The Moon is further than the Sun!

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

1 point for me:deal:

[mahak]

Of course the moon is much further away. We cant see anything, because we are blind. We get little glimpses, but a slight change in UV rays, we see nothing. Yet we are soo sure of those things that look like shiny quarters above our heads.

 

Funny, I never batted an eye when I first heard Srila Prabhupadas version. Probably, because as a military contractor, I went to a place that was filmed as the moon, between Barstow and Needles, god forsaken military (Army) land, in no mans land. Same rocks, everything.

 

I never had a problem with the maps either, in 5th canto, but I could have drawn a clearer one (if I had the slightest artistic ability. Those so called sub-terranian planetary systems, the Talas (rasatala, patala, etc.) were drawn wrong, because they were down from the earth.

 

But this is really up, ask any kiwi or aussie. And sub-terranian means beneath the surface. So, the very opulewnt planets (talas) of nagas and others are inside the earth globe. And there is no shportage of space within the geometric globe because more living enitities can and do exist on the mote barely detectible by these imperfect eyes floating in the air means that within the earth globe, more than ample room is there. I never had the slightest problem with the fact that 10,000,000,000 soldiers were killed daily at Kuruksttra for 18 days either, nor do I have a problem with arjunas 16 foot height (he was considered Pygmy-sized by Muchukunda, sleeping from an even earlier age.)

 

Its all relative, the only certainty is that humans have very imperfect senses.

 

Heres a good one for you, a true statement of fact. A glimpse of the lab workers posing in triumph after creating the great lenses of the Hubble Telescope showed the FACT that 80 % of them had corrective lenses on their own eyeglasses. Yes, friends, those scientists who view the universe for you because you have no trust in authoritive TRUTH from Srimad Bhagavatam (meaning God and those who have confidential relationship with Him), their eyes are shot to begin with.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

 

Of course the moon is much further away. We cant see anything, because we are blind. We get little glimpses, but a slight change in UV rays, we see nothing. Yet we are soo sure of those things that look like shiny quarters above our heads.

 

Funny, I never batted an eye when I first heard Srila Prabhupadas version. Probably, because as a military contractor, I went to a place that was filmed as the moon, between Barstow and Needles, god forsaken military (Army) land, in no mans land. Same rocks, everything.

 

I never had a problem with the maps either, in 5th canto, but I could have drawn a clearer one (if I had the slightest artistic ability. Those so called sub-terranian planetary systems, the Talas (rasatala, patala, etc.) were drawn wrong, because they were down from the earth.

 

But this is really up, ask any kiwi or aussie. And sub-terranian means beneath the surface. So, the very opulewnt planets (talas) of nagas and others are inside the earth globe. And there is no shportage of space within the geometric globe because more living enitities can and do exist on the mote barely detectible by these imperfect eyes floating in the air means that within the earth globe, more than ample room is there. I never had the slightest problem with the fact that 10,000,000,000 soldiers were killed daily at Kuruksttra for 18 days either, nor do I have a problem with arjunas 16 foot height (he was considered Pygmy-sized by Muchukunda, sleeping from an even earlier age.)

 

Its all relative, the only certainty is that humans have very imperfect senses.

 

Heres a good one for you, a true statement of fact. A glimpse of the lab workers posing in triumph after creating the great lenses of the Hubble Telescope showed the FACT that 80 % of them had corrective lenses on their own eyeglasses. Yes, friends, those scientists who view the universe for you because you have no trust in authoritive TRUTH from Srimad Bhagavatam (meaning God and those who have confidential relationship with Him), their eyes are shot to begin with.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

The Sun is FURTHER in distance if we mean miles. Puranas are not literal texts.

 

If we look at it from another perspect, as I believe gHari has posted, THEN only will the puranic cosmology make sense. But if we take this language as literally saying the physical moon is farther than the sun, than we are being foolish.

