what r demigods? is lord Shiva a demi God?

[Yogkriya]

Sadasiva

 

At the end of Pralaya, the Supreme Lord thinks of re-creation of the world. He is then known by the name Sadasiva. He is the root-cause of creation. From Sadasiva creation begins. In Manusmriti He is called Svayambhu. Sadasiva is unmanifested, He destroys the Tamas caused by Pralaya and shines as the self-resplendent light bringing forth the five great elements, etc., into being.

The Siva Purana says that Siva is beyond both Prakriti and Purusha. Siva is Mahesvara. He is the witness, well-wisher and nourisher of all beings. The Gita says: ‘Upadrashtanumanta cha bharta bhokta mahesvarah’.

Mahesvara conducts the work of creation according to His will and pleasure. The Sruti says, ‘Mayam tu prakritim viddhi mayinam tu mahesvaram’. Know Prakriti to be Maya and Mahesvara to be the wielder of Maya or Prakriti. The Shakti of Siva works in two different ways. Mula Prakriti and Daivi Prakriti. Mula Prakriti is Apara Prakriti from which the five elements and other visible objects and the Antahkarana are evolved. Para Prakriti is Chaitanya Sakti which converts the Apara Prakriti and gives name and form to it. Apara Prakriti is Avidya and Para Prakriti is Vidya. The controller and dispenser of these two Prakritis is Lord Siva.

Siva is distinct from Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra.

Lord Siva is the Lord of innumerable crores of Brahmandas or worlds. Isvara united with

Maya gives rise to Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra out of Rajas, Sattva and Tamo Gunas respectively,

under the command of Lord Siva. Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra are the trinities of the world.

There is no difference among the trinities, Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra. By the command of Mahesvara these three do the creative, preservative and destructive duties of the world. The work of all the three deities is done conjointly. They all have one view and one definite purpose in creating,

preserving and destroying the visible universe of names and forms. He who regards the three deities as distinct and different, Siva Purana says, is undoubtedly a devil or evil spirit.

The Lord who is beyond the three Gunas, Mahesvara, has four aspects: Brahma, Kala,

Rudra and Vishnu. Siva is the support for all the four. He is the substratum for Sakti also. Siva is

distinct from the Rudra included in the trinities. Rudra is really one though according to the

different functions He is considered to have eleven different forms.

The first face of Siva does Krida or play, the second does penance, the third destroys or dissolves the world, the fourth protects the people and the fifth, being knowledge, fully covers the entire universe by its power. He is Isana the creator and promoter of all beings, from within.

The first form of Siva is the enjoyer of Prakriti as Kshetrajna Purusha. The second is Tatpurusha resting in Sattva-guna, rooted in Bhogya-Prakriti, the Prakriti-enjoyed. The third is Ghora rooted in the eightfold Buddhi like Dharma, etc. The fourth is Vamadeva rooted in Ahankara and the fifth is Sadyojata, the presiding deity of the mind. The eight forms of Siva are Sarva, Bhava, Rudra, Ugra, Bhima, Pasupati, Isana and Mahadeva, rooted respectively in earth, water, fire, air, ether, Kshetrajna, sun and moon.

[Yogkriya]

What proof do you need to believe that Agastya and Vasishtha didn't worship Shiva??? Read the lives of these great MahaRishis. Go and read their work and treatsies. Go and find out about their sadhnas. What do you know about Agastya and Vasishtha??? What sadhna was the accomplishment of Sage Agastya? What initiation did Rama accept from Agstya? Why? Answer this.

 

If there is something you can't comprehend or accept due to personal belief or problem, you have a ready made answer which is as wicked and as deluding - "to delude the wicked". If A.B. De worshipped Krishna then Krishna must be worth worshipping to?? Or no?

 

If greatest of Munis - Vasishtha and Agastya and Vishwamitra worshipped Shiva, then there was a solid reason behind it?

Rama himself took refuge under their holy feet and accepted them as His Gurus!! This is a historical FACT! What's there to prove??? You can refuse the whole history altogether.

