So many daily reminders

[theist]

Everyday we are bombarded with the fact that the Kali-yuga is here and getting worse. It should serve us as added impetus to become Krsna conscious for that is the ONLY safe position.

 

We can apply the following advice given to Uddhava to our own present situation.

 

SB 11.7.5:[The Blessed Lord said:] My dear Uddhava, you should not remain here on the earth once I have abandoned this world. My dear devotee, you are sinless, but in Kali-yuga the people will be addicted to all types of sinful activities; therefore do not stay here.

 

Yet He didn't take Uddhava with Him immediately but instead advised him on how to live detached with his mind fixed on Him.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

very interesting. How do you live in this world and be detached from it? Even with my sitting at home, i still feel influenced. Sometimes I wish I could live in a underground cave (with air-con of cource) and chant. (not stay all the time, but would be nice).

[theist]

 

very interesting. How do you live in this world and be detached from it? Even with my sitting at home, i still feel influenced. Sometimes I wish I could live in a underground cave (with air-con of cource) and chant. (not stay all the time, but would be nice).

 

The only workable answer is to be always engaged in the loving service of Krsna. If we want to just run and hide from the world through negation then Buddhism or Advaita would be more appropriate.

 

But we see the need to not only leave the material consciousness of suffering behind but to run towards Krsna and embrace the Absolute Truth Positive.

 

But we hesitate. And to the degree that we hesitate we suffer.

 

What is that verse from Sri Isopanishad? "Only those that know the science and nescience side by side can transcend..." Forgot how it goes exactly but you which one. In this sense it is kind of a dual process.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Sri Isopanisad 10

“Teachings of the Vedas”

His Divine Grace

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

 

TRANSLATION

The wise have explained that one result is derived from the culture of knowledge and that a different result is obtained from the culture of nescience.

 

PURPORT

As advised in Chapter Thirteen of the Bhagavad-gétä (13.8–12), one should culture knowledge in the following way:

 

(1) One should become a perfect gentleman and learn to give proper respect to others.

 

(2) One should not pose himself as a religionist simply for name and fame.

 

(3) One should not become a source of anxiety to others by the actions of his body, by the thoughts of his mind, or by his words.

 

(4) One should learn forbearance even in the face of provocation from others.

 

(5) One should learn to avoid duplicity in his dealings with others.

 

(6) One should search out a bona fide spiritual master who can lead him gradually to the stage of spiritual realization, and one must submit himself to such a spiritual master, render him service and ask relevant questions.

 

(7) In order to approach the platform of self-realization, one must follow the regulative principles enjoined in the revealed scriptures.

 

(8) One must be fixed in the tenets of the revealed scriptures.

 

(9) One should completely refrain from practices which are detrimental to the interest of self-realization.

 

(10) One should not accept more than he requires for the maintenance of the body.

 

(11) One should not falsely identify himself with the gross material body, nor should one consider those who are related to his body to be his own.

 

(12) One should always remember that as long as he has a material body he must face the miseries of repeated birth, old age, disease and death. There is no use in making plans to get rid of these miseries of the material body. The best course is to find out the means by which one may regain his spiritual identity.

 

(13) One should not be attached to more than the necessities of life required for spiritual advancement.

 

(14) One should not be more attached to wife, children and home than the revealed scriptures ordain.

 

(15) One should not be happy or distressed over desirables and undesirables, knowing that such feelings are just created by the mind.

 

(16) One should become an unalloyed devotee of the Personality of Godhead, Çré Kåñëa, and serve Him with rapt attention.

 

(17) One should develop a liking for residence in a secluded place with a calm and quiet atmosphere favorable for spiritual culture, and one should avoid congested places where nondevotees congregate.

 

(18) One should become a scientist or philosopher and conduct research into spiritual knowledge, recognizing that spiritual knowledge is permanent whereas material knowledge ends with the death of the body.

 

These eighteen items combine to form a gradual process by which real knowledge can be developed. Except for these, all other methods are considered to be in the category of nescience. Çréla Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura, a great äcärya, maintained that all forms of material knowledge are merely external features of the illusory energy and that by culturing them one becomes no better than an ass. This same principle is found here in Çré Éçopaniñad. By advancement of material knowledge, modern man is simply being converted into an ass. Some materialistic politicians in spiritual guise decry the present system of civilization as satanic, but unfortunately they do not care about the culture of real knowledge as it is described in the Bhagavad-gétä. Thus they cannot change the satanic situation.

 

In the modern society, even a boy thinks himself self-sufficient and pays no respect to elderly men. Due to the wrong type of education being imparted in our universities, boys all over the world are giving their elders headaches. Thus Çré Éçopaniñad very strongly warns that the culture of nescience is different from that of knowledge. The universities are, so to speak, centers of nescience only; consequently scientists are busy discovering lethal weapons to wipe out the existence of other countries. University students today are not given instructions in the regulative principles of brahmacarya (celibate student life), nor do they have any faith in any scriptural injunctions. Religious principles are taught for the sake of name and fame only and not for the sake of practical action. Thus there is animosity not only in social and political fields but in the field of religion as well.

