The Moon is further than the Sun!

[Guest guest]

 

SB 8, 18 TEXT 5

 

 

 

TEXT

 

 

 

sronayam sravana-dvadasyam

muhurte 'bhijiti prabhuh

sarve naksatra-taradyas

cakrus taj-janma daksinam

 

SYNONYMS

sronayam--when the moon was situated in the Sravana lunar mansion; sravana-dvadasyam--on the twelfth lunar day of the bright fortnight in the month of Bhadra, the day famous as the Sravana-dvadasi; muhurte--in the auspicious moment; abhijiti--in the first portion of the Sravana lunar mansion known as the Abhijit-naksatra and in the Abhijit-muhurta (occurring at midday); prabhuh--the Lord; sarve--all; naksatra--stars; tara--planets; adyah--beginning with the sun and followed by the other planets; cakruh--made; tat-janma--the birthday of the Lord; daksinam--very munificent.

 

TRANSLATION

On the day of Sravana-dvadasi [the twelfth day of the bright fortnight in the month of Bhadra], when the moon came into the lunar mansion Sravana, at the auspicious moment of Abhijit, the Lord appeared in this universe. Considering the Lord's appearance very auspicious, all the stars and planets, from the sun to Saturn, were munificently charitable.

 

PURPORT

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, an expert astrologer, explains the word naksatra-taradyah. The word naksatra means "the stars," the word tara in this context refers to the planets, and adyah means "the first one specifically mentioned." Among the planets, the first is Surya, the sun, not the moon. Therefore, according to the Vedic version, the modern astronomer's proposition that the moon is nearest to the earth should not be accepted. The chronological order in which people all over the world refer to the days of the week--Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday--corresponds to the Vedic order of the planets and thus circumstantiates the Vedic version. Apart from this, when the Lord appeared the planets and stars became situated very auspiciously, according to astrological calculations, to celebrate the birth of the Lord.

[Guest guest]

Please tell this to Neil Armstrong and our American astronauts who landed on the moon.

 

c'mon we ALL know the moon is closer to the earth than the sun. If you want to be taken seriously, and not laughed at, please don't state otherwise. Next you'll be telling us the earth is flat because the bible speaks about the four corners of the earth.

 

next time you watch a solar eclipse, pay close attention!

[Guest guest]

 

Please tell this to Neil Armstrong and our American astronauts who landed on the moon.

 

c'mon we ALL know the moon is closer to the earth than the sun. If you want to be taken seriously, and not laughed at, please don't state otherwise. Next you'll be telling us the earth is flat because the bible speaks about the four corners of the earth.

 

next time you watch a solar eclipse, pay close attention!

 

Srila Prabhupada is just telling what Srila Visvanatha Cakravrati Thakur, a great astrologer, has stated.

 

I see you disagree with Srila Chakravarti Thakur.

[Guest guest]

 

Srila Prabhupada is just telling what Srila Visvanatha Cakravrati Thakur, a great astrologer, has stated.

 

I see you disagree with Srila Chakravarti Thakur.

 

I agree with the plain facts. We have been to the moon and back already. We have million dollar telescopes, etc. Don't you think all the astronauts we've sent into space, and all the astronomers who dedicate their lives to study "spaced", by now would have noticed the moon is farther away? There is no debate that the moon is closer. If you don't believe me, go to an observatory.

 

If you are unable to accept the facts, and want to bury your head in the sand, that is your problem. But don't expect the rest of us to join you.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Contruction of the Universe, can't be easy can it?

 

First get a Planet, then put in orbit. Wait the Moon should be further away, create some dimention, (4-D). Gateway, so seems Moon is closer. (I think once Kulapavana dasa said it's a reflection, of the Original Moon.).

 

I don't know it seems it needs to be closer to be able to provide light, but far away enough to be closer to the sun, to get (it's brightness). But why?

[Guest guest]

I think there has been some mix-up in understanding the ancient astronomical calculations.

 

Jupiter is the planet of the Moon world, having some 60 documented Moons.

 

There is one Moon called IO that has a mysterious shadow that much resembles the Rahu idea.

 

Maybe the ancients were refering to the Moons of Jupiter which is the Planet where the Priest of the demigods Brhaspati resides.

 

Maybe these events that happened millions of years ago have been misinterpreted as refering to the Moon of the Earth, when actually it was the Moons of Jupiter they were refering to?

 

After all, the Earth fell in the Garbha Ocean at one time and maybe Lord Varaha put the Earth back into a somewhat different orbit than it was previously.

