The Moon is further than the Sun!

[Kulapavana]

 

Our shastra is THE weapon. What need is there for mundane sciences?

 

sometimes these mundane sciences also help us to better understand and appreciate shastra. in the right hands science can be used for preaching. we Vaishnavas are not Luddites. Vedic civilization of old was extremely advanced both materially and spiritually. Vedic cities covered many square miles and were designed based on mundane sciences as well. read about it before you make such statements.

 

the conflict between mundane science and Krsna consciousness is created only by your own immature understanding.

[Guest guest]

 

I know all about the ASStral plane.

It's a plane full of asses who think they know more about the universe than the great mystics and masters who can travel around the universe at will without any airplane.

 

The Moon is a heavenly planet. It's not a dust bowl full of rocks.

 

The Moon is a heavenly planet on a HIGHER Plane. With the higest powered telescope you will not see any heavenly beings on the moon. But if one were to travel in their subtle body to the Moon, they would see heavenly beings because they would be on the Higher plane of the Moon (which vibrates at another frequency than our plane).

 

The SB is talking about planes. Unfortunately there are some people who do not know about the spiritual planes, and take everything as speaking about this physical plane - and thus all the confusion in calculations and distances.

 

I am reminded of the Mormon Christians, who believe God lives on a planet called Kolob in THIS physical universe. They know very little about the spiritual planes, so this is their confusion, when reading about planets in their scriptures. Sadly, it appears some Hare Krishnas have the same problem as the Mormons. Next ignorant Hare Krishnas will be stating Vaikuntha is a planet on the far reaches of this Universe.

[theist]

What could be a "mundane" science to a Krsna conscious person? He studies biology and he sees Krsna's hand at every step of every unfolding biological process before him. He studies astronomy and appreciation for the magnitude of Krsna's glorious cosmic manifestion grows within him. Same for the artist, poet, sculpter or architech.

 

The only thing mundane is a consciousness that is not aware of Krsna.

[Guest guest]

What you call science is actually nescience.

 

Bhakti is the only real science.

The science of immortality, that is real science.

 

The science that allows man to create bombs that can destroy the world is not science.

 

Sending morons into space with a good supply of instant BIG MACS to eat is NOT science.

 

Petroleum based society is not science.

These are all nescience - not science.

 

Maybe we can conquer the MOON and open a McDonalds there?

[theist]

 

What you call science is actually nescience.

 

Bhakti is the only real science.

The science of immortality, that is real science.

 

The science that allows man to create bombs that can destroy the world is not science.

 

Sending morons into space with a good supply of instant BIG MACS to eat is NOT science.

 

Petroleum based society is not science.

These are all nescience - not science.

 

Maybe we can conquer the MOON and open a McDonalds there?

 

First go to a dictionary and look up the definition of science and nescience.

 

Think of it like this. A devotee in a human form uses his eyes to see with. An atheist does the same. The difference is the devotee sees how everything is linked up to Krsna the atheist does not. The devotee has spiritual vision even through his so-called material eyes.

 

Now consider a telescope. A telescope is an extension for the human eyes to see light and form from much farther away. When a Krsna conscious person uses a telescope he will also see much further also just like the atheist. BUT the difference is HE WILL ALSO SEE KRSNA AND HIS ENERGIES.

 

Now go do your homework and look up science and nescience.

 

I'm done with you so if you still don't get it then go try to walk off the edge of this flat earth and see if you can manage it.

[Guest guest]

 

The chronological order in which people all over the world refer to the days of the week--Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday--corresponds to the Vedic order of the planets and thus circumstantiates the Vedic version. Apart from this, when the Lord appeared the planets and stars became situated very auspiciously, according to astrological calculations, to celebrate the birth of the Lord.

 

Doesn't the week start on Monday? And isn't Sunday necessarily the last or seventh day of the week, being the day when, according to Bible (hehe) "God rested from His work" of creating the world?

