Realisation???

[Guest guest]

Sri Sadanandji said

<<<Ignoring the negatives of others>>>

<<<If I start looking at the Lord in everything or in every person I encounter,

then my vision is automatically in the positives than negatives.>>>>>

Sri Lakshmiji said

<<<I notice that the critic in me comes to the forefront>>>>

I have a question:

Why do we look at the negatives of others or why are we critical of others? What makes us to do so? We do not do so when it comes to the creation other than human beings?

We accept a tiger as a tiger, and we do not see any negative or positive side in it. We see all the natural events, whether an earthquake, a tsunami, etc. but we are not critical about that. That is the play of nature, and we accept that.

Advaita says creation is creator itself, and we are supposed, (Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahma), to accept and look at the entire creation as creator rather it is the creator only that appears as the entire creation?

However, we are critical and we look for the negatives (dosha darshanam) of others. What bothers one to do so? There must be a some valid reason for that.

Are we trying to make one line longer by making the other line shorter!?

Hari Om

 

 

R. S. Mani

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, "mahadevadvaita"

<mahadevadvaita wrote:

>

> > Pujya Swamiji Dayanandji used to say - meet the person, with

whom

> you have a problem in relatioship, every day for 48 days and offer

> something to him /her. May be even just a flower. The anger,

animosity

> and hatred will disappear. I tried this as an experiment. It

worked

> wonders with the person with whom I had a problem for 10 years.

> >

>

> Namaste, Is there any prescription for indifference ? Sometimes I

feel

> that I have neither love nor animosity/hatred towards a person. Is

it

> called coldness or detachment or indifference ? I don't know - the

> line seems to get blurred. Anybody has insights ?

>

> regards,

> Om Namah Sivaya

>

 

 

Namaste,

 

The Swami's prescription is very nice.

Regarding your question, it would be nice to leave the situation as

it is and develop it to cover everything else that causes bondage in

the world. It is called 'udaasiina bhaava' or 'Audaasiinyam'. It

is something to be cultivated. The shastra books give the example

of a person's attitude to the pebbles, grass, etc. on the wayside

while walking. One has neither attachment nor aversion towards

them. The Gita calls the Gunaatita (Ch.14) as one who has this

attitude. At the same time, it is not being insensitive to the

environment. When there is a need to help someone and if that has

to come from me at that situation, my doing what is apt, without

attachment, would constitute the ideal behaviour. Thus,

indifference and not being insensitive can coexist in a person. The

ideal jivanmukta's attitude is that. I can remember the several

instances in the life of Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal. When

he walks he would not look this side or that, not exchange a glance

or smile with anyone. If someone approaches him for some

clarification or advice, he would then only stop, listen, offer the

solution and proceed on his way.

 

Warm regards,

subbu

[Guest guest]

The scriptures teach

several methods to do this. The undercurrent of all these methods

is: Dosha darshana abhyasa, that is, perception of the faults in the

body-mind complex. The final verdict of the scriptures is:

attachment to the body-mind will cease only when one is convinced of

the faults that are abounding in them. And to gain this conviction

one must engage in dispassionate discrimination. The works

like 'sarva vedanta siddhanta sara sangraha', vivekachudamani, etc.

contain many verses dealing with this. For instance, there is this

Tamil verse, apparently by a Siddhar:

 

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

I've been coming across two different perspective with regard to

*darshana* in advaita...Some scholars in advaita say everything is brahman

(they quote shruti vAkya sarvaM khalvidaM brahma, IshAvAsyaM idaM sarvaM

etc. ) so dehAdi upAdhi-s, wife, kids, relations etc. etc. attached to it

also should be treated as our svarUpa, so in this case *dukha, dOshAnu

darshanaM does not come into the picture at all... !! whereas, another one,

quoting some other shruti vAkya (such as nEti nEti, achintya, arUpa,

niravayava, astUla, anaNu, sarvEndriya vivarjita, sarvaguNAbhAsa etc.etc.)

& says, brahman is nirvikAri, nirvishEsha & no word can explain this brahma

tattva (apramEya) hence we have to do AtmAnAtma or nityAnitya vastu vivEka,

negate the anAtma vastu, get rid of our wrong identification with dEhAtma

buddhi & intuitively realise our svarUpa is dehAtIta, kAlAtIta, upAdhi

rahita & nirvishEsha Atman....can we live happily by thinking this body,

mind, intellect, this multi coloured world, my wife, my children are all

brahman & *enjoy* it like anything or should I develop vairAgya by

realising the fact that these attachments are temporary & go away one fine

day!!! which one of these perspectives is in line with traditional

teaching of advaita...kindly clarify. I think shankara has recommended the

later & advised sarvasanga parityAga & saNyAsa to persue Atma jnAna.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Subbiji Wrote:

I can remember the several instances in the life of Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swamigal. When he walks he would not look this side or that, not exchange a glance or smile with anyone. If someone approaches him for some

clarification or advice, he would then only stop, listen, offer the

solution and proceed on his way.