 

If the Earth fell in the Garbha Ocean, then the Moon would have been effected by the gravitational change and possibly changed it's orbit as well?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

-

 

Isn't there a pathway to the Moon, through the planet Earth? A Gateway which is covered. OMG. I think the westerners stole all Vedic ideas. (Stargate). (Startgate Atlantis). Starwars!.

 

I wonder how the Gateway works. Must be some Subtle Gateway, which is unknown to Scientists.

[Guest guest]

enchantedlearning.com/igifs/Iooverjupiter.GIF

[Guest guest]

I am not sure if this is related but I have heard that some ancient Indian sages said the earth has a binary-star system (2 suns). The other sun would be farther out than the sun we now see. Could this other star be the celestial body that the SB is referring to? Obviously, the moon we see now is closer to the earth than the sun, but there may be another celestial body that is associated with our orbit, that is farther from the sun.

[Guest guest]

 

I think the westerners stole all Vedic ideas. (Stargate). (Startgate Atlantis). Starwars!

 

 

I've heard that there is an actual physical stargate portal (like on the tv show Stargate SG-1), in India somewhere. But this location is kept top secret and only known to a few. There are also stories from the Hopis (a Native American tribe) about travelling thru physical portals.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

I thought was like a wormhole. Portal, an actual stargate? Wonder why they closed it? Would have been handy. For some interplanertery travels. Is though. Just a small problem of getting mashed up into little pieces.

 

We could change money and give it to Krishna! Jaya Prabhupada!!!!

[Nrsinghadev]

 

TRANSLATION

On the day of Sravana-dvadasi [the twelfth day of the bright fortnight in the month of Bhadra], when the moon came into the lunar mansion Sravana, at the auspicious moment of Abhijit, the Lord appeared in this universe. Considering the Lord's appearance very auspicious, all the stars and planets, from the sun to Saturn, were munificently charitable.

 

PURPORT

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, an expert astrologer, explains the word naksatra-taradyah. The word naksatra means "the stars," the word tara in this context refers to the planets, and adyah means "the first one specifically mentioned." Among the planets, the first is Surya, the sun, not the moon. Therefore, according to the Vedic version, the modern astronomer's proposition that the moon is nearest to the earth should not be accepted. The chronological order in which people all over the world refer to the days of the week--Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday--corresponds to the Vedic order of the planets and thus circumstantiates the Vedic version. Apart from this, when the Lord appeared the planets and stars became situated very auspiciously, according to astrological calculations, to celebrate the birth of the Lord.

 

How does that establish that the moon is not nearest to the earth exactly? :confused:Among the planets the first is Surya the sun, well that seems obvious doesn't it? I mean the sun is obviously the most prominent and important planet in our system, without it there would be no life so how can they not rank it as the first planet? Of planets I am the sun says Krishna so how can we rank the sun second. The moon is almost as important to life on earth but just not more important than the sun because again, without the sun there's no life. But how does that imply that the moon is not nearest to the earth?

I never understood this reasoning so if anyone can explain this it would be appreciated. Furthermore it's obvious that the moon is nearest to the earth, not because of that moonlanding hoax, but simply because you can take a telescope and see. Also the solar eclipse and the effect the moon has on the tides of the sea serve as further evidence.

[theist]

I am not interested in the vedic cosmology myself. One sun in the whole universe?! And Earth just happens to be the closet planet to it in the entire universe. C'mon.

 

I believe our faith should be established in the transcendental knowledge of God found in the SB and not the descriptions of the universe.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

It's planet Rahu. (reflection of the Moon). I think. So if they went they went to Rahu. (if who knows if they went). If they went to actual moon then Prabhupada said they would have been kicked out. (no visa).

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Visa I put that in, Prabhupada said, kicked out. Earth also, if you goto another country same. No visa no entry. (you have to pay for it as well).

 

I would like to visit Moon one day If i can (i'm just joking).

[Gaea]

 

I am not interested in the vedic cosmology myself. One sun in the whole universe?! And Earth just happens to be the closet planet to it in the entire universe. C'mon.

 

I believe our faith should be established in the transcendental knowledge of God found in the SB and not the descriptions of the universe.

 

Perhaps our translation of the word "unverse" (from the sanskrit) is wrong. Perhaps Vyas was actually referring to the solar system?

[Guest guest]

Personally, I think modern astronomy is practically THE BIGGEST HOAX and lie of modern time.