 

Buy your own telescope, and you will see. Better yet, learn to astral travel in your subtle body, and you will find the moon is CLOSER than the sun in miles from the earth. MANY yogis have visited the moon and the sun, so it is possible to do. You can verify this up close if you can astral travel to the moon.

 

But please do not be naive and blindly follow ancient texts, without understanding their deeper meaning, perspective and context. It makes all Gaudiyas look like some strange, braindead cultists when we make such absurd claims about the moon or dinosaur bones. No one will take us seriously, if we are so anti-scientific that we deny the obvious. God does not want you to be so blind, that you can't see the obvious.

 

Some religious texts describe the world floating on an elephant's back, or is it a turtle's back? obviously this is not literal. If you really believe this world is flat, or that we are floating on a turtle's back, or the earth is closer to the sun, well... I have some beachfront property in Arizona you might be interested in purchasing.

[Guest guest]

 

T

If we look at it from another perspect, as I believe gHari has posted, THEN only will the puranic cosmology make sense. But if we take this language as literally saying the physical moon is farther than the sun, than we are being foolish.

 

In case you missed the point that was made in reference to the idea presented by Sadaputa, the idea is that the Moon is HIGHER than the Sun vertically, but the Sun is farther away radially.

 

Unless and until somebody can disprove that, it sounds like a good theory that somehow maintains the integrity of the Bhagavat cosmology yet does not conflict with what science is saying.

[Guest guest]

I agree fully with Mahak. Also, why should anyone trust the senses of astral

travellers? Astral senses can be just as defective as physical senses. I have

more trust in the great sages at Naimasaranya.

 

But hey, that's just me.

[Guest guest]

"A kanistha-adhikari is one who offers worship to the Deity form of Lord Hari, arca-vigraha, according to laukika-sraddha (ordinary faith), not sastriya-sraddha (faith based on sastra). It is a question of sraddha. Two types of sraddha are there, sastriya-sraddha and laukika sraddha. When we speak of sraddha we mean sastriya-sraddha. One should develop sastriya-sraddha, not laukika sraddha. And, na tad-bhaktesu canyesu sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah, one who doesn't pay respect to hari bhakta, the devotee of Lord Hari, and isn't compassionate toward other living entities in whom Lord Hari is present, he is a kanistha-bhakta."

 

Srila Gaura Govinda Maharaja

[Guest guest]

TEXT 1

 

TEXT

 

rajovaca

 

uktas tvaya bhu-mandalayama-viseso yavad adityas tapati yatra casau jyotisam ganais candrama va saha drsyate.

 

SYNONYMS

 

raja uvaca--Maharaja Pariksit said; uktah--already been said; tvaya--by you; bhu-mandala--of the planetary system known as Bhu-mandala; ayama-visesah--the specific length of the radius; yavat--as far as; adityah--the sun; tapati--heats; yatra--wherever; ca--also; asau--that; jyotisam--of the luminaries; ganaih--with hordes; candrama--the moon; va--either; saha--with; drsyate--is seen.

 

TRANSLATION

 

King Pariksit said to Sukadeva Gosvami: O brahmana, you have already informed me that the radius of Bhu-mandala extends as far as the sun spreads its light and heat and as far as the moon and all the stars can be seen.

 

PURPORT

 

In this verse it is stated that the planetary system known as Bhu-mandala extends to the limits of the sunshine. According to modern science, the sunshine reaches earth from a distance of 93,000,000 miles. If we calculate according to this modern information, 93,000,000 miles can be considered the radius of Bhu-mandala. In the Gayatri mantra, we chant om bhur bhuvah svah. The word bhur refers to Bhu-mandala. Tat savitur varenyam: the sunshine spreads throughout Bhu-mandala. Therefore the sun is worshipable. The stars, which are known as naksatra, are not different suns, as modern astronomers suppose. From Bhagavad-gita (10.21) we understand that the stars are similar to the moon (naksatranam aham sasi). Like the moon, the stars reflect the sunshine. Apart from our modern distinguished estimations of where the planetary systems are located, we can understand that the sky and its various planets were studied long, long before Srimad-Bhagavatam was compiled. Sukadeva Gosvami explained the location of the planets, and this indicates that the information was known long, long before Sukadeva Gosvami related it to Maharaja Pariksit. The location of the various planetary systems was not unknown to the sages who flourished in the Vedic age.