And you chant Hare Rama Hare Rama, you bow down to him and offer your obeisance to him and consider him as God!! So maybe he did something right? eh?

 

 

 

Why did Rama and Krishna and Vamdev, (Vasishtha, Agastya, Upmanyu..) worship Shiva???********

 

There is no evidence for any of this, and if at all it's true, it's for the purpose of asuramohana, or to delude the wicked. Guess that explains it.

 

As for Vashishta, Agastya worshipping shiva, does that make Shiva superior? If scores of people worship Bush, does that make him superior to Shiva?

 

The rest of your post is plain nonsense, it's all your opinion with no basis in the veda.

[Yogkriya]

You will find in the Svetasvatara Upanishad, chapter III: “There is one Rudra only who rules all the worlds by His powers. There is no one besides Him who can make Him the second. He is present inside the hearts of all beings. He creates all the worlds and maintains and finally withdraws them into Himself”.

Rudra represents here Para Brahman or the Supreme Self, the Infinite or the Absolute. Rudra, after having created all objects, draws together or takes them all back into Himself at the end of time, i.e., during cosmic Pralaya or dissolution.

Rudra is the destructive aspect of Siva. There are eleven Rudras in the cosmic hierarchy.

Esoterically, the Pranas (or the ten senses) and the mind represent the eleven Rudras. Sri Hanuman is a manifestation or aspect of Rudra only.

In Siva-Purana, Rudra is another name for Siva. Rudra is one who destroys the sins and removes the miseries of His devotees and confers on them wisdom and bliss. Rudra is the Antaryamin or indweller of all beings. He witnesses silently the actions and thoughts of men and dispenses the fruits of their actions.

“That one God, having His eyes, His face, His arms and feet in every place, when producing heaven and earth, forges them together with His arms and His wings”.

May Rudra, the creator and supporter of the gods, the great seer, the Lord of all, who created at first Hiranyagarbha, endow us with good thought (pure intellect).

“Rudra, with Thy form which is auspicious, which is not dreadful, and which manifests what is holy, with that all-blessed form, appear to us, O Dweller among the mountains”.

[Yogkriya]

Rudra Upanishad

 

Now, at this moment, I take refuge in that Pure State of the Supreme Absolute which can be known by the Vidya, called the Rudra Hridaya Upanishad.

After prostrating before the celebrated form of Sri Mahadeva-Rudra in his heart, adoring the sacred Bhasma and Rudraksha and mentally reciting the great Mahavakya-Mantra, Tarasara, Sri Suka asked his father Sri Vyasa Maharshi, thus:

Who is the real God of gods? In whom are all these existences established? By worshipping

whom, can I please the Devas in whole?

 

Hearing these words, Sri Veda Vyasa replied thus:

Rudra is the embodiment of all Devas. All devas are merely different manifestations of Sri Rudra Himself. On the right side of Rudra, there is the sun, then the four-headed Brahma, and then three Agnis (fires). On the left side, there exist Sri Umadevi, and also Vishnu and Soma (moon).

Uma Herself is the form of Vishnu. Vishnu Himself is the form of the moon.

 

Therefore, those who worship Lord Vishnu, worship Siva Himself. And those who worship Siva, worship Lord Vishnu in reality. Those who envy and hate Sri Rudra, are actually hating Sri Vishnu. Those who decry Lord Siva, decry Vishnu Himself.

 

Rudra is the generator of the seed. Vishnu is the embryo of the seed. Siva Himself is Brahma and Brahma Himself is Agni. Rudra is full of Brahma and Vishnu. The whole world is full of Agni and Soma. The masculine gender is Lord Siva. The feminine gender is Sri Bhavani Devi. All the

mobile and immobile creation of this universe, is filled up with Uma and Rudra. The Vyakta is Sri Uma, and the Avyakta is Lord Siva. The combination of Uma and Sankara is Vishnu.

