Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 why do vaisnava diksa names only give das/dasi, and shaivites ananda in there name? for example, i got diksa from a shaiva tantric monk, and i got the name Govinda, if i had got the name in vaisnava diksa, it would been govinda das, how come? shaivites know that they are servents and still they have names like ananada on the end.. also, i talked to kadamba kanana swami, and he said my diksa isnt accepted in iskcon, shiva has His own spiritual paths, so why arent my diksa accepted, the tantric succession from wich i got my diksa is from shiva himself in the beginning any ideas on this? sincere answeres from reg. members please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 initiation only meen beginning, or indicates that sumthing new is happening.. true initiation is in the heart.. in western mystical schools initiation isnt that importnet.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 also, i talked to kadamba kanana swami, and he said my diksa isnt accepted in iskcon, shiva has His own spiritual paths, so why arent my diksa accepted, the tantric succession from wich i got my diksa is from shiva himself in the beginning Your initiation is accepted as a shaivite initiation, not as a Gaudiya initiation. It's like if I go to Shankaracharya Math, I shouldn't expect they will let me perform the puja in their temple, as I am not initiated in their line. Similary, if you aren't initiated in a Gaudiya line, there are some things that you may not be able to do in a Gaudiya temple. But bhakti is of course beyond initiation, so you can always cultivate devotion without any ritual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 in vaisnava school, what is the importants of initiation? i know what importents it has in western mystery schools, but it is not a most, it isnt even importnant for ones spiritual development Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 ramanuja stod on the temple and shout out his mantra he got from guru, and Srí Caitanya initiated all into the maha-mantra, arent then the will of Lord to stop all other secrecy and ceremonys of spirituality? of all elitism and such things? why do i need allowence from guru to chant Gods Name? or do guru give power to the mantra or sumthing? sorry for my english Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Mantra comes from the guru's heart. That is a living mantra. It's lived in his heart for long, and he'll transmit the potency of realizing the mantra-devate to you. sākṣataṁ gurur ādāya vāri śiṣyasya dakṣiṇe | kare'rpayed vadan mantro'yaṁ samo'stv āvayor iti || HBV 2.132 svasmāj jyotirmayīṁ vidyāṁ gacchantīṁ bhāvayed guruḥ | āgatāṁ bhāvayec chiṣyo dhanyo'smīti viśeṣataḥ || HBV 2.133 "The guru shall offer water to the disciple's right hand, saying 'May this mantra be equal for the two of us.' The guru shall meditate on great, effulgent knowledge arising of himself, meditating on its entrance into the disciple, who shall think, 'I have become blessed'." why do i need allowence from guru to chant Gods Name? All the other considerations aside, the bottom line here is, "Because such is God's will." How do we know? "Because he has made it known in the scriptures." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 the wise man and saints wrote the scriptures, right? and they have seen things we cannot, arent it so that they sumtimes speak in symbols and make things unto tales so less intelligent people can understand? mystics has always tried to give us knowledge and therefor they have spoken in symbolism to make us understand.. why are there always middle hands in form of priests, mullahs, bramhins and gurus? why couldnt one approche God directly? all religions always state that man need mediators to reach God, why is this? why couldnt i just sit down and ask God to teach me directly? why would He whant all kind of middle hands between me and Him? that diesnt make ones relationship sweet, that makes it dull and very formal.. these is sum of my thaughts, please dont take it as insults Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 People are of course free to follow the path they wish -- this is the freedom given to everyone. I, and others following the Gaudiya path, could certainly explain the merits of guru, but the prerequisite would be that you would be willing to, at least in theory, accept that it may be a very wonderful way of looking at things. But I think it's just common sense that one would seek guidance and shelter from those who are further on along the path. "Dull", "middle-man" and all that spans from having never felt overwhelming love and a desire to help from a senior practitioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 People are of course free to follow the path they wish -- this is the freedom given to everyone. I, and others following the Gaudiya path, could certainly explain the merits of guru, but the prerequisite would be that you would be willing to, at least in theory, accept that it may be a very wonderful way of looking at things. But I think it's just common sense that one would seek guidance and shelter from those who are further on along the path. "Dull", "middle-man" and all that spans from having never felt overwhelming love and a desire to help from a senior practitioner. i have a siksa guru in iskcon, i listen to him, but still i am equaly drwn to different schools of mystery, like the rose-cross order (rosenkreutz).. my problem is i have very difficult to feel anything, bodily feelings is almost none in me, im like a dead tree, well my body is.. and therefor i have problems feeling anything, against myself or others.. maybe its my karma or my bad childhood, dunno.. no one yet has been able to tell me why this is.. anyway, drifted away from the topic.. what is the vaisnava view on going directly to God and make Him my teacher? like many mystics, they go directly to God, they see different teachers as God reaching out.. is this "heretic" or what? no offence unto anybodys guru now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 That is, if you can go directly to God... You can always try. I take all the help I can get. Gaudiya Vaisnavas follow the path of bhakti, or the path of devotional love. This love is transfered from hearts to hearts. The seed of this love awakens upon hearing of the beauty of the love of Krishna's companions, and it is infused into the heart of the sadhaka by those, who embody this