 

SB 5.16.1

[Guest guest]

 

In case you missed the point that was made in reference to the idea presented by Sadaputa, the idea is that the Moon is HIGHER than the Sun vertically, but the Sun is farther away radially.

 

Unless and until somebody can disprove that, it sounds like a good theory that somehow maintains the integrity of the Bhagavat cosmology yet does not conflict with what science is saying.

 

You responded to me.. and yes that makes perfect sense to me. Obviously the sun is further away in distance but not in vertical height.

 

To state the moon is further away in distance, is what is false, and makes us the laughing-stocks of science and the average public (have your kid turn in a science project on the solar-system with the moon farther away, and see the ridicule he/she faces). The truth is, the Vedic scientists were very advanced, and discovered sub-atomic particles and more thousands of yrs ago. So Vedic-science is not in conflict with science. The problem is when we misread ancient texts, because we do not understand the perspective they were speaking from.

[Guest guest]

 

"A kanistha-adhikari is one who offers worship to the Deity form of Lord Hari, arca-vigraha, according to laukika-sraddha (ordinary faith), not sastriya-sraddha (faith based on sastra). It is a question of sraddha. Two types of sraddha are there, sastriya-sraddha and laukika sraddha. When we speak of sraddha we mean sastriya-sraddha. One should develop sastriya-sraddha, not laukika sraddha. And, na tad-bhaktesu canyesu sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah, one who doesn't pay respect to hari bhakta, the devotee of Lord Hari, and isn't compassionate toward other living entities in whom Lord Hari is present, he is a kanistha-bhakta."

 

Srila Gaura Govinda Maharaja

 

Or, as the spiritual master of Gaura Govinda Swami (Srila Prabhupada) said in Nectar of Devotion.

 

 

The neophyte or third-class devotee is one whose faith is not strong and who,

at the same time, does not recognize the decision of the revealed scripture. The

neophyte's faith can be changed by someone else with strong arguments or by an

opposite decision. Unlike the second-class devotee, who also cannot put forward

arguments and evidences from the scripture, but who still has all faith in the

objective, the neophyte has no firm faith in the objective. Thus he is called

the neophyte devotee.

Further classification of the neophyte devotee is made in the Bhagavad-gita.

It is stated there that four classes of men--namely those who are distressed,

those who are in need of money, those who are inquisitive and those who are

wise--begin devotional service and come to the Lord for relief in the matter of

their respective self-satisfaction. They go into some place of worship and pray

to God for mitigation of material distress, or for some economic development, or

to satisfy their inquisitiveness. And a wise man who simply realizes the

greatness of God is also counted among the neophytes. Such beginners can be

elevated to the second-class or first-class platform if they associate with pure

devotees.

An example of the neophyte class is Maharaja Dhruva. He was in need of his

father's kingdom and therefore engaged himself in devotional service to the

Lord. Then in the end, when he was completely purified, he declined to accept

any material benediction from the Lord. Similarly, Gajendra was distressed and

prayed to Krsna for protection, after which he became a pure devotee. Similarly

Sanaka, Sanatana, Sananda and Sanat-kumara were all in the category of wise,

saintly persons, and they were also attracted by devotional service. A similar

thing happened to the assemblage in the Naimisaranya Forest, headed by the sage

Saunaka. They were inquisitive and were always asking Suta Gosvami about Krsna.

Thus they achieved the association of a pure devotee and became pure devotees

themselves. So that is the way of elevating oneself. In whatever condition one

may be, if he is fortunate enough to associate with pure devotees, then very

quickly he is elevated to the second-class or first-class platform.

[Guest guest]

A lunar eclipse enabled the ancient Greeks to estimate how far the Moon was--over 2000 years ago. Such an eclipse tends to be long, and is often total, because the Earth is big and its shadow is much larger than the Moon, easily able to cover the Moon entirely, for hours.

A solar eclipse occurs when the Moon's shadow falls on the Earth, and is completely different. Because the Moon is small, its shadow will only cover part of the Earth.

 

You might think the shadow is as big as the Moon, but it is actually much smaller. If the Sun were a point-like object, the Moon's shadow would indeed have the size of the Moon. But actually, the Sun covers in the sky a disk of 0.5°, about as big as the Moon. As a result, only in a small region on Earth, maybe 100-150 km across, is it completely covered by the Moon. The Moon is close enough to Earth that if we move only a few hundred kilometers, our line of sight changes sufficiently to uncover some of the Sun, so that we only see a partial eclipse.

 

The Earth-Sun distance and Earth-Moon distance vary due to the elliptical orbits of the Earth and the Moon. Sometimes the Moon is too far to cover the Sun, and we do not get any totality. At such eclipses, even in the center of the shadow zone, a "ring of fire" is seen around the dark Moon, which is not quite big enough to cover the entire Sun.

[theist]

Letter to: Krsnadasa

—

Vrindaban

7 November, 1972

72-11-07

 

My Dear Krsnadasa,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated October 30, 1972, and I have noted the contents. It appears that you are again constantly disturbed by the same nonsense doubts. These things are not very important, we may not waste our time with these insignificant questions. If we are seeking to find out some fault, maya will give us all facility to find any small thing and make it very big, that is maya. But such questions as yours: why there is so-called discrepancy between the views of Bhagavat and modern scientists regarding the moon and other planets, and whether Hitler is good or bad man, these are most insignificant matters, and for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise. Our information comes from Vedas, and if we believe Krishna, that

vedaham samatitani

vartamanani carjuna

bhavisyani ca bhutani

mam tu veda na kascana

[bg. 7.26]

that He knows everything, and "vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham [bg. 15.15],'' that Krishna is non-different from Vedas, then these questions do not arise.

But because you have asked me, I am your spiritual master, I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King Puranjana. Just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? So we are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam. But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet. The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. We take Krishna's version:

gam avisya ca bhutani

dharayamy aham ojasa

pusnami causadhih sarvah

somo bhutvah rasatmakah

[bg. 15.13]

"I become the moon,'' and "yac chandramasi yac cagnau,'' (ibid, 12) "I am the splendor of the moon,'' and "jyotisam api taj jyotis,'' [bg. 13.18] "I am the source of light in all luminous objects,'' so no one is able to give us the correct information than Krishna, that you should know.

Regarding Hitler, so Hitler may be good man or bad man, so what does he help to our Krishna Consciousness movement? But it is a fact that much propaganda was made against him, that much I know, and the Britishers are first-class propagandists. And I have heard that his officers did everything without informing him, just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: "Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that.'' But we have nothing to do with Hitler in our Krishna Consciousness. Do not be deviated by such ideas "Jnanam jneyam jnana-gamyam,'' (ibid), Krishna is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, He is the goal of knowledge, and

you mam evam asammudho

janati purusottamam

sa sarva-vid bhajati mam

[bg. XV, 19]

"Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is to be understood as the knower of everything, and he engages himself therefore in devotional service''—this is the understanding of advanced devotee, so my best advice to you is to agree to come to this understanding.

Your ever well wisher,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

 

 

Sometimes GV's sound too much like some Christians who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old.

 

ps Puru I noticed you forgot to sign in again.

[Guest guest]

 

Sometimes GV's sound too much like some Christians who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old.

 

yes, and even most Christians have conceded points like the earth is a globe and their former geocentric model of the sun/earth relationship. Though their are a couple bible literalist holdouts, still trying to state that the earth is flat.

