Where Are Bush's Critics Now?

[Guest guest]

 

care to post some relevant quotations from these people?

 

 

 

if anybody is wearing a hood here it is people like you: nameles guests posting inflamatory personal attacks from the safety of their anonimity. I use my initiated name and have to live with real consequences of what I write here.

 

almost the entire world condemns the barbaric atrocities committed by Israel over the years in ME. there are countless UN resolutions proving that. are they all Clansmen like I'm supposed to be?

 

you can be a racist bigot wearing a yarmulke. you think they only come in white hoods? do you want me to post some examples here?

 

 

Wow I must really be touching a nerve as I expose your half-truths you post out of hatered. How is the truth any more inflamatory than your half truths ? Funny you cite the UN as an honest source, should I begin to discredit them as well, the rapes, the inaction in the face of African genocide, the corruption of the oil for food etc. There are atrocities everywhere by people of many faiths and nations if you really want to go that rout feel free, your half truths so far have been really shallow though.

 

As far as posting as a guest if that is your only recourse to challange my facts you strike out there too. I could call myself by any name I want and that would do nothing for or against the facts I state, they are strong enough to stand on their own.

[Guest guest]

LOL, it'll be interesting to see what 'guest' comes up with, now that you've provided proof of the law that 'guest' claimed you were simply making up!

 

 

Israeli Parliament Adopts Racist Marriage Laws

By Frances M. Beal

The current Israeli regime has provided further ammunition to those fighting for Palestinian sovereignty who have long promoted the slogan that “Zionism is racism” and a “form of apartheid.”

This ammo entails a newly passed law affecting Palestinian marriages that mirrors those of our own southern racists, which provides measures to strip Arab Israelis of their citizenship if they marry Palestinians. For African Americans who were subjected to a hundred years of anti-miscegenation laws promulgated by the white supremacists that ruled in Dixie, it is an all too familiar story. [Webster’s dictionary defines miscegenation as “a mixture of races; especially marriage or cohabitation between a white person and a member of another race.”]

The story first appeared in an August 3, 2003 report by the Jerusalem-based writer, Justin Huggler. It was printed in the Independent, a well-known British newspaper. This racist marriage law was passed in the Knesset (the Israeli Parliament) and goes into effect immediately.

Components of the law also include the following:

• Palestinians will be excluded from obtaining citizenship or residency. Anyone else who marries an Israeli will be entitled to Israeli citizenship.

• Israeli Arabs who marry Palestinians from the West Bank or Gaza Strip will either have to move to the occupied territories, or live apart from their husband or wife.

• Children of these unions will also be affected: from the age of 12 they will be denied citizenship or residency and forced to move out of Israel. The statute is a direct reversal of one of the provisions of the ten-year old Oslo Agreement, which allowed family reunions for Arabs inside Israel. In fact, many marriages of Palestinian Arabs with Israeli Arabs did occur. In practice, the Palestinian spouse was automatically eligible for Israeli citizenship and it was understood that Israeli citizenship would be denied in only very extreme cases.

[Guest guest]

With all due respect, using your legal name doesn't mean a thing either. There are many with that name.

 

 

Well that name doesn't mean anything to the outside world - not a thing - why not do like me - use your birth name - then I would agree that you would have to live with the so-called 'real consequences' of writing here - at this rate - you're as anonymous as the unknown guests...you cannot be tracked with that name.

[Kulapavana]

 

There are atrocities everywhere by people of many faiths and nations if you really want to go that rout feel free...

 

yes, indeed... and they ALL should be condemned. Israeli and American atrocities are just as repugnant as atrocities committed by BinLaden and other Arab terrorists. this was my point all along. will you condemn Israeli atrocities? Whose atrocities do I refuse to condemn?

 

it is people like you who try to whitewash demonic activities just because they are done by people you happen to support, I guess because they are from your ethnic group? If so, such behavior is based on primitive bodily concept of life. My tribe can do no wrong... you twist logic and language to make it palatable to your mind, but KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE IS WRONG, regardles of who does it.

[Kulapavana]

 

Actually Egypt, Saudi Arabia , and Jorden agree with Israel in this fight as well. They have stated that the response, while heavy handed, is within Israels rights as they were attacked.

Whats that Oh No ! There are Arabs supporting Israel, is the world ending ?

 

another half truth at best.

 

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Source: http://www.nytimes.com</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top>MacFARQUHAR</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<!-- Tide of Arab Opinion Turns to Support for Hezbollah -->DAMASCUS, Syria, July 27 — At the onset of the Lebanese crisis, Arab governments, starting with Saudi Arabia, slammed Hezbollah for recklessly provoking a war, providing what the United States and Israel took as a wink and a nod to continue the fight.