[Guest guest]

 

Doesn't the week start on Monday? And isn't Sunday necessarily the last or seventh day of the week, being the day when, according to Bible (hehe) "God rested from His work" of creating the world?

 

yes, that argument is about just as solid as the one where Moon probes land on Rahu...

[Guest guest]

 

Doesn't the week start on Monday? And isn't Sunday necessarily the last or seventh day of the week, being the day when, according to Bible (hehe) "God rested from His work" of creating the world?

 

 

 

The Bible clearly makes the Sabbath the last day of the week, but does not share how that corresponds to our 7 day week. Yet through extra-biblical sources it is possible to determine that the Sabbath at the time of Christ corresponds to our current 'Saturday.' Therefore it is common Jewish and Christian practice to regard Sunday as the first day of the week (as is also evident from the Portuguese names for the week days). However, the fact that, for example, Russian uses the name "second" for Tuesday, indicates that some nations regard Monday as the first day.

 

In international standard ISO-8601 the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) has decreed that Monday shall be the first day of the week.

[Guest guest]

I agree with what this quest writes. We can't take some letter that Srila Prabhupada wrote to his disciple who had trouble accepting what was written in the Sastra and use that as a referece. Everything we need to know is in the books written by Srila Prabhupada and explained by the current Acaryas.

 

 

So, we end up with some letter from Srila Prabhupada to a neophyte devotee who cannot accept the truth given in shastra and use that to discredt what Prabhupada wrote in shastra?

 

Prabhupada saw that this neoophyte devotee could not accept the authoritative truth of the Bhagavatam, so he tried to reduce his confusion by telling him to think of it as allegorical if he could not accept it literally.

 

The Bhagavatam is not book of allegorical stories.

 

It is real knowledge.

 

What Srila Prabhupada said in a letter to a confused neophyte disciple COULD NEVER AND SHOULD NEVER be used to try and negate what Srila Prabhupada wrote in the shastra.

 

the shastra is SHASTRA.

 

The letter was a compromise to try and string along a neophyte who could not accept the Bhagavat siddhanta.

[Guest guest]

How is it possible that you cannot see the ocean of milk? Here's why ... your eyes are so imperfect that you cannot even see what's closest to the eyes ... your eye lashes! And you wan't to see oceans of milk with these imperfect eyes. That's why it's not possible!

 

 

When you are sitting on your high horse and mocking fools who think the earth is round (you know it is flat because you read that fact with your material eyes), did you ever wonder how it is possible to fly in a plane going westwards from New York to LA and Delhi, then on to London and back to New York?

 

How is that possible?

 

The scripures say that beyond the ocean of salt water there are other oceans - liquor and milk etc. How is it possible that you can fly from London to London and not see an ocean of milk?

 

Maybe the scriptues are telling us some spiritual lessons in the form of allegories. That is the opinion of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Srila Prabhupada also said so:

<b>

Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King Puranjana. Just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations.</b>

 

When someone is sitting on their high horse and feeling righteous indignation because the ignorant fools refuse to accept the Absolute Truth as you conceive it (these #!$# fools think the world is round!!), it does make mister high horse feel pretty high and mighty doesn't it?

[Guest guest]

 

What you call science is actually nescience.

 

Bhakti is the only real science.

The science of immortality, that is real science.

 

The science that allows man to create bombs that can destroy the world is not science.

 

Sending morons into space with a good supply of instant BIG MACS to eat is NOT science.

 

Petroleum based society is not science.

These are all nescience - not science.

 

Maybe we can conquer the MOON and open a McDonalds there?

 

what a person eats has nothing to do with this moon issue. A vegetarian could be totally ignorant in astronomy (your posts reflect this), and a meat-eater could know a lot of information about astronomy.

 

Our diets do not have anything to do with what we can know as far as "material" knowledge or abilities. A meat-eater can be great at sports, or singing, or any physical activity, while a vegetatian may be a horrible an athlete, or a horrible singer, or horrible at mathematics.

 

Meat-eating does not mean a person is not able to count, sing, use a telescope, or use their physical parts, like their eyes, ears, and voice to participate in and observe this material world..