 

Nationalism has developed in different parts of the world due to the cultivation of nescience by the general people. No one considers that this tiny earth is just a lump of matter floating in immeasurable space along with many other lumps. In comparison to the vastness of space, these material lumps are like dust particles in the air. Because God has kindly made these lumps of matter complete in themselves, they are perfectly equipped with all necessities for floating in space. The drivers of our spaceships may be very proud of their achievements, but they do not consider the supreme driver of these greater, more gigantic spaceships called planets.

 

There are innumerable suns and innumerable planetary systems also. As infinitesimal parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord, we small creatures are trying to dominate these unlimited planets. Thus we take repeated birth and death and are generally frustrated by old age and disease. The span of human life is scheduled for about a hundred years, although it is gradually decreasing to twenty or thirty years. Thanks to the culture of nescience, befooled men have created their own nations within these planets in order to grasp sense enjoyment more effectively for these few years. Such foolish people draw up various plans to render national demarcations perfectly, a task that is totally impossible. Yet for this purpose each and every nation has become a source of anxiety for others. More than fifty percent of a nation’s energy is devoted to defense measures and thus spoiled. No one cares for the cultivation of real knowledge, yet people are falsely proud of being advanced in both material and spiritual knowledge.

 

Çré Éçopaniñad warns us of this faulty type of education, and the Bhagavad-gétä gives instructions as to the development of real knowledge. This mantra states that the instructions of vidyä (knowledge) must be acquired from a dhéra. A dhéra is one who is not disturbed by material illusion. No one can be undisturbed unless he is perfectly spiritually realized, at which time one neither hankers nor laments for anything. A dhéra realizes that the material body and mind he has acquired by chance through material association are but foreign elements; therefore he simply makes the best use of a bad bargain.

 

The material body and mind are bad bargains for the spiritual living entity. The living entity has actual functions in the living, spiritual world, but this material world is dead. As long as the living spiritual sparks manipulate the dead lumps of matter, the dead world appears to be a living world. Actually it is the living souls, the parts and parcels of the supreme living being, who move the world. The dhéras have come to know all these facts by hearing them from superior authorities and have realized this knowledge by following the regulative principles.

 

To follow the regulative principles, one must take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master. The transcendental message and regulative principles come down from the spiritual master to the disciple. Such knowledge does not come in the hazardous way of nescient education. One can become a dhéra only by submissively hearing from a bona fide spiritual master. Arjuna, for example, became a dhéra by submissively hearing from Lord Kåñëa, the Personality of Godhead Himself. Thus the perfect disciple must be like Arjuna, and the spiritual master must be as good as the Lord Himself. This is the process of learning vidyä (knowledge) from the dhéra (the undisturbed).

 

An adhéra (one who has not undergone the training of a dhéra) cannot be an instructive leader. Modern politicians who pose themselves as dhéras are actually adhéras, and one cannot expect perfect knowledge from them. They are simply busy seeing to their own remuneration in dollars and cents. How, then, can they lead the mass of people to the right path of self-realization? Thus one must hear submissively from a dhéra in order to attain actual education.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

The ones in bold describe my faults. You said negation means we might do that etc..

 

Bhagavad-gita as it is, 7.19. Purport (experpt)

In the beginning of spiritual realization, while one is trying to give up one’s attachment to materialism, there is some leaning towards impersonalism, but when one is further advanced he can understand that there are activities in the spiritual life and that these activities constitute devotional service.

--

 

I asked a devotee about this once, I THINK I may doing this. He said not everybody feels like this.

I think if I tried hard enough, I could understand entire Purport of Vedic Scriptures with this single quote.

[AncientMariner]

17) One should develop a liking for residence in a secluded place with a calm and quiet atmosphere favorable for spiritual culture, and one should avoid congested places where nondevotees congregate.

 

I don't even think the temples of the Lord are calm places anymore. It seems in almost all religions the temples are places of political turmoil, and all other sorts of quarreling etc. A Christian friend told me the other day that the book of Revelations Jesus basically said all the religions of the world are against him because they have forgotten their true love which is the lamb of God. Nowadays they are in love with their religion, their self rightousness etc. instead of being in love with Jesus.

[Kulapavana]

 

He didn't take Uddhava with Him immediately but instead advised him on how to live detached with his mind fixed on Him.

 

just think about Krsna's queens who were left by Him only to be captured by the barbarians...

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure our situation is so bad materially or spiritually. I think we don't deserve even what we have.

[AncientMariner]

 

just think about Krsna's queens who were left by Him only to be captured by the barbarians...

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure our situation is so bad materially or spiritually. I think we don't deserve even what we have.

