My fellow devotees...

[anandamahadeva~]

My fellow devotees i'm at present a neophyte but uninitated and without sri-guru to gide me on the sweet path to krishna, what i am looking for is a guru can anyone help me?

[Guest guest]

You may start the process by beginning to chant the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra and reading books written by the great Vaisnava Acaryas. If you have the opportunity to associate with devotees, that will be tremendous.

 

 

 

My fellow devotees i'm at present a neophyte but uninitated and without sri-guru to gide me on the sweet path to krishna, what i am looking for is a guru can anyone help me?

[theist]

As above. Also pray to Lord Krsna to guide you always from your heart. Put your fate in His Hands. The Lord in the heart as Guru is called Caitya-guru. You don't need an ceremonial intiation before you can approach Him directly. That is our eternal right.

 

He may even appear before you as the pure devotee but to recognize Him there we need the grace of Caitya-guru to give us that spititual vision.

 

So you see we already have guru, as Caitya-guru. Some use the term "shastra-guru" or "siksa-guru" in referrence to leaning from the writings of past acaryas. That we also already have. So we already have so many gurus now it is a question of our taking advantage of what we have.

[Gaea]

 

My fellow devotees i'm at present a neophyte but uninitated and without sri-guru to gide me on the sweet path to krishna, what i am looking for is a guru can anyone help me?

 

The above posts are very good advice... in terms of finding a guru, i have heard time and time again that it is the guru that finds you

[mahak]

Hare Krsna. This is a fact, gaea ji, the guru finds one who is sincere. Srila Prabhupada explains the way of guru tattwa, how the Guru is actually inspired to appear before the disciple, the descending process (as opposed to finding a guru, which leaves one encumbered by the fact that unless one is pure, one cannot observe purity). This explanation is readily available.

 

On my friend, theist, signature, you can access vedabase. Punch in Srimad bhagavatam, forst canto, and look for the chapter near the end of first canto describving the appearance of Srila Sukadeva Goswami.

 

So, ones sincerity activates actual guru tattwa. However, there are ways in which this inspired association takes place. There are gurus whose business is to introduce another to this process, and point the way to others who are more advanced. This is actually how Srila Prabhupadas movement expanded, because his disciples were also inspired (by Him) to appear before the sincere candidate. Disciples like goursundar (in my case), visnujnana, jayananda, etc, were very involved in welfare work in getting Srila Prabhupadas inspired appearance to all those in every town and village. While it is of my opinion that I should not be in the business of recommending gurus to others, it is also not my business to hide from the assembly (see Psalm 40). I can tell others about Srila Prabhupada, and I also have no problems sharing with those who ask who have made a spiritual impact on my life. Just as our business is to taste prasadam, and then see to the distribution of all which I have tasted, this also goes for the prasadam of good association.

 

However, as Babhru das, my friend from the isle of big, indicated on another topic, some things should not be spouted off in public, because such things bring about unnecessary negative conversation. So, if I were to recommend a website of a particular guru here, encouraging you to listen to what this advanced devotee has to say, to give you opportunity to analyze to see if such a person is worthy of you accepting and his decision to accept you, only heartache would follow in a public setting.

 

However, if you write me at:

 

mahaksa_d@hotmail.com

 

I would be more than happy to share my opinion in this regard.

 

Again, I mention this because of previous positions I have taken in regard to recommendations. I cant show you guru, only guru can do this via the descending manner discussed above. But I also remember how goursundar made it possible for me to further appreciate Srila Prabhupada.

 

Any comments here are appreciated.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

In today's world, the options are broad from a general perspective.

 

I would recommend that you take your time in making a commitment to a particular guru.

Accepting a guru is of paramount importance and you don't want to rush into something that you might come to regret.

 

I think a good starting point is the books of Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta.

From there you can get a good foundation for being a member of the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

From there, you might be able to sort out the situation and find out where your faith is naturally being drawn in a very profound way.

 

Be patient. Accepting a guru is not a fashion or a social affair.

 

Someday you will find your faith in a particular Vaishnava as being the greatest Vaishnava in your judgement.

 

then, you can make a commitment.

 

Your guru is your God.

When you can worship a guru to be God in human form, then you are ready to accept a guru.

