT FORGET INTUTION

 

GOOD ASTROLOGERS ARE BLESED WITH INTUTION

 

 

 

On 7/7/06, Prafulla Gang <jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Dear Members

>

> My views - if the ayanamsa used by most vedic astrologers is not the

> correct one, then how come the predictions (made with the jyotish ) work for

> millions. There must be some rationale of the ayansamsa used in the vedic

> astrology

>

>

> regards / Prafulla Gang

>

> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and

> another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>

> >

> > jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com <jyotish%40inbox.com>

> > Fri, 7 Jul 2006 04:14:30 -0800

> > <%40>,

> vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>,

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>,

> <%40>

> > [vedic astrology] RE: A controversial article on vedic

> astrology

> >

> > Dear members

> >

> > Pradeep shared the article with me in his mail. I request members to

> read

> > the article and post their views. It is worth debating the merits of the

> > article. Since, I do not know much about astronomical basis of ayanamsa,

> > the learned members may have sound reasonings against the arguments of

> > the article.

> >

> > regards / Prafulla Gang

> >

> > Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and

> > another. Keep doing this until you break through.

> >

> >

> >>

> >> psd1955 <psd1955%40gmail.com>

> >> Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:02:28 +0530

> >> pradeep0890 <pradeep0890%40>

> >> A controversial article on vedic astrology

> >>

> >>

> >> Dear Sir,

> >>

> >> An interesting and maybe even a controversial article on vedic

> astrology

> >> by an eminent Jyotishi of India.

> >>

> >> In case you have already read this article kindly pardon me.

> >>

> >> http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> Pradeep

>

> ________

> FREE 2GB Online Storage - Store data online & access them anywhere you go!

> Visit http://www.inbox.com/storage to find out more!

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

http://www.occultwizard.com/

naastrology/

[Guest guest]

Dear Pandit Arjun ji

 

Many thanks. I will retrieve the article from file section.

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

 

 

>

> panditarjun2004

> Sat, 08 Jul 2006 01:54:38 -0000

>

> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic astrology...2

> cents

>

> dear prafulla ji

>

> specific answer to your specific query on which ayanamsha was used

> by parashara etc., was given by sreenadhji in one of his (or

> chandrahari's) articles or files on surya siddhanta in his group

> ancient indian astrology. hope he will be able to give you a

> satisfying answer if he is still active in this group or refer the

> files section in his group.

>

> with best wishes

> pandit arjun

>

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Shri Tatvam Asi ji

>>

>> Without Prejudice

>>

>> I am just trying to think from different perspective.

>>

>> Yes, intuition / sadhana / bhakti etc have greater role in

> prediction; and many people, I also met - who could tell without any

> astrology (chart in particular). We are not discussing them for the

> purpose of predictive astrology. and If astological subject has no

> relevance, then why this forum and discussions on technical issues?

>>

>> I am not saying that the theory of Mr kaul makes sense or not; and

> as Shri Pandit Arjun ji stated in his previous mails that - many of

> the statements of Shri Kaul is based upon facts. and if that is

> fact, then only one of it can be true.

>>

>> Yes, both can be different theories / systems; but there must have

> been rationale behind any of two (or for both) to be correct. I do

> not intend to dispute the possibility that the jyotish, what we all

> learnt is wrong. But possible, we are pursuing it with wrong

> ayanamsa (I do not have knowledge of astronomy..and am not competent

> to comment). and If so, then wrong chart is as bad (good) as no

> chart!!!!! and putting down the role of chart and all predictions

> through intuition means that - whatever astro factors, we are

> discussing is meaningless and the research thereupon too. All

> theories are bogus???? No, I personally feel, all can not be

> bogus..so there must be rationale behind the "vedic astrology read

> with its ayanamsa".

>>

>> Perhaps, people familiar with tropical astrology can pin point the

> predictive accuracy vis a vis ayanamsa. There are so many scholars

> on the astrology books, vedic literature..and this is indeed a

> probing question - which ayanamsa sage Parashar or other great

> rishis followed ?

>>

>> I am not comfortable with unnecessary criticism of vedic

> astrologers, their hypothesis etc ; so my mail must not be read as

> my acceptance of other statements. But certainly, it is indeed a big

> question that - do we pursue correct chart? and if yes - then we

> must be having same rationale of ayanamsa as sage Parashar had..and

> if so then what is it? Perhaps, we astrologer community do not have

> valid answers to them and we are siding with what we follow - with

> or without rationale?

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another,

> and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>

>>

>>>

>>> om_tatsat_om

>>> Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:18:49 -0700 (PDT)

>>>

>>> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic

> astrology...2

>>> cents

>>>

>>> Friends,

>>>

>>> If your Bhakti, Sadhana and Intution are weak , even if you

> master

>>> astrology, you will never be able to predict accurately.

>>> If some one is failing, the fault lies with some one's karma.

>>> Such people will find excuses to justify their failures.

>>> Tatvam-Asi

>>>

>>> Nachanhari ka aangan tedha

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology wrote:

>>> Namaskaar All

>>>

>>> Sri Sreenadh and I had a major discussion on the same with Sri

> Kaul and

>>> one

>>> more person who too went all out on similar lines.

>>>

>>> Sri Finn Windhall had written a wrong reply to him to which he

> did not

>>> respond. All this is available in the

>>> archives of Vedic Astrology and Jyotish Groups.

>>>

>>> The problem is the same thing is repeated again after a few

> weeks or

>>> months

>>> and we are all expected to respond.