 

 

Its interesting because the queens of Krishna apparently were blessed to be able to feel the pain of seperation from Krishna and that eventually would bring them back to Krishna. My Christian friend the other day was telling me about the apostles of Jesus and how they were all basically scared sh*tless before Jesus was crucified and didn't really have true faith yet. After he was resurrected Jesus told them that he would always guide them in their hearts and would be with them in spirit. So after that the apostles had true faith by witnessing his resurrection I guess you would say they served Jesus in seperation but at the same time were aware that he was still with them in spirit. I wonder if there is any similarities and differences between the mood of seperation between the queens of Krishna and the apostles of Jesus.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Its interesting because the queens of Krishna apparently were blessed to be able to feel the pain of seperation from Krishna and that eventually would bring them back to Krishna. My Christian friend the other day was telling me about the apostles of Jesus and how they were all basically scared sh*tless before Jesus was crucified and didn't really have true faith yet. After he was resurrected Jesus told them that he would always guide them in their hearts and would be with them in spirit. So after that the apostles had true faith by witnessing his resurrection I guess you would say they served Jesus in seperation but at the same time were aware that he was still with them in spirit. I wonder if there is any similarities and differences between the mood of seperation between the queens of Krishna and the apostles of Jesus.

The appostles were disicples so it's like seperation from Gurudeva (Jesus). I think your talking about seperation of the Gopis? In one letter of Prabhupada He says to disciple that he (the disicple) was feeling seperation from Prabhupada, and He seemed pleased (Prabhupada).

 

I don't know, i.e a pure disicple of Prabhupada would be considered an apostle? Yes?.

 

Krishna has devotees who are more dear to Him, (depending on thier surrender!).

 

So Gurudeva is more pleased when a disicple shows surrender.

 

A disciple told me talking about Surrender is easy though when actually practiced

is it very very difficult. So I guess Surrender has different levels, and on this point

devotees are judged by Krishna. (and Krishna reciprocrates depending on thier

surrender).

 

The Queens of Dwaraka have more surrender then the Apostles.

 

Sorry I didn't provide any quotes, many devotees here have some for you.

[AncientMariner]

 

The appostles were disicples so it's like seperation from Gurudeva (Jesus). I think your talking about seperation of the Gopis? In one letter of Prabhupada He says to disciple that he (the disicple) was feeling seperation from Prabhupada, and He seemed pleased (Prabhupada).

 

I don't know, i.e a pure disicple of Prabhupada would be considered an apostle? Yes?.

 

Krishna has devotees who are more dear to Him, (depending on thier surrender!).

 

So Gurudeva is more pleased when a disicple shows surrender.

 

A disciple told me talking about Surrender is easy though when actually practiced

is it very very difficult. So I guess Surrender has different levels, and on this point

devotees are judged by Krishna. (and Krishna reciprocrates depending on thier

surrender).

 

The Queens of Dwaraka have more surrender then the Apostles.

 

Sorry I didn't provide any quotes, many devotees here have some for you.

 

 

I didn't mean it like it was a competition as to who is more surrendered between the queens and the apostles. I just was wondering did the queens feel that Krishna was still with them in spirit or were they just completely in a mood of complete despair of seperation. My Christian friend told me that after Jesus was resurrected that Jesus told his apostles he was still with them in their hearts and in spirit. Did the queens feel this same way? It seems like from what little I have read the queens were in terrible despair after Krishna left whereas the apostles faith was emboldened upon seeing the resurrection of Jesus and even though he left they were confident they would eventually be reunited with Him. Was this the same for the queens, did they know in their hearts they would eventually be reunited with Krishna?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

-

 

I guess the more your surrendered the more you feel seperation.

 

i.e a disicple is surrendered more then me, I won't see it as a compititon, i will be happy and humbled.

 

There is different gradations of devotees. (due to surrender). (not a compitition)

 

So there is a difference between the Apostles and The Queens of Dwaraka.

(But they are all devotees).

 

I think also that kind of understanding and realization is very deep (spiritual), it's

spiritual gradations of devotees. That's spiritual life, (forms etc). Spiritual Family.

[AncientMariner]

 

-

 

I guess the more your surrendered the more you feel seperation.

 

i.e a disicple is surrendered more then me, I won't see it as a compititon, i will be happy and humbled.

 

There is different gradations of devotees. (due to surrender). (not a compitition)

 

So there is a difference between the Apostles and The Queens of Dwaraka.

(But they are all devotees).

 

I think also that kind of understanding and realization is very deep (spiritual), it's

spiritual gradations of devotees. That's spiritual life, (forms etc). Spiritual Family.

 

 

That's a good realization you have. I know for myself I used to feel very lonely and in despair but once I realized that God is in our hearts (partially thanks to Prabhupada and partially thanks to Jesus)I don't feel as bad as despair or lonliness.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

[Kulapavana]

 

I wonder if there is any similarities and differences between the mood of seperation between the queens of Krishna and the apostles of Jesus.

 

I'm not sure there is a need to look for similarities. The mood of Krsna's queens in that episode of Lord's pastimes is beyond our ability to understand. We can only marvel at the depth of this leela... love, separation, anguish, pain - pure heartbreaking stuff... what a wonderous and tragic story...