 

The Vedic cosmology mentions other fiery planets besides the Sun, but they are not Suns as we know the sun.

 

The astonomers of today will tell as many lies as they have to in order to keep grant money coming in and their ridiculous salaries being paid.

 

I have seen enough to know that the whole thing is a scam and a fraud.

 

Anybody that buys into the modern astronomy hoax was a born sucker.

 

The computers in a Playstation or an X BOX are a lot more sophisticated than the computers these idiots claimed they used to go to the Moon with.

 

The computers of the 60's were toys compared to the computers of today.

 

Anybody that doesn't think the US government can't find some loyal military men to participate in a hoax moon landing to bankrupt the Russians in a space race does not understand the kind of dedication that carreer military men are capable of.

[gHari]

Moon thing resources: H E R E

[Guest guest]

 

Moon thing resources: /geocities.com/caitanyamahaprabhu/moonthing7.htm

 

But, does science confirm that the Moon is HIGHER than the Sun vertically, but closer to the Earth radially?

 

I doubt that.

 

I have been thinking the same theory for years without even knowing that Sadaputa was saying that.

[Gaea]

 

But, does science confirm that the Moon is HIGHER than the Sun vertically, but closer to the Earth radially?

 

I doubt that.

 

I have been thinking the same theory for years without even knowing that Sadaputa was saying that.

 

Depends on where you draw the plane!!!

[gHari]

Although the BhAgavatam gives a fairly detailed account of the movements of the sun, it gives only a relatively brief description of the movements of the other planets. The only information given about the positions of the planets is a list of their heights above BhU-maNDala. Their horizontal positions over the plane of BhU-maNDala are not mentioned. This list is given in Table 8.

 

The two most striking features of this list of planetary distances are (1) that the moon is listed as being higher than the sun, and (2) that the distances for the planets other than the moon are all much smaller than the values given to them by modern astronomers (see Table 1). To many people, this would seem to indicate that the BhAgavatam is giving an extremely unrealistic account of the positions of the planets. However, this is not necessarily so.

 

The key point to consider here is that these distances are all heights of the planets above the plane of BhU-maNDala. They are not distances along the line of sight from the earth to the planets. Let us therefore suppose that the distances of the planets from this earth along the plane of BhU-maNDala might be much larger than the figures in Table 8.

 

<center>TABLE 8

The Heights of the Planets Above BhU-maNDala

 

<table valign="TOP" border="4" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="3" width="50%"><tbody><tr><td width="40%"><center>Planet

 

Sun

Moon

Venus

Mercury

Mars

Jupiter

Saturn</center></td><td width="60%"><center>Height above

BhU-maNDala

800,000

1,600,000

4,800,000

6,400,000

8,000,000

9,600,000

11,200,000

</center></td></tr></tbody></table></center>

These figures, which are based on 8 miles per yojana, were obtained by using the planet-to-planet intervals from SB 5.22, plus the earth-to-sun distance given in SB 5.23.9p. The planetary heights listed in the verse translations in Chapter 22 are 800,000 miles higher than the figures in this table.

This is true in the case of the sun, since the distance from JambUdvIpa to Mount MAnasottara is about 126,000,000 miles, using 8 miles per yojana. Using our smaller figure from SUrya-siddhAnta of 5 miles per yojana, this distance comes to 78,750,000 miles. Thus the modern figure of 93,000,000 miles for the distance from the earth globe to the sun is bracketed by the BhAgavatam figures obtained using our two standard values for the length of a yojana.

 

If the planets do lie at great distances from us along the plane of BhU-maNDala, then from our point of view the planets must always lie very close to the great circle on the celestial sphere corresponding to this plane. (We argued this for the sun in Section 3.d.) Now, is it true that the planets all tend to lie very close to some particular celestial great circle? The answer is yes. The orbits of all of the planets are observed to lie very close to the great circle, called the ecliptic, which is the geocentric orbit of the sun.

 

<center>TABLE 9

The Maximum distances the Planets Move

from the Plane of the Ecliptic

 

<table valign="TOP" border="4" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="3" width="70%"><tbody><tr><td width="20%"><center>Planet

 

Sun

Moon

Venus

Mercury

Mars

Jupiter

Saturn

</center></td><td width="30%"><center>Orbital

Radius

1.00 AU

238,000 mi.