 

Now, with hundreds of Lebanese dead and Hezbollah holding out against the vaunted Israeli military for more than two weeks, the tide of public opinion across the Arab world is surging behind the organization, transforming the Shiite group’s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, into a folk hero and forcing a change in official statements.

 

The Saudi royal family and King Abdullah II of Jordan, who were initially more worried about the rising power of Shiite Iran, Hezbollah’s main sponsor, are scrambling to distance themselves from Washington.

 

An outpouring of newspaper columns, cartoons, blogs and public poetry readings have showered praise on Hezbollah while attacking the United States and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice for trumpeting American plans for a “new Middle East” that they say has led only to violence and repression.

 

Even Al Qaeda, run by violent Sunni Muslim extremists normally hostile to all Shiites, has gotten into the act, with its deputy leader, Ayman al-Zawahri, releasing a taped message saying that through its fighting in Iraq, his organization was also trying to liberate Palestine.

 

Mouin Rabbani, a senior Middle East analyst in Amman, Jordan, with the International Crisis Group, said, “The Arab-Israeli conflict remains the most potent issue in this part of the world.”

 

Distinctive changes in tone are audible throughout the Sunni world. This week, President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt emphasized his attempts to arrange a cease-fire to protect all sects in Lebanon, while the Jordanian king announced that his country was dispatching medical teams “for the victims of Israeli aggression.” Both countries have peace treaties with Israel.

 

The Saudi royal court has issued a dire warning that its 2002 peace plan — offering Israel full recognition by all Arab states in exchange for returning to the borders that predated the 1967 Arab-Israeli war — could well perish.

 

“If the peace option is rejected due to the Israeli arrogance,” it said, “then only the war option remains, and no one knows the repercussions befalling the region, including wars and conflict that will spare no one, including those whose military power is now tempting them to play with fire.”

 

The Saudis were putting the West on notice that they would not exert pressure on anyone in the Arab world until Washington did something to halt the destruction of Lebanon, Saudi commentators said.

[Guest guest]

 

LOL, it'll be interesting to see what 'guest' comes up with, now that you've provided proof of the law that 'guest' claimed you were simply making up!

 

There is nothing in there that says that the citizen will lose there citizenship if married. It is an extreme law I agree, but as a recognised state Israel has a right to its own immigration and marriage laws. I also like how you cut the quote short you can`t see anything if you only see half the story, Isn`t that what I have been telling you from the start ?

 

"Even though the legislation was adopted as an alleged “security measure” for one year,"

 

"The new law posits that citizenship will be granted only in special cases in which the Minister of the Interior is convinced that the “Palestinian applicant identifies with the state and that he or his kin contributed to the security of the state and had cooperated in the past with Israeli authorities.”

 

 

If you follow the thread

The post was only half the article about a one year law that doesn`t exist anymore. See points above.

[Guest guest]

 

yes, indeed... and they ALL should be condemned. Israeli and American atrocities are just as repugnant as atrocities committed by BinLaden and other Arab terrorists. this was my point all along. will you condemn Israeli atrocities? Whose atrocities do I refuse to condemn?

 

it is people like you who try to whitewash demonic activities just because they are done by people you happen to support, I guess because they are from your ethnic group? If so, such behavior is based on primitive bodily concept of life. My tribe can do no wrong... you twist logic and language to make it palatable to your mind, but KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE IS WRONG, regardles of who does it.

 

I don`t whitewash, as I have stated time and time again I call it like I see it. I could list several Jewish extremist groups and their actions but that is not the point of this discussion. I respond to the half truths that have been posted that is all. I agree that all atrocities are the same that does however mean ALL. The entire focus of this post has been blame the Jew so I have simply tried to widen the view and in response all there has been was more Jew hate.

I am not Jewish nor was I born Jewish I was born and raised Catholic and never even met a person that was Jewish,that I knew of,until my first trip to the Middle East.

 

So if you want to discuss Evil, we can discuss Evil. However if people want to continue blaming one side vs. the other I will be here to expose the WHOLE truth.

[Kulapavana]

 

So if you want to discuss Evil, we can discuss Evil.

 

this thread was not started to discuss all things Evil. I just posted an article about a current event.

 

 

are you the same guest who claims the Israeli law as posted above is no longer in place? if so, I'm not sure that is true. as far as I know it is still very much in effect as the original "deadline" was extended indefinitely.

 

 

the death toll in Lebanon and Gaza from Israeli attacks surpassed 800, mostly innocent people, about a third of them children. Israelis lost about 50 people, about half of them soldiers. these people died as a direct result of Israeli actions. Israelis by their own admission planned this campaign for years. the capture of Israeli soldier was just an excuse. they capture and kill Hezbollah people ALL THE TIME. That is Evil at work. On BOTH sides.

