ISKCON devotees penalised for entering Orissa temple

[Guest guest]

Jay Lord Jagannatha, Baladeva, Subhadra - ki jayaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

 

ISKCON devotees penalised for entering Orissa temple

 

By Indo Asian News Service

 

Kendrapada (Orissa), July 27 (IANS) Seven devotees of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) from the Czech Republic were asked to pay a fine for entering a 300-year temple here that does not allow foreigners and non-Hindus.

On Wednesday, the ISKCON devotees were singing bhajans inside the sanctum sanctorum of the famous Baladevjew temple when temple priests saw them.

 

According to rules, the foreigners were told to pay Rs.700, said temple administrator P.K. Hota, adding that there was a notice outside the complex about those who could not enter.

 

'I don't have any personal opinion on this. We followed what is in the rules,' Hota told IANS.

 

But the ISKCON members refused to pay the penalty, resulting in the normal daily rituals of the deity being delayed for near about six hours, said a temple priest.

 

One of the foreigners said: 'We are Hindus and we have every right to enter the temple.'

 

Normalcy was restored only after some other devotees donated the money and purification rituals were performed.

 

In a similar incident last year, an American woman Pamela K. Fleig, who said she had converted from Christianity to Hinduism after marrying Uttar Pradesh resident Anil Kumar Yadav, was denied entry into the 11th century Lingaraj temple in Bhubaneswar.

 

Copyright Indo-Asian News Service

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Yes but our foreign cash isn't discouraged from entering the temple - right?

[theist]

Lol bhakta Don

[theist]

But didn't we learn a lesson from Haridas Thakur concerning this. He choose not to make a disturbance and remained away so as to not disturb minds. Lord Jagannatha came to him as Lord Caitanya and maha-prasad.

 

Let them have their Temple and their kanistha realizations in peace. JNdas has set up an alternative anyway.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

But didn't we learn a lesson from Haridas Thakur concerning this. He choose not to make a disturbance and remained away so as to not disturb minds. Lord Jagannatha came to him as Lord Caitanya and maha-prasad.

 

Let them have their Temple and their kanistha realizations in peace. JNdas has set up an alternative anyway.

 

"JNdas has set up an alternative anyway"

 

Yes the Lord has moved there - isn't that great!

[Guest guest]

The Lord has just 'moved' there? That is plain speculation and quite offensive to the devotees that visit the 300 year old temple. I do not agree with what the priests there did but that doesn't mean the Lord has 'moved' from there leaving the sincere devotees that visit. The Lord is present everywhere.

 

 

"JNdas has set up an alternative anyway"

 

Yes the Lord has moved there - isn't that great!

[Guest guest]

what bigots! who are these priests to declare what devotees are allowed into God's temple? there are vaishnavas of every race. The vaishnava religion says we are not this body, or any of these temporal identifications, but then these so-called vaishnava priests, only allow people into their temple based on what color body they have? they are going against the teachings of their own religion and making a mockery of the universality of Sanatana Dharma.

[Guest guest]

 

Let them have their Temple and their kanistha realizations in peace. JNdas has set up an alternative anyway.

 

I disagree. As long as they hold bigotry in their hearts against devotees of other races, they will never reach God-realization. Sri Krishna clearly says the spiritually advanced, do not discriminate based on outer identification, but see all with an equal vision. So it's for their own good, that they learn how foolish and ignorant they are being, by turning away God's devotees from this Temple. Racial Discrimination is always wrong, and every spiritual person must learn this.

[Kulapavana]

 

But didn't we learn a lesson from Haridas Thakur concerning this. He choose not to make a disturbance and remained away so as to not disturb minds. Lord Jagannatha came to him as Lord Caitanya and maha-prasad.

 

yes, that is my approach as well. If you want to see the Lord you must be humble. Trinad api sunicena...

[theist]

 

I disagree. As long as they hold bigotry in their hearts against devotees of other races, they will never reach God-realization. Sri Krishna clearly says the spiritually advanced, do not discriminate based on outer identification, but see all with an equal vision. So it's for their own good, that they learn how foolish and ignorant they are being, by turning away God's devotees from this Temple. Racial Discrimination is always wrong, and every spiritual person must learn this.

 

 

Well, we have the example of Haridas Thakur so we needn't reinvent the wheel.

 

You cannot force God realization on anyone. That is against krsna's arrangement of every jiva having free will. You may be able to force so external political change but you won't change anyone's hearts. The may hate the foriengers more for forcing they ways upon them.

 

Who cares if they accept westerners as real devotees or not. It is Krsna's acceptance that is of importance. Those that refuse to give us respects as devotees are our true friends. The lower position is most often the higher one in terms of our individual enlightenment.