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_society

 

People that unreasonable cannot be convinced, because if they concede on one point, they believe their faith will crumble. Their faith is based on staunch literalism and not on meta-physical (spiritual) realizations.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Thats how Christians then say there is no re-incarnation, and deny Vedic Scriptures. I think they say Dinosarus exsisted with man thousands of years ago as well (i read that on a site). I didn't even bat an eyelid lol

[theist]

 

People that unreasonable cannot be convinced, because if they concede on one point, they believe their faith will crumble. Their faith is based on staunch literalism and not on meta-physical (spiritual) realizations.

 

This is real danger I believe. It is a much better idea to protect our fledgling faith by sticking solidly to the transcendental conclusions of the SB which outshines every other book of knowledge I have ever come across with no close seconds.

 

The question of the King of Mathura, Ugrasena, having 5 or 6 billion personal bodyguards for example. Must I take that literally before I can have faith in God? Why?

[mawab]

 

-

 

Isn't there a pathway to the Moon, through the planet Earth? A Gateway which is covered. OMG. I think the westerners stole all Vedic ideas. (Stargate). (Startgate Atlantis). Starwars!.

 

I wonder how the Gateway works. Must be some Subtle Gateway, which is unknown to Scientists.

 

the illuminati scientists know about the pathway and they use it to go to the moon and elsewhere trying to get to brahmaloka but brahma is on to their tricks and has notified indra to guard the gates else things really get out of control

[mawab]

 

Thats how Christians then say there is no re-incarnation, and deny Vedic Scriptures. I think they say Dinosarus exsisted with man thousands of years ago as well (i read that on a site). I didn't even bat an eyelid lol

 

the bones are tama gila fish and they are still in the ocean and that's why sometimes big oceanliners disappear

[Guest guest]

 

This is real danger I believe. It is a much better idea to protect our fledgling faith by sticking solidly to the transcendental conclusions of the SB which outshines every other book of knowledge I have ever come across with no close seconds.

 

The question of the King of Mathura, Ugrasena, having 5 or 6 billion personal bodyguards for example. Must I take that literally before I can have faith in God? Why?

 

..and another danger is that the fanatics cause curious seekers to look elsewhere. Imagine someone curious about Vaishnavism reading this thread. They'd think we are delusional, saying these statements about the moon, so why would they listen to anything we had to share if we are this farout on basic matters?

 

No wonder the Vedas were off limits to the general public for so long. Had the literalists read the Vedas, they would have not understood their deeper spiritual meaning, and come to all types of erroneous conclusions..

[Guest guest]

 

the illuminati scientists know about the pathway and they use it to go to the moon and elsewhere trying to get to brahmaloka but brahma is on to their tricks and has notified indra to guard the gates else things really get out of control

 

I believe the Illuminati is associated with a race of reptilian beings. If you research this on google, you will find out what I am talking about. What I am wondering if this race is the Nagas spoken about in Vedic literature? are the Nagas secretly controlling international affairs and outcomes from behind the scenes?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

the bones are tama gila fish and they are still in the ocean and that's why sometimes big oceanliners disappear

 

 

Amazing, they are in burmuda triangle? They must pounce everytime an oceanliner goes past.

[theist]

 

..and another danger is that the fanatics cause curious seekers to look elsewhere. Imagine someone curious about Vaishnavism reading this thread. They'd think we are delusional, saying these statements about the moon, so why would they listen to anything we had to share if we are this farout on basic matters?

 

No wonder the Vedas were off limits to the general public for so long. Had the literalists read the Vedas, they would have not understood their deeper spiritual meaning, and come to all types of erroneous conclusions..

 

Reminds of the time in the early ninties I walked into Berkeley temple seeking some Deity darshan. Two brahmacari's were packing up and ready to walk to UCB campus. They were exited and even giddy. They were provoking debates on this moon thing with the students there. This was what they thought their preaching mission was.