 

you're just being silly and unreasonable.

[gHari]

Well, it's not really unreasonable given the premise "Bhakti is the only real science". Perhaps the word 'science' could better be 'knowledge' or 'intelligence'. There are many physical sciences each dealing with a portion of the enjoyable world. I think the poster was seeing the puffed-up King with a burger in his mouth as laughable to a truly regal vaishnava.

 

Again it boils down to 'how' and 'why'. Science can only know the 'how'. They often look foolish when they presume to speculate about the 'why'. It is another organ that knows the 'why', the brain is just not qualified.

 

Science not guided by religion is like a child who has mastered arithmetic but has no idea where to use these skills.

[Guest guest]

and I contend that the Vedic knowledge is not primitive ignorance and that the great sages of Vedic knowledge were correct and that the foolish material scientists of this age are in darkness about the universe.

 

those who presume to insinuate that the Bhagavatam is primitive superstion and that modern scientists have more knowledge about the universe are very misguided and foolish as are the scientists they put their faith in.

 

As Srila Prabhupada has already explained, the Moon missions were landing on Rahu.

I have firm faith in that.

The superstitions are the unscientific speculations that modern scientists try to pass off as real knowledge.

 

The universe is a great mystery and is full of wonders we cannot imagine.

The Vedic sages did not acquire Vedic knowledge through sense perception or telescopes.

 

To challenge the Vedic cosmology is to challenge the very knowledge given by the Supreme Lord Vishnu.

 

Vedic cosmology is not an exploration of the universe through dull sense perception. It is an understanding of the universe as revealed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

[Guest guest]

Basically, the authority for the scientific calculation of the distance to the Moon comes from NASA.

All the followers of science are putting there faith in NASA.

 

I have seen footage of these "scientists" all setting at their primitive computers of the 60s and listening to the ASStronauts in space.

 

All these guys were setting around like idiots puffing on cigarettes and drinking coffee.

Then they would go have a hamburger for lunch and come back to more cigarettes and coffee.

 

These are the guys that you believers in science are following and putting your faith in.

 

Personally, I think it is ludicrous to put an ounce of faith in anything these buffoons have to say.

 

When president Kennedy ordered that the USA had to put a man safely on the Moon and bring him back, all the scientists were saying "impossible".

 

So, the orders of some politician made the "impossible" possible?

LOOK OUT RAHU >>>>>>>>>>>>> HERE WE COME!!!!!!! >>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 5.24.2

 

yad adas taraṇer maṇḍalaḿ pratapatas tad vistarato yojanāyutam ācakṣate dvādaśa-sahasraḿ somasya trayodaśa-sahasraḿ rāhor yaḥ parvaṇi tad-vyavadhāna-kṛd vairānubandhaḥ sūryā-candramasāv abhidhāvati

 

SYNONYMS

 

yat — which; adaḥ — that; taraṇeḥ — of the sun; maṇḍalam — globe; pratapataḥ — which is always distributing heat; tat — that; vistarataḥ — in terms of width; yojana — a distance of eight miles; ayutam — ten thousand; ācakṣate — they estimate; dvādaśa-sahasram — 20,000 yojanas (160,000 miles); somasya — of the moon; trayodaśa — thirty; sahasram — one thousand; rāhoḥ — of the planet Rāhu; yaḥ — which; parvaṇi — on occasion; tat-vyavadhāna-kṛt — who created an obstruction to the sun and moon at the time of the distribution of nectar; vaira-anubandhaḥ — whose intentions are inimical; sūryā — the sun; candramasau — and the moon; abhidhāvati — runs after them on the full-moon night and the dark-moon day.

 

TRANSLATION

 

The sun globe, which is a source of heat, extends for 10,000 yojanas [80,000 miles]. The moon extends for 20,000 yojanas [160,000 miles], and Rāhu extends for 30,000 yojanas [240,000 miles]. Formerly, when nectar was being distributed, Rāhu tried to create dissension between the sun and moon by interposing himself between them. Rāhu is inimical toward both the sun and the moon, and therefore he always tries to cover the sunshine and moonshine on the dark-moon day and full-moon night.