 

Dont be a part of Evil in any way. by supporting Evil the blood of all these people is on your hands too. It is called karma. In Vedic times king was sharing the good and bad karma of his subjects. In our times people share the good and bad karma of the leaders they elect. Bush has on his hands the blood of well over 100,000 innocent people in Iraq. Make sure YOUR hands are clean. At least reject all such demonic leaders. Hare Krsna!

[Guest guest]

 

these people died as a direct result of Israeli actions. Israelis by their own admission planned this campaign for years.

 

Dont be a part of Evil in any way. by supporting Evil the blood of all these people is on your hands too. It is called karma.

 

 

I think you should take your own advice, you continue to take a blame the Jews attitude which makes your support clear and makes you a part in the evil. The people that have died are a direct result of Israels actions yes, but those actions are in defense. Israel would pull back if the rockets stopped period. Yes they planned to rid the world of the terrorists that make up Hezbolla, because the world failed to act as promised. The UN, Lebanon , and the world promised Hezbolla would be disarmed when Israel left Lebanon, suprise ! that never happened.

[Kulapavana]

 

The people that have died are a direct result of Israels actions yes, but those actions are in defense. .

 

defense? you kill the attacker, his family, his neighbours, destroy the city where they live... all in the name of defense? if tried to do a stunt like that where you live you would have been tried and convicted of mass murder and more. do apply some logic, not sentiments to these issues.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

defense? you kill the attacker, his family, his neighbours, destroy the city where they live... all in the name of defense? if tried to do a stunt like that where you live you would have been tried and convicted of mass murder and more. do apply some logic, not sentiments to these issues.

 

Well we know what your logic leads to...

[Guest guest]

 

defense? you kill the attacker, his family, his neighbours, destroy the city where they live... all in the name of defense? if tried to do a stunt like that where you live you would have been tried and convicted of mass murder and more. do apply some logic, not sentiments to these issues.

 

OK so using your logic would I sit in my house and cry ? Since you have all the answers what should Israel do ? Should they live their lives in bomb shelters as the rockets fly ? Should they just write off the 2 living soldiers and forget the others that were butchered that day ? They are doing what they have to do period.

Hezbolla chose to hide in civilian areas and use women and children as shields. Hezbolla are the cowards that continue to target civilians, the ONLY reason Israel hasn`t suffered MAJOR deaths is because Hezbolla lacks the weapons to inflict that sort of loss, nothing else.

[Kulapavana]

 

OK so using your logic would I sit in my house and cry ? Since you have all the answers what should Israel do ? Should they live their lives in bomb shelters as the rockets fly ?

 

the solution is in a political process, not in military actions. that is true for BOTH sides!

 

Israel is not SOLVING the problem of terrorism by bombing Lebanon and killing hundreds of innocent people. they are CREATING terrorism in that way. you judge by the results.

 

but the moderate people in Israel face opposition from the Jewish religious fanatics. the same people who murdered Itzhak Rabin who tried to use the political process to solve Israeli problems with Palestinians. so the terrorists are on BOTH sides, holding BOTH sides hostage. THAT is the problem Israel fails to acknowledge.

[jijaji]

 

he he... you jump to a lot of conclusions here and you obviously know nothing about me

 

do you call the state of Israel and most of it's representatives and inhabitants racist and isolationist too? look at their policies and statements: nothing but racism and isolationism to me. an Israeli loses their I. citizenship when he or she marries a Palestinian. I think they were similarly racist in the Third Reich. Even the old apartheid state of RSA would not go that far.

 

so... are you ready to apply the same criteria to the people of Israel that you are applying to Buchanan? if not, define your understanding of the terms racist and isolationis to us before we proceed any further.

 

be careful Kulapavana...

 

[jijaji]

 

defense? you kill the attacker, his family, his neighbours, destroy the city where they live... all in the name of defense? if tried to do a stunt like that where you live you would have been tried and convicted of mass murder and more. do apply some logic, not sentiments to these issues.

 

Hey Kulapavana don't ya know bulldozing homes with people still inside them is defense against terrorist?

 

How can anyone fall for this LIE that Israel and the US is doing in the name of Freedom...

 

I can't believe there are devotees who support this shit...!

 

[Kulapavana]

The Moral Culpability for Qana

 

by Patrick J. Buchanan

"Everyone in southern Lebanon is a terrorist and is connected to Hezbollah," roared Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon on July 27.

 

"Every village from which a Katyusha is fired must be destroyed," bellowed an Israeli general in a quote bannered by the nation's largest newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth.

 

The Israeli paper then summarized what the justice minister and general were saying: "In other words, a village from which rockets are fired at Israel will simply be destroyed by fire." That was Thursday.