Hence everybody should prostrate to Sri Maha Vishnu with great devotion. He is the Atman. He is the Paramatman. He is the Antaratman. Brahma is the Antaratman. Siva is the Paramatman. Vishnu is the Eternal Atman of all this universe. This whole creation of Svarga, Martya and Patala Lokas is a big tree. Vishnu is the top portion (branches) of this tree. Brahma is the

stem. The root is Lord Siva.

The effect is Vishnu. The action is Brahma. The cause is Siva. For the benefit of the worlds.

Rudra has taken these three forms.

 

Rudra is Dharma. (how can Dharma be sinful??)

 

Vishnu is the world. Brahma is Knowledge. Therefore, do Kirtan of His

name, ‘Rudra’, ‘Rudra’. By singing like this, the hallowed name of this great Lord, all your sins will be destroyed.

Rudra is man. Uma is woman. Prostrations to Him and Her.

Rudra is Brahma. Uma is Sarasvati. Prostrations to Him and Her.

Rudra is Vishnu. Uma is Lakshmi. Prostrations to Him and Her.

Rudra is Sun. Uma is shadow. Prostrations to Him and Her.

Rudra is moon. Uma is star. Prostrations to Him and Her.

Rudra is day. Uma is night. Prostrations to Him and Her.

Rudra is Yajna. Uma is Vedi. Prostrations to Him and Her.

Rudra is Agni, Uma is Svaha. Prostrations to Him and Her.

Rudra is Veda. Uma is Sastra. Prostrations to Him and Her.

Rudra is tree. Uma is creeper. Prostrations to Him and Her.

Rudra is scent. Uma is flower. Prostrations to Him and Her.

Rudra is meaning. Uma is word. Prostrations to Him and Her.

Rudra is Linga. Uma is Pitha. Prostrations to Him and Her.

The devotee should worship Sri Rudra and Uma with these Mantras referred to above. O my son, Suka! With these hymns, you should meditate on the Eternal Para-Brahman, which is beyond the reach of the senses, which is pure Existence, knowledge and Bliss and which cannot be

understood either by the speech or by the mind. After knowing this, there is nothing more to be known, because everything is the form of That, and there is nothing separate from That.

There are two Vidyas to be known. They are Para and Apara. Apara Vidya is the embodiment of the four Vedas and their six Angas. They do not deal with the Nature of the Atman.

But the Para Vidya is called the Moksha-Sastra. It deals with that supreme philosophy of the Absolute Truth, ununderstandable, impersonal, Nirguna, Nirakara, without ears, without eyes, without hands, without feet, eternal, omnipresent, imperishable, and knowable by the intelligent

daring sages.

[Yogkriya]

SECTION XVIII of Anushasana Parva.

 

Krishna, addressed Yudhisthira, saying,--O son, do thou recite this hymn consisting of the thousand and eight names of Mahadeva, and let Maheswara be gratified with thee. In former days, O son, I was engaged in the practice of severe austerities on the breast of the mountains of Meru from desire of obtaining a son. It is this very hymn that was recited by me. As the reward of this, I obtained the fruition of all my wishes, O son of Pandu. Thou wilt also, by reciting this same hymn, obtain from Sarva the fruition of all thy wishes.

 

--After this, Kapila, the Rishi who promulgated the doctrines that go by the name of Sankhya, and who is honoured by the gods themselves, said,--I adore Bhava with great devotion for many lives together. The illustrious Deity at last became gratified with me and gave me knowledge that is capable of aiding the acquirer in getting over rebirth.--After this, the Rishi named Charusirsha, that dear friend of Sakra and known otherwise under the name of Alamvana's son and who is filled with compassion, said,--I, in former days, repaired to the mountains of Gokarna and sat myself to practise severe penances for a hundred years. As the reward of those penances, I obtained from Sarva, O son of king Pandu, a hundred sons, all of whom were born without the intervention of woman, of well-restrained soul, conversant with righteousness, possessed of great splendour, free from disease and sorrow, and endued with lives extending over a hundred thousand years.