[raga]

This was also the example of Sanatana Gosvami, who walked the ocean path to not touch the pujaris of Jagannath by chance, as he feared he might contaminate them. Mahaprabhu was pleased with him, noting -- maryAda rakSaNa haya sAdhura bhUSana, "Observing the etiquette is the ornament of a saint."

 

A devotee, by his nature, feels lowly and unfit; if he is forbidden from entering a temple, he feels that justice has taken place as far as he himself is concerned. Then, those who proclaim that "I / we have every right to..." may be missing something.

 

Their practice of bhakti does not depend on entering a particular temple. Then, there is no substantial gain in provoking others with "our rights".

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

A couple points about this:

 

1) Haridas Thakur's example was that of how a saint may think and act. But if we actually take the mindset that we are too fallen to enter the temple and they are right for refusing us, then we must not go to any temple at all. If you really believed you were too fallen to enter Jagannatha's temple, then you are also too fallen to enter any temple of the Lord. Thus what is being suggested here:

 

A devotee, by his nature, feels lowly and unfit; if he is forbidden from entering a temple, he feels that justice has taken place as far as he himself is concerned.

...is artificial unless you actually believe you are unfit to enter any temple of the Lord's. And that would entail one to act on such a belief by not going to the Lord's temples anywhere in the world. Anything less would show that you didnt actually believe you were fallen - and if you don't actually believe it, then why the false show? Devotees do accept whatever happens to them as their past karma, but it doesn't necessarily mean we accept what others do to us as just action on their part; especially not while in the conditioned state (i.e. being a sadhaka). Mahatmas act in many mysterious ways, but for us to imitate them is external. Are you prepared to let thieves walk away with your possessions? Are you prepared to let criminals beat you senseless? If not, then you aren't one of those mahatmas who will sit silently while injustice is carried out against yourself.

 

2) Another point is that this is not just a matter of foreigners not being allowed entry into a temple. In Orissa, even today people from lower castes are not allowed entry into most village temples. This was the case in Puri as well, up till recently. With so many thousands of people visiting puri every day it is impossible to identify people's castes, so it is no longer enforced. It should be noted that this practice of baring entry of lower caste people into a temple is illegal in India. The law has not been enforced in Orissa (though most other states follow it).

 

What we have here is not a matter of one person being discriminated against, but rather a very large social injustice being perpetrated against millions of people. When people are being discriminated against, exploited and mistreated it is very easy to sit back silently and quote nice philosophical passages about the need for humility, but the real need is for people to fight such social evils.

 

When slavery was still legal in the world, everyone could have sat silently saying true saintly people would be humble. But the fact is true saintly people would speak out against such social evils. India has many such social and religious corruptions that need to be rooted out, such as Sati, the system of Devadasi, and untouchability (all three very prominent in the history of Orissa).

 

3) As everyone else has said, if your not welcome there then why go? It is one thing to speak and fight against such discimination, but there is no need to try to force your way. It is much more effective to educate people then to just try to fight for your personal right.

 

4) I am sure these devotees were unaware of the practices in Orissa and entered the temple by accident. Most of the temples in Orissa do not have any written policy. Even though the article claims there was a "sign", I would bet it didn't exist, because I have been to many temples in Orissa and know what is usually found. Some local priests likely saw it as a chance to shake these people down for money. None of the money would have been used for the temple or for "purification rituals".

 

5) The practices within particular temples are also often based on the whims of whoever is there at the time. For example in Kapilash (an ancient Shiva temple), sometimes they ask me to enter the puja room to touch the Shivalinga, and other times they tell me I cannot enter the temple. Its all based on the whims of whoever happens to be doing the puja at the time. It makes it a little confusing, because someone may have told these people that this temple allows foreigners inside, but then when they come someone else is doing puja and he has his own idea of who should be allowed inside.

[raga]

 

But if we actually take the mindset that we are too fallen to enter the temple and they are right for refusing us, then we must not go to any temple at all.

 

...is artificial unless you actually believe you are unfit to enter any temple of the Lord's

A devotee will naturally have a desire to see his Lord, regardless of feelings of fitness. Then, when he is forbidden, he feels that justice has taken place and does not hold a grudge over it. When he is allowed, he feels that mercy has been bestowed, taking darshan with great eagerness.

 

But I agree that on a social scale, these issues need to be worked on, and I do not agree on the legitimacy of racist policies such as those in effect here.

 

My main point in the individual scope was that there is little need to provoke. I do not know if that was the case in this particular case, but such mentality is out there, and I feel it is not conducive in any respect -- not for the indivudals' devotion, not for furthering the cause.