>>>

>>> Thanks and Regards

>>> Bharat

>>>

>>> On 7/7/06, Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote:

>>>>

>>>> Dear members

>>>>

>>>> Pradeep shared the article with me in his mail. I request

> members to

>>>> read

>>>> the article and post their views. It is worth debating the

> merits of the

>>>> article. Since, I do not know much about astronomical basis of

> ayanamsa,

>>>> the

>>>> learned members may have sound reasonings against the arguments

> of the

>>>> article.

>>>>

>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>

>>>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and

> another, and

>>>> another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> psd1955 <psd1955%40gmail.com>

>>>>> Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:02:28 +0530

>>>>> pradeep0890 <pradeep0890%40>

>>>>> A controversial article on vedic astrology

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Dear Sir,

>>>>>

>>>>> An interesting and maybe even a controversial article on vedic

>>>>> astrology

>>>>> by an eminent Jyotishi of India.

>>>>>

>>>>> In case you have already read this article kindly pardon me.

>>>>>

>>>>> http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm

>>>>>

>>>>> Regards,

>>>>> Pradeep

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ranjan ji

 

There are many controversies in jyotish like in any subject. and it is real heart breaking to feel that, prediction does not warrant correct chart...and even if the chart is wrong, we can still proceed.

 

Most of ayanamsa definition and their reasonings (research papers etc), still does not answer the basic question - the ayanamsa (or planetary calculation basis) used by ancient sages including Parashar, Varah Mihir etc.

 

BTW, I did not add "2 cents" in the thread. I am rather devil's advocate - partly out of my inquisitiveness and partly out of ignorance. Ironically, it is difficult to believe / digest (if at all !!) that, all these years - we were reading / predicting from wrong chart.

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

 

 

>

> jyotish_vani (AT) hotmail (DOT) com

> Sat, 08 Jul 2006 02:33:08 -0000

>

> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic astrology...[2

> cents]

>

> The just do not call it two cents!

> Value of currency changes over a very short time ...

>

> So why not call it just "current value" or even 'Potential Value'?

> Particularly if you are the accountant/scientific type ;-)

>

> ANON

>

>

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and

> another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rishi ji

 

Yes, there are very little authenticity data available for the "source" of ancient books / texts / literature. Weak human mind, often finds reason to back or question its faith / knowledge (or his blind vision).

 

So what becomes the value of ayanamsa today? In other words - what is begining point of this ayanamsa correction (55 sec / p.a)

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

 

 

>

> rishi_2000in

> Sat, 08 Jul 2006 03:28:49 -0000

>

> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic astrology...[2

> cents]

>

> Prafullaji,

> So far we do not even know that the "words" attributed to Parasara or

> Varahmihira are actually theirs or have slipped in those treatises

> sometime over the past centuries.

> Interestingly, there is only one astrological book, I have come

> across so far ( my readings , I must admit very basic) which has been

> printed in the nineteenth century and the author admits that the

> words are his own.

> In this book the author gives a different method of calculating

> ayanamsa and takes it roughly as 55 seconds/year.

> regards

> rishi

>

>

>

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Ranjan ji

>>

>> There are many controversies in jyotish like in any subject. and it

> is real heart breaking to feel that, prediction does not warrant

> correct chart...and even if the chart is wrong, we can still proceed.

>>

>> Most of ayanamsa definition and their reasonings (research papers

> etc), still does not answer the basic question - the ayanamsa (or

> planetary calculation basis) used by ancient sages including

> Parashar, Varah Mihir etc.

>>

>> BTW, I did not add "2 cents" in the thread. I am rather devil's

> advocate - partly out of my inquisitiveness and partly out of

> ignorance. Ironically, it is difficult to believe / digest (if at

> all !!) that, all these years - we were reading / predicting from

> wrong chart.

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another,

> and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>

>>

>>>

>>> jyotish_vani

>>> Sat, 08 Jul 2006 02:33:08 -0000

>>>

>>> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic

> astrology...[2

>>> cents]

>>>

>>> The just do not call it two cents!

>>> Value of currency changes over a very short time ...

>>>

>>> So why not call it just "current value" or even 'Potential Value'?

>>> Particularly if you are the accountant/scientific type ;-)

>>>

>>> ANON

>>>

>>>

>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and

> another, and

>>> another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ranjan ji

 

Simple and difficult question!!! Perhaps sole criteria is maturity of soul.

 

Yes, we all human beings are acting till the curtain falls..and at some stage, we want to assess / reassess the parameters of such an act - without knowing much about it ( though we may not like to accept it).

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

 

 

>

> jyotish_vani (AT) hotmail (DOT) com

> Sat, 08 Jul 2006 03:32:30 -0000

>

> Re: A controversial article on vedic astrology...[2 cents]

>

> Dear Prafulla,

>

> Each of us (Devil's advocates -- welcome to that exclusive club!) are

> really not adding two cents but simply 'scent' or perfume of chandan

> to a nascent discipline known as jyotish!

>

> Without controversies, the alternative is 'perfection'! Last time I

> checked, we live in a reality that can go 'poof!' tomorrow for any of

> us individually or for the rest of the world or a region! THAT is the

> reality, whether we like it or not! The cause or catalyst that brings

> that about does not matter!

>

> So is there a role for Jyotish, still?

>

> When marooned on an island with no hope, it is a sin to give up for

> we were sent to this reality to live as long as we can, as best as we

> can and S/HE and not one of the actors/actresses can make that

> CURTAIN CALL!