[stonehearted]

The advice above is good advice. I especially appreciate theist and mahaksa's posts. When Srila Prabhupada was talking with Irish poet Desmond O'Grady, the poet suggested that the core problem was to find the guru who can give us the guidance we need. Srila Prabhupada had another perspective:

 

 

That is not the problem. The problem is whether you are sincere. You have problems, but God is within your heart. Isvarah sarva-bhutanamcaitya-guru, the spiritual master within the heart. God helps from within and from without. Everything is thus described in the Bhagavad-gita. This material body is like a machine, but within the heart is the soul, and with the soul is the Supersoul, Krsna, who gives directions. The Lord says, "You wanted to do this; now here is the chance. Go and do it." If you are sincere, you say, "Now, God, I want You." Then He will give you directions. "Yes, now you come and get Me like this." This is His kindness. However, if we want something else, that is all right. We can have it. God is very kind. When I want something, He is in my heart directing me and telling me how to have it. So why should He not give directions on how to have a spiritual master? First of all we must again be eager to revive our God consciousness. Then God will give us a spiritual master. [bg. 18.61]. God is not far away. If you are sincere, God sends you a spiritual master. Therefore God is also called

 

I could also suggest sites you where you could find help in making such a decision, which, to echo everyone's advice above, should be made patiently and with great care. However, like mahaksa, I'm wary of publicly making any such suggestions here. If you like, you may write me at babhru{at}gmail{dot}com

[Devarsirat]

same with me , write to me and I try and help

 

p.w.w (at) ntlworld.com

[gHari]

Srila Sridhara Goswami Maharaja has recommended Srila Govinda Maharaja. But like everyone said, when you are ready, the best guru for you will find you.

[Guest guest]

 

Hare Krsna. This is a fact, gaea ji, the guru finds one who is sincere. Srila Prabhupada explains the way of guru tattwa, how the Guru is actually inspired to appear before the disciple, the descending process (as opposed to finding a guru, which leaves one encumbered by the fact that unless one is pure, one cannot observe purity). This explanation is readily available.

 

On my friend, theist, signature, you can access vedabase. Punch in Srimad bhagavatam, forst canto, and look for the chapter near the end of first canto describving the appearance of Srila Sukadeva Goswami.

 

So, ones sincerity activates actual guru tattwa. However, there are ways in which this inspired association takes place. There are gurus whose business is to introduce another to this process, and point the way to others who are more advanced. This is actually how Srila Prabhupadas movement expanded, because his disciples were also inspired (by Him) to appear before the sincere candidate. Disciples like goursundar (in my case), visnujnana, jayananda, etc, were very involved in welfare work in getting Srila Prabhupadas inspired appearance to all those in every town and village. While it is of my opinion that I should not be in the business of recommending gurus to others, it is also not my business to hide from the assembly (see Psalm 40). I can tell others about Srila Prabhupada, and I also have no problems sharing with those who ask who have made a spiritual impact on my life. Just as our business is to taste prasadam, and then see to the distribution of all which I have tasted, this also goes for the prasadam of good association.

 

However, as Babhru das, my friend from the isle of big, indicated on another topic, some things should not be spouted off in public, because such things bring about unnecessary negative conversation. So, if I were to recommend a website of a particular guru here, encouraging you to listen to what this advanced devotee has to say, to give you opportunity to analyze to see if such a person is worthy of you accepting and his decision to accept you, only heartache would follow in a public setting.

 

However, if you write me at:

 

mahaksa_d@hotmail.com

 

I would be more than happy to share my opinion in this regard.

 

Again, I mention this because of previous positions I have taken in regard to recommendations. I cant show you guru, only guru can do this via the descending manner discussed above. But I also remember how goursundar made it possible for me to further appreciate Srila Prabhupada.

 

Any comments here are appreciated.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Dear Prabhu,

 

Dandabat Pranam, Namaste, Namaskaram.

 

Mahaksa, I am just wondering why you would advocate

some of the people you are advocating after what you

went through and saw with your own eyes. I am

wondering why you would steer others in that direction?

 

Also, do you have any idea what some of these people

are into NOW, today, July 2006? You frequently share

that you are in a self-imposed exile. That means you

haven't had contact or know very much about what

some of the people who inspired you are into NOW

and what they are doing now.

 

What I would recommend is what the Dalai Lama says:

you should study your teacher for ten years before you

make a commitment to him/her and you should spy on

him/her. This would get rid of any sentimentality and

nostalgia for "the past" on the part of Mahaksa Prabhu

if in truth he tried spying on some of the persons he

has named in the past that he has so much love and

affection for.