.72 AU

.39 AU

1.52 AU

5.20 AU

9.55 AU

</center></td><td width="20%"><center>Orbital

Inclination

0.000

5.150

3.400

7.167

1.850

1.317

2.480

</center></td><td width="30%"><center>Max distance

from Ecliptic

0.

21,364.

3,971,000.

4,525,000.

4,564,000.

11,115,000.

38,431,000.

</center></td></tr></tbody></table></center>

Here modern Western data (EA) is used to compute the maximum distance in miles that each planet travels form the plane of the ecliptic in the course of its orbit. This is the average radius of the orbit times the sine of the inclination of the orbit to the ecliptic. Geocentric orbits were used for the sun and moon, and heliocentric orbits were used for the other planets. (1 AU = 93,000,000 miles.)

 

In Table 9 there is a list of the maximum distances of the planets from the ecliptic, according to modern astronomical data. These distances agree only roughly with the heights in Table 8, but they give the same order for the relative distance of the planets, and some are of the same order of magnitude. (According to modern astronomy, Mercury should lie between Venus and Mars in this table because of the large inclination of its heliocentric orbit.)

 

One possible interpretation of Tables 8 and 9 is as follows: In accordance with the first hypothesis discussed in Section 3.d, the projection of the plane of BhU-maNDala on the celestial sphere is the ecliptic. The BhAgavatam is giving a qualitative description of how far the planets move from the ecliptic in the course of their orbits. In this description, the moon is higher than the sun because the sun always remains on the ecliptic whereas the moon moves away from it. Likewise, Venus is higher than the moon because it moves still further from the ecliptic.

 

One drawback of this interpretation is that the planets do not stay on one side of the ecliptic. In the course of their orbits they move equal distances on either side, following characteristic looping paths. This may seem to be in strong disagreement with the statements of the BhAgavatam, which simply specify fixed heights for the planets. However, we have seen that SrIla PrabhupAda has spoken of the disc of BhU-maNDala as a system of globes floating in space, and we have also argued that this earth is a globe and was regarded as such in Vedic times. Furthermore, SrIla PrabhupAda has said that planets belonging to different layers in the vertical direction can mix together in one layer. This may also seem contrary to the BhAgavatam.

 

We propose that such apparent contradictions can be reconciled by the idea that the BhAgavatam is using simple, three-dimensional imagery to describe a higher-dimensional situation that is directly experienced and understood by demigods, RSis, and great yogIs. In this case, we suggest that the image of perpendicular height above a plane provides a simple way to describe how the demigods view the actual, higher-dimensional situation: The height of a planet is an important higher-dimensional feature of that planet; this feature is reflected in the planet's visible motions away from the plane of the ecliptic and is described in simple terms in the Fifth Canto as height above the plane of BhU-maNDala.

[theist]

Even if the scientists fake the Moon landing,( I don't put it past them) it doesn't make the Moon farther from the Sun.

 

Eclipses have been mentioned but drew no responses. Hmmm...silence means agreement?

[Kulapavana]

first of all: Bhagavatam is talking about planes of existence not planets. the distances given there do not correspond to the linear distances between planet earth and other planets. they are elevations above Garbhodaka Ocean of the various planes of existence. these distances are there to give us some idea of the structure of the Universe, or it's proportions - thats all. try to understand what Garbhodaka Ocean really is. Brahma travelled down the lotus stem for a very long time at great speed and still could not reach the Ocean. think about it.

 

second of all, this world is multi-dimensional and and even with the respect to the earthly plane of existence we perceive only a small part of it - perfect example are the Himalayas, where we see only a fraction of their existence. the Moon we see is also but a small part of the lunar plane of existence. the same with the Sun - both are actually only a window into these planes of existence, or the shadow of these worlds cast into our world.

 

the key to the understanding of the Universe is the understanding of space or ether, akhasa. akhasa is non-linear and multi-dimensional. the perception of space is dependent on the consciousness.

[Guest guest]

 

Even if the scientists fake the Moon landing,( I don't put it past them) it doesn't make the Moon farther from the Sun.

 

Either you accept what HDG has written in his SB purports or accept some other relative explanation. As you wish.