>

> Untill the curtain falls, we must keep on acting and entertaining

> others -- some of the intrepid ones amongst us may want to change the

> SCRIPT but for the remaining 99.9% (anecdotal stats!) of us, JYOTISH

> is the SCRIPT!

>

> It is amazing how many are willing to show up for the audition

> without the SCRIPT or any clue about it!

>

> RR

>

>

>

>

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Ranjan ji

>>

>> There are many controversies in jyotish like in any subject. and it

> is real heart breaking to feel that, prediction does not warrant

> correct chart...and even if the chart is wrong, we can still proceed.

>>

>> Most of ayanamsa definition and their reasonings (research papers

> etc), still does not answer the basic question - the ayanamsa (or

> planetary calculation basis) used by ancient sages including

> Parashar, Varah Mihir etc.

>>

>> BTW, I did not add "2 cents" in the thread. I am rather devil's

> advocate - partly out of my inquisitiveness and partly out of

> ignorance. Ironically, it is difficult to believe / digest (if at

> all !!) that, all these years - we were reading / predicting from

> wrong chart.

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another,

> and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>

>>

>>>

>>> jyotish_vani

>>> Sat, 08 Jul 2006 02:33:08 -0000

>>>

>>> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic

> astrology...[2

>>> cents]

>>>

>>> The just do not call it two cents!

>>> Value of currency changes over a very short time ...

>>>

>>> So why not call it just "current value" or even 'Potential Value'?

>>> Particularly if you are the accountant/scientific type ;-)

>>>

>>> ANON

>>>

>>>

>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and

> another, and

>>> another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ranjan ji

 

We may choose to define our acts as - knowing, not knowing, pretending to know, fears, no fears, pretending to be afraid of..and so on..but do we write script? Yes, we can and we do..and our next script release - again depends upon the previous acts / scripts...

 

You have explored tropical astrology (not merely tropical ayanamsa)..and what do you suggest - if the chart is read per vedic astrology norms, but with tropical ayanamsa.

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

 

 

>

> jyotish_vani (AT) hotmail (DOT) com

> Sat, 08 Jul 2006 04:01:46 -0000

>

> Re: A controversial article on vedic astrology...[2 cents]

>

> Actor to another performer:

>

> As long as we let the 'curtain fall" and possibly the applause

> determine our self-worth, determine our *role* we remain mere puppets!

>

> Not in life, nor in what we consider is jyotish/astrology/divination

> do we have to be relegated to the same attitude!

>

> What is the point of learning to drive, if you are afraid of cars and

> reaching somewhere faster? You may as well walk -- or just use the

> movement provided by a rocking chair! You are moving but not going

> anywhere!!

>

> RR

>

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Ranjan ji

>>

>> Simple and difficult question!!! Perhaps sole criteria is maturity

> of soul.

>>

>> Yes, we all human beings are acting till the curtain falls..and at

> some stage, we want to assess / reassess the parameters of such an

> act - without knowing much about it ( though we may not like to

> accept it).

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another,

> and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>

>>

>>>

>>> jyotish_vani

>>> Sat, 08 Jul 2006 03:32:30 -0000

>>>

>>> Re: A controversial article on vedic astrology...[2

> cents]

>>>

>>> Dear Prafulla,

>>>

>>> Each of us (Devil's advocates -- welcome to that exclusive club!)

> are

>>> really not adding two cents but simply 'scent' or perfume of

> chandan

>>> to a nascent discipline known as jyotish!

>>>

>>> Without controversies, the alternative is 'perfection'! Last time

> I

>>> checked, we live in a reality that can go 'poof!' tomorrow for

> any of

>>> us individually or for the rest of the world or a region! THAT is

> the

>>> reality, whether we like it or not! The cause or catalyst that

> brings

>>> that about does not matter!

>>>

>>> So is there a role for Jyotish, still?

>>>

>>> When marooned on an island with no hope, it is a sin to give up

> for

>>> we were sent to this reality to live as long as we can, as best

> as we

>>> can and S/HE and not one of the actors/actresses can make that

>>> CURTAIN CALL!

>>>

>>> Untill the curtain falls, we must keep on acting and entertaining

>>> others -- some of the intrepid ones amongst us may want to change

> the

>>> SCRIPT but for the remaining 99.9% (anecdotal stats!) of us,

> JYOTISH

>>> is the SCRIPT!

>>>

>>> It is amazing how many are willing to show up for the audition

>>> without the SCRIPT or any clue about it!

>>>

>>> RR

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@>

>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> Dear Ranjan ji

>>>>

>>>> There are many controversies in jyotish like in any subject. and

> it

>>> is real heart breaking to feel that, prediction does not warrant

>>> correct chart...and even if the chart is wrong, we can still

> proceed.

>>>>

>>>> Most of ayanamsa definition and their reasonings (research papers

>>> etc), still does not answer the basic question - the ayanamsa (or

>>> planetary calculation basis) used by ancient sages including

>>> Parashar, Varah Mihir etc.

>>>>

>>>> BTW, I did not add "2 cents" in the thread. I am rather devil's

>>> advocate - partly out of my inquisitiveness and partly out of

>>> ignorance. Ironically, it is difficult to believe / digest (if at

>>> all !!) that, all these years - we were reading / predicting from

>>> wrong chart.

>>>>

>>>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>>>

>>>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another,

>>> and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> jyotish_vani@

>>>>> Sat, 08 Jul 2006 02:33:08 -0000

>>>>>

>>>>> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic

>>> astrology...[2

>>>>> cents]

>>>>>

>>>>> The just do not call it two cents!