 

Namaste Subbuji,

Yes the above is true. I have also seen other Mahatmas doing the same. But the question is " Can I adapt this in my daily life? what should I do to bring in this lifestyle?

He was a sannayasi, mutt - adhipati, a yogi whose life janma was taken for this purpose and he had achieved.

I was living in the Gurukulam for four years . This was community living. I have been living in a joint family with 20 people at home for 35 years now. This is difficult to apply for a gRhastha. Even in the Gurukula lifestyle, may be we could take a step or two perhaps, since the environment was conducive and we were not doing anything else other than the sAdhana of Vedantic study.

But in the family environment??????? most of the life - formulae lie external. Every person is an individual, who thinks, what ever he/she is doing or speaking is the right thing? With the joint family system breaking apart, ACCOMODATION as a value, exists only in the lips of school teachers, a few elderly people and Acharya's lives its reflected.

We do not know what for, when, where, why and how people can explode emotionally. What triggers???? Unless there is emotional maturity, vedantic study will stay in the lips, wont even enter the throat, not to speak of the heart.

Aham Brahmasmi stays as aham Brahmasmi in the books and in the teachers speaking in the akasha. Isvara stays as an idol in the temples, and advaita is only in the classroom - purnoham, Anandoham, satchidAnandarUpoham, the teachers says this and yes, true I am all these,only in the vedanta class provided my body, mind, emotions and intellect grace me. The minute I come out of the class and wear my slippers the dvaita jagat takes over.

Even in a serious vedanta study classroom situation some students would not even look at some of their fellowstudents, refuse to sit next to them, may be they would grunt or roar or scream or may be even go to the extant of hitting them. This can happen today in any given classroom situation irrespective of subject age, class, caste, gender, creed etc.

"Advaita teaching is - there is no competition. Brahman is only one vastu.."

What about the dining hall? All the likes and dislikes, the insecure feeling that one may get/not get the dishes in sufficient quantities, so one can see the rush and push.

Even at the temple, the behaviour is no different.

In a Vedanta group discussion we all agree only to differ.

sarvam khalu idam brahma? stays as a mahAvakya!

These may sound very mundane and not talking high funda, but its all about life and living. Every moment of living, pratipakshabhAvana has to be cultivated consciously and religiously, if Brahma vidya has to be assimilated..

Quoting katha upanishad I-II-7

shravanAyApi bahubhiryo na labhyah

shRnvantopi bahavo yam na vidhyuh

Ascaryo vakttA kushalosya labdhA

Ascaryo jnAtA kushalnushishtah.

Meaning:

Of the Self many are not even able to hear; though many may hear, do not comprhend; As the mind is not ready to receive. Moreover, Its expounder, just one among the several is a wonder himself. Similarly, even after hearing of the Self, just one among many who is proficient, becomes Its attainer, for the knower of It, who is instructed by an able teacher is a wonder himself.

H.H Shri Chandrasekhara Bharati Swamigal is one such wonder.

Gita ch 2-29

Ascharyavat pasyati kascidenam aswcaryavadvadati tathaivacAnyah

Ascaryavatcainamanyah shRNoti sRutvApyenam veda na caiva kascit.

Meaning:

One who beholds/looks upon this Self as a marvel/wonder and so too another speaks of this as a wonder. Yet another hears of this as a marvel and even after hearing no one understands this.

My svAdhyAya is only the prasthAna thryam and Shankara Bhashyam, as I feel I still have to spend more time with them before I explore other Advaitic texts.

I consider my self blessed to be a member of this group. By actively participating I am able to assimilate the teaching.

om namo narayanaya

Lakshmi Muthuswamy

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Subbu,

 

> ...

> Again, visiting hospitals, especially the burns ward, and seeing for

> ourselves the pain, the suffering, the dirty smell of the wards, the

> soiling of beds, etc. will generate a feeling of disgust for the

> body. The problems of the ego, raga, dvesha, etc. also have to be

> dealt with by resorting to such discrimination.

> ...

 

I would beg to differ with this recommendation. 'sharIra mAdhyam khalu

dharma sAdhanam". The body is the medium available with us to do what we

are here for. sharIra, though gross, is the abode of the lord --

 

"AtmAtvam, girijAmatih sahacharA prAnah sharIram griham

pUja tE vishayOpa bhOga rachanA nidrA samAdhisthithih

sanchArah padayOpradakshinavidhir sthOtrAni sarvAgirO

yadyat karma karOmi tadyadakhilam shambhOtavArAdhanam"

 

The disgust with the body itself could become an obsession. As you

yourself pointed out earlier, a feeling of indifference (AudAsInya)

seems to be much more in the realm of possibility.