 

TEXT 38

 

tesam padaghata-rathanga-curnitad

ayodhanad ulbana utthitas tada

renur disah kham dyumanim ca chadayan

nyavartatasrk-srutibhih pariplutat

 

SYNONYMS

 

tesam--of all the people engaged on the battlefield; padaghata--because of beating on the ground by the legs of the demons and demigods; ratha-anga--and by the wheels of the chariots; curnitat--which was made into pieces of dust; ayodhanat--from the battlefield; ulbanah--very forceful; utthitah--rising; tada--at that time; renuh--the dust particles; disah--all directions; kham--outer space; dyumanim--up to the sun; ca--also; chadayan--covering all of space up to that; nyavartata--dropped floating in the air; asrk--of blood; srutibhih--by particles; pariplutat--because of being widely sprinkled.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Because of the impact on the ground of the legs of the demons and demigods and the wheels of the chariots, particles of dust flew violently into the sky and made a dust cloud that covered all directions of outer space, as far as the sun. But when the particles of dust were followed by drops of blood being sprinkled all over space, the dust cloud could no longer float in the sky.

 

PURPORT

 

The cloud of dust covered the entire horizon, but when drops of blood sprayed up as far as the sun, the dust cloud could no longer float in the sky. A point to be observed here is that although the blood is stated to have reached the sun, it is not said to have reached the moon. Apparently, therefore, as stated elsewhere in Srimad-Bhagavatam, the sun, not the moon, is the planet nearest the earth. We have already discussed this point in many places. The sun is first, then the moon, then Mars, Jupiter and so on. The sun is supposed to be 93,000,000 miles above the surface of the earth, and from the Srimad-Bhagavatam we understand that the moon is 1,600,000 miles above the sun. Therefore the distance between the earth and the moon would be about 95,000,000 miles. So if a space capsule were traveling at the speed of 18,000 miles per hour, how could it reach the moon in four days? At that speed, going to the moon would take at least seven months. That a space capsule on a moon excursion has reached the moon in four days is therefore impossible.

SB 8.10.38

 

 

 

Eclipses have been mentioned but drew no responses. Hmmm...silence means agreement?

 

And with regard to solar and lunar eclipses:

 

Chapter Twenty-four

The Subterranean Heavenly Planets

 

This chapter describes the planet Rahu, which is 10,000 yojanas (80,000 miles) below the sun, and it also describes Atala and the other lower planetary systems. Rahu is situated below the sun and moon. It is between these two planets and the earth. When Rahu conceals the sun and moon, eclipses occur, either total or partial, depending on whether Rahu moves in a straight or curving way.

SB 5.24 intro

 

TEXT 3

 

TEXT

 

tan nisamyobhayatrapi bhagavata raksanaya prayuktam sudarsanam nama bhagavatam dayitam astram tat tejasa durvisaham muhuh parivartamanam abhyavasthito muhurtam udvijamanas cakita-hrdaya arad eva nivartate tad uparagam iti vadanti lokah.

 

SYNONYMS

 

tat--that situation; nisamya--hearing; ubhayatra--around both the sun and moon; api--indeed; bhagavata--by the Supreme Personality of Godhead; raksanaya--for their protection; prayuktam--engaged; sudarsanam--the wheel of Krsna; nama--named; bhagavatam--the most confidential devotee; dayitam--the most favorite; astram--weapon; tat--that; tejasa--by its effulgence; durvisaham--unbearable heat; muhuh--repeatedly; parivartamanam--moving around the sun and moon; abhyavasthitah--situated; muhurtam--for a muhurta (forty-eight minutes); udvijamanah--whose mind was full of anxieties; cakita--frightened; hrdayah--the core of whose heart; arat--to a distant place; eva--certainly; nivartate--flees; tat--that situation; uparagam--an eclipse; iti--thus; vadanti--they say; lokah--the people.

 

TRANSLATION

 

After hearing from the sun and moon demigods about Rahu's attack, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu, engages His disc, known as the Sudarsana cakra, to protect them. The Sudarsana cakra is the Lord's most beloved devotee and is favored by the Lord. The intense heat of its effulgence, meant for killing non-Vaisnavas, is unbearable to Rahu, and he therefore flees in fear of it. During the time Rahu disturbs the sun or moon, there occurs what people commonly know as an eclipse.

 

PURPORT

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Visnu, is always the protector of His devotees, who are also known as demigods. The controlling demigods are most obedient to Lord Visnu, although they also want material sense enjoyment, and that is why they are called demigods, or almost godly. Although Rahu attempts to attack both the sun and the moon, they are protected by Lord Visnu. Being very afraid of Lord Visnu's cakra, Rahu cannot stay in front of the sun or moon for more than a muhurta (forty-eight minutes). The phenomenon that occurs when Rahu blocks the light of the sun or moon is called an eclipse. The attempt of the scientists of this earth to go to the moon is as demoniac as Rahu's attack. Of course. their attempts will be failures because no one can enter the moon or sun so easily. Like the attack of Rahu, such attempts will certainly be failures.