 

Sunday, in Qana, 57 of Haim Ramon's "terrorists," 37 of them children, were massacred with precision-guided bombs. Apparently, Katyushas had been fired from Qana, near the destroyed building.

 

"One who goes to sleep with rockets shouldn't be surprised if he doesn't wake up in the morning," said Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, Dan Gillerman.

 

Today, we hear unctuous statements about how Israel takes pains to avoid civilian casualties, drops leaflets to warn civilians to flee target areas, and conforms to all the rules of civilized warfare.

 

But Israel's words and deeds contradict her propaganda. As the war began, Ehud Olmert accused Lebanon, which had condemned Hezbollah for the killing and capture of the Israeli soldiers, of an "act of war." Army Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz publicly threatened "to turn back the clock in Lebanon by 20 years."

 

Gillerman, at a pro-Israel rally in New York, thundered, "[T]o those countries who claim that we are using disproportionate force, I have only this to say: You're damn right we are."

 

"His comments drew wild applause," said the Jerusalem Post.

 

Though Israel is dissembling now, Gillerman spoke the truth then. No sooner had Hezbollah taken the two Israeli soldiers hostage than Israel unleashed an air war – on Lebanon. The Beirut airport was bombed, its fuel storage tanks set ablaze. The coast was blockaded. Power plants, gas stations, lighthouses, bridges, roads, trucks, and buses were all hit with air strikes.

 

Within 48 hours, it was apparent Israel was exploiting Hezbollah's attack to execute a preconceived military plan to destroy Lebanon – i.e., the collective punishment of a people and nation for the crimes of a renegade militia they could not control. It was the moral equivalent of a municipal police going berserk, shooting, killing, and ravaging an African-American community, because Black Panthers had ambushed and killed cops.

 

If Israel is not in violation of the principle of proportionality, by which Christians are to judge the conduct of a just war, what can that term mean? There are 600 civilian dead in Lebanon, 19 in Israel, a ratio of 30-1, though Hezbollah is firing unguided rockets, while Israel is using precision-guided munitions.

 

Thousands of Lebanese civilians are injured. Perhaps 800,000 are homeless.

 

Yet, whatever one thinks of the morality of what Israel is doing, the stupidity is paralyzing. Instead of maintaining the moral and political high ground it had – when even Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan were condemning Hezbollah, and privately hoping Israel would inflict a humiliating defeat on Nasrallah – Israel launched an air war on an innocent people. Now, 87 percent of Lebanese back Hezbollah, and the entire Arab and Islamic world, Shia and Sunni alike, is rallying behind Nasrallah.

 

And how does one defend the behavior of the United States?

 

When Gillerman was exulting in the disproportionality of Israel's attack on Lebanon, U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton was smiling smugly beside him. When the UN Security Council tabled a resolution condemning Hezbollah's igniting of the war and Katyusha attacks, but also the excesses of Israel's reprisals, U.S. Ambassador John Bolton vetoed it. When a few congressmen sought to moderate a pro-Israeli resolution by adding words urging "all sides to protect innocent life and infrastructure," GOP leader John Boehner ordered the words taken down.

 

Why? Because, says Zbigniew Brzezinski, AIPAC, the Israeli lobby, had prepared the resolution and wanted it passed the way they wrote it. Our Knesset complied. It sailed through the House 410-8.

 

For two weeks, Bush seemed unable to find a word of criticism for what our friends in Israel were doing to our friends in Lebanon. He publicly sent more bombs to Israel. He and Condi emphasized that America did not want a cease-fire – yet.

 

And because America provides Israel with the bombs it uses on Lebanon, and we refused to restrain the Israelis, and we opposed every effort for a cease-fire before Sunday, America shares full moral and political responsibility for the massacre at Qana.

 

Rubbing our noses in our own cravenness, "Bibi" Netanyahu took time out, a week ago, from his daily appearances on American television, denouncing terrorism, to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the terror attack on the King David Hotel by Menachem Begin's Irgun, an attack that killed 92 people, among them British nurses.

 

This was not a terrorist act, Bibi explained, because Irgun telephoned a 15-minute warning to the hotel before the bombs went off. Right. And those children in that basement in Qana should not have ignored the Israeli leaflets warning them to clear out of southern Lebanon.

 

Our Israeli friends appear to be playing us for fools.

[jijaji]

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

[jijaji]

Don,

 

You been watching too much FOXNEWS bro...

 

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Don,

 

You been watching too much FOXNEWS bro...

 

I don't watch fox news - ever. I don't even really 'watch' tv news much at all - the news on the web is better - it's there when I want and i don't have to hear a bunch of stuff i don't have any interest in to see what i do - from what i can see fox news - like most TV news - doesn't do enough.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]