Then the illustrious Valmiki, addressing Yudhishthira, said,--Once upon a time, in course of a dialectical disputation, certain ascetics that were possessors of the homa fire denounced me as one guilty of Brahmanicide. As soon as they had denounced me as such, the sin of Brahmanicide, O Bharata, possessed me. I then, for cleansing myself, sought the protection of the sinless Isana who is irresistible in energy. I become cleansed of all my sins. That dispeller of all sorrows, viz., the destroyer of the triple city of the Asuras, said unto me,--Thy fame shall be great in the world.

Then Jamadagni's son, that foremost of all righteous persons, shining like the Sun with blazing splendour in the midst of that conclave of Rishis, said unto the son of Kunti these words;--I was afflicted with the sin, O eldest son of Pandu, of Brahmanicide for having slain my brothers who were all learned Brahmanas. For purifying myself, I sought the protection, O king, of Mahadeva. I hymned the praises of the great Deity by reciting his names. At this, Bhava became gratified with me and gave me a battle-axe and many other celestial weapons. And he said unto me,--Thou shalt be freed from sin and thou shalt be invincible in battle; Death himself shall not succeed in overcoming thee for thou shalt be freed from disease.--Even thus did the illustrious and crested Deity of auspicious form said unto me. Through the grace of that Deity of supreme intelligence I obtained all that He had said.

Then Viswamitra said,--I was formerly a Kshatriya. I paid my adorations to Bhava with the desire of becoming a Brahmana Through the grace of that great Deity I succeeded in obtaining the high status of a Brahmana that is so difficult to obtain.--Then the Rishi Asita-Devala, addressing the royal son of Pandu, said,--In former days, O son of Kunti, through the curse of Sakra, all my merit due to the acts of righteousness I had performed, was destroyed. The puissant Mahadeva it was who kindly gave me back that merit together with great fame and a long life.--

The illustrious Rishi Gritsamada, the dear friend of Sakra, who resembled the celestial preceptor Vrihaspati himself in splendour, addressing Yudhishthira of Ajamidha's race said,--The inconceivable Sakra had, in days of yore, performed a sacrifice extending over a thousand years. While that sacrifice was going on, I was engaged by Sakra in reciting the Samans. Varishtha, the son of that Manu who sprung from the eyes of Brahma, came to that sacrifice and addressing me, said.--O foremost of regenerate persons, the Rathantara is not being recited properly by thee. O best of Brahmanas, cease to earn demerit by reading so faultily, and with the aid of thy understanding do thou read the Samans correctly. O thou of wicked understanding, why dost thou perpetrate such sin that is destructive of sacrifice.--Having said these words, the Rishi Varishtha, who was very wrathful, gave way to that passion and addressing me once more, said,--Be thou an animal divested of intelligence, subject to grief, ever filled with fear, and a denizen of trackless forests destitute of both wind and water and abandoned by other animals. Do thou thus pass ten thousand years with ten and eight hundred years in addition.....

 

After this, Vasudeva, that foremost of all intelligent men, once more said,--Mahadeva of golden eyes was gratified by me with my penances. Gratified with me, O Yudhishthira, the illustrious Deity said unto me,--Thou shalt, O Krishna, through my grace, become dearer to all persons than wealth which is coveted by all. Thou shalt be invincible in battle. Thy energy shall be equal to that of Fire. Thousands of other boons Mahadeva gave unto me on that occasion. In a former incarnation I adored Mahadeva on the Manimantha mountain for millions of years. Gratified with me, the illustrious Deity said unto me these words:--Blessed be thou, do thou solicit boons as thou wishest. Bowing unto him with a bend of my head, I said these words,--If the puissant Mahadeva has been gratified with me, then let my devotion to him be unchanged, O Isana! Even this is the boon that I solicit.--The great God said unto me,--Be it so--and disappeared there and then.'

[Yogkriya]

I know your ready answer and comment to the previous post from Anushasana Parva of Mahabharata.

"It is concocted and does not agree with the Vedas .. blah blah"

And if this does not, then What Vasudeva Krishna is saying here also does not. And then at this point the argument losses all its meaning.