 

SB 5.24.3

 

And according to SB the moon is twice the size of the sun. Even though it is farther from the earth planet it looks larger than the sun in the sky for this reason. Accept or not theist.

 

 

TEXT 2

 

TEXT

 

yad adas taraner mandalam pratapatas tad vistarato yojanayutam acaksate dvadasa-sahasram somasya trayodasa-sahasram rahor yah parvani tad-vyavadhana-krd vairanubandhah surya-candramasav abhidhavati.

 

SYNONYMS

 

yat--which; adah--that; taraneh--of the sun; mandalam--globe; pratapatah--which is always distributing heat; tat--that; vistaratah--in terms of width; yojana--a distance of eight miles; ayutam--ten thousand; acaksate--they estimate; dvadasa-sahasram--20,000 yojanas (160,000 miles); somasya--of the moon; trayodasa--thirty; sahasram--one thousand; rahoh--of the planet Rahu; yah--which; parvani--on occasion; tat-vyavadhana-krt--who created an obstruction to the sun and moon at the time of the distribution of nectar; vaira-anubandhah--whose intentions are inimical; surya--the sun; candramasau--and the moon; abhidhavati--runs after them on the full-moon night and the dark-moon day.

 

TRANSLATION

 

The sun globe, which is a source of heat, extends for 10,000 yojanas [80,000 miles]. The moon extends for 20,000 yojanas [160,000 miles], and Rahu extends for 30,000 yojanas [240,000 miles]. Formerly, when nectar was being distributed, Rahu tried to create dissension between the sun and moon by interposing himself between them. Rahu is inimical toward both the sun and the moon, and therefore he always tries to cover the sunshine and moonshine on the dark-moon day and full-moon night.

 

PURPORT

 

As stated herein, the sun extends for 10,000 yojanas, and the moon extends for twice that, or 20,000 yojanas. The word dvadasa should be understood to mean twice as much as ten, or twenty. In the opinion of Vijayadhvaja, the extent of Rahu should be twice that of the moon, or text of the Bhagavatam, Vijayadhvaja cites the following quotation concerning Rahu; rahu-soma-ravinam tu mandala dvi-gunoktitam. This means that Rahu is twice as large as the moon, which is twice as large as the sun. This is the conclusion of the commentator Vijayadhvaja.

SB 5.24.1

 

If we can beliee that the Supreme Lord is a blue cowherd boy with a peacock feather, playing a flute in goloka, then information about this relative universe is a small leap in faith. Srila Prabhupada also wrote:

 

 

TEXT 8

 

TEXT

 

uttarottarenelavrtam nilah svetah srngavan iti trayo ramyaka-hiranmaya-kurunam varsanam maryada-girayah prag-ayata ubhayatah ksarodavadhayo dvi-sahasra-prthava ekaikasah purvasmat purvasmad uttara uttaro dasamsadhikamsena dairghya eva hrasanti.

 

SYNONYMS

 

uttara-uttarena ilavrtam--further and further north of Ilavrta-varsa; nilah--Nila; svetah--Sveta; srngavan--Srngavan; iti--thus; trayah--three mountains; ramyaka--Ramyaka; hiranmaya--Hiranmaya; kurunam--of the Kuru division; varsanam--of the varsas; maryada-girayah--the mountains marking the borders; prak-ayatah--extended on the eastern side; ubhayatah--to the east and the west; ksaroda--the ocean of salt water; avadhayah--extending to; dvi-sahasra-prthavah--which are two thousand yojanas wide; eka-ekasah--one after another; purvasmat--than the former; purvasmat--than the former; uttarah--further north; uttarah--further north; dasa-amsa-adhika-amsena--by one tenth of the former; dairghyah--in length; eva--indeed; hrasanti--become shorter.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Just north of Ilavrta-varsa--and going further northward, one after another--are three mountains named Nila, Sveta and Srngavan. These mark the borders of the three varsas named Ramyaka, Hiranmaya and Kuru and separate them from one another. The width of these mountains is 2,000 yojanas [16,000 miles]. Lengthwise, they extend east and west to the beaches of the ocean of salt water. Going from south to north, the length of each mountain is one tenth that of the previous mountain, but the height of them all is the same.