>>>>> Value of currency changes over a very short time ...

>>>>>

>>>>> So why not call it just "current value" or even 'Potential

> Value'?

>>>>> Particularly if you are the accountant/scientific type ;-)

>>>>>

>>>>> ANON

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> , Prafulla Gang

> <jyotish@>

>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and

>>> another, and

>>>>> another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>>>>>

>>>>

>>

 

__________

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[Guest guest]

Prafulla Gang wrote:

 

> Perhaps, people familiar with tropical astrology can pin point the

> predictive accuracy vis a vis ayanamsa.

 

Sari:

 

Dear Prafulla and other respected members,

 

I read the article too and I got the impression that the main reason for the

writer to consider tropical zodiac more accurate were the good results he

had got with Western secondary progressions. But one need not to change

zodiac to use secondary progressions, so I cannot understand why the

workability of that method should be the reason to evaluate the tropical

zodiac as more correct as a whole.

 

One can think about the fact that Western astrologers used to use planetary

rulerships in the past centuries, but they are not used extensively any

more. Most Western astrologers give the rulerships of Aquarius, Pisces and

Scorpio to outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Wouldn't that be a major

change in techiques, unless the planetary rulerships as a whole would have

become only a curiosity because of precession?

 

There's a lot of strictly zodiac based techniques that Indian sidereal

astrologers use, but Western tropical astrologers use only little, or don't

use at all, for example the previously mentioned house rulerships, but also

divisional charts, whole sign houses and aspects (because whole sign houses

is the only house system that gives partly different results with different

zodiacs), dasha systems etc. The most used and workable techniques of

Western astrology (transits, progressions, outer planets etc.) are not

dependent on the zodiac.

 

What comes to transits and solar return charts, many Western astrologers use

precessed sidereal returns and then turn them tropical, because the

precession corrected ones have proved to be more accurate.

 

Best wishes, Sari

[Guest guest]

Dear Sari

 

Many thanks for detailed note. Can not we cast the chart per tropical zodiac (without ayanamsa correction) and read per vedic astrology practices.

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

 

 

>

> gerdapp (AT) welho (DOT) com

> Sat, 8 Jul 2006 11:43:49 +0300

>

> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic astrology...2

> cents

>

> Prafulla Gang wrote:

>

>> Perhaps, people familiar with tropical astrology can pin point the

>> predictive accuracy vis a vis ayanamsa.

>

> Sari:

>

> Dear Prafulla and other respected members,

>

> I read the article too and I got the impression that the main reason for

> the

> writer to consider tropical zodiac more accurate were the good results he

> had got with Western secondary progressions. But one need not to change

> zodiac to use secondary progressions, so I cannot understand why the

> workability of that method should be the reason to evaluate the tropical

> zodiac as more correct as a whole.

>

> One can think about the fact that Western astrologers used to use

> planetary

> rulerships in the past centuries, but they are not used extensively any

> more. Most Western astrologers give the rulerships of Aquarius, Pisces

> and

> Scorpio to outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Wouldn't that be a

> major

> change in techiques, unless the planetary rulerships as a whole would

> have

> become only a curiosity because of precession?

>

> There's a lot of strictly zodiac based techniques that Indian sidereal

> astrologers use, but Western tropical astrologers use only little, or

> don't

> use at all, for example the previously mentioned house rulerships, but

> also

> divisional charts, whole sign houses and aspects (because whole sign

> houses

> is the only house system that gives partly different results with

> different

> zodiacs), dasha systems etc. The most used and workable techniques of

> Western astrology (transits, progressions, outer planets etc.) are not

> dependent on the zodiac.

>

> What comes to transits and solar return charts, many Western astrologers

> use

> precessed sidereal returns and then turn them tropical, because the

> precession corrected ones have proved to be more accurate.

>

> Best wishes, Sari

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Kumar ji

 

I am thankful to you for your concerns. I am not confused; rather questioning myself - if there is something seriously wrong. Until, that one is answered to the core, will continue to pursue it in existing format. There is always a rationale for / against any technique.

 

Yes, I am certainly inclined to read charts (casted per tropical zodiac - or say without ayanamsa correction), with jyotish rules. But, until there is something meaningful coming out - will certainly prefer current ayanamsa practice over anything.

 

 

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Let not the sands of time get in your lunch.

 

 

>

> gbp_kumar

> Sat, 8 Jul 2006 08:12:30 -0700 (PDT)

>

> Re: A controversial article on vedic astrology...4 cents

> 8/7

>

>

> Dear Sari.

> u have done the best reply to the debate, i tried to add some support

> to vedic astrology with some concrete evidence, but for Prafulla no one

> else even said a word, rather went in tangents. Though we are whistling

> against the wind and sure KK i snot going to read or respond, but we must

> not allow self doubt in our system to catch up.

>

> I am sure readers like prafulla, Gaurav gosh are already confused, and

> hope not seriously.r

>

> THE BASIC FAT THAT IS ESCAPING EVERYONE IS why will Parashara or anyone

> talk of Ayanamsa? it is part of their system we are taught astrology

> through ephemeris and GMT as s basis so we have got used to first doing a

> Sayana chart and then using whatever ayanamsa we need.

> there is even scientific evidence for the correction of 55 secs odd

> every yr and the zodiac is moving backwards which is what ayanamsa says

> there was a debate when the 13th planet was discovered in a talk show

> in BBC by astronomers they did say that people who thing who are born is

> Leo [lions will find it shocking to find they are Crabs [born in cancer]

> so this is what ayanamsa is doing the correction backwards. y few sec

> every yr.