Om Namah Shivaya.

[atanu]

 

Hari Aum,

 

Aum Nama Shivaya,

 

If you have read the Shatapata Brahmana verses properly, you will not get confused like this.

 

 

Show us the verses and we will see the context. I wonder how a child says that I am born of sin.

 

Then if "Eko Rudro Dvittiya na tasthu" refers to Narayana alone then the sins of so-called Rudra also belongs to Narayana. You understand. I have doubt that you understand implications of what you write, since your intellect is surely clogged on account of hatred. You also do not see Rig Veda verses that Brahma is not the father but Rudra is the father. Brahma is the name the creative force in pure consciouness called Rudra.

 

 

RV10.061.05 (Rudra), the benefactor of man, whose eager, virile energy was developed, drew it back when disseminated (for the generation of offfspring); again the irresistible (Rudra) concentrates (the energy) which was communicated to his maiden daughter.

RV 10.061.06 When the deed was done in mid-heaven in the proximity of the father working his will, and the daughter coming together, they let the seed fall slightly; it was poured upon the high place of sacrifice.

RV 10.061.07 When the father united with the daughter, then associating with the earth, he sprinkled it with the effusion; then the thoughtful gods begot Brahma; they fabricated the lord of the hearth (of sacrifice); the defender of sacred rites

Brahma is a mental concept of Devas and so is Brahmanspati. There is none other than one EKO RUDRA.

 

 

 

prakR^itiH sA parA mahyaM rodasI yogadhAriNI

R^itA satyAmarAjayyA lokAnAmAtmasa~nj~nitA

tasmAtsarvAH pravartante sarga pralaya vikriyAH

Everything; creation, destruction and all other changes; arises out of the Prakriti (Lakshmi), Who is the wife of Narayana. [Among all dependent beings], she is the most knowledgeable, effulgent, powerful and victorious. She does all this with my grace and she is known as "AtmA" of the entire universe [after Paramatma] (as she appoints and manages Brahma, Rudra and other deities as per the command of the Lord).

You have inserted “ ---as she appoints and manages Brahma, Rudra and other deities as per the command of the Lord”, on your own. Rodasi is consort of Rudra who accompanies Maruts always. All your posts are examples of bigotry and good that these are on the net.

ahamAtmA hi lokAnAM vishvAnAM pANDunandana

tasmAdAtmAnamevAgre rudraM sampUjayAmyaham

yadyahaM nArchayeyaM vai IshAnaM varadaM shivam

AtmAnaM nArchayetkashchiditi me bhAvitaM manaH

 

O Son of Pandu, I am, indeed, the Atma, the indweller of this universe and the worlds. Therefore, I worship myself first, even when I worship Rudra. If I did not worship Rudra, the bestower of boons, in such a way (i.e., worshipping the indwelling Lord first), some would not worship me, the

indwelling Lord, at all - this is my opinion.

na hi viShNuH pranamati kasmai chidvibudhAya tu

R^ita AtmAnameveti tato rudraM bhajAmyaham

Indeed Vishnu does not bow to any one and [even when He bows to Himself], for what sake, but for the sake of showing the path to the wise. Therefore, it is the truth that I worship myself even when I worship Rudra.

You should open up and contemplate on the above verse. Everyone worships the indwelling Lord alone, including ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. If Rudra was someone who is different from the indwelling Lord why should <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> worship Rudra at all? Your intellect is clogged due to your hatred. The day you understand the oneness of Vishnu and Rudra your life will be filled with bliss. Till then continue with your childish misrepresentations, which are on net for all to see.

The day the oneness of Rudra (who is neither a non-being nor a being) and Vishnu (being and non-being) is understood then you will know yourself. And you will also say: I worship Rudra since I worship myself.

Since:

Yajur Veda:

From Yajur Veda

Namo hridayyaya cha niveshpya ya cha

Salutations to Him who is in hridayyaya and in the grace.

<?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:p></u1:p>

<u1:p></u1:p>Namo vah kirikebhyo devanam hrudayou bhyo

Salutations to you who showers grace and who dwell in the hearts of the Gods.

Svet. Up,

4.18 yadaa.atamastaanna divaa na raatriH

na sannachaasachchhiva eva kevalaH .

tadaxara.n tat.h saviturvareNyaM

praGYaa cha tasmaat.h prasR^itaa puraaNii .. 18

4.18. When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Siva (the blessed) alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient praGYaa proceeded thence.

6.7 tamiishvaraaNaaM paramaM maheshvara.n

ta.n devataanaaM parama.n cha daivatam.h .

patiM patiinaaM paramaM parastaad.h\-

vidaama devaM bhuvaneshamiiDyam.h .. 7..

6.7 WE WILL KNOW THIS MIGHTIEST ONE WHO IS FAR ABOVE ALL THE MIGHTY – THIS SUMMIT OF THE GODS AND THEIR GODHEAD, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, WHO TOWERETH HIGH ABOVE ALL SUMMIT AND GREATNESSES. LET US LEARN OF GOD FOR HE IS THIS UNIVERSES' MASTER AND ALL SHALL ADORE HIM.

 

 

 

Show us one verse from Samhitas that Param Parastad is used for any other deity.

[atanu]

 

<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

Svet. Up,

4.18 yadaa.atamastaanna divaa na raatriH

na sannachaasachchhiva eva kevalaH .

tadaxara.n tat.h saviturvareNyaM

praGYaa cha tasmaat.h prasR^itaa puraaNii .. 18

4.18. When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Siva (the blessed) alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient praGYaa proceeded thence.

6.7 tamiishvaraaNaaM paramaM maheshvara.n

ta.n devataanaaM parama.n cha daivatam.h .

patiM patiinaaM paramaM parastaad.h\-

vidaama devaM bhuvaneshamiiDyam.h .. 7..

6.7 WE WILL KNOW THIS MIGHTIEST ONE WHO IS FAR ABOVE ALL THE MIGHTY – THIS SUMMIT OF THE GODS AND THEIR GODHEAD, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, WHO TOWERETH HIGH ABOVE ALL SUMMIT AND GREATNESSES. LET US LEARN OF GOD FOR HE IS THIS UNIVERSES' MASTER AND ALL SHALL ADORE HIM.

 

 

Show us one verse from Samhitas that Param Parastad is used for any other deity.

 

 

 

 

From Yajur Veda

 

 

 

 

Namo hridayyaya cha niveshpya ya cha

 

 

Salutations to Him who is in hridayyaya and in the grace.

 

 

 

 

<?xml:namespace prefix = u1 /><u1:p></u1:p>

 

 

 

 

<u1:p></u1:p>Namo vah kirikebhyo devanam hrudayou bhyo

Salutations to you who showers grace and who dwell in the hearts of the Gods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Namah

 

[tackleberry]

 

Everyone worships the indwelling Lord alone, including ffice:smarttags"

 

This truly is a revelation to me.

[mawab]

we must be careful not to offend the Supreme God Shiva lest he send a power surge through the outlet and fry one's computer

[Guest guest]

 

Now all matters is my personal sadhna.

There has to be a conclusion for me. I can't move with Dualism. One has to rise above dualism and see the universe as His manifested shakti. He is in everything and is the cause of everything. I call him Shiva. You can call him Vishnu. That is not the point. The point is again, where do I stand and what is my status. How can I rise above this. And that is what matters my friend. I have no powers to decide on the positions of Gods. I still have to reach them to see it.

Mantra heenam, kriya heenam, bhakti heenam sureshwara, yat pujitam maya deve, paripurnam tadastu mev! Om Namah Shivaya.

 

SO SO TRUE PRABHUJI !! HARI BOL!!! THAT MAKES COMPLETE SENSE!!

OM NAMAH SHIVAYA!

[Guest guest]

 

Now all matters is my personal sadhna.