 

PURPORT

 

In this regard, Madhvacarya quotes the following verses from the Brahmanda Purana:

 

yatha bhagavate tuktam

bhauvanam kosa-laksanam

tasyavirodhato yojyam

anya-granthantare sthitam

 

mandode puranam caiva

vyatyasam ksira-sagare

rahu-soma-ravinam ca

mandalad dvi-gunoktitam

vinaiva sarvam unneyam

yojanabhedato 'tra tu

 

It appears from these verses that aside from the sun and moon, there is an invisible planet called Rahu. The movements of Rahu cause both solar and lunar eclipses. We suggest that the modern expeditions attempting to reach the moon are mistakenly going to Rahu.

SB 5.16.8

[gHari]

Higher-dimensional Travel in the Vertical Direction

 

 

 

One aspect of our interpretation of the planetary distances in Table 8 is that the vertical dimension in Vedic cosmology is more than just a third coordinate axis, as understood in ordinary geometry. It also involves a higher-dimensional aspect that goes beyond the range of our senses. We can obtain one indication of this by considering the highest destination that one can reach within this universe by traveling in this vertical direction. This is the planetary system called Satyaloka, which is the abode of BrahmA, the secondary creator of the universe.

 

According to the BhAgavatam, Satyaloka is located near the top of the universal globe, in the direction of the north celestial pole. Since the earth is located near the center of this globe, this means that Satyaloka is about 2 billion miles from the earth. A spaceship traveling at 500 miles per hour (a moderate speed for a jet plane) could cover 2 billion miles in 457 years, and thus it would seem that it might be feasible for human beings to reach Satyaloka using mechanical technology.

 

Yet in SB 5.1.21p we read the remarkable statement that Satyaloka "is situated many millions and billions of years away." Similarly, SB 1.9.29p states that "even attempting to reach the highest planet will take millions of years at a speed of millions of miles per hour." And SB 2.2.23p completely rules out the possibility of going beyond Svargaloka or Janaloka by "mechanical or materialistic activities, either gross or subtle."

 

SB 5.1.21 describes the abode of BrahmA as being "indescribable by the endeavor of mundane mind or words." In the terminology adopted in this book, this means that to describe Satyaloka adequately, we would have to make use of higher-dimensional concepts that cannot be grasped by our present minds and senses. At the very least, this implies that our ordinary concepts of space and time might break down when applied to this region of the universe.

 

An interesting indication of the form this breakdown might take is given in the following story from the BhAgavatam:

 

Taking his own daughter, RevatI, KakudmI went to Lord BrahmA in Brahmaloka, which is transcendental to the three modes of material nature, and inquired about a husband for her. When KakudmI arrived there, Lord BrahmA was engaged in hearing musical performances by the Gandharvas and had not a moment to talk with him. Therefore KakudmI waited, and at the end of the musical performances … [he] submitted his long-standing desire.

 

After hearing his words, Lord BrahmA, who is most powerful, laughed loudly and said to KakudmI, "O King, all those whom you may have decided within the core of your heart to accept as your son-in-law have passed away in the course of time. Twenty-seven catur-yugas have already passed. Those upon whom you may have decided are now gone, and so are their sons, grandsons, and other descendants. You cannot even hear about their names" [sB 9.3.29–32].

 

Here we see that when one visits Satyaloka, one experiences a transformation of time reminiscent of the time dilation of Einstein's theory of relativity. King KakudmI and his daughter were evidently advanced yogIs who were able to travel to Satyaloka by nonmechanical means. Although for them the trip took only a short time, when they returned to the earth they found that millions of years had passed. We may then ask, Did the distance that they traveled seem like two billion miles to them? If so, then it might also be that from our perspective the distance was billions and billions of miles. Although this is merely a conjecture, it does indicate some of the things that are possible in a universe that is ultimately inconceivable by our mundane minds. (Note, by the way, that RevatI is the name of the star Zeta Piscium, which is used as the zero point for celestial longitudes in the jyotiSa zAstras.)

 

Between the earth and Satyaloka there is a standard path traversed after death by transcendentalists and highly elevated persons. This is called the uttarAyaNa path, and it is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gItA (8.24). A more detailed description of the various stages of this path is given in the VedAnta-sUtra commentary of Baladeva VidyAbhUSaNa:

(1) Archis, the Deva of light, (2) Dinam, the Deva of day, (3) Suklapaksam, the Deva of the Bright-fortnight, (4) UttarAyanam, the Deva of the northern progress of the sun, (5) Samvatsaram, the Deva of the year, (6) Devalokam, the world of the Devas (the same as VAyuloka, according to some), (7) VAyu, the world of VAyu, (8) Adityam, the world of the sun, (9) Chandram, the world of the moon, (10) Vidyut, the world of lightning, (11) VaruNam, the world of water, (12) Indram, the world of Indra, (13) PrajApati, the world of PrajApati, or of the four-faced BrahmA [VSB, p. 729].