love in their hearts. Therefore, we view the development of affectionate relationships with advanced loving devotees as an integral path of our practice. God doesn't exist in vacuum. Otherwise, I recall reading Jiva Gosvami saying that God gives his grace not directly, but through those whom he loves -- his devotees. "Love me, love my dog" -- I think that's how Prabhupada put it in laymen's terms. Transformations are effected by people. Very rare is the soul who has (from a past life) what it takes to get directly in touch with God straight away. Of course, when the relationship develops and gains foothold in the sadhaka's heart, it's as direct as anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 can it be, that my guru hasnt manifested himself yet? because all works as my teacher, as u just did.. can guru be withou form, as i need that more? i can accept that more? so guru manifest himself as other person wisdom unto me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 can it be, that my guru hasnt manifested himself yet? because all works as my teacher, as u just did.. can guru be withou form, as i need that more? i can accept that more? so guru manifest himself as other person wisdom unto me? Guru-tattva manifests in countless ways. When your sukriti (devotional piety) ripens, a relationship with an advanced loving devotee will eventually awaken of its own accord -- as long as you keep the possibility open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Guru-tattva manifests in countless ways. When your sukriti (devotional piety) ripens, a relationship with an advanced loving devotee will eventually awaken of its own accord -- as long as you keep the possibility open. is it really all about sukriti? Isn't sukriti somewhat of a karma-kanda conception? Actually, sukriti has very little to do with anything in the age of Mahaprabhu and his ahaituku-kripa (causeless mercy). What happens nowadays is that someone without any piety or qualification just so happens to get the mercy of a Vaishnava and begins his spiritual life. Sukriti has some play in the field of religion, but mostly what brought most devotees into the connection with the mission of Lord Caitanya is simply causless mercy. So, just pray for the mercy of God. You don't even have to pray. The mercy of Mahaprabhu is so aggressive that it will seek you out, hunt you down and bless you with love of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 the idea of sukriti is that "I have done good, I am pious and religious and very devoted". that is not a good way of thinking when we want the full mercy of the Lord. better to feel that we have no pious credits, no sincerity and no qualifications. then we will get A REAL PURE DEVOTEE GURU. Or we can go on a guru shopping spree and try to find a guru in all the wrong places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 is it really all about sukriti?Isn't sukriti somewhat of a karma-kanda conception? No, that would be punya. Sukriti is altogether different, and permanent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 "So this is His special mercy upon me and I always think about this with gratitude to this exalted personality coming directly from Vaikuntha World and we had the great fortune to meet Him. I think that is the only credit on our part that we happened to meet Him by some "ajnata sukriti'' or unknown auspicious activities." - letter from Prabhupada about meeting his guru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Bhaktivinoda Thakur: "Is it chance, then, which brings Bhakti? No, Sukriti, or good work, is the prime moving principle. Good work is of two classes. One class, passing as morals, includes those works which bring virtue and aggrandizement. The other class of good work includes all acts which have a tendency to bring spiritual culture. This latter class of good work brings one in contact with a sincere Vaishnava, from whom one at the first imbibes Shraddha, or faith in spirit, and being then capable of receiving Bhakti, one obtains a flash of that principle from the Vaishnava who is the actual Guru of the man." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 This is derived from the following verse of Brihan-naradiya-purana (1.4.33), cited as Hari-bhakti-vilasa 10.279: bhaktis tu bhagavad-bhakta-saGgena parijAyate | sat-saGgaH prApyate pumbhiH sukRtaiH pUrva-saJcitaiH || "Bhakti arises through the company of the Lord's devotees; One attains the company of devotees as one's past pious merits (sukriti) accumulate." There are different varieties of sukRti there: those arising of karma, jnana and bhakti. Only the last variety of sukriti will bring about the company of bhagavat-bhaktas. What are such devotional pious merits, then? bhaktyA saJjAtayA bhaktyA; since only devotion brings about devotion, and since only in the company of sAdhus does one truly learn the purpose of devotion, initially such deeds are what we commonly know as ajJAta-sukRti, or unknowingly accrued merits. Such merits may be attained for example by circumambulating a temple without knowing the purpose of the building, by fasting on sacred days for another purpose, by acting as the indirect cause of a sAdhu's satisfaction, and so forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Guru-tattva manifests in countless ways. When your sukriti (devotional piety) ripens, a relationship with an advanced loving devotee will eventually awaken of its own accord -- as long as you keep the possibility open. so guru can manifest himself for me as all those whom teach me, and when the time is right, and when im ready, he will manifest himself as a human before me? can guru break my stoneheart and grant me the ability to feel then? because i dont feel anything at all.. i can sumtimes feel little devotion and love for God, but because i have none bodily feeling at all, i hold knowledge the highest, i can think but i cant feel.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Yes, you nailed it down right there. Exactly so. And please remember the sequence: It is not that <i>because people say he is a guru</i> this result should manifest, and that you should therefore take shelter of someone; rather, <i>because someone has manifest this result in you</i>, therefore he is the manifest guru come before you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 thnX for all answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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