There has to be a conclusion for me. I can't move with Dualism. One has to rise above dualism and see the universe as His manifested shakti. He is in everything and is the cause of everything. I call him Shiva. You can call him Vishnu. That is not the point. The point is again, where do I stand and what is my status. How can I rise above this. And that is what matters my friend. I have no powers to decide on the positions of Gods. I still have to reach them to see it.

Mantra heenam, kriya heenam, bhakti heenam sureshwara, yat pujitam maya deve, paripurnam tadastu mev! Om Namah Shivaya.

 

SO SO TRUE YOGI PRABHUJI !! HARI BOL!!! THAT MAKES COMPLETE SENSE!!

OM NAMAH SHIVAYA!

[atanu]

 

This truly is a revelation to me.

 

 

Let there be unity all around

<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by sumedh

 

I never said that consciousness is imagination; the reference was to the interpretation that Narayana and Rudra are not Beings but refer to "infinite consciousness"; that the "Puranic concepts" of Narayana/Rudra refer to "shivoadvaitam" etc.

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That is precisely your problem dear Sumedh. You are a lover of God, no doubt, but you are an immature one. You have taken the Puranic concepts as the truth. The concepts are like addrresses to the home but not the home. The truth is beyond description and Paratpara.

 

 

When you say among devatas Vishnu is highest and Agni is lowest, you automatically demean both Vishnu and Agni -- though ignorantly and definitely with love for Vishnu. Vishnu -- Vasudeva is all. Agni -- is all. All these are infinite expressions of ONE SELF. Vishnu is infinite Self -- how can you compare that to another. And how can you even try to demean Agni by comparison. He is the Purohit. He takes all our prayers and oblations to whichever deity we wish to reach.

 

 

Anyway Sumedh. I have no time for these discussions and I am withdrawing on this Vijaya Dashami day -- with two verses from Yajur Veda as my intangible gift to you and other readers of this forum. Hope these two verses will bring illumination someday.

 

 

Yajur Veda iv. 4. 8.

(Thou “I” art) all overcoming through Agni; self-ruling through the sun; lord of strength through might; creator with the bull; bountiful through the sacrifice; heavenly through the sacrificial fee; slayer of enemies through rage; supporter of the body through kindliness; wealth through food; through the earth he hath won; (thou art) eater of food with verses; increased by the Vasat cry; protector of the body through the Saman; full of light with the Viraj; drinker of Soma through the holy power; with cows he supporteth the sacrifice; with lordly power men; with horse and car bearer of the bolt; lord with the seasons; enclosing with the year; unassailable through penance; the sun with bodies.”

YV iv. 4. 9.

(Thou art) Prajapati in mind, when come to the Soma; the creator in the consecration; Savitr in the bearing; Pusan in the cow for the purchase of the Soma; Varuna when bound (in the cloth); Asura in the being bought;Mitra when purchased; Çipivista when put in place;delighter of men when being drawn forward; the overlord on arrival;Prajapati being led on; Agni at the Agnidh’s altar; Brhaspati on being led from the Agnidh’s altar; Indra at the oblation-holder; Aditi when put in place; Visnu when being taken down; Atharvan when made wet; Yama when pressed out; drinker of unpurified (Soma) when being cleansed; Vayu when purifying; Mitra as mixed with milk; the Manthin when mixed with groats; that of the All-gods when taken out; Rudra when offered; Vayu when covered up; the gazer on men when revealed;the food when it comes; the famed of the fathers;life when taken; the river when going to the final bath; the ocean when gone; the water when dipped;the heaven when arrived at completion.

 

End of citation.

 

The one who says "I" in everyone -- is he with a form or is he formless? Is He manifest or is he unmanifest? That "I", when manifest in full is all pervading Vishnu. That same "I" when offered worship is Rudra.

 

 

Please read these verses. One day the realisation will dawn that the being who is aware as the real "I" in you is the SELF. He is the seeing/seer/seen. These divisions as so called tattwas is for understanding and realising the ONE indescribale truth alone.

 

 

 

Om Namoh Vasudevayya

Om Durge Namah

Om Namah Shivayya