 

I was speechless. Imagine the impression the students were left with concerning Hare Krsna's. Sheesh

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Lets all pray to the moon god for guidance. So we may understand his movements.

[Guest guest]

The moon may be closer alright but astronauts landing on the moon? Yeah right! Strange they never tried to go back again in the 30 years since ... not actually, not strange really, considering that most countries have advanced tracking systems now that can tell if someone actually reached the moon!

 

 

I agree with the plain facts. We have been to the moon and back already. We have million dollar telescopes, etc. Don't you think all the astronauts we've sent into space, and all the astronomers who dedicate their lives to study "spaced", by now would have noticed the moon is farther away? There is no debate that the moon is closer. If you don't believe me, go to an observatory.

 

If you are unable to accept the facts, and want to bury your head in the sand, that is your problem. But don't expect the rest of us to join you.

[Kulapavana]

The distance to the Moon can now be measured with a laser beam down to less than an inch at a given time, thanks to the mirror array placed on the Moon by the Apollo mission.

[Guest guest]

 

I agree with the plain facts. We have been to the moon and back already. We have million dollar telescopes, etc. Don't you think all the astronauts we've sent into space, and all the astronomers who dedicate their lives to study "spaced", by now would have noticed the moon is farther away? There is no debate that the moon is closer. If you don't believe me, go to an observatory.

 

If you are unable to accept the facts, and want to bury your head in the sand, that is your problem. But don't expect the rest of us to join you.

[Guest guest]

TEXT 8

 

TEXT

 

uttarottarenelavrtam nilah svetah srngavan iti trayo ramyaka-hiranmaya-kurunam varsanam maryada-girayah prag-ayata ubhayatah ksarodavadhayo dvi-sahasra-prthava ekaikasah purvasmat purvasmad uttara uttaro dasamsadhikamsena dairghya eva hrasanti.

 

SYNONYMS

 

uttara-uttarena ilavrtam--further and further north of Ilavrta-varsa; nilah--Nila; svetah--Sveta; srngavan--Srngavan; iti--thus; trayah--three mountains; ramyaka--Ramyaka; hiranmaya--Hiranmaya; kurunam--of the Kuru division; varsanam--of the varsas; maryada-girayah--the mountains marking the borders; prak-ayatah--extended on the eastern side; ubhayatah--to the east and the west; ksaroda--the ocean of salt water; avadhayah--extending to; dvi-sahasra-prthavah--which are two thousand yojanas wide; eka-ekasah--one after another; purvasmat--than the former; purvasmat--than the former; uttarah--further north; uttarah--further north; dasa-amsa-adhika-amsena--by one tenth of the former; dairghyah--in length; eva--indeed; hrasanti--become shorter.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Just north of Ilavrta-varsa--and going further northward, one after another--are three mountains named Nila, Sveta and Srngavan. These mark the borders of the three varsas named Ramyaka, Hiranmaya and Kuru and separate them from one another. The width of these mountains is 2,000 yojanas [16,000 miles]. Lengthwise, they extend east and west to the beaches of the ocean of salt water. Going from south to north, the length of each mountain is one tenth that of the previous mountain, but the height of them all is the same.

 

PURPORT

 

In this regard, Madhvacarya quotes the following verses from the Brahmanda Purana:

 

yatha bhagavate tuktam

bhauvanam kosa-laksanam

tasyavirodhato yojyam

anya-granthantare sthitam

 

mandode puranam caiva

vyatyasam ksira-sagare

rahu-soma-ravinam ca

mandalad dvi-gunoktitam

vinaiva sarvam unneyam

yojanabhedato 'tra tu

 

It appears from these verses that aside from the sun and moon, there is an invisible planet called Rahu. The movements of Rahu cause both solar and lunar eclipses. We suggest that the modern expeditions attempting to reach the moon are mistakenly going to Rahu.

SB 5.16.8