 

Also it would eliminate the problem of being overly

sentimental for the past if he had spent ten years

with any one of the individuals he has recommended

in the past. I don't mean as a devotee who now and

then saw the siksa guru over a period of less than a

year to two or three years.

 

I'm happy for Mahaksa that he has a devotional life

and he has his right to have positive feelings for

whoever he so chooses. However I would highly

recommend anyone to follow the Dalai Lama's

advice on choosing a "spiritual friend" as they

call it in that tradition. Exercise extreme caution.

 

After all this is the Kali Yuga. "Fools rush in where

angels fear to tread." In my opinion, I feel that a

person looking for a teacher should first of all

educate themselves as much as possible. Learn

about the different lineages. Do a compare and

contrast.

 

The aspirant has the responsibility of also bringing

something very important into the mix: his/her

powers of discrimination. Like learn what a 501 ©

(3) non-profit corporation is and how it should be

run aka a charitable organization. They have grave

responsibilities to the shareholders and stake-holders

to uphold the law, for example, in collecting donations.

 

There are "best practices" in this field of endeavor.

You can take a one day seminar from the NSFRE

National Society of Fund Raising Executives. There

is a code of ethics involved that most "karmi" orgs

can easily adhere to vis-a-vis collecting money.

 

So does your prospective teacher or org adhere to

this stringent code of ethics? For example does the

guru/org have an Annual Report that tells you how

every single penny collected was spent? Well they

should.

 

The group I trust with my charitable donations

publishes their annual report online MONTHLY.

They have checks and balances in place as

far as accounting and auditing goes. They are

totally transparent in regards to finances. They

have an endowment in place and a variety of

ways in which my contribution can go on in

perpetuity.

 

So this is just ONE area in which you need to

use your intelligence. If your prospective teacher

doesn't publish an annual report then why? It is

considered de rigeur for a 501 © (3) corporation

to do this after ten years as a grassroots organization.

 

If the godless "karmis" can do this very simple

act of financial accounting then why not your

prospective "Pure Representative of God?"

 

You know, every scripture in the world is online now.

Do your research online first. Study the world's

scriptures FIRST. Do your homework FIRST. Then

you can think about what kind of help and guidance

you need after that.

 

For example if you are going to buy a car. Do you

go and ask the XXX car salesman which make and

model is the best? If you don't want to get ripped

off, then you should do your research in the

Consumer Reports Car Issue first.

 

In summary: do your research first, compare and

contrast. Then if you THINK you've found a

svatajiya and snigda preceptor, spy on him/her

for ten years. This would include checking out

the cult awareness websites. Ask to see all of the

past annual reports of the guru's organization if

they ask you for money, for however many years

they have had IRS tax exempt status.

 

This is your heart you need to protect. Please

be very careful. Don't be sentimental. God/dess

gave you a brain so don't forget to use it. Don't

be intimidated because some Hindu orgs are so

on the up and up that they post where all of

their money goes online monthly.

 

Create a checklist of benchmarks or rubrics.

Keep it with you so you don't get all tongue-

tied and goofy. Many teachers have siddhis

they will use to try to get disciples if you

don't protect yourself. Learn what these

siddhis are and how they are different from

actual spiritual advancement.

 

Well good luck!

[raga]

 

What I would recommend is what the Dalai Lama says:

you should study your teacher for ten years before you

make a commitment to him/her and you should spy on

him/her.

"Parīkṣā, the mutual testing of between the prospective guru and disciple, is encouraged in the scriptures to ensure that expectations in a guru-disciple relationship will be met. This phase is an aspect of guru-pādāśraya, taking shelter of a guru's feet, the first of the 64 aspects of bhakti in Rupa Gosvami's Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu that precedes diksa, the rite of receiving a sacred mantra."

 

http://wiki.gaudiyakutir.com/Pariksa_-_Mutual_testing

[stonehearted]

Thanks for posting this link, Madhava. This is an excellent article. I'm sure many devotees will find much on your wiki site that's informative and inspirational, regardless of which Gaudiya line they're affiliated with.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Raga, for sharing that very important insight from the vast archives of past knowledge.

 

Another thing I feel is the responsibility of the seeker is to make yourself as

mentally healthy as possible. That way you won't be "projecting" onto your

prospective guru/ teacher in a search for something really that might have

nothing at all to do with the quest for enlightenment.