>

> and to doubt parashara is too much we have not read the works in

> original script from a guru ,reading printed versions will give us the

> same depth as K K kaul has, we get to feel the body the soul is not

> there. this must come from a Guru.

>

> Gaurav's comment on epics is strange

> the past Yuga's lives were longer inkali Yuga it is 120 yrs who is

> living 120no one in earlier Yugas see Brihat Parashara Hora shastra it is

> thousands of years and K kauls ridicule of Rama may be still living if we

> accept he ruled for 11,000 yrs and dasaratha was childless for 60,000

> years etc, they lived longer.

> if we accept MOSES Lived SOME 666 yrs why cant we accept the earlier

> Yugas.

>

>

> and Vedya Vyas is the one who wrote Mahabharatha and Srimad Bhagavatham

> is the one there r other vyasas too, vyasa measn to compile veda vyasa is

> the one who compiled Vedas and toehr scriptures, they lvied in Yugas of

> long live, did pranayama and had a dharmic life lived longer than people

> of their times, we can't judge from our life, in todays world, moral

> stabdards

>

> simple to quote Einstien on Mahatma Gandhi's death

> IN THE COMMIGN DECADES no one wll believe such an man existed and

> achieved [freedom without bloodshed and violence.] will you doubt this,

> no later centuries sure ur own grand children will disbelive it.

>

>

>

>

>

> Sari Metsovuori <gerdapp (AT) welho (DOT) com> wrote:

> Prafulla Gang wrote:

>

>> Perhaps, people familiar with tropical astrology can pin point the

>> predictive accuracy vis a vis ayanamsa.

>

> Sari:

>

> Dear Prafulla and other respected members,

>

> I read the article too and I got the impression that the main reason for

> the

> writer to consider tropical zodiac more accurate were the good results he

> had got with Western secondary progressions. But one need not to change

> zodiac to use secondary progressions, so I cannot understand why the

> workability of that method should be the reason to evaluate the tropical

> zodiac as more correct as a whole.

>

> One can think about the fact that Western astrologers used to use

> planetary

> rulerships in the past centuries, but they are not used extensively any

> more. Most Western astrologers give the rulerships of Aquarius, Pisces

> and

> Scorpio to outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Wouldn't that be a

> major

> change in techiques, unless the planetary rulerships as a whole would

> have

> become only a curiosity because of precession?

>

> There's a lot of strictly zodiac based techniques that Indian sidereal

> astrologers use, but Western tropical astrologers use only little, or

> don't

> use at all, for example the previously mentioned house rulerships, but

> also

> divisional charts, whole sign houses and aspects (because whole sign

> houses

> is the only house system that gives partly different results with

> different

> zodiacs), dasha systems etc. The most used and workable techniques of

> Western astrology (transits, progressions, outer planets etc.) are not

> dependent on the zodiac.

>

> What comes to transits and solar return charts, many Western astrologers

> use

> precessed sidereal returns and then turn them tropical, because the

> precession corrected ones have proved to be more accurate.

>

> Best wishes, Sari

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Prashantkumar G B

>

> -*- The services of this astrologer are free on group

> but

> off the group consultations are chargeable by chat, mail or phone.

> Please fix times for this in advance -*-

> 09840051861

>

>

>

>

>

> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great

> rates starting at 1¢/min.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

i too believe that gifted Astrologers have "Intuition".Tarunji ,may I say,

is perfectly right.

Regards,

Jagannathan.

 

 

On 7/8/06, Tarun Chopra <occultwizard.tarun > wrote:

>

> DONT FORGET INTUTION

>

> GOOD ASTROLOGERS ARE BLESED WITH INTUTION

>

> On 7/7/06, Prafulla Gang <jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com <jyotish%40inbox.com>> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Members

> >

> > My views - if the ayanamsa used by most vedic astrologers is not the

> > correct one, then how come the predictions (made with the jyotish ) work

> for

> > millions. There must be some rationale of the ayansamsa used in the

> vedic

> > astrology

> >

> >

> > regards / Prafulla Gang

> >

> > Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and

> > another. Keep doing this until you break through.

> >

> > >

> > > jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com <jyotish%40inbox.com> <jyotish%40inbox.com>

> > > Fri, 7 Jul 2006 04:14:30 -0800

> > > <%40>

> <%40>,

> > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40><vedic astrology%40>,

> > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40><sohamsa%40gro

> ups.com>,

> > <%40><%40>

> > > [vedic astrology] RE: A controversial article on vedic

> > astrology

> > >

> > > Dear members

> > >

> > > Pradeep shared the article with me in his mail. I request members to

> > read

> > > the article and post their views. It is worth debating the merits of

> the

> > > article. Since, I do not know much about astronomical basis of

> ayanamsa,

> > > the learned members may have sound reasonings against the arguments of

> > > the article.

> > >

> > > regards / Prafulla Gang

> > >

> > > Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and

> > > another. Keep doing this until you break through.

> > >

> > >

> > >>

> > >> psd1955 <psd1955%40gmail.com> <psd1955%40gmail.com>

> > >> Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:02:28 +0530

> > >> pradeep0890 <pradeep0890%40> <pradeep0890%

> 40>

> > >> A controversial article on vedic astrology

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Dear Sir,

> > >>

> > >> An interesting and maybe even a controversial article on vedic

> > astrology

> > >> by an eminent Jyotishi of India.