 

PURPORT

 

As stated herein, the sun extends for 10,000 yojanas, and the moon extends for twice that, or 20,000 yojanas. The word dvādaśa should be understood to mean twice as much as ten, or twenty. In the opinion of Vijayadhvaja, the extent of Rāhu should be twice that of the moon, or text of the Bhāgavatam, Vijayadhvaja cites the following quotation concerning Rāhu; rāhu-soma-ravīṇāḿ tu maṇḍalā dvi-guṇoktitām. This means that Rāhu is twice as large as the moon, which is twice as large as the sun. This is the conclusion of the commentator Vijayadhvaja.

[Guest guest]

 

Rāhu extends for 30,000 yojanas [240,000 miles]

 

It's a little curious here that Rahu "extends" about the same distance that the scientists say that the "Moon" is from Earth.

 

The previous verse says "ācakṣate — they estimate", these planets in this way.

[Jugg]

Srila Prabupada: "The materialist, however, is simply concerned with this mortal life, which can be finished at any moment. Furthermore, as this body will die, so the entire universe, this gigantic material body, will be annihilated, and whether we are fortunate or unfortunate, on this planet or another planet, everything will be finished. Why then are we wasting our time trying to go to a planet where everything will be finished? We should try to go to Krsnaloka. This is spiritual science; we must try to understand it, and, after understanding it ourselves, we should preach this message to the whole world. Everyone is in darkness. Although people have no knowledge, they are very proud. But it is not advancement of knowledge to go to the moon after ten years of effort and take a rock and come back. The space travelers are very proud: "Oh, I have touched it." But what have they gained? Even if we were able to live there, it would not be for long. It will all be destroyed in the end.

Try to find that planet from which one will never return, where there is eternal life, and where one can dance with Krsna. This is the meaning of Krsna consciousness. Take this movement seriously, for Krsna consciousness gives one a chance to reach Krsna and to dance with Him eternally. From Vedic literature we understand that this material world is a manifestation of only one fourth of the complete creation of God. The three-fourths portion of God's creation is the spiritual world. That we find in Bhagavad-gita. Krsna says, "This material world is but a fractional part of the whole." If we look as far as we can see--up to the sky--our vision is still confined within only one universe, and there are unlimited universes clustered together within what is called the material world. But beyond those clusters of unlimited numbers of universes is the spiritual sky, which is also mentioned in Bhagavad-gita, where the Lord says that beyond the material world is another nature, which is eternal."

 

 

sometimes these mundane sciences also help us to better understand and appreciate shastra. in the right hands science can be used for preaching. we Vaishnavas are not Luddites. Vedic civilization of old was extremely advanced both materially and spiritually. Vedic cities covered many square miles and were designed based on mundane sciences as well. read about it before you make such statements.

 

the conflict between mundane science and Krsna consciousness is created only by your own immature understanding.

[Jugg]

Material scientists have been trying for many years, and they will go on trying for one hundred or one thousand years more, but they will never reach any planet. Maybe by a scientific process one or two men can reach some planet, but that is not the general process. The generally accepted process for transferral to other planets is the practice of the yoga system or the jnana system. The bhakti system, however, is not meant for transferral to any material planet. Those who engage in the devotional service of Krsna, or the Supreme Lord, are not interested in any of the planets of this material world because they know that no matter to which planet one elevates himself, he will still find the four principles of material existence there nonetheless. On some planets the duration of life is much longer than on this earth, but death is there. Those who are Krsna conscious, however, transcend this material life of birth, death, disease and old age.

Spiritual life means release from this botheration and misery. Those who are intelligent, therefore, do not try to elevate themselves to any planet of this material world. Men are trying to reach the moon, and although it is very difficult to gain entrance to that planet, if we do gain entrance the period of our lives will be enhanced. Of course, that does not apply to life in this body. If we were to enter the moon with this body, instant death would be certain.