 

DO you really need a teacher? If so, why? Ask yourself this is private and be

very very kind and loving to yourself when you examine yourself as to WHY

you feel you need a guru in the first place. After all, every scripture in the

world is online now. Be careful not to jump the gun and put yourself into a

vulnerable position before you can really discern and discriminate.

 

If you think it hurts when a potential romantic hookup is not all you made

him/her out to be in your mind, think 1000x before you make yourself

vulnerable to someone who claims to know God/dess. If your faith in

God/dess gets destroyed, that is a very difficult situation, because its

nice to have faith in something higher to help us through life.

 

Therefore, I'd also recommend what Sri Isopanisad says: "One must study the

material science and the spiritual science side by side." LIke find out what we

in the post-modern world consider a truly mentally healthy person to be.

Then analyze yourself: are you mentally healthy? The standard used in

Western culture is the DSM IV: the handbook used by mental health

professionals to diagnose mental illnesses and psych disorders.

 

How will you know if your prospective guru is even a mentally healthy person

if you don't have the "checks and balances" of knowing what in the secular world any reasonable and prudent person would consider to be a well-adjusted, fully functioning individual? Learn what those who deal with "best practices" in the mental health profession consider to be good, kind, loving behavior.

 

Any website that delineates psych disorders has descriptors of observable

and measurable behavior of what is considered healthy and also unhealthy.

Keep THIS checklist in mind when you shop around for a guru, too. Also apply

the checklist to his/her followers. See how they behave, because whatever

they are doing and into, chances are you are going to end up like them.

The kinds of people that the guru has around him/her reflects on the guru.

 

In summary, analyze yourself to see WHY you feel you even need a guru in the first place at this point in time. Then become familiar with what is considered to be mentally healthy by secular mental health professionals who use measurable and observable behaviors as a means to identify such attributes. Apply this measurable and observable data to yourself and others. Plus constantly keep on learning as much as you can about what simply being considered a nice, kind, decent, and loving person is in the secular world.

 

You are going to need all of this stuff when you start reading the long list of rubrics for "Qualities of A Devotee" for example, if you decide to go with a

tradition that uses those benchmarks. Say it says, "a devotee is always very humble". Well you need to know the difference between what being humble is, what play-acting humble is, and what being bullied and intimidated by someone so much that you appear to be humble on the surface, but maybe in actuality you are seething inside because you are kowtowing to a despot who is bullying and victimizing you and you are both angry and scared.

 

You will need to become as educated and mentally healthy as possible in the secular sense in order to make that one simple spiritual judgement call. There

are thousands of small judgement calls like that you have to make on a daily

basis when you throw your hat into the spiritual arena.

 

So don't be in too much of a rush. Take your time with it, and good luck!

[Guest guest]

The guest thinks he knows me, thinks he knows who I would recommend. But he doesnt, so he can take the dalai lama's advice himself.

 

When I mention folks from the past who have helped me along the way, this means that the help was valid. It has nothing to do with what goes on after that. The most spiritual person I ever met, was a devout and favored disciple of Srila Prabhupada. This is when I knew him, so I have no qualms about any of the teachings that were departed then. This disciple may have had difficulty later on, but this is of no consequence whatsoever.

 

Krsna Consciousness is beyond time and space, so lessons from the past in Krsna Consciousness are valid then, now, and in the future as well.

 

In fact, dalai lama das is so off the wall that he is probably speculating as to the identity of the disciple of Srila Prabhupada I mention in this post, and he is equally wrong.

 

This is the very reason that I do not publically mention others whom I respect and regard as very advanced. Such talks really bring out the worst in people.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Dandavat pranam, Namaste, Namaskaram,

 

The topic of this thread is: "what I am looking for is a guru."

 

In M. das' writings on a) his website Sri Jayatu, b) in his postings on the Vaisnava Council, c) as well as on Isthagosthi, M. das has publicly made unfavorable comments about at least one person who was at one time, or are today, is considered to be "devout and favored disciples of SP".

 

i.e. at least one (a) member(s) in good standing of the GBC, (an) initiating guru(s) of ISKCON. At least one individual of that calibre you publicly "dissed" online in your description of a visit to an ISKCON temple on the West Coast where you brought some guests. You didn't like the way he talked to you, so you made some unfavorable comments about him online.

 

Now let's read what you just wrote, "...The most spiritual person I ever met

was a devout and favored disciple of SP. This is when I knew him, so I have no qualms...this disciple may have had difficulty later on, but THIS IS OF NO

CONSEQUENCE..."

 

These are your own words. So this is a thread started by a person who is seeking a guru. On your website "Sri Jayatu" under the heading of "Dandavats" as well as in your "Table of Contents" you seem to be advocating some disciples of SP for either diksa or siksa who either once were and/or are: "devout and favored disciples of SP".

 

Yet you have publicly told the whole world on the internet that you are in

"self-imposed exile" and haven't had the association of certain devotees, including some of your siksa asociation, for the past 25 years.

 

So why is it that some "favored and devout" disciples of SP that you have recently, and in the past, associated with: it's okay if you "diss" them online?

 

Yet others --even if you haven't even been around them for decades, so you have no idea what they are up to now, you can recommend them as possible and potential siksa and diksa "gurus"? This is not "speculation", it's on your own website.

 

So if "knowledge of Krsna is eternal and all that matters, so it doesn't matter" what a potential guru's behavior is/ was like yesterday, today, or tomorrow, according to you, then, gee whiz: why bother to discriminate at all?

 

Also, if "favored and devout disciples of SP had difficulty later on" and that is "of no consequence" to you, then why is it of ANY consequence to you what ANY current or formerly "favored and devout disciple of SP" do? Ever?

 

Why should it matter to you what ANY of them do now, or have done, or will do in the future, acording to your logic? Moreover, why would you feel free to blast some, but not other, "devout and favored disciples" of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada if it doesn't matter what any of them do?

 

Why do you feel free to blast some disciples of SP online for the whole world to see and by doing so possibly insult those who have taken shelter of them by doing so? Some people might have affection for them in the same way that you have affection for other direct disciples of SP.

 

I myself was very offended and hurt by your description of someone that I

myself have had positive interactions with, just on a friendly basis. He also

is/ has been a "devout and favored disciple of SP".

 

What to speak of those who are his/her disciples, the grand-disciples of your SP? How do you think they felt?

 

Also, did you know that at least one direct disciple of your siksa guru [per your website] has hosted this ISKCON GBC/ initiating guru at their home? So how is it helping matters your dissing this person online, while direct disciples of your siksa guru can somehow manage to have friendly relations with him?

 

[Currently. Not 30 years ago. Here and Now. This millenium.]

 

This is why I'm bringing it up. I think it would do you a world of good to go and see what is happening out in the world these days, if only to keep from shooting yourself in the foot and sabotaging yourself. If you are in truth "in exile" for "committing Vaisnava Aparadha", then it doesn't seem to me like you have learned a whole lot to be dissing direct disciples of SP online.

 

So that is why I have pointed out that you have self-described yourself online as being in "self-imposed exilefor Vaisnava aparadha." Therefore,

as a person in exile, you might not know what is happening NOW with some of the people you might possibly be recommending

 

[and considering the fact that you have a website that publicly lists who you feel indebted to on it, it would not be that much if a stretch to infer who you might recommend].

 

Therefore, a person might want to check out what is happening currently with whoever you might recommend, versus just take your word for it.

I then provided some specific guidelines a person could use to critique not only your suggestions but ANY name that came up as a potential guru.

 

I pointed out possible pitfalls and also provided possible solutions to the self-described neophyte person who stated, "what I am looking for is a guru,"

which is the topic of this thread. We are supposed to be merciful to the new devotees and what I shared with the self-described neophyte is what I wish someone had shared with me.

 

Namaskaram and namaste.

[Guest guest]

At least I put my name on everything I write so folks like you, hiding in the weeds, can criticize via the cut and paste method.

 

So who are you, puranjana, or jayadwaita? I like both of these devotees, yet I slam them both, too. An ex-siddha disciple? Bummed out because he didnt recognize your potency? Or maybe you have been sucessfully been deprogrammed by ted patrick das that you cite earlier.

 

Or maybe you are the other Mahaksa Dasa, the famous Spyra gira musician, who has written articles on VNN and Chakra trying to let his peeps know that I aint him.

 

But time is short, bro (or sis), whoever you are. My reply to this thread was to let the poster know that I will be more than happy to discuss his (or her) concerns via e-mail, to avoid the heckling from the audience who has nothing at all to offer.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS. Thanx for reading Jatayu, though. I quit VC because of all the antagonism by revisionists.