> > >>

> > >> In case you have already read this article kindly pardon me.

> > >>

> > >> http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm

> > >>

> > >> Regards,

> > >> Pradeep

> >

> > ________

> > FREE 2GB Online Storage - Store data online & access them anywhere you

> go!

> > Visit http://www.inbox.com/storage to find out more!

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> http://www.occultwizard.com/

> naastrology/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ranjan ji

 

Very true. I have been reading Dane Rudhyar and few more on western astrology. Surprisingly, MC Jain have used progression well into his system (and retrogression too). Rudhyar too, has demonstrated the use of rahu / ketu in timing of events.

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Let not the sands of time get in your lunch.

 

 

>

> jyotish_vani (AT) hotmail (DOT) com

> Sun, 09 Jul 2006 14:51:31 -0000

>

> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic astrology...2

> cents

>

> Prafulla,

>

> I am only a fascinated observer of western astrology and nothing

> more. So take my post with a pinch of salt. I am more fascinated by

> the openness and documentation and organization of the technical

> material, databases etc that have almost mostly been created by

> western astrologers. As far as the system is concerned, when it

> started the two zodiacs were close and so rulerships etc worked

> better. over the year the practitioners have moved away from the

> rulerships as Sari pointed out. Another interesting thing is the

> heavy use of inter-planetary and planet to cusp arcs also known as

> aspects. Obviously these would be not sensitive to or influenced by

> zodiacs, since it is using the relative distance between the bodies

> and points. Also the Ebertin system which deals with midpoints again

> is looking at relative placements and is not influenced by the

> zodiac. If I were trying to looking into the 'marriage' of the two

> systems, I would bring in mid-point analysis and western aspects into

> the vedic charts, because they are system or zodiac-independent!

>

> The two zodiacs, sidereal (visible, fixed) and tropical (experiential

> as in seasons, heat and cold, earth-based, movable) tell me that

> there is perhaps some different symbolic representations that are

> inherent in the two zodiacs. I do not believe that the belief that

> tropical gives better representation of human psyche and sidereal

> gives better event timing. This is simply not true. Both systems have

> been demonstrated to perform both functions. The human psyche thing

> comes because for a long significant time, western astrologers tended

> to come from backgrounds of psychology and education and therefore

> brought their backgrounds to evolve and develop that aspect of

> astrology. With rich contributions which are worth reading. Rudhyar,

> Noel Tyl, Alan Oken, Munkasey, and many more have written well and

> are worth reading...

>

> Just a thought,

>

> RR

>

>

> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> wrote:

>>

>> Dear Sari

>>

>> Many thanks for detailed note. Can not we cast the chart per

> tropical zodiac (without ayanamsa correction) and read per vedic

> astrology practices.

>>

>> regards / Prafulla Gang

>>

>> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another,

> and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>>

>>

>>>

>>> gerdapp

>>> Sat, 8 Jul 2006 11:43:49 +0300

>>>

>>> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic

> astrology...2

>>> cents

>>>

>>> Prafulla Gang wrote:

>>>

>>>> Perhaps, people familiar with tropical astrology can pin point

> the

>>>> predictive accuracy vis a vis ayanamsa.

>>>

>>> Sari:

>>>

>>> Dear Prafulla and other respected members,

>>>

>>> I read the article too and I got the impression that the main

> reason for

>>> the

>>> writer to consider tropical zodiac more accurate were the good

> results he

>>> had got with Western secondary progressions. But one need not to

> change

>>> zodiac to use secondary progressions, so I cannot understand why

> the

>>> workability of that method should be the reason to evaluate the

> tropical

>>> zodiac as more correct as a whole.

>>>

>>> One can think about the fact that Western astrologers used to use

>>> planetary

>>> rulerships in the past centuries, but they are not used

> extensively any

>>> more. Most Western astrologers give the rulerships of Aquarius,

> Pisces

>>> and

>>> Scorpio to outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Wouldn't that

> be a

>>> major

>>> change in techiques, unless the planetary rulerships as a whole

> would

>>> have

>>> become only a curiosity because of precession?

>>>

>>> There's a lot of strictly zodiac based techniques that Indian

> sidereal

>>> astrologers use, but Western tropical astrologers use only

> little, or

>>> don't

>>> use at all, for example the previously mentioned house

> rulerships, but

>>> also

>>> divisional charts, whole sign houses and aspects (because whole

> sign

>>> houses

>>> is the only house system that gives partly different results with

>>> different

>>> zodiacs), dasha systems etc. The most used and workable

> techniques of

>>> Western astrology (transits, progressions, outer planets etc.)

> are not

>>> dependent on the zodiac.

>>>

>>> What comes to transits and solar return charts, many Western

> astrologers

>>> use

>>> precessed sidereal returns and then turn them tropical, because

> the

>>> precession corrected ones have proved to be more accurate.

>>>

>>> Best wishes, Sari

>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr Kumar ji

 

I understand. Yes, Bhrihu Nadi has demonstrated the use of progression over natal positions. Even Sahams (primarily greek astrology - use of LOTS) works well, without the use of lagna.But, when we fix the lagna, planetary positions etc ayanamsa becomes the focal point.

 

I tried to play with sayana calculations few (6/7) years back (read with vedic astrology rules) ..but really could not progress well in event reconciliation. All of sudden, when this topic surfaced - it reminded me of my earlier attempts.