 

Best regards,

Ramachandra

[Guest guest]

>bhaskar.yr (AT) in (DOT) abb.com

 

>..can we live happily by thinking this body,

>mind, intellect, this multi coloured world, my wife, my children are all

>brahman & *enjoy* it like anything or should I develop vairAgya by

>realising the fact that these attachments are temporary & go away one fine

>day!!! which one of these perspectives is in line with traditional

>teaching of advaita...kindly clarify.

 

Bhaskarji

 

PraNAms.

 

Let me first claim ignorance of what traditional advaita says. Let us

examine the facts first. Being a scientist all my life, I give emphasis

for the nature of the truth and how I can assimilate that truth.

If truth is Brahman and I am that Brahman, then SAdhana is only a processes

is purification of the mind or acquiring the required qualifications to know

the truth. If truth is somewhere and I have to go there then obviously

appropriate SAdhana is required. Being advaitin, the truth cannot be

anywhere and can only be everywhere and the knowledge alone is the means of

assimilating the truth, then the problem is well defined and solution is

also clear.

 

Our attachments and distractions are due to the pressure of vasanaas, and

only way to purify is to neutralize the vAsanas, by appropriate yoga, then

the path is very clear.

 

The choices you have raised, if you examine carefully are not mutually

exclusive. The second one that you mentioned as vairaagya becomes a

prerequisite for the first one that is recognition that everything is

Brahman - the body, mind intellect etc and therefore enjoy as they are.

 

The problem comes when you are able to diver the mind to the higher reality

that is underlying all our relations since that requires ruthless vairaagya,

avoiding physical environments that enhance our attachments therefore is

helpful. In that sense sanyaasa is nothing but vairaagya which cannot be

easily obtained unless we physically also renounce the environments that is

likely to enhance our attachments and vasanaas.

 

>From the point of the fact that what is needed is sanyaasa or mental

detachments from the names and forms in order gain the ability 'to see' the

substantive Brahman, the external sanyaasa could help in attaining that. It

is not guaranteed but it could help provided we use that opportunity to

redirect the mind to higher.

 

Having said all that, I must say after my retirement I am beginning to

realize the need for giving up the environments which cannot be avoided in

obligatory relationships and one cannot give up unless one takes the

external sanyaasa. I sometimes wonder why my father chose this particular

name for me.

 

I personally that external sanyaasa is not necessary but helpful,

and it may be necessary catalyst to facilitate nidhidhyAsana.

 

 

>I think shankara has recommended the

>later & advised sarvasanga parityAga & saNyAsa to persue Atma jnAna.

 

The statement the way you put it is correct - it is recommended - and not

insisted.

 

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani wrote:

>

> Sri Sadanandji said

> <<<Ignoring the negatives of others>>>

> <<<If I start looking at the Lord in everything or in every person

I encounter,

> then my vision is automatically in the positives than negatives.>>>>>

> Sri Lakshmiji said

> <<<I notice that the critic in me comes to the forefront>>>>

> I have a question:

> Why do we look at the negatives of others or why are we critical

of others? What makes us to do so? We do not do so when it comes to

the creation other than human beings?

 

Namaste,

 

Some thoughts on this theme:

 

The 'rascal' ego has a lot of tricks up its sleeve(s)! The

finding of faults in others is in fact a clever decoy to boost one's

own superiority in that particular quality. It is the dominance of the

rajo - tamo guNa-s, hiding the 'beam in one's own eye' and 'magnifying

the mote in another's' [AND vice versa!].

 

As one's sattvik nature ripens, this view gradually subsides.

Faults are another name for 'AsurI sampat', and virtues are 'daivI

sampat'. For whatever we have of the latter, we need to thank the

Spirit for showering Its grace on us, and whatever we or others have

of the former, we need to seek the grace for its removal. As the

famous quotaion of John Bradford (16th cent.) goes: While seeing

convicts on their way to the gallows - "There but for the grace of God

goes John Bradford!"

 

If we wish to emulate the 'dhIratvam' of Kunti, may we pray for

that grace too! At the end of the Mahabharata war, Krishna aksed Kunti

what wish she would like fulfilled. Her reply was: " May I continue to

be blessed with all the calamities, so that I shall never ever fail

to remember you. "

 

At the end of the Commentary of the Gita, Jnaneshvar pleads for

this blessing (pasAyadAna) from his Guru and the Universal Spirit -

 

duritaa.nche timira jaavo

vishva svadharma-surye.n paaho |

jo je.n vaa.nchchhiila to te.n laaho

praaNijaata ||

 

May the darkness of ignorance leave the wicked,

May the whole world be envisioned in the Sun of Virtue;

May each one receive what is wished for,

Every living creature!

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder