Orthodox Jews Demand End to Zionist Atrocities in the Middle East

[Guest guest]

 

Don, Prabupada would never side with you on this, you obviously never knew him.

 

He would see the WHOLE picture unlike all the haters posting anti-Israel things. Don is simply adding balance, a larger scale view of things which the close minded ones seem to be having major difficulty accepting.

 

I like the Images you have posted Don.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

July 18, 2006: Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews joined

a Pro Palestinian Rally outside the Israeli Consulate,

New York City against the Zionist attacks on Lebanon.

 

Orthodox Jews Demand End to Zionist Atrocities in the Middle East

 

[...] The creation of the State of "Israel" came about through, the theft from, subjugation and oppression of, the Palestinian people.

 

[...]

 

The Rabbis stated, that the State of "Israel" will result in unending pain, suffering and bloodshed. May the Almighty protect His creations.

[...]

 

Zionism and the State of "Israel", is the main cause of the exacerbation of anti Semitism universally.

 

[...] We shall all witness soon the peaceful dismantlement of the Zionist State "Israel". May we merit seeing the day when all humanity will serve the Almighty in harmony and peace. Amen

 

http://www.nkusa.org

 

We shall all witness soon the peaceful dismantlement of the Zionist State "Israel".

Just see! So that is their solution? Sounds like they are on the same page as the islamists!?

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

[i first posted this two years ago]

 

Alas it's been long "published" -- and as suspected it falls more than somewhat short - the "Road Map" is seemingly unrealistic - FIRST; it's 'time-lines' aren't 'timely' enough - SECOND: there's the document's overt focus on the Palestinian's latest 'Uprising' - it thus places far too many of the responsibilities on the Palestinians - for the provocation, the violence, and - its end - before steps to resolution of the causative issues themselves - [the Road Map Plan avoids a delving 'deeper' into the underlying issues themselves!].

 

 

 

---- Thus the 'semi international' "Road MapPlan" does NOT outline in any detail its purposed [resolution] methods - nor even present 'suggestions' on how the parties are to going to deal with these issues - [really it's a plan - without a plan!] - all we are told is that 'later' in a projected "phase three" [in 2005] there will be convened - an "International Conference", to decide the issue of Jerusalem and 'final borders' for both States [just see the pointlessness of a Plan which speaks of 'final borders' which we already know are going to have to be [as far as possible] a non fragmented 50/50 cut - and that's it, that's all!?].

 

 

 

---- The "Road Map" Plan reads: "...a negotiated resolution on the status of Jerusalem that takes into account the political and religious concerns of both sides, and protects the religious interests of Jews, Christians, and Muslims worldwide...".

 

 

 

---- This Road Map is sounding like it's navigating into the general direction of a FAILED [in theory and practicality] U.N. Resolution - (#181) [drafted in 1947] - certainly not withstanding everyone's best intentions - an 'International Jerusalem' city-state will not be a workable 'Regional' entity!

 

 

 

---- A logical and fair solution - as outlined within our Peace Plan [in this string] suggests looking at these issues - within a timely manner - with a realistic regard to the Rights of ALL the peoples in THAT Region - i.e.: the Middle East Region - specifically, Rights of the the Middle East populations - to a 'peace and security' - certainly has precedent over ANY - "religious interests" [centered on the region] of 'others' residing "WORLDWIDE"! It seems a simple logical point?

 

 

 

---- Further the most important religious "interest" of - "...Jews, Christians, and Muslims worldwide..." - should be REAL PEACE for those living in the Region - otherwise 'what' is the meaning to their ideas of a far-away 'Holy Land'?

 

 

 

---- When looking into the past and future of these issues - we can see 'continuous adjustments' have been made by these parties [Palestine and Israel] to cope with each other - thus having at least 'that' as a positive commonality - here is a simple arrangement for them to consider serving as a basis for a fair concession:

 

 

 

---- "...part of the 'Justice' here naturally demands that Jerusalem is going to have be [again] a fully Israeli City...Palestine must receive [without debt] as *'instantly*' as possible - a comprehensive new "State of the Art" Capital City...". [*a "right of return" concession may be bridged through this Plan!*]

 

 

 

---- So within 'that' simple 'concession' - we see the 'direction' to a proper 'resolution' on this Jerusalem issue - of course our Peace Plan [which was sent to various World Leaders] clearly outlines 'how' this HISTORIC "move" should be undertaken - we see no point in suggesting a Plan without practical methods to meet its end!

 

 

 

---- We sincerely pray to God that these realistic ideas can take hold within the portfolio's of those leaders in all the right places - because if they are to employ any 'Road Map' to peace - there better be a Factual Destination...

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

He would see the WHOLE picture unlike all the haters posting anti-Israel things. Don is simply adding balance, a larger scale view of things which the close minded ones seem to be having major difficulty accepting.

 

I like the Images you have posted Don.

 

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

"...And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all peoples..." [Zechariah 12.3]

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

A walk through time:

 

1200 B.C.E. - Lower Egypt’s remaining Jews are expelled at the end of the 19th Dynasty.

 

586 B.C.E.. - First Temple in Jerusalem is destroyed by the Babylonians.

 

168 B.C.E. - The Romans defile the Holy Temple, erecting a statue of Zeus and sacrificing swine. Observance of the Sabbath and circumcision are banned.

 

0 - The Second Temple is destroyed by the Romans.

 

73 - Roman troops storm Masada after a 3 year siege. The Jewish inhabitants kill themselves rather than submit to Roman slavery.

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135 A.D. - A Jewish diaspora begins as Hadrian bars Jews from Jerusalem and has survivors of the massacre dispersed across the empire. Those who escape are sold into slavery.

 

627 - Enemies of the prophet Mohammed move on Medina from Mecca and slaughter 700 Jews.

 

1099 - Crusaders break into Jerusalem, and set fire to a synagogue where Jews are taking refuge, burning them to death. Those who survived are sold as slaves or ransomed.

1290 - England’s Edward I exiles the country’s Jews.

 

1306 - Jews are expelled from France.

England whips and expels some 100,000 Jews who have remained since Edward I’s expulsion order of 1290.

 

1348 - Jews are blamed for spreading the Black Death by deliberately contaminating wells and by "anointing" people and houses with poison. The Jews are herded into wooden buildings and burned alive. At Strasbourg more than 2,000 Jewish scapegoats are hanged on a scaffold erected at the Jewish burying ground.

1349 - Jews are expelled from Hungary.

1391 - Seville has a pogrom in June that spreads throughout Andalusia as Spaniards seek scapegoats for the Black Death. Castilian sailors set fire to the Barcelona ghetto, and for 4 days a mob rages out of control, killing hundreds. Many Spanish Jews will accept conversion in the next few years.

 

1400 - 1772 - Jews are restricted from Russia.

 

1414 - Cologne, a town in western Germany, expels its Jews.

 

1421 - Jews are expelled from Austria.

 

1478 - Isabella of Castile launches an Inquisition against converted Jews who secretly practice their original faith, persecuting the so-called Marranos (the word originally meant pigs).

 

1492 - A decree issued March 31 by Ferdinand and Isabella orders Granada’s 150,000 Jews to sell their property and leave the country by July 31 "for the honor and glory of God." Ferdinand decrees November 23 that all property and assets left by the Jews belong to the Crown, even those now in Christian hands.

 

1497 - Jews are expelled from Portugal.

 

1555 - Pope Paul IV orders that Rome’s Jewish quarter be surrounded by a wall, creating the ghetto of Rome, claiming "God has imposed servitude until they should have recognized their errors".

 

1648 - A Ukrainian pogrom by Greek Orthodox peasants destroys hundreds of Jewish communities, killing all who will not accept the cross. The general populace joined this genocide, which degrades and tortures Jews before murdering them.

 

1657- Oliver Cromwell tacitly permits Jews to return to England.

 

1744 - Maria Theresa launches a pogrom to drive the Jews out of Bohemia and Moravia. Even where tolerated, Europe’s Jews often live under degrading conditions with regulations designed to limit their expansion and keep their status at a low level.

 

1772 - Jews are admitted into Russia, but are confined to the Pale of Settlement, a narrow strip of land.

 

1788 - Josef II orders Austrian Jews to adopt "proper recognizable surnames." They have been known until now largely by biblical patronyms and when some object to changing their names, the emperor’s officials give them such surnames as "Fresser,Pferd," and "Weinglas."

 

1789 - French Revolution: French National Association denounce equal rights for French Jews.

 

1807 - Napoleon forces leading rabbis and leaders to disavow Jewish commitments and pledge allegiance to France alone.

 

1881 - Russia’s new czar Aleksandr III makes Jews the scapegoats for the assassination of his father. He vows to kill one-third of the country’s Jews, drive out another third, and convert the rest, beginning a series of pogroms that will spur the emigration of millions of Jews in the next 30 years.

 

1893 - Antisemitism mounts in France as Jews are blamed for the collapse in 1889 of the Panama Canal Co., whose bankruptcy has cost many French investors their savings.

 

1894 - A French court martial convicts Army captain Alfred Dreyfus, 35, of having passed military information to German agents. Dreyfus will later be proved innocent, but the Dreyfus case adds to the growing Antisemitism in France. Viennese journalist Theodore Herzl, 34, covers the trial and hears the Paris mob cry, "Death to the Jews!" This experience would influence Herzl to become the father of the Zionist movement which inspired the creation of the State of Israel.

 

1898 -"J’Accuse!" headlines the Paris newspaper L’Aurore January 18 over an open letter by novelist Emile Zola. His attack forces a new trial of Capt. Dreyfus. It is revealed that Dreyfus was the victim of an Antisemitic plot.

 

1913 - The Anti-Defamation League is founded by B’Nai B’rith (Sons of the Covenant) to fight anti-Semitism in America.

 

1915 - A new Ku Klux Klan is legally chartered in Georgia. It employs terrorist tactics against blacks, Jews, and Roman Catholics. The new leader calls his KKK a "high-class, mystic, social, patriotic, benevolent association" dedicated to "white supremacy," the protection of Southern womanhood, and "Americanism," and claims it will promote his "invisible empire." It will attract a membership of nearly 100,000 throughout the country within 6 years, concentrating political power to elect sympathetic U.S. senators, congressmen, and state officials.

 

<tt>http://library.thinkquest.org/12307/astl_fr.html

</tt> Then later came the Nazi pogrom - that was to make these other events pale in comparison!

 

 

<tt>"Burn all synagogues.

Destroy all Jewish dwellings.

Confiscate the Jews' holy books.

Forbid rabbis to teach.

Forbid Jews to travel.

Forbid Jews to charge interest on loans to non-Jews and confiscate Jewish property.

Force Jews to do physical labor.

Expel the Jews from provinces where Christians live."

 

- Martin Luther in the pamphlet "Concerning the Jews and Their Lies." Early sixteenth century.

I think that Martin Luther embodies the nasty nature to which this thinking can sink to - let's not forget that 'he' was suppossed to be some great 'protestant and reformer' - what was he protesting? The so-called injustices of the catholic church - of which he was clergy - then he defected and did that do anything to help him reform his hate for Jews? Not apparently!

 

Here is a particular nasty comment from him as recorded [more than once!] within his noted pamphlet - [which can be found online]:

 

</tt>"Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts?"

<tt> Just see that offensive thinking and - to smear God too into it that way!

The sad part of this is that people still think his 'other' writings are worth something!

</tt>

<tt>"In Morocco in 1907, a huge massacre of Jews took place in Casablanca, along with the usual embellishments-rape, women carried away into the mountains, hundreds of homes and shops burned, etc... In 1912 a big massacre in Fez...girls and women raped in front of their families, the stomachs of pregnant women slashed open, the infants ripped out of them, children smashed with crowbars... All this can be found in the newspapers of the time, including the local Arab papers."

"Roughly speaking and in the best of cases, the Jew is protected like a dog which is part of man's property, but if he raises his head or acts like a man, then he must be beaten so that he will always remember his status."

 

- Writings of Albert Memmi, a noted French Jewish novelist</tt>

 

<tt>"[The Jews are] our masters and our enemies, whom we detest... the most abominable people in the world. In short they are a totally ignorant nation who, for many years, have combined contemptible miserliness and the most revolting superstition with a violent hatred of all those nations that have tolerated them... your priests have always sacrificed human victims with their sacred hands."

 

- Voltaire's Dictionnaire Philosophique, in which 30 of his 118 articles described the Jews, Eighteenth Century.</tt>

 

 

<tt>"The euthanasia of Judaism can only be achieved by means of a pure, moral religion, and the abandonment of all old legal regulations."

 

- Immanuel Kant, major German thinker of the late eighteenth century.</tt>

 

<tt>"What is the secular cult of the Jew? Haggling.

What is his secular god? Money.

Well them! Emancipation from haggling and money, from practical, real Judaism would be the self-emancipation of our time! Money is the jealous God of Israel, besides which no other God may stand."

 

- Karl Marx in one of his first major essays, "On the Jewish Question," mid nineteenth century.</tt>

 

<tt>"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the labor leaders, and I did not speak out - because I was not a labor leader.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me."

 

- Reverend Martin Niemoellier, a pastor in the German Confessing Church who spent seven years in a concentration camp.</tt>

 

<tt>So when talking about disproportionate reactions - we need to see all of the history - of course - let's again look at these words - from the scriptures:</tt>

 

...so the angel that spoke with me said unto me: 'Proclaim thou, saying: Thus saith the LORD of hosts: I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy; and I am very sore displeased with the nations that are at ease; for I was but a little displeased, and they helped for evil. Therefore thus saith the LORD: I return to Jerusalem with compassions: My house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth over Jerusalem. Again, proclaim, saying: Thus saith the LORD of hosts: My cities shall again overflow with prosperity; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem. [Zechariah 1.14-17]

 

So that part - 'I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy; and I am very sore displeased with the nations that are at ease; for I was but a little displeased, and they helped for evil.' - that means that God is angry at the nations of the world for it's treatment of His exiled - because He was 'but a little displeased' and yet - the nations after the 70 C.E. exile - were to have 'helped for evil' [or helped forward the afflications] and they were 'at ease' with doing so.

 

<tt>I think that this should all be understood and - please try to understand what </tt><tt>Reverend Martin Niemoellierb meant in his words:</tt>

 

<tt>"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the labor leaders, and I did not speak out - because I was not a labor leader.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me."</tt>

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Sure here are some of my thoughts on this [forgive me if they are garbled sounding].

 

These noted orthodox followers are interpreting that they cannot return to Jerusalem to renew the State - without the messiah. But they should embrace the renewed State - for the following reasons and - more.

 

The children of Ephraim were as archers handling the bow, that turned back in the day of battle. [Psalms 78.9]

 

So best to be not now - like them then.

 

In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven away, and her that I have afflicted; And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a mighty nation; and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from thenceforth even for ever. [Micah 4.6-7]

 

Of course the messiah that is expected - shall not be seen through any second advent of Jesus - because Jesus isn't the prophetically expected messiah - the 'why not' part of that - is a whole other discussion .

 

[...]

 

 

So I just did this following posting on another thread - it sort of answers a point raised in this quoted posting of mine here - thus i paste it here in modified form:

 

---

 

The fact is - Jesus cannot be the messiah predicted yet to come - within the Hebrew scriptures.

 

If he were - the world would not be in this mess - he would not have to so-called 'come again' - there are NO texts in the hebrew holy books that speak of two comings to complete the mission - [i know all that about the suffering servant verses and it ain't about Jesus and this issue] - also some major texts in the 'christian' bible are translated wrong.

 

One is in Psalms 22.17 [text 16 in your bible]:

 

So in the King James bible it reads this way:

 

For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

 

However - in the Hebrew Bible it reads this way:

 

For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me;like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.

 

So in the KJ version it is changed to try to draw a connection to Jesus and the Crucifixion by which he was murdered by the Roman State - however - the imprtant words were changed to support a nonexistent connection of this verse to Jesus and his death!

 

So the original hebrew word-phrase "like a lion" is rendered into "they pierced my hands and my feet" - how was that done?

 

The hebrew word-phrase "KeAri" [like a lion] was changed to "Kari" [which means 'he gouged me' - rendered into the english as they pierced my hands and my feet].

 

That is a fact.

 

Another text that is oft misquoted to support the Crucifixion/messiah theory is Zechariah 13.6 which reads [in the hebrew Bible] like this:

 

And one shall say unto him: 'What are these wounds between thy hands?' Then he shall answer: 'Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.'

 

This text has nothing to do with Jesus nor the messiah! It has to do with false prophets of the line of the ancient Baal religion. These texts [Zechariah 3-6] in context may be a warning to false prophets - with the advent of/during the messianic age.

 

Literally "wounds between your hands." The false prophets like the prophet of Baal [i kings 18.28: And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with swords and lances, till the blood gushed out upon them] - apparently inflicted wounds on themselves - to defend against the accusation of being a false prophet - the idea was that a man would deny having inflicted wounds on himself - instead saying that he received them at home - "in the house of my dear ones."

 

So on the face of it when one takes the mistranslated Psalms 22.16 text and misapplies it with this Zecharaiah 13.6 quote - it may look like there is a seeming pattern which speaks of the murder of messiah - by Crucifixion - when in fact it doesn't in the least.

 

There is much much more to it than that! So let's start there.

 

Can anyone find me 'old testement' quotes that teach 'original sin' and some [and not Isaiah's 'suffering servant' descriptions] that say anything about messiah having to come once die by Crucifixion for everyone's sins and come again 2000+ years later to complete the mission?

 

Since i bring up the Isaiah quotes let's look at this:

 

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. [isaiah 53.10, King James version]

 

The same text from the Hebrew Bible reads quite differntly and enters an interesting point about the messiah:

 

Yet it pleased the LORD to crush him by disease; to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution, that he might see his seed, prolong his days, and that the purpose of the LORD might prosper by his hand: [isaiah 53.10, Hebrew Bible]

 

There is a significant difference contrasted in - to bruise him - and - to crush him by disease - obvious changes.

 

Also - when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin - contrasted to - to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution - this change goes to the heart of the false theory of original sin and false theory of messiah being a sacrifice for sin [enough edits that's another posting].

 

In text 3 of chapter 53 of Isaiah we read:

 

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. [isaiah 53.3, King James version]

 

He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not. [isaiah 53.3, Hebrew Bible]

 

Can you see all these bogus changes there within the King James translation?

 

Why are these changes introduced?

 

It is that there was no reference to Jesus being a man of pains, and acquainted with disease - so instead - they changed it to - a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief - do keep in mind the changes to the later verse [10] - where it should read - it pleased the LORD to crush him by disease - however - it reads like this in the King James - it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief - so these are important disparities which all can see.

 

Messiah shall be someone who is diseased and - Jesus wasn't recorded in the gospels as being diseased - he is recorded as having cured them - of course - we can see in these texts what disease it may be - a clue:

 

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. [isaiah 53.4, King James version]

 

Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried; whereas we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. [isaiah 53.4, Hebrew Bible]

 

So "griefs" and "diseases" are two distinct states - and they aren't mutually exclusive states either.

 

In that text the change to "griefs" from "diseases" - is carried through but - one part remains the same - we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted - what these words - stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted- are traditionally speaking of - is skin disease - like leprosy etc., something quite different from "griefs" or "sorrows"!

 

So of course - another part should be explained in context to this - in text 5 we read:

 

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. [isaiah 53.5, King James Version]

 

Whereas in the original it really reads:

 

But he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his stripes we were healed. [isaiah 53.5, Hebrew Bible]

 

Just see these changes all noted in red - "was wounded" [not killed] and - "for" is different from "because of" - this text does not support the false theory that messiah shall 'have' to die for anyone's sins [how the sacrificial theory relates to the messianic age is another discussion] - what to speak sins brought about by the non-biblical original sin theory.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

"The most intransigent and extreme of the Orthodox anti-Zionist parties is the Naturei Karta movement..."

 

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/363_Transp/Orthodoxy/Naturei.html

 

Link posted for a broader understanding.

[Guest guest]

BDM, you are posting your endless drivel to obscure the original subject of the threads. It is very transparent.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

BDM, you are posting your endless drivel to obscure the original subject of the threads. It is very transparent.

If i'm posting drivel - then why have you never tried to 'debate' the postings?

 

You say that "It is very transparent" - what is "it" - that is so very "transparent" - the facts?

 

Like in my last posting above this one - what is wrong with that posting? Is it that it sheds some light on the Naturei Karta movement - is it that my postings make it difficult to spread the rhetoric? Without doubt the Naturei Karta movement is the subject of this thread.

 

Since you've mentioned - "to obscure the original subject" - this posting of yours - seems to do just that! I wonder why.

 

As for all the messiah stuff - it isn't out of place either and - you know that.