When one enters into a planetary system, he must have a suitable body for that planet. Every planet is inhabited by living entities with bodies suitable for that planet. For instance, we can enter the water in this body, but we cannot live there. We may stay there fifteen or sixteen hours, or maybe twenty-four hours, but that's all.

[Jugg]

 

If the yogi is inquisitive to see the moon, he can say, "Ah, let me see what the moon is like. Then I shall transfer myself to higher planets," just like travelers who go to Europe, California, Canada, or other countries on earth. One can transfer oneself to many planets by this yoga system, but anywhere he goes he will find visa systems and customs systems. To go to other planets, one must be qualified.

 

[Guest guest]

 

Basically, the authority for the scientific calculation of the distance to the Moon comes from NASA.

All the followers of science are putting there faith in NASA.

 

That is false. Astronomers in ancient times already knew the moon was closer than the sun. A greek scientist for example even correctly identified the distance of the moon several thousand yrs ago.

 

many people have watched a solar eclipse.

 

you have absolutely no facts to present, just rhetoric. where is your scientific research to show NASA is wrong?

 

please don't act like you are representing the oldest tradition, of science (Sanatana Dharma).

 

Show us a yogi or enlightened master who teaches the sun is closer to the earth? Many yogis and adepts have visited the moon in their astral body. Some have even visited the moons of Jupiter and other planets. I've heard about beings who live on one of the moons of Jupiter, from those who have been there.

 

Real Yogis have direct experience of the universe in their astral travels. They know far more than NASA. But they do not state the physical moon is farther away than the sun. Only (some) Hare Krishnas are teaching this. Please don't say this is a Hindu/Vedic belief, when most Vedantists have enough metaphysical knowledge to know the difference between the astral plane and the physical universe.

[Guest guest]

 

That is false. Astronomers in ancient times already knew the moon was closer than the sun. A greek scientist for example even correctly identified the distance of the moon several thousand yrs ago.

 

many people have watched a solar eclipse.

 

you have absolutely no facts to present, just rhetoric. where is your scientific research to show NASA is wrong?

 

please don't act like you are representing the oldest tradition, of science (Sanatana Dharma).

 

Show us a yogi or enlightened master who teaches the sun is closer to the earth? Many yogis and adepts have visited the moon in their astral body. Some have even visited the moons of Jupiter and other planets. I've heard about beings who live on one of the moons of Jupiter, from those who have been there.

 

Real Yogis have direct experience of the universe in their astral travels. They know far more than NASA. But they do not state the physical moon is farther away than the sun. Only (some) Hare Krishnas are teaching this. Please don't say this is a Hindu/Vedic belief, when most Vedantists have enough metaphysical knowledge to know the difference between the astral plane and the physical universe.

 

 

I have already shown in the purport that Vijayadwaja confirms that the Moon extends twice as far as the Sun.

You say it is not Vedic?

Vaishnava acharyas have confirmed what is in the Bhagavatam.

 

You say no yogi says that?

Sukadeva was not a yogi?

Madhvacarya was not a yogi?

Vijayadwaja was not a yogi?

Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati was not a yogi?

Srila Prabhupada was not a yogi?

 

Your yogis are these modern faker who don't anything except make believe.

 

The real yogis accept that the Moon extends twice as far as the Sun.

Bhogi-yogis don't have any factual knowledge of the universe.

[Guest guest]

 

I have already shown in the purport that Vijayadwaja confirms that the Moon extends twice as far as the Sun.

You say it is not Vedic?

 

This is not the physical moon they were speaking of. Anyone can view a solar-eclipse and see the moon covers the sun on occasion - but people in their astral bodies can visit the spiritual worlds, of which the Vedic writings describe.

 

 

Your yogis are these modern faker who don't anything except make believe.

 

 

Calling himalayan masters fakers is offensive. You have no idea what abilities the REAL siddhas have. They can as easily visit the moon, as you could walk out your front door.