 

As Ranjan ji pointed out, western astrology has sound literature in understanding the transformation related issues for a native (I did not venture on prediction of events through progression, except reading MC Jain etc). Vedic astrology has emphasised more on spiritual roles, remedial measures and predictive tools using dasha etc.

 

BTW, retrogression and challenges therewith are beautifully documented as well. I feel, MC Jain and many others have combined both very well in their jyotish pursuits.

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Let not the sands of time get in your lunch.

 

 

>

> gbp_kumar

> Sun, 9 Jul 2006 08:43:31 -0700 (PDT)

>

> Re: RE:using tecnniques

>

> Prafulla,

>

> Brigu Nadi published by Ranjan also has some clues on using rahu, ketu

> for prediction that is add the longitudes of Rahu and Guru if the mid

> point falls in a Auspicious house when Guru aspects or transits the

> point u can expect favourable results, like mariage, children, assets,

> rise in prof/pay/income etc.

> and in Dusthanas it is just the opposite result.

> similarlty it is said if Sani+Kuja are aspecting or conjoined, the

> person has another name or nick name/title,

> a bone injury too.

>

> Guru having no planet to its 11th will be eldest in the family and so

> on. so we can travel on a lot of unheard or taught tips from even our

> own past masters. where Ayanamsa ned not be a question at al.

>

>

>

>

> Prafulla Gang <jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com> wrote:

> Dear Ranjan ji

>

> Very true. I have been reading Dane Rudhyar and few more on western

> astrology. Surprisingly, MC Jain have used progression well into his

> system (and retrogression too). Rudhyar too, has demonstrated the use of

> rahu / ketu in timing of events.

>

> regards / Prafulla Gang

>

> Let not the sands of time get in your lunch.

>

> >

> > jyotish_vani (AT) hotmail (DOT) com

> > Sun, 09 Jul 2006 14:51:31 -0000

> >

> > Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic astrology...2

> > cents

> >

> > Prafulla,

> >

> > I am only a fascinated observer of western astrology and nothing

> > more. So take my post with a pinch of salt. I am more fascinated by

> > the openness and documentation and organization of the technical

> > material, databases etc that have almost mostly been created by

> > western astrologers. As far as the system is concerned, when it

> > started the two zodiacs were close and so rulerships etc worked

> > better. over the year the practitioners have moved away from the

> > rulerships as Sari pointed out. Another interesting thing is the

> > heavy use of inter-planetary and planet to cusp arcs also known as

> > aspects. Obviously these would be not sensitive to or influenced by

> > zodiacs, since it is using the relative distance between the bodies

> > and points. Also the Ebertin system which deals with midpoints again

> > is looking at relative placements and is not influenced by the

> > zodiac. If I were trying to looking into the 'marriage' of the two

> > systems, I would bring in mid-point analysis and western aspects into

> > the vedic charts, because they are system or zodiac-independent!

> >

> > The two zodiacs, sidereal (visible, fixed) and tropical (experiential

> > as in seasons, heat and cold, earth-based, movable) tell me that

> > there is perhaps some different symbolic representations that are

> > inherent in the two zodiacs. I do not believe that the belief that

> > tropical gives better representation of human psyche and sidereal

> > gives better event timing. This is simply not true. Both systems have

> > been demonstrated to perform both functions. The human psyche thing

> > comes because for a long significant time, western astrologers tended

> > to come from backgrounds of psychology and education and therefore

> > brought their backgrounds to evolve and develop that aspect of

> > astrology. With rich contributions which are worth reading. Rudhyar,

> > Noel Tyl, Alan Oken, Munkasey, and many more have written well and

> > are worth reading...

> >

> > Just a thought,

> >

> > RR

> >

> >

> > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish

> > wrote:

> >>

> >> Dear Sari

> >>

> >> Many thanks for detailed note. Can not we cast the chart per

> > tropical zodiac (without ayanamsa correction) and read per vedic

> > astrology practices.

> >>

> >> regards / Prafulla Gang

> >>

> >> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another,

> > and another. Keep doing this until you break through.

> >>

> >>

> >>>

> >>> gerdapp

> >>> Sat, 8 Jul 2006 11:43:49 +0300

> >>>

> >>> Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic

> > astrology...2

> >>> cents

> >>>

> >>> Prafulla Gang wrote:

> >>>

> >>>> Perhaps, people familiar with tropical astrology can pin point

> > the

> >>>> predictive accuracy vis a vis ayanamsa.

> >>>

> >>> Sari:

> >>>

> >>> Dear Prafulla and other respected members,

> >>>

> >>> I read the article too and I got the impression that the main

> > reason for

> >>> the

> >>> writer to consider tropical zodiac more accurate were the good

> > results he

> >>> had got with Western secondary progressions. But one need not to

> > change

> >>> zodiac to use secondary progressions, so I cannot understand why

> > the

> >>> workability of that method should be the reason to evaluate the

> > tropical

> >>> zodiac as more correct as a whole.

> >>>

> >>> One can think about the fact that Western astrologers used to use

> >>> planetary

> >>> rulerships in the past centuries, but they are not used

> > extensively any

> >>> more. Most Western astrologers give the rulerships of Aquarius,

> > Pisces

> >>> and

> >>> Scorpio to outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Wouldn't that

> > be a

> >>> major

> >>> change in techiques, unless the planetary rulerships as a whole

> > would

> >>> have

> >>> become only a curiosity because of precession?

> >>>

> >>> There's a lot of strictly zodiac based techniques that Indian

> > sidereal

> >>> astrologers use, but Western tropical astrologers use only

> > little, or

> >>> don't

> >>> use at all, for example the previously mentioned house

> > rulerships, but

> >>> also

> >>> divisional charts, whole sign houses and aspects (because whole

> > sign

> >>> houses

> >>> is the only house system that gives partly different results with

> >>> different

> >>> zodiacs), dasha systems etc. The most used and workable

> > techniques of

> >>> Western astrology (transits, progressions, outer planets etc.)

> > are not

> >>> dependent on the zodiac.

> >>>

> >>> What comes to transits and solar return charts, many Western

> > astrologers

> >>> use

> >>> precessed sidereal returns and then turn them tropical, because

> > the

> >>> precession corrected ones have proved to be more accurate.

> >>>

> >>> Best wishes, Sari

> >>

>

>

>

>

>

> Prashantkumar G B

>

> -*- The services of this astrologer are free on group

> but

> off the group consultations are chargeable by chat, mail or phone.

> Please fix times for this in advance -*-

> 09840051861

>

>

>

>

>

> Sneak preview the all-new .com. It's not radically different. Just

> radically better.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Prafullaji,

 

in fact Rohiniji explained it all in his take on western astrology. My

backround is in western tropical astrology, which I studied since 1983 until

I switched to the sidereal zodiac a year ago and started study hindu

astrology. So I know quite a lot of the western system, but I'm a complete

novice in jyotish.

 

Yes, we can cast the chart with tropical zodiac and read per vedic

techniques. In a way, those astrologers in the west who are interested in

about 2000 years old Hellenistic astrology, are kind of doing that, because

the Hellenistic system has a lot in common with hindu astrology. Their

research is very interesting, but I don't know if there has been any

revolutionary results in actual reading of a chart.

 

My personal experience is that the traditional planetary rulerships don't

generally work on the tropical zodiac, or they don't work as convincingly as

on the sidereal zodiac. The tropical zodiac works in other ways, because

western astrology is adjusted with it over the centuries. For example

tropical Pisces is generally seen as a passive, self-undoing, a bit gloomy

sign, not very Jupiterian. Tropical Libra is seen as a kind, accommodating

and quite a superficial sign, not very masculine.

 

If I would take some techniques from western astrology, I would take

midpoints, secondary progressions and Solar arc directions. They work, and

they are not dependent on zodiac. But a skilled astrologer can see things in

a chart regardless of the techiques he is using, that's one of the mysteries

of astrology.

 

Best wishes, Sari

 

 

-

"Prafulla Gang" <jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com>

<>

Saturday, July 08, 2006 3:54 PM

Re: RE: A controversial article on vedic astrology...2 cents

 

 

> Dear Sari

>

> Many thanks for detailed note. Can not we cast the chart per tropical

> zodiac (without ayanamsa correction) and read per vedic astrology

> practices.

>

> regards / Prafulla Gang

>

> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and

> another. Keep doing this until you break through.

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Sharma ji

 

Many thanks for sharing opinion of competent person (though Lahiri is not the most authentic reflection !!! -for example - I use modified Lahiri - less 52 seconds).

 

regards / Prafulla Gang

 

Let not the sands of time get in your lunch.

 

 

>

> polite_astro

> Mon, 10 Jul 2006 03:39:32 -0700 (PDT)

>

> Re: Sh.Priyavrat Sharma/Martand Panchang- A controversial

> article on vedic astrology -

>

> .HARE RAM.

> Dear friends,

> From last few days an important discussion among learned astrologers is

> running on regarding an artical written by Mr.Kaul about the flimsy of

> our age old vedic astrology, aynamansa and other topics.Truly i do not

> find myself so competent enterning for further discussion among highly

> learned

> astrologers but i know well known a person Professor Priyavrat Sharma

> [MA,Siddhanta Jyotishacharya (Banaras),Sahityacharya and Gold medal

> winner] to whom Mr.Kaul has written his artical too and his brother

> Dr.Shaktidhar Sharma [M sc,Ph D (Nuclear Physics - USA) FRAS (London)

> MA,Siddhanta Jyotishacharya (Banaras),Three Gold medal winner, the

> editors of Martand Panchang that is the best in North India and one of

> the best in India.As TATA is the name of trust among Indian

> Industries.The Martand Panchang has the same trust/name in North

> India.Therefore we follow their verdict blindly either the matter of

> Lahiri aynamansa or other topics.According to them Lahiri Panchang is the

> best and there is no alternative of that so far.

>

> Regards

> Shashie Shekhar

> Mobile-09818310075

> Delhi

>

> Prafulla Gang <jyotish (AT) inbox (DOT) com> wrote:

> Dear members

>

> Pradeep shared the article with me in his mail. I request members to read

> the article and post their views. It is worth debating the merits of the

> article. Since, I do not know much about astronomical basis of ayanamsa,

> the learned members may have sound reasonings against the arguments of

> the article.

>

> regards / Prafulla Gang

>

> Make a decision! If that doesn't work, make another, and another, and

> another. Keep doing this until you break through.

>

>

>>

>> psd1955

>> Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:02:28 +0530

>> pradeep0890

>> A controversial article on vedic astrology

>>

>>

>> Dear Sir,

>>

>> An interesting and maybe even a controversial article on vedic astrology

>> by an eminent Jyotishi of India.

>>

>> In case you have already read this article kindly pardon me.

>>

>> http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm

>>

>> Regards,

>> Pradeep

>

>

>

>

>

> SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND RELISH THE

> TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS.

>

>

>