 

Baladeva VidyAbhUSaNa comments that in this list, the various items refer not to landmarks on the path, but to various demigods who make arrangements for the passage of the soul (see BG 8.24p also). This indicates that higher-dimensional travel along the "vertical dimension" of the universe involves more than a simple ballistic trajectory of the kind followed by a rocket. It also involves the action of a hierarchy of beings, all of whom are inaccessible to our ordinary senses. The motion towards the north celestial pole is simply the three-dimensional aspect of this higher travel.

 

The descent of the Ganges River from the upper regions of the universe to the earth provides another interesting indication of the nature of travel along the vertical dimension in Vedic cosmology. According to the BhAgavatam, the Ganges consists of water from the KAraNa Ocean that entered the upper portion of the universe through a hole kicked in the universal covering by Lord VAmanadeva (SB 5.17.1). This water takes a thousand yugas to reach the planet Dhruvaloka, or the polestar, which is situated approximately 30 million miles above the sun. (Here the term yuga indicates a divya-yuga of 4,320,000 years.) Since the sun is situated vertically in the center of the universe (SB 5.20.43), this means that the Ganges covers a distance of some two billion miles in 4,320,000,000 years. Since this is a very slow rate of progress even for a very sluggish river, this may be another example of the transformation of time, and possibly of space, which occurs in the higher regions of the universe.

 

From Dhruvaloka the Ganges reaches the planets of the seven sages, and from there it is carried to the moon "through the spaceways of the demigods" in billions of celestial airplanes. From the moon it falls down (nipatati) to the top of Mount Meru, where it divides into four branches. Finally, one of these branches becomes the Ganges of India (SB 5.17.3–9).

 

Since the moon is continuously moving in its orbit, it is hard to see how the top of Mount Meru could always be directly underneath it in an ordinary geometric sense. It therefore seems that the descent of the Ganges from the moon to Mount Meru must involve physical principles that are presently unknown. Of course, as we have already pointed out, the final appearance of the Ganges in India also requires such principles, since we certainly do not see its descent from a higher region of the universe.

 

Thus our conclusion is that if we take the description of the descent of the Ganges seriously, then we must be prepared to view it in the context of principles that go beyond the framework of our familiar physical theories. We suggest that although these principles are not explicitly explained in the BhAgavatam and other Vedic texts in Western terms, they are nonetheless employed in these works in a consistent way. One example of this is SrIla PrabhupAda's statement in Light of the BhAgavata that "one has to cross MAnasa Lake and then Sumeru Mountain, and only then can one trace out the orbit of the moon" (LB, p. 48). This statement is consistent with one idea that emerges from the story of the Ganges: In some higher dimensional sense, the route from the earth to the moon passes through the region of Mount Meru in JambUdvIpa.

 

In SB 5.23.5 the celestial Ganges is identified with the Milky Way, and in SB 2.2.24 it is said that the Milky Way is a pathway that mystics follow through the heavens on their way to Satyaloka. It is interesting to note that similar ideas have traditionally been held in cultures around the world. Thus, both the Polynesians and various American Indian tribes maintained that the Milky Way is a pathway to heaven followed by the souls of the departed, and they also held that those souls who were not perfectly pure would eventually have to return to the earth (HM, p. 243).

 

The ancient Egyptians apparently regarded the Nile as an earthly continuation of the Milky Way (HM, p. 260), an idea they may have imported from an original homeland in India. (SrIla PrabhupAda indicates in SB 2.7.22p that according to the MahAbhArata, the kings of ancient Egypt were driven there from India by ParazurAma.)

 

The Chinese also had the idea that the Milky Way is a celestial river that descends to the earth. Their account is as follows: "The celestial river divides into two branches near the North Pole and goes from there to the South Pole. One of its arms passes by the lunar mansion Nan-teou (lambda Sagittarii), and the other by the lunar mansion Toung-tsing (Gemini). The river is the celestial water, flowing across the heavens and falling under the earth" (HM, p. 260).