 

 

Bhogi-yogis don't have any factual knowledge of the universe.

 

Where is your factual knowledge? all you present is rhetoric, not one shred of scientific evidence to back up your claims.

 

You know there are eskimos who believe wholeheartedly that this world is floating on the back of a gigantic seal. Of course any sane person, knows that this is a mythological belief, not factual knowledge. But to them it's true, because their sacred legends say so.

 

If the literal, physical moon, were closer to the earth, anyone could buy a telescope and see that the moon's distance is further; but rather telescopes show us the opposite. It's you who are denying the plain facts, that both Yogis, Scientists and telescopes confirm.

 

I think it's time for you to go buy a telescope, and look for yourself. or better yet, learn to travel in your subtle body directly to the moon.. then you will see firsthand that the life on the moon is of another dimension and this physical universe is a shadow of the higher vibrational levels. Once you experience the other dimensions, you'll see how foolish arguments about measurements in this dimension are.

[Guest guest]

 

Real Yogis have direct experience of the universe in their astral travels.

 

Are you suggesting that Srila Prabhupada was not a "real yogi?" A pure devotee of Krsna has access to all mystical perfections. A pure devotee also has pure vision, and sees through the eyes of sastra, "sastra-caksus," which is far superiour to seeing via astral senses.

 

 

but people in their astral bodies can visit the spiritual worlds, of which the Vedic writings describe.

 

Are you sure about this? Are you suggesting that astral travellers can visit Vaikuntha?

 

Many people mistake astral travel as being something "spiritual." The astral body is not a spiritual body. It is a subtle body, with subtle senses, and those senses are subject to the four material defects.

[Guest guest]

 

Are you sure about this? Are you suggesting that astral travellers can visit Vaikuntha?

 

No.. but they can visit the astral plane, and the moon has an astral as well as physical level. Are you aware of the different dimensional levels besides the physical plane? You may not be, but the vedic cosmologists were aware of these different dimensions.

 

 

Many people mistake astral travel as being something "spiritual." The astral body is not a spiritual body. It is a subtle body, with subtle senses, and those senses are subject to the four material defects.

 

Right, the astral body is a subtle body, not a physical body. When we say it is a spiritual body, we mean it is a subtle (non-physical) body, one of our spiritual bodies. Beyond the astral body is the causal body, and then we have our eternal soul body.

 

The point is that the moon appears to EVERYONE the same - whether one astral travels to the moon, or looks thru a telescope lense - the moon always shows itself to be CLOSER to the earth on this physical universe. Therefore, there is no reason to believe otherwise, when the facts all point to the moon being closer. Unless you have some scientific evidence that can prove the moon is closer, your moon-theories can not be shown to be fact, and they hold as much scientific weight as the eskimo who says the world is floating on the back of a gigantic seal.

[Guest guest]

 

No.. but they can visit the astral plane, and the moon has an astral as well as physical level.

 

Well, of course. That's just common sense. But you originally said, and I quote: "Real Yogis have direct experience of the universe in their astral travels." You did not reply to my question as to whether you considered Srila Prabhupada to be a "real yogi."

 

 

Are you aware of the different dimensional levels besides the physical plane? You may not be, but the vedic cosmologists were aware of these different dimensions.

 

Yes, I am quite aware. This isn't rocket science we're talking about here. Anyway, you have cleverly dodged my questions with irrelevant questions of your own.

 

 

Right, the astral body is a subtle body, not a physical body. When we say it is a spiritual body, we mean it is a subtle (non-physical) body, one of our spiritual bodies.

 

From this statement, it appears that you are still confusing the subtle body with the spiritual body. When we speak of a subtle body, we are speaking of a subtle material body, not a subtle spiritual body.

 

 

The point is that the moon appears to EVERYONE the same

 

How can you make such an absolute statement such as this? Have you spoken with EVERYONE? Have you spoken with the Demigods lately? Do you know how the moon appears to Them? Have you considered the possibility that They control how the conditioned souls perceive the Universe